Bow Build

SanderBuraas

I see a lot of prejudice towards bow builds, and how people cringe and dislike when players run them – at least poorly. Therefore, I decided to write a thread about my character, a Redguard Sorcerer by the name of Muyu (now Smepic). She was created in December 2014, when Stamina Sorcerers were actually uncommon.



Playing as an archer was fun and what I wanted to do. I headed to Cyrodiil when I was veteran rank two, despite the fact that you had to be rank fourteen in order to be competitive. Since I ran a bow build, I ganked for the most part – and still do – but Magicka Sorcerers and tanky Dragonknights were dominant at this time, so there was almost always a brawl after my intial Snipes.



As for my sets, I used Hunding's Rage and another random crafted set. They served me well, paired with Scatter Shot, Snipe, Poison Arrow and Streak. Even though I was a rookie, simply utilizing the build in Cyrodiil gained me experience. I eventually learned what every skill in the game did, how to counter abilities and builds, as well as when to block and roll dodge with a medium armour build. After a name change to Smepic and a lot of surgery, here she is now:



I mainly PvP, but I don't switch my gear for PvE. I use Marksman's Crest, Morag Tong and one piece of Molag Kena. Almost full purple and almost full Impenetrable. My poison of choice is Damage Health Poison IX. I currently have 447 CP.

My off-hand bar has a two handed weapon with the skills Shuffle, Dark Deal, Rearming Trap, Resolving Vigor, Rally and Reviving Barrier. It's just a buff bar, but it's very important.

My main bar, for PvP, has a bow with the skills Draining Shot, Lethal Arrow, Poison Injection, Streak, Camouflaged Hunter and Soul Assault. For PvE, I switch Draining Shot for Endless Hail, Streak for Acid Spray and Soul Assault for Toxic Barrage.



I got 22 833 DPS on Valaran Stormcaller. This was without Spell Power Cure and Aggressive Horn, as well as with PvP gear.



In this fight I got 26 044 DPS on Stormfist. Here I had 84% uptime on Minor Savagery, 77% uptime on Aggressive Horn, 33% uptime on Major Force, 28% uptime on Minor Berserk, no Spell Power Cure, and again – PvP gear.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Hawk Eye: Increased the amount of times this passive ability can stack to 5 times from 3 times. It continues to increase your damage with Bow abilities by 2/5% per stack.

The bow passive Hawk Eye is buffed in the next patch, which is just the more reason to play a bow build. If you want to be an archer, whether it is for PvE or PvP, go for it – just don't expect to be great straight away.

Cpt_Teemo

I like to use my bow on my vamp in dungeons since I tend to die quicker upfront

JimT722

I had a lot of fun in Cyrodiil with my stamina sorcerer archer. Having done most of the pve content in the game, I have wanted to continue playing that character as its the only character I PVP with. Unfortunately, I traded in my PS4 for the pro and ZOS still hasn't fixed their game on that system. Ran very similar gear, seems to work well.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I applaud the effort but 26k is not even close to competitive...

ColoursYouHave

Glad to see somebody taking a build that has been deemed "bad" and finding a way to make it work. Personally, I've got a PVP non-ganking Stamblade bow build I'm working on theorycrafting, and reading this has given me inspiration to keep working at making it a competitive build.

OrphanHelgen

You should have master bow and maelstrom bow. Also your crit are very low.

Mr_Nobody

Looks like one of my ex GFs.

lol ~

SanderBuraas

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I applaud the effort but 26k is not even close to competitive...

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Do you mean for veteran trials? I'm curious about how much DPS I could achieve if I used PvE sets, full Divines and actually used Rearming Trap.

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Glad to see somebody taking a build that has been deemed "bad" and finding a way to make it work. Personally, I've got a PVP non-ganking Stamblade bow build I'm working on theorycrafting, and reading this has given me inspiration to keep working at making it a competitive build.

@ColoursYouHave

Though I gank in Cyrodiil, I'm also dominant in duels. Sometimes, when I'm bored of easy kills, I just walk around and let someone gank me.

