I know at one time there was one of the EU PC largest trade guilds which had its own guild master investing millions of their own money into it to keep the Craglorn trader.
It's not all easy money at the top.
OldGamerESO wrote: »But a free market economy should balance out right? Why would guilds bid so much that they lose money? If the traders operate at a loss propped up by charitable contributions then its not really economics. We are really just allowing ESO to have a huge gold sink for no reason. If all the guild traders cooperated then they could conspire to run the price back down to manageable and economically sound levels.
OldGamerESO wrote: »I know at one time there was one of the EU PC largest trade guilds which had its own guild master investing millions of their own money into it to keep the Craglorn trader.
It's not all easy money at the top.
But a free market economy should balance out right? Why would guilds bid so much that they lose money? If the traders operate at a loss propped up by charitable contributions then its not really economics. We are really just allowing ESO to have a huge gold sink for no reason. If all the guild traders cooperated then they could conspire to run the price back down to manageable and economically sound levels.
It is akin to when governments subsidize their industry. It appears they create a competitive advantage, but they really just cause inflation. In this case you have guild traders subsidizing their business through donations from guild leader or donations from guild. This in turn drives the price of the guild trader up with in turn cause inflation. Its hard to legitimately bid for a spot (or a job) if your competition is willing to take a loss to win the bid.
Tan9oSuccka wrote: »
If I want a specific armor piece, I must spend hours wading through garbage at 1,000 different locations.
Tan9oSuccka wrote: »
If I want a specific armor piece, I must spend hours wading through garbage at 1,000 different locations.
There are 171 Kiosks in the game. Half the locations have more than one, usually 4 to 6 Kiosks, if not more. So, its not even 3 figures for the locations. Probably closer to 50.
Tan9oSuccka wrote: »I don't understand the people defending this system.
If no one really makes money from running them, whats the point?
If I want a specific armor piece, I must spend hours wading through garbage at 1,000 different locations.
NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »I don't understand the people defending this system.
If no one really makes money from running them, whats the point?
If I want a specific armor piece, I must spend hours wading through garbage at 1,000 different locations.
@Tan9oSuccka
The point of systems in game economies is circulation and to prevent inflation
It's not to help people make more money by design. This game just actually works better than some others due to the design.
It's not defending anything, it's understanding the design and how economies work.
ITS also understanding that joining a trading guild is not inline with the design so if you or anyone chooses to join one and support their idea, hopefully now you realize it's not developer design, it's people trying to game the system which by default can damage or hurt a players experiences.
Tan9oSuccka wrote: »
If I want a specific armor piece, I must spend hours wading through garbage at 1,000 different locations.
There are 171 Kiosks in the game. Half the locations have more than one, usually 4 to 6 Kiosks, if not more. So, its not even 3 figures for the locations. Probably closer to 50.
The kiosks are distributed like this:
In each alliance:
2 in starter areas
7 in other areas, except the 2nd one: 2 in the wilderness or smaller settlement, 5 in the main settlement
9 in the 2nd zone: 2 in the wilderness, 7 in the main settlement, which is the alliance capital
For a total of 2+4x7+9=39 in each alliance
There are 3 alliances, so a total of 117 in alliance zones
Coldharbour has 2 spread out and 4 in the Hollow City, 6 in total
Craglorn has 7 in the same location, near Belkarth
Hew's Bane has a total of 5, all in the port area
Gold Coast has a total of 5, 2 on the Anvil Docks, 3 in Kvatch market
Wrothgar has 5, at the northern Orsinium gate
There is also a trader in each outlaw den, for a total of 18(?)
The total I calculated is 163. Where are the other 8 to 171? I must have forgotten something.
Tan9oSuccka wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »I don't understand the people defending this system.
If no one really makes money from running them, whats the point?
If I want a specific armor piece, I must spend hours wading through garbage at 1,000 different locations.
@Tan9oSuccka
The point of systems in game economies is circulation and to prevent inflation
It's not to help people make more money by design. This game just actually works better than some others due to the design.
It's not defending anything, it's understanding the design and how economies work.
ITS also understanding that joining a trading guild is not inline with the design so if you or anyone chooses to join one and support their idea, hopefully now you realize it's not developer design, it's people trying to game the system which by default can damage or hurt a players experiences.
From an overall developer perspective, I can understand that.
I want to know the benefit for someone running a guild if the profit is not there? E-peen?
It's not overly profitable for the guild as a whole. As a buyer its not enjoyable running around to the plethora of kiosks in different zones.
Tan9oSuccka wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »I don't understand the people defending this system.
If no one really makes money from running them, whats the point?
If I want a specific armor piece, I must spend hours wading through garbage at 1,000 different locations.
