Bow Build
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Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »
@Smepic
Well I assumed PVE, as you used PVE parses to show the DPS. I think people are getting bow builds to top out in the low 30's, but I dont play with anybody that runs one. They just arent even close to being on par with other ranged builds (mSorc or mNighblade). As for using trap, sure it would help DPS, but you are using a melee skill in a ranged build. Kind of defeats the purpose IMO.
Hedna did a bloodspawn of 37k bow-bow. That should be just over 40k I would think in an optimized trial.
The issue currently from what I understand is the advantages of Magicka dps towards AOE and survivability significantly outweigh bringing stamina.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
I'm glad you can pull it off, Here I am pulling 10k single target.
Then again I don't have any monster sets or Masters/Maelstrom bow. I've done my damndest to optimize my build for damage but no dice. I'm remembering why I left the game lol.
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Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
Hedna did a bloodspawn of 37k bow-bow. That should be just over 40k I would think in an optimized trial.
The issue currently from what I understand is the advantages of Magicka dps towards AOE and survivability significantly outweigh bringing stamina.
It also uses melee skills, that's a hyrbid not a ranged build. If I wanted to do a hybrid build I would just run DWEdited by masterbroodub17_ESO on January 31, 2017 2:22PM0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »
It also uses melee skills, that's a hyrbid not a ranged build. If I wanted to do a hybrid build I would just run DW
The only melee skill it uses is your execute. For majority of bosses you have to go melee anyway during execute. Also if you dont want to go melee after all just keep going through your ranged rotation.1 -
hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
The only melee skill it uses is your execute. For majority of bosses you have to go melee anyway during execute. Also if you dont want to go melee after all just keep going through your ranged rotation.
Well, the more important part is the specific gear requirement. I will record myself doing a vet dungeon one day, maybe there's more that I'm missing that I can't see.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »
Well, the more important part is the specific gear requirement. I will record myself doing a vet dungeon one day, maybe there's more that I'm missing that I can't see.
Without that gear you wont pull good numbers, same as with other builds.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
Hedna did a bloodspawn of 37k bow-bow. That should be just over 40k I would think in an optimized trial.
The issue currently from what I understand is the advantages of Magicka dps towards AOE and survivability significantly outweigh bringing stamina.
That's actually a little higher than I would expect, not that I dont trust it. It's been so long since I even contemplated a bow/bow build. I am sure you could clear darn near anything with it, but I dont think it will ever be advantageous over a magic build. They will still pull more DPS (I am guessing), certainly have more splash damage (which is important as stuff needs to die), and are almost certainly the bow build is going to have to be in melee range to place a trap and/or execute. Most modern trials have what I call spread mechanics. Having someone dip in and out of melee range seems like a great way to spread curses and get people killed haha.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
Without that gear you wont pull good numbers, same as with other builds.
What would you expect from someone running two crafted sets? (night mothers and hundigs) Just a rough estimate. I know that masters/maelstrom and monster sets make a big difference, but 20-30k dps difference?
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hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »
That's actually a little higher than I would expect, not that I dont trust it. It's been so long since I even contemplated a bow/bow build. I am sure you could clear darn near anything with it, but I dont think it will ever be advantageous over a magic build. They will still pull more DPS (I am guessing), certainly have more splash damage (which is important as stuff needs to die), and are almost certainly the bow build is going to have to be in melee range to place a trap and/or execute. Most modern trials have what I call spread mechanics. Having someone dip in and out of melee range seems like a great way to spread curses and get people killed haha.
There is only one aspect of the build that you need to be in melee for and thats Killer's blade. I suspect though that with the incoming changes to Hawk Eye you may either A) - not need to execute and just stay Bow, OR
Execute at a later time. On most bosses you should be coming in during the last 10% of their life for good heals. For vMol we have everyone ignore curses when we get to 10% or below and stack in melee, since he melts faster than you can die. 1 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »
What would you expect from someone running two crafted sets? (night mothers and hundigs) Just a rough estimate. I know that masters/maelstrom and monster sets make a big difference, but 20-30k dps difference?
I have no idea, but it would be a lot lower. I will be updating the build when the DLC drops to figure out what is best.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
There is only one aspect of the build that you need to be in melee for and thats Killer's blade. I suspect though that with the incoming changes to Hawk Eye you may either A) - not need to execute and just stay Bow, OR Execute at a later time. On most bosses you should be coming in during the last 10% of their life for good heals. For vMol we have everyone ignore curses when we get to 10% or below and stack in melee, since he melts faster than you can die.
10% is our threshold as well, although, frankly I usually Ignore anything below about 15% unless pillars are going to be an issue. Dont get me wrong, i would absolutely love Bow/Bow to be competitive. I just havent quite seen the results in a real life trial that is going to make me jump on the bandwagon just yet. Anytime I run with a random guy playing with a bow in 4 man stuff, I usually wind up pulling about 80% of group DPS. Haha0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »
10% is our threshold as well, although, frankly I usually Ignore anything below about 15% unless pillars are going to be an issue. Dont get me wrong, i would absolutely love Bow/Bow to be competitive. I just havent quite seen the results in a real life trial that is going to make me jump on the bandwagon just yet. Anytime I run with a random guy playing with a bow in 4 man stuff, I usually wind up pulling about 80% of group DPS. Haha
Oh i doubt anyone would use bow bow since survivability is much better on magicka.0 -
Overall I think the bottom line here is that even the best possible build for ranged stamina is still a FAR cry from any other type of build. I doubt this little buff will close that monumental gap by any noticeable margin.