Just a few tips: crowd control and sustain is really important, always weave light attacks and don't be afraid to block and roll dodge.

Narvuntien

I run Bow on Stam Nightblade.
Shadow cloak allows me to always crit when I need to. So i am running the shadow stone.

Oh well I have divines instead of inpenetrable. Hopefully the changes to Proc sets next patch will stop me getting 1 shot. .... and I have to run a proc set myself. (atm Fire but I probably should use red mountain) perhaps I should actually be running both, and replace my spriggans set.

Viper is nice and all but melee only so it only works for my 2h bar... To proc Fire/RM I have to run critical charge over Ambush, but I just noticed perhaps I will want to use the 2h finishing move, forgot it's name.. edit: reverse slice.. and switch back to ambush.

VinyParsley2016

Never trust bow dps in vet dungeon, always kick them first.

KingYogi415

Bows are bis for dps. Just not double bows.

Keep your poison injection and volley up 100%

Most of your dps will come from duel wield.

2 hander = only pvp.

Cheers!

The_Protagonist

VinyParsley2016 wrote: »

Never trust bow dps in vet dungeon, always kick them first.

Better mention bow only, because bow and DW is what rocks for stam DPS.

Fudly_budly

gives me hope thanks

Ch4mpTW

I've said it many times, and don't mind saying it a few more. Lol. The "bow build" for PvE goes: Endless Hail and Poison Injection. If you're in PvP, the build goes: Poison Injection and Lethal Arrow. Preferably with sharpened Maelstrom's Bow, and sharpened Master's Bow for the later. M'kay? If you use any of other bow skills, there's a very strong change you won't have too much success. And will find much disappointment, and frustrated party members if in a group. Lol.

Toc de Malsvi

@Smepic
Shouldn't be taking Shadow over Thief if your crit is only at 49%.

Toxic Barrage is a powerful ult in and of itself, but it is a dps loss due to being a channel, if you don't want to swap to Ballista you should use Shooting Star over Toxic Barrage.

The logic behind this is that if you are doing 20k per second, you need to be doing significantly more than 20k per sec during the channel of Toxic barrage in order for it to any dps gain. At a 4.1 sec channel and 20k dps you need to do 80k just to break even, which is still a loss because you are using ultimate without actually increasing your dps.

Shooting Star at 4.5k per second and fire and forget, is a direct dps boost, not including the initial hit. It also hits multiple targets so it scales up significantly when you can use it on groups, as well as returning 12 ultimate per target hit. The negative of Shooting Star is obviously it doesn't scale with physical CP and the DOT wont move with targets but sits on the ground.

As a sorc you don't want to focus on Poison dmg, this works counter to your 5% passive boost to physical damage. At least not for PVE.

Your dps for a random is fine but it isn't very good when comparing to the 40k-50k that vet trial builds are shooting for, or the 37k that NOS' bow-bow build pulled on blood spawn. Standard stam builds on a target dummy solo, in the current meta are pulling 35k+ or so with VMA weapons and 31k+ or so with just Master weapons. That isn't to say that some have found ways to pull more in optimal scenario's.

(stam solo w/ vma)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti7h8X7oZvU
(stam solo w/ master)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lPuAx65-dE

Both VMA and Master bow's offer significant bonus' to bow dps. Maelstrom bow mainhand, Master bow off hand would be significant boosts, optimizing for PVE would be another improvement.

All that said, good to see you are sticking to your guns and finding a way to make your bow build work.

The_Protagonist

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I've said it many times, and don't mind saying it a few more. Lol. The "bow build" for PvE goes: Endless Hail and Poison Injection. If you're in PvP, the build goes: Poison Injection and Lethal Arrow. Preferably with sharpened Maelstrom's Bow, and sharpened Master's Bow for the later. M'kay? If you use any of other bow skills, there's a very strong change you won't have too much success. And will find much disappointment, and frustrated party members if in a group. Lol.

