nMA should give you green/blue weapons at the end

Arthg

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Let's be careful what we call skill people vMA is learning the spawn ports and what enemy's to kill off first. There is a reason it becomes easy after ur first clear it's bc you know what to expect and the mechanics of each stage. I would call that knowledge not skill.

It's been awhile that this arena has been out I think a slight nerf to the mobs is needed to help out the others 98% of the people that have not cleared it. Before you jump down my throat here they will still need to farm it a million times and it can still be hard just lower the one hit mechanics damage a litttle and lower the hp on mobs.

I understand that you worked really hard for these BIS weps but this game has a history now when new content comes out it's really hard then when everyone got what they needed and worked hard for it they nerfed it, look at vet rank zones IC sewer mobs WGT and ICP.

I fail to see the logic there.
You agree that nerfing hard content is not desirable (cf. vet ranks and IC sewers), yet call for nerfing vMA?

Let's just keep hard content and its hard-earned rewards hard.

Surak73

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

We should get a weapon

A weapon? Why not? A rubedite axe of frost or a rubedite inferno staff of disease would be appropriate.

FloppyTouch

Arthg wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Let's be careful what we call skill people vMA is learning the spawn ports and what enemy's to kill off first. There is a reason it becomes easy after ur first clear it's bc you know what to expect and the mechanics of each stage. I would call that knowledge not skill.

It's been awhile that this arena has been out I think a slight nerf to the mobs is needed to help out the others 98% of the people that have not cleared it. Before you jump down my throat here they will still need to farm it a million times and it can still be hard just lower the one hit mechanics damage a litttle and lower the hp on mobs.

I understand that you worked really hard for these BIS weps but this game has a history now when new content comes out it's really hard then when everyone got what they needed and worked hard for it they nerfed it, look at vet rank zones IC sewer mobs WGT and ICP.

I fail to see the logic there.
You agree that nerfing hard content is not desirable (cf. vet ranks and IC sewers), yet call for nerfing vMA?

Let's just keep hard content and its hard-earned rewards hard.

Where did I agree that nerfing hard content is not desirable? After it's been out for a long long time it's time to help out the other player base to catch up. It's very desirable for the player base and that is the casuals not the elite 1%

Look at pvp they increased the AP earned for keeps and resources to help in ranks so new player are not playing for years to get 5 star rank it's just the way the game goes.

If you already did it and farmed it the MA weps pvp ranks or end game gear years ago then why not let the casuals have a shot at it? Bc it hurts ur ego? MMORPG stay alive when they keep there player base and bring in new people that can catch up. If it is going to take years to have the same stuff as others players that had this stuff for years why play this game at all if average joe does not stand a chance coming in fresh.

Trust me I understand where you come from and no nMA should never drop weps that's just horrible but maybe meet in the middle would be good. The peopl in the forums are all so one sided and can't see things in the middle and what's best for the game not just you.

Surak73

FloppyTouch wrote: »

MMORPG stay alive when they keep there player base and bring in new people that can catch up. If it is going to take years to have the same stuff as others players that had this stuff for years why play this game at all if average joe does not stand a chance coming in fresh.

"Guild rule: if you can't run, you can't keep up. Those who can't keep up get left behind!" (quote by Warder Calithil, Vulkhel Guard fighters guild)

mb10

Zos delete this bs of a thread

Meld777

OP's assumption: People run vMA to get (usable) vMA weapons.

Reality: When you farm vMA for weapons, at some point, vMA will take the same time as nMA (30 min) and you will still not have your weapon.

"But there are mediocre players with vMA weapons": They got them before Dark Brotherhood when Sharpened and Precise were handed out like candy. Now getting usable vMA weapons is not realistic. You're looking at 1000+ runs... and might still not get what you're looking for, like me. Almost 30 Sharpened Daggers, but not a single Sharpened or Precise Inferno.

Arthg

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Arthg wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Let's be careful what we call skill people vMA is learning the spawn ports and what enemy's to kill off first. There is a reason it becomes easy after ur first clear it's bc you know what to expect and the mechanics of each stage. I would call that knowledge not skill.