I don't think the answer of "But look, you can kinda sorta almost do half-decent DPS *if* you have BiS gear!" is a real answer.
In fact I think spreading the idea of "Don't listen to the haters" is idiotic because you're encouraging players to be gimp. Let's be honest, the vast majority of the people asking these questions are not min/maxed players with sets coming out of their ears so telling someone they can do what is still considered half-decent at best DPS compared to other builds in the absolute best scenario is a bad idea.
I would suggest instead to start telling people that they can make a ranged stamina build work, but don't bother until you have the gear. OR in other words, don't play the way you want to until after you have an exact setup.
Ranged stamina is the only playstyle not viable within realistic expectations. There is no two ways around it.
Name another build type (Melee Stam/Mag, Ranged Mag) that has to have a specific setup to do over, let's say 20-25k DPSEdited by masterbroodub17_ESO on January 31, 2017 5:46PM0 -
SanderBuraas✭✭✭✭✭
@masterlouppub18_ESOmasterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »I would suggest instead to start telling people that they can make a ranged stamina build work, but don't bother until you have the gear. OR in other words, don't play the way you want to until after you have an exact setup.
Or rather, don't queue up for veteran dungeons if you're not prepared to do average or more DPS.1 -
@masterlouppub18_ESO
Or rather, don't queue up for veteran dungeons if you're not prepared to do average or more DPS.
Right, when any other build type would be able to do so with about half as good gear.
You're not going to do 50k DPS with solely a CP 160 crafted set or anything....but you would be able do at LEAST half that.
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Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
Oh i doubt anyone would use bow bow since survivability is much better on magicka.
Well not in competitive trials anyway. It would be nice for people to have the option in 4-man stuff as its an archetype a lot of people want to play. It was the first weapon I picked up in ESO. haha. Problem is that currently you are likely to be kicked from groupfinder with a bow/bow build, which is rather a shame. Glad you put that build together, I might actually give it a go. We always need to remember that most ESO players dont run in raids like ours.
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I find it interesting that they (probably unintentionally) made it a support weapon. Without any synergy/support from another ranged weapon it's just kinda silly to even have it.
The way it's used by melee builds doesn't require them to be at range to get the most out of it anyway.
It just boggles my mind that bows are the ONLY weapon with this problem, you can main literally any other weapon and it fits its role just fine. Ranged Stamina? Nah, not allowed, gotta close that gap if you don't want to suck.
In either case I plan to record a vet dungeon build and upload the info to see if someone can also give me some pointers on L2P issues. In the meantime I'll just continue to get carried I guess
Edited by masterbroodub17_ESO on January 31, 2017 11:43PM0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GreenhaloX wrote: »
Sorry to drag this out.. but, I have to call bullsht on this one! 40-50k is more than most ultimate. You're out of your freaking mind that a toon is able to do 40-50k or more on every hit, each hit, for every second (without cheating or manipulation.) Come on.. been at this game far too long of trying to piece many different armor, weapon and jewelry sets together (of what have been legitimately allowable within the confine of the game) for the best build, and running through countless dungeons and trials with so many different groups, to know better. Even if doing 40-50k as an average, someone would have to be striking 60k or 70k or more for certain strikes. There is no freaking way. Anyways, you can't even see the others' numbers or tell how much damages the others in the group are putting out, in consoles (unless there is way to see, but I haven't figure it out yet); except on those youtube clips where you can see the numbers coming out from the main toon. I'm sure there are many more things you're able to do in PC, whereas you cannot on consoles.
Been monitoring this forum for almost a year now and scanning through the countless youtube clips, to include the how-to and show-me guides by those seemingly ESO's Jedi-masters, and I have not once seen a legitimate account of anyone being able to dish out the damages that you are claiming. I cannot see how and what sets, abilities or combination of skills are legitimately allowing the numbers of what you claimed, especially with things seemingly always getting nerfed.. impossible!
Sorry guy but you have no clue as to what you are talking about. Its best if you exit the thread.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
In our guild, to get onto core you have to parse 40k+ consistantly in every boss in vMoL. Those numbers are a combination of skill, strategy and positioning. Those numbers also deoend on group DPS. The higher the group DPS is, the higher your personal DPS will be. 40s and 50s are more than doable, they are easy to achieve (well 40 is) if the fight is properly organized.
Your arguing with someone that fundamentally does not know or understand what damage per second means and how it is calculated in an mmorpg.
That person is literally saying 40k dps means that every second, you are hitting a target with a skill that deals 40k damage.
Dont continue the dispute.3 -
Horowonnoe✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »
Your arguing with someone that fundamentally does not know or understand what damage per second means and how it is calculated in an mmorpg.
That person is literally saying 40k dps means that every second, you are hitting a target with a skill that deals 40k damage.
Dont continue the dispute.
But... arguing is so exciting
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Templar Healer "False Eye"
Sorc Healer "Potema the Wolf Queen"
Warden Healer "Heavy Attacks Online"
Magicka Nightblade DPS "Nephaleth Telvanni"
Dragonknight Tank "Nico's Facsimile"
Builds & Guides:
Horow's Templar Healer Guide for Trials (Murkmire updated)
How to get Felms to jump correctly in vAS HM?
Horow's vMA Magicka Sorc Build for beginners and lazy farmers
Horow's Magicka Sorc Triple Pet Heavy Attack Build - Summerset Isles Ready
More builds at anthem-guild.com/pve/.
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- World's first 18 Axes vAA clear
- World's first 20+ enrage stack Llothis in vAS HM and World record cone damage1