Completely agree, PvE bow is for Poison Injection for single target like boss and Toxic Barrage for multiple target AOE with Endless Hail for both Single and AOE, preferably using MSA Bow and MSA Dagger with MSA Axe, the other abilities are only good for Solo Role-Playing or some parts of PvP.

Toc de Malsvi

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I've said it many times, and don't mind saying it a few more. Lol. The "bow build" for PvE goes: Endless Hail and Poison Injection. If you're in PvP, the build goes: Poison Injection and Lethal Arrow. Preferably with sharpened Maelstrom's Bow, and sharpened Master's Bow for the later. M'kay? If you use any of other bow skills, there's a very strong change you won't have too much success. And will find much disappointment, and frustrated party members if in a group. Lol.

Sorta, but not really.

For PVE, it is about maintaining Endless Hail and Poison Injection but if you are trying to do a pure bow build you need to be weaving Focused Aim(unless fully penetrated target then Lethal Arrow.) Stallwart Guard for 100% uptime on Minor Force and Lightweight trap for another ranged DOT.

For PVP you don't need Poison Injection or Lethal Arrow, although they are both very powerful in support or for ganking. Personally I use Venom Arrow and I don't often slot any form of Snipe.

Also you don't want VMA bow in PVP, Volley morphs are lackluster in PVP and you will get much better burst with either a direct damage Disease enchant or a Weapondmg/crusher enchant. Probably the most important skill for bow PVP is Draining Shot, it does a huge amount of healing and is very significant towards setting up burst on targets that have closed on your position.

SanderBuraas

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

All that said, good to see you are sticking to your guns and finding a way to make your bow build work.

@Toc de Malsvi

The point of my thread is not "how much DPS I can deal with an optimal build". It shows that bow builds are viable – and that even with a PvP set-up, I am able to do all right DPS.

Ch4mpTW

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I've said it many times, and don't mind saying it a few more. Lol. The "bow build" for PvE goes: Endless Hail and Poison Injection. If you're in PvP, the build goes: Poison Injection and Lethal Arrow. Preferably with sharpened Maelstrom's Bow, and sharpened Master's Bow for the later. M'kay? If you use any of other bow skills, there's a very strong change you won't have too much success. And will find much disappointment, and frustrated party members if in a group. Lol.

Sorta, but not really.

For PVE, it is about maintaining Endless Hail and Poison Injection but if you are trying to do a pure bow build you need to be weaving Focused Aim(unless fully penetrated target then Lethal Arrow.) Stallwart Guard for 100% uptime on Minor Force and Lightweight trap for another ranged DOT.

For PVP you don't need Poison Injection or Lethal Arrow, although they are both very powerful in support or for ganking. Personally I use Venom Arrow and I don't often slot any form of Snipe.

Also you don't want VMA bow in PVP, Volley morphs are lackluster in PVP and you will get much better burst with either a direct damage Disease enchant or a Weapondmg/crusher enchant. Probably the most important skill for bow PVP is Draining Shot, it does a huge amount of healing and is very significant towards setting up burst on targets that have closed on your position.

I've never done a pure bow build, and after seeing people have horrible results attempting to do so — I think I'll politely pass on that concept. Also, I mentioned a Master Bow for PvP. Not Maelstrom. Although, I do know of a few PvP'ers who use a Maelstrom's Bow but with a poison in it. Therefore they can get the increased weapon damage, and forgo using the Volley skill.

hedna123b14_ESO

With the recent buffs to Bow/Bow its gonna be even more viable to use as an alternative to DW/Bow. Will it do as much damage? Absolutely not, but it will be closer to the mark. All of this would be very exciting, except no need for stamina in trials period...

Glurin

Smepic wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

All that said, good to see you are sticking to your guns and finding a way to make your bow build work.

@Toc de Malsvi

The point of my thread is not "how much DPS I can deal with an optimal build". It shows that bow builds are viable – and that even with a PvP set-up, I am able to do all right DPS.

You can't imagine how thrilled I am to hear someone else say that. Too many people get way too obsessed with being "competitive" instead of being viable. It's why it really rubs me the wrong way when people talk about instantly vote kicking anyone they see in a dungeon with either a bow or two handed weapon.