It's been awhile that this arena has been out I think a slight nerf to the mobs is needed to help out the others 98% of the people that have not cleared it. Before you jump down my throat here they will still need to farm it a million times and it can still be hard just lower the one hit mechanics damage a litttle and lower the hp on mobs.

I understand that you worked really hard for these BIS weps but this game has a history now when new content comes out it's really hard then when everyone got what they needed and worked hard for it they nerfed it, look at vet rank zones IC sewer mobs WGT and ICP.

I fail to see the logic there.
You agree that nerfing hard content is not desirable (cf. vet ranks and IC sewers), yet call for nerfing vMA?

Let's just keep hard content and its hard-earned rewards hard.

Where did I agree that nerfing hard content is not desirable?

In your previous quote you said: "I understand that you worked really hard for these BIS weps but this game has a history now when new content comes out it's really hard then when everyone got what they needed and worked hard for it they nerfed it, look at vet rank zones IC sewer mobs WGT and ICP", which I understood as an implicit acknowledgment ("it's really hard", i.e. "unfair") that nerfing IC and vet rank zones was not the proper way to go (rereading your words, I keep interpreting them that way).

I strongly disagree with your suggestions.
Nerfing content to please "casuals" (by the way: I *am* casual) or new players is an insult, well, to everybody: to those who worked for the reward, for the "casuals" who you deem unable to make an effort and complete hard content, and to new players who would never see themselves, and enjoy the pleasures of, improving, gitting gud and l2p like the rest of us did.

kylewwefan

Yes. I think they should too. Blue not green though. With same RNG for traits as everything else. Same with monster sets.

FloppyTouch

Arthg wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Arthg wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Let's be careful what we call skill people vMA is learning the spawn ports and what enemy's to kill off first. There is a reason it becomes easy after ur first clear it's bc you know what to expect and the mechanics of each stage. I would call that knowledge not skill.

It's been awhile that this arena has been out I think a slight nerf to the mobs is needed to help out the others 98% of the people that have not cleared it. Before you jump down my throat here they will still need to farm it a million times and it can still be hard just lower the one hit mechanics damage a litttle and lower the hp on mobs.

I understand that you worked really hard for these BIS weps but this game has a history now when new content comes out it's really hard then when everyone got what they needed and worked hard for it they nerfed it, look at vet rank zones IC sewer mobs WGT and ICP.

I fail to see the logic there.
You agree that nerfing hard content is not desirable (cf. vet ranks and IC sewers), yet call for nerfing vMA?

Let's just keep hard content and its hard-earned rewards hard.

Where did I agree that nerfing hard content is not desirable?

In your previous quote you said: "I understand that you worked really hard for these BIS weps but this game has a history now when new content comes out it's really hard then when everyone got what they needed and worked hard for it they nerfed it, look at vet rank zones IC sewer mobs WGT and ICP", which I understood as an implicit acknowledgment ("it's really hard", i.e. "unfair") that nerfing IC and vet rank zones was not the proper way to go (rereading your words, I keep interpreting them that way).

I strongly disagree with your suggestions.
Nerfing content to please "casuals" (by the way: I *am* casual) or new players is an insult, well, to everybody: to those who worked for the reward, for the "casuals" who you deem unable to make an effort and complete hard content, and to new players who would never see themselves, and enjoy the pleasures of, improving, gitting gud and l2p like the rest of us did.

You missed understand what I'm meaning please read this again. Please don't insinuate ur own idea on what I'm saying or something means something else

Iselin

Weapons can't be upgraded to legendary through crafting can they?

heyjrey

I personally don't think nMA should have weapons at the end, regardless of color. If that were the case, people would farm nMA and just get green or blue weapons and just improve them which would be too easy.

And this is coming from someone who is still in the process of beating vMA (damn ice round). Doing nMA is just waaaay too easy and I think that if you want a maelstrom weapon, you should just do it the way everyone else has/had to do it.

Asardes

That could be abused to get good weapons very fast, since the trait pool would be the same. It demeans the effort and skill needed to run veteran. That's why only veteran dungeons now reward a monster head. Otherwise everyone would be running normal for quick farming, just like it now happens when running dungeons and trials for 5 piece sets.

