Why is ZOS obsessed with the color gray? A look at art direction in ESO

psychotrip

This is a discussion of the art-direction of The Elder Scrolls online. I doubt it will be of interest to most people, but perhaps a few like minded folks will enjoy this little analysis and debate.

It seems no matter where you go, no matter how colorful the environments are otherwise, the world is cluttered with drab, dark, gray buildings, landmarks, and a near-constant overcast of gray, hazy clouds. Now, this makes sense to an extent. Buildings are often made of stone and stone tends to be gray, but there comes a point where it just becomes dull and boring. To me, it shows a lack of creativity and artistic integrity when there are so many alternatives. This is definitely a problem in certain zones more than others. Hammerfall and Reaper's March, for example, are much more colorful and vibrant, but zones like Auridon are cluttered with dark, drab, gray-stone hovels, which flies in the face of everything we know about the altmer. Not only that, but it conflicts with the otherwise gorgeous and colorful landscapes of the zone.

Would anyone really expect an island that looks like this:



To have cities and weather that look like this?



I honestly don't know how people survive the High Rock zones. There's only so many same-y, gray, bland environments I can take before I log off. It would be one thing if they were moody and gloomy (like the concept art), as that would give them some actual personality, but what we got was the most generic, colorless, dull medieval landscape I've seen in years:









I honestly can't tell which screenshot is from which High Rock region. They're too similar.

And again, to those who think this is "realistic", let's set aside the silliness of applying realism to Nirn and take a look at the khajiit and redguards:





Clearly Zenimax is capable of making vibrant locations when they want to. I don't have a problem with the color gray per se. You can make beautiful environments without everything being colorful:



This is the blackwald from World of Warcraft. It's just as gray and colorless as the zones we see in ESO, but it has a real mood to it. There's an oppressive, haunting vibe to it that keeps it from being dull, not to mention there's plenty of color and diversity to be found just around the corner. Half the world isn't like this.

This is less an issue of disliking dark, "gritty" art styles and more a matter of tonal and artistic consistency. The amount of gray just doesn't fit the environment half the time, and there are clearly alternative colors and building materials to choose from.

But what really takes the cake for me is what they did with the ayleid ruins. This is what made me realize that this goes beyond trying to look "realistic" and that ZOS is really obsessed with the color gray.

Now, ignore the obvious differences in graphical quality and just focus on the color. This is what ayleid ruins looked like in Oblivion:



And this is what they look like in ESO:



We went from opulent, weathered white marble to dull gray stone. Again, the graphics are obviously better in the latter, but the basic idea couldn't be more different. This is beyond a color change. Are the ayleids using a completely new building material that will magically change into marble by the time of Oblivion? Even if the style in Oblivion was too bright, why go so far in a different direction?

So why does Zenimax insist on making half the world so dark, dull, and gray?

Rouven

Check something like this perhaps:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268131/esoptimize-fog-removal-and-graphic-improvement

psychotrip

Rouven wrote: »

Check something like this perhaps:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268131/esoptimize-fog-removal-and-graphic-improvement

Good find, but I'm more concerned about what ZOS themselves did. And the addon doesn't change the actual material or color of the buildings.

Publius_Scipio

I believe the devs have openly said that they try to keep the game rooted in that "realistic fantasy" plane. Obviously it's a fantasy game but it doesn't escape what forests, ruins, etc would look and feel like irl. The ES games maintain that medieval times look which is cool.

Auridon during the day is very colorful with the purple leaf trees and all that.

Totes-Bode

You know, some of the pics you took are rather nice. The one with the windmill, for example. It's very Skyrim. I agree with you for the most part, however. Especially on the Ayleid stone. It needs to be "weathered, opulent white marble" as you said, NOT cement gray.

The only thing I could say in defense of the dull surroundings in most of the towns is that it helps our character ability animations show up better. At the same time, it's a shame that so many of the mounts have EXTREME FLASH and certain armors have ambient graphical effects. So much of that constant flashing hurts my optic nerve, frankly. It gets to the point where simply being at a guild trader hub looks like interior Sanctum Ophidia. Because of that, I feel the atronach mounts and such really need to be toned down. I'd very much prefer flowers and foliage to be standing out with sharp color, than a non sequitur Electric Guar, leaping through a meadow.