Rev Rielle

Glurin wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

All that said, good to see you are sticking to your guns and finding a way to make your bow build work.

@Toc de Malsvi

The point of my thread is not "how much DPS I can deal with an optimal build". It shows that bow builds are viable – and that even with a PvP set-up, I am able to do all right DPS.

You can't imagine how thrilled I am to hear someone else say that. Too many people get way too obsessed with being "competitive" instead of being viable. It's why it really rubs me the wrong way when people talk about instantly vote kicking anyone they see in a dungeon with either a bow or two handed weapon.

Completely agree; well done @Smepic

Someone thinks just a -little- outside the square and you can just see who the sad-sacks are above that can't help themselves but criticize them. I honestly feel a little sorry for these types of players, because they must not be very happy people if they feel the need to always put others down, for whatever reason.

It's nice to see people appreciate another's effort for what it is, rather than always being obsessed with what it isn't.

ArchMikem

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Toxic Barrage is a powerful ult in and of itself, but it is a dps loss due to being a channel, if you don't want to swap to Ballista you should use Shooting Star over Toxic Barrage.

I used to go with Toxic Barrage just cause of the increased poison damage, but Ballista is invaluable in PvP. It's saved my butt and turned the tables in fights several times now.

akl77

Bow attacks are slow and low damage, use it for your own enjoyment, don't bring it to vet dungeons, it's useless weak dps, waste of space. What's your rotations like, plz don't include light attacks with bow!

Egonieser

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I applaud the effort but 26k is not even close to competitive...

Exactly. Bow has the potential of great openers, especially from stealth and DoT's in between your regular rotation, like scorched earth/poison injection. But for prolonged fights, spin it or try it as you might, it's just not good compared to melee setups, many people great and weak have tried to make it work and it just won't work cuz I believe it was never designed for it except for the things I mentioned earlier.

It's a good support/opener weapon - that's all it is, and sorry but 20k'ish DPS is not considered good. Good enough for general PvE, but nothing serious like trials, VetHM dungeons or PvP against anyone with half a brain. Using bow as main hand is purposely gimping yourself.

Tabbycat

I remember having a lot of fun leveling with my bowSorc during closed beta. I also remember being really frustrated because I had to give up four slots on my two bars for the two pets.

SanderBuraas

Egonieser wrote: »

PvP against anyone with half a brain. Using bow as main hand is purposely gimping yourself.

@Egonieser

Yet I am successful in both Cyrodiil and duels.

SaRuZ

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Looks like one of my ex GFs.

lol ~

I was going to say the same thing lmao.

SaRuZ

I too, am fond of this bow you speak of.

kevlarto_ESO

If you have a build your having fun with and getting the results you like that's great, I do not play the meta either, I pvp a lot and when I play a month long campaign I am always in the top 2% getting my gold rewards which is fine with me, and I do that with out the meta, cheating, macros, proc sets, animation canceling, none of the crutches some people think you need to do well, my goal is to have fun and since I do not rely on the meta my game play to me is a bit more fulfilling since I did it myself.

There will be about as many opinions as what you should have as there a players in the game, do what works for you.

Enslaved

Narvuntien wrote: »

I run Bow on Stam Nightblade.
Shadow cloak allows me to always crit when I need to. So i am running the shadow stone.

Oh well I have divines instead of inpenetrable. Hopefully the changes to Proc sets next patch will stop me getting 1 shot. .... and I have to run a proc set myself. (atm Fire but I probably should use red mountain) perhaps I should actually be running both, and replace my spriggans set.

Viper is nice and all but melee only so it only works for my 2h bar... To proc Fire/RM I have to run critical charge over Ambush, but I just noticed perhaps I will want to use the 2h finishing move, forgot it's name.. edit: reverse slice.. and switch back to ambush.

Red Mountain is terrible choice for bow users. On my sDK, it would proc once in 10-15 fights, when I used just bow.
I feel this set was made for DW flurry users.