@Tan9oSuccka
The point of systems in game economies is circulation and to prevent inflation
It's not to help people make more money by design. This game just actually works better than some others due to the design.
It's not defending anything, it's understanding the design and how economies work.
ITS also understanding that joining a trading guild is not inline with the design so if you or anyone chooses to join one and support their idea, hopefully now you realize it's not developer design, it's people trying to game the system which by default can damage or hurt a players experiences.
From an overall developer perspective, I can understand that.
I want to know the benefit for someone running a guild if the profit is not there? E-peen?
It's not overly profitable for the guild as a whole. As a buyer its not enjoyable running around to the plethora of kiosks in different zones.
Running a successful trading guild is both challenging and rewarding, imo. Wouldn't do it if there was no enjoyment in it.
OldGamerESO wrote: »This is one thread I wish I could post anonymously LOL...
I am not trying to be ungrateful for being in great trading guilds, but I am trying to understand the economics behind the guild trading locations. When I see a guild bank with 36 million gold and I see that they get a cut of every sale I assume they are economically sound. Why then the e-mails berating the guild members for not buying raffle tickets? Or donating goods for raffle tickets. I really want to understand how this works. Is running a trading guild inherently profitable or is it always operating at a loss? I have been in many trading guilds and most of them operate this way. The people running them act like they are doing you a favor to provide the trader and raise money to pay for it. And they claim how hard it is and how much of their free time they sacrifice for us. Is that all for real? If it is, then I am truly appreciative. But that also means the whole, system is broken badly. Maybe they need a way to adjust the guild cut so they can raise it until they can pay for the spot. When I join a trading guild they usually have rules: sell X amount a week, don't sell items worth less than Y, keep your items full, etc. I "feel" that meeting that criteria should be sufficient to participate and for everyone to be making money. Maybe the trading guild needs to increase their selling requirements? I sell about 50k-100k per trader per week. Maybe that is way too low and I need to be replaced with 1m/week players to keep the traders viable?
Tan9oSuccka wrote: »I don't understand the people defending this system.
If no one really makes money from running them, whats the point?
If I want a specific armor piece, I must spend hours wading through garbage at 1,000 different locations.
Tan9oSuccka wrote: »
If I want a specific armor piece, I must spend hours wading through garbage at 1,000 different locations.
There are 171 Kiosks in the game. Half the locations have more than one, usually 4 to 6 Kiosks, if not more. So, its not even 3 figures for the locations. Probably closer to 50.
Technically correct. But are you any more likely to browse 171 kiosks than you are to browse 1000?
Everything I have bought from a guild store has been from guilds where I am a member, and can download and search the item listing.
Tan9oSuccka wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »I don't understand the people defending this system.
If no one really makes money from running them, whats the point?
If I want a specific armor piece, I must spend hours wading through garbage at 1,000 different locations.
@Tan9oSuccka
The point of systems in game economies is circulation and to prevent inflation
It's not to help people make more money by design. This game just actually works better than some others due to the design.
It's not defending anything, it's understanding the design and how economies work.
ITS also understanding that joining a trading guild is not inline with the design so if you or anyone chooses to join one and support their idea, hopefully now you realize it's not developer design, it's people trying to game the system which by default can damage or hurt a players experiences.
From an overall developer perspective, I can understand that.
I want to know the benefit for someone running a guild if the profit is not there? E-peen?
It's not overly profitable for the guild as a whole. As a buyer its not enjoyable running around to the plethora of kiosks in different zones.
OldGamerESO wrote: »I know at one time there was one of the EU PC largest trade guilds which had its own guild master investing millions of their own money into it to keep the Craglorn trader.
It's not all easy money at the top.
But a free market economy should balance out right? Why would guilds bid so much that they lose money? If the traders operate at a loss propped up by charitable contributions then its not really economics. We are really just allowing ESO to have a huge gold sink for no reason. If all the guild traders cooperated then they could conspire to run the price back down to manageable and economically sound levels.
It is akin to when governments subsidize their industry. It appears they create a competitive advantage, but they really just cause inflation. In this case you have guild traders subsidizing their business through donations from guild leader or donations from guild. This in turn drives the price of the guild trader up with in turn cause inflation. Its hard to legitimately bid for a spot (or a job) if your competition is willing to take a loss to win the bid.
There's a very good reason to have that gold sink. Gold appears out of no where through quest and drops from mobs. That gold needs to leave to prevent depreciation of gold.
Tan9oSuccka wrote: »I don't understand the people defending this system.
If no one really makes money from running them, whats the point?
If I want a specific armor piece, I must spend hours wading through garbage at 1,000 different locations.