Fishoscandi

I agree with you this game is pretty dark. Skyrim also seemed a bit dark to me. When DB was released I was hoping to walk the colorful Gold Coast once again.

Rouven

Mhh, yes. I personally don't really have an issue with it, but it doesn't seem to be a new development. Ever since Skyrim for sure my perception is kinda that the series is known for being a little drab?

Edit: Which is why those graphic mods were always popular showcases of what's possible.

Publius_Scipio

Rouven wrote: »

Mhh, yes. I personally don't really have an issue with it, but it doesn't seem to be a new development. Ever since Skyrim for sure my perception is kinda that the series is known for being a little drab?

Edit: Which is why those graphic mods were always popular showcases of what's possible.

Morrowind had a pretty damn dark color palette lol. The brightest thing in Morrowind was the lava.

Rouven

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

Mhh, yes. I personally don't really have an issue with it, but it doesn't seem to be a new development. Ever since Skyrim for sure my perception is kinda that the series is known for being a little drab?

Edit: Which is why those graphic mods were always popular showcases of what's possible.

Morrowind had a pretty damn dark color palette lol. The brightest thing in Morrowind was the lava.

It's been so long. You know sometimes I look at screenshots and I'm like "did it really look like that?".

I'm blessed with rose tinted glasses, hehe.

Fishoscandi

They are dark elfs after all!

RealLifeRedguard

Rouven wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

Mhh, yes. I personally don't really have an issue with it, but it doesn't seem to be a new development. Ever since Skyrim for sure my perception is kinda that the series is known for being a little drab?

Edit: Which is why those graphic mods were always popular showcases of what's possible.

Morrowind had a pretty damn dark color palette lol. The brightest thing in Morrowind was the lava.

It's been so long. You know sometimes I look at screenshots and I'm like "did it really look like that?".

I'm blessed with rose tinted glasses, hehe.

There's a difference between dark and dull though, as the OP said.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I believe the devs have openly said that they try to keep the game rooted in that "realistic fantasy" plane. Obviously it's a fantasy game but it doesn't escape what forests, ruins, etc would look and feel like irl. The ES games maintain that medieval times look which is cool.

Auridon during the day is very colorful with the purple leaf trees and all that.

I really don't think that argument holds water in a world where we can go to the moon, where giant robot gods break time, and where hermaphroditic demi gods walk the earth amidst giant ticks and crab-shelled-cities.

If you're looking for realism, The Elder Scrolls isn't the series for you, and this "realism" is not even consistent between all zones. If we're meant to interpret gray as an expression of realism, then what the heck happened in Grahtwood, Alik'r and Reaper's March? Why apply "realism" in a few zones but not others.

Totes-Bode wrote: »

You know, some of the pics you took are rather nice. The one with the windmill, for example. It's very Skyrim. I agree with you for the most part, however. Especially on the Ayleid stone. It needs to be "weathered, opulent white marble" as you said, NOT cement gray.

The only thing I could say in defense of the dull surroundings in most of the towns is that it helps our character ability animations show up better. At the same time, it's a shame that so many of the mounts have EXTREME FLASH and certain armors have ambient graphical effects. So much of that constant flashing hurts my optic nerve, frankly. It gets to the point where simply being at a guild trader hub looks like interior Sanctum Ophidia. Because of that, I feel the atronach mounts and such really need to be toned down. I'd very much prefer flowers and foliage to be standing out with sharp color, than a non sequitur Electric Guar, leaping through a meadow.

Yeah, a lot of those screen shots were nice in isolation. Less so when you've seen the exact same thing 3 and a half zones in a row.

Publius_Scipio

I don't know what else to tell you other than that is what the devs themselves have said. It's a fantasy game but they try to keep it grounded in realism. Hence no bright powder blue unicorns with six legs running around. There is magic obviously but they try to apply "what and how would magic work if it existed in the real world". That is why atronach pets look like rocks you would find in the real world held together by whatever the hell lightning magic would be in the real world.

If you get what I am trying to say lol.

psychotrip

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I believe the devs have openly said that they try to keep the game rooted in that "realistic fantasy" plane. Obviously it's a fantasy game but it doesn't escape what forests, ruins, etc would look and feel like irl. The ES games maintain that medieval times look which is cool.

Auridon during the day is very colorful with the purple leaf trees and all that.

That doesn't in any way explain the actual changes to previously established structures. Why make the ayleid ruins cement gray? Where did they get that idea from?

And Auridon itself is beautiful. The architecture is colorless and clashes with the landscape.

Publius_Scipio

psychotrip wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I believe the devs have openly said that they try to keep the game rooted in that "realistic fantasy" plane. Obviously it's a fantasy game but it doesn't escape what forests, ruins, etc would look and feel like irl. The ES games maintain that medieval times look which is cool.

Auridon during the day is very colorful with the purple leaf trees and all that.

That doesn't in any way explain the actual changes to previously established structures. Why make the ayleid ruins cement gray? Where did they get that idea from?

And Auridon itself is beautiful. The architecture is colorless and clashes with the landscape.

I am not employed in the ZOS art department.

psychotrip

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I believe the devs have openly said that they try to keep the game rooted in that "realistic fantasy" plane. Obviously it's a fantasy game but it doesn't escape what forests, ruins, etc would look and feel like irl. The ES games maintain that medieval times look which is cool.

Auridon during the day is very colorful with the purple leaf trees and all that.

That doesn't in any way explain the actual changes to previously established structures. Why make the ayleid ruins cement gray? Where did they get that idea from?

And Auridon itself is beautiful. The architecture is colorless and clashes with the landscape.

I am not employed in the ZOS art department.

No but we're having a discussion and you were explaining why things were the way they are. My response is that this explanation doesn't make sense.

Danikat

Early on they were going to make ESO look like World of Warcraft with cartoony, out of proportion buildings and people and overly bright graphics.

Then their alpha testers kept telling them it's not 2004 any more and the world has moved on, and Skyrim was a big success and they finally realised they should be making a TES game which is also an MMO, not a generic MMO with the TES name slapped onto it.

They may have gone too far the other way to try and distance themselves from what they were doing originally, but I'll take this over their original plan.

http://www.polygon.com/features/2016/10/14/13285014/elder-scrolls-online-one-tamriel-skyrim-mmo

BadLuckCharm

Different regions usually have differing availability of rock types, and the buildings in the area will - for the most part - show this. Very few could afford to have rock brought in from another region just to achieve a certain colour. Rather, the rocks buildings are made of would reflect what's regionally available. It definitely would be a nice touch to have certain zones have differing colours for their stone buildings.

RealLifeRedguard

Danikat wrote: »

Early on they were going to make ESO look like World of Warcraft with cartoony, out of proportion buildings and people and overly bright graphics.

Then their alpha testers kept telling them it's not 2004 any more and the world has moved on, and Skyrim was a big success and they finally realised they should be making a TES game which is also an MMO, not a generic MMO with the TES name slapped onto it.

They may have gone too far the other way to try and distance themselves from what they were doing originally, but I'll take this over their original plan.

http://www.polygon.com/features/2016/10/14/13285014/elder-scrolls-online-one-tamriel-skyrim-mmo

There has to be a better middle ground though, right? They went so far that they changed the look of things that were already established.

Rosveen

Read and weep for what will never be:

"A forbidden city for nearly fifty years, Alinor is both capital of the Summerset Isles and the heart of the Aldmeri Dominion. Human traders were only allowed at its ports, and they described the city as "made from glass or insect wings." Less fantastic accounts come from the Imperial emissaries of the Reman Dynasty, which describe the city as straight and glimmering, "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall."

Rouven

Rosveen wrote: »

Read and weep for what will never be:

"A forbidden city for nearly fifty years, Alinor is both capital of the Summerset Isles and the heart of the Aldmeri Dominion. Human traders were only allowed at its ports, and they described the city as "made from glass or insect wings." Less fantastic accounts come from the Imperial emissaries of the Reman Dynasty, which describe the city as straight and glimmering, "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall."

It was destroyed?

Rohamad_Ali

The grayscale under colors really brings out a layer of depth and helps trick the eye into seeing things with more texture then what is actually there . The one thing this game has a brilliant artists . Say what you want about mechanics or animations but the art team is the best team in eso . I have never been disappointed at the quality of the world architecture here , it is simply amazing to me .

czar

Eh, this is all personal taste rather than constructive critique, IMO. I'm happy with the palettes they chose, although I wouldn't mind if they made more contrasts with colourful flora and weather (dusk/dawn etc). It's certainly not a must have for me, though. I've never been a fan of saturated colours anyway. Maybe look into your screen settings to make it more to your liking?

RealLifeRedguard

Rouven wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Read and weep for what will never be:

"A forbidden city for nearly fifty years, Alinor is both capital of the Summerset Isles and the heart of the Aldmeri Dominion. Human traders were only allowed at its ports, and they described the city as "made from glass or insect wings." Less fantastic accounts come from the Imperial emissaries of the Reman Dynasty, which describe the city as straight and glimmering, "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall."

It was destroyed?

I think he's saying that, based on what we've seen from Summerset so far, it would seem that previous descriptions of the place are retconned.

Tandor

One of the main problem I see in the above screenshots is the short viewing distance. That's down to the settings, and the limitations of the user's computer, rather than the game design. I don't know whether the OP is playing on PC or console, but those screenshots don't represent what I see. What system and settings are we talking about here?

Rohamad_Ali

Tandor wrote: »

One of the main problem I see in the above screenshots is the short viewing distance. That's down to the settings, and the limitations of the user's computer, rather than the game design. I don't know whether the OP is playing on PC or console, but those screenshots don't represent what I see. What system and settings are we talking about here?

With the Aylied well comparisons the OP has missed a lot of wells that are marble white in the game . Cyrodiil has a few that look the same as Marrorwind , others are in various stages of decay around Tamriel .

Cadbury

schip wrote: »

Eh, this is all personal taste rather than constructive critique, IMO. I'm happy with the palettes they chose, although I wouldn't mind if they made more contrasts with colourful flora and weather (dusk/dawn etc). It's certainly not a must have for me, though. I've never been a fan of saturated colours anyway. Maybe look into your screen settings to make it more to your liking?

Agreed. I personally find the aesthetics overall to be very good. Mods/addons exist to push the eye candy even more if so desired.

Purely a subjective choice imho

MythicEmperor

We need Telvanni mushrooms. Make the rest of Tamriel pitch black for all I care, just do Vvardenfell right.

Rouven

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Read and weep for what will never be:

"A forbidden city for nearly fifty years, Alinor is both capital of the Summerset Isles and the heart of the Aldmeri Dominion. Human traders were only allowed at its ports, and they described the city as "made from glass or insect wings." Less fantastic accounts come from the Imperial emissaries of the Reman Dynasty, which describe the city as straight and glimmering, "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall."

It was destroyed?

I think he's saying that, based on what we've seen from Summerset so far, it would seem that previous descriptions of the place are retconned.

I see, thanks.

SanderBuraas

I previously wrote threads about the Cyrodiil landscape, the fact that ESO is too bland and how the fog is bad – yet people seem to defend Zenimax, saying that it looks realistic or is to prevent lag. Not a lot of work is required to give life to the art and graphics.

willlienellson

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I love the art direction of ESO.
It's honestly one of the few reasons I ignore the other problems with the game.

SanderBuraas

willlienellson wrote: »

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I love the art direction of ESO.
It's honestly one of the few reasons I ignore the other problems with the game.

@willlienellson

You can not deny that the game is filled with unnecessary fog and gray.