MrBrandon

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

I'm just saying nMA should give us something at the end, and not some crappy title. We should get a weapon with an increase rate of Training and Prosperous (50 to 60%) trait for fairness.

Someone can't complete vma.

DPShiro

HAHA HA HA!!!

Oh you are not kidding...???




NO.


There is 0% effort/skill involved doing nMA, I used to level alts there right after character creation and snooze through it flawless.

MythicEmperor

Maybe if it had an insanely high chance of a crappy trait

Woeler

Low effort = low reward

Dubhliam

My DK did a test earlier with :
a legendary Precise Maelstrom Fire staff
3 epic Willpower jewelry with Spell damage enchants
5 legendary Twice Born Star all divines
1 legendary Molag Kena divines
1 legendary Grothdarr divines

Inner Light was passively giving me max magicka.
Popped the Spell Power potion for Major Sorcery and Major Prophecy
A simple rotation for testing was: whip > Blocade of fire > whip > Engulfing Flames > whip > Burning Embers [repeat 3x]

DPS counter after 28 seconds: just below 10k

Now then, why didn't my DPS jump to over 45k levels as seen in all those youtube videos you see around?

I had no enchantments on the TBS gear, and I didn't have max magicka food.
I didn't use more than those 4 skills.
I didn't weave (cast light attacks in between every skill).
I didn't animation cancel, not even accidentally by weapon swapping since I was always on one bar.

You see... if you don't know how to DD, or don't understand how damage in this game is calculated, there is no weapon or piece of armor that will help you get better.

Getting Good in vMA will!

idk

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

No, it really shouldn't

Yes it should.

Definitely, definitely shouldn't

Definitely, definitely, and definitely should

Absolutely should not.

Actually, weapons should drop in last chest if nMA. Weapons matching the other sets that drop in nMA but not actual vMA weapons.

BuddyAces

I am actually surprised they don't drop on normal yet! Think of all the orsinium dlc they would sell because the weapons would be easier to get ;-)

greylox

No.

kylewwefan

Asardes wrote: »

That could be abused to get good weapons very fast, since the trait pool would be the same. It demeans the effort and skill needed to run veteran. That's why only veteran dungeons now reward a monster head. Otherwise everyone would be running normal for quick farming, just like it now happens when running dungeons and trials for 5 piece sets.

That's exactly the point. Play it in normal to get close to the gear you want. Play Vet to get slightly better purple stuff. No ones complaining about people farming CoA for BSW staff just farming chest. Cough exploit

You know how easy it is to farm fungal 1 for kraghs and Viper 5~6 minute runs.

You can burn through WGT normal now in 15 minutes for SPC. I used to hate that dungeon, now I teach people how to do it.

Most people take awhile to get through maelstrom. Even when you get good it still takes 30~45 minutes just to run the content.

OrphanHelgen

SickDuck wrote: »

modaretto wrote: »

SickDuck wrote: »

No please.

On the other hand please nerf vma weapons so they are not mandatory for end game.

They are not. Not at all. But they are a good excuse if people can't pull dps in general. You can get better results on builds without vma weapons as it is. It does require a bit of theorycrafting of your own though and making a build that suits your play style.

Maybe true for magicka builds but for stamina the difference is huge.

@SickDuck

Stam DK Bloodspawn tests. Major fracture, spellpower cure, combat prayer, 1 warhorn:

With maelstrom weapons: FTC] Blood Spawn - 1:08 - 3,002,810 Damage (43,846.24 DPS)
Without maelstrom weapons: [FTC] Blood Spawn - 1:02 - 2,987,512 Damage (48,352.57 DPS)

Played stam dk for 2,5 years and are a huge fan of theorycrafting. I never use exploit. This is pure l2p, and proves that Modaretto's comment are correct.
Wont tell my build since its purely self designed and I spend alot of time on it. Dont want it to get nerfed, allthough stamina in general nerfed to the ground already.


Edit: Adding some other parses without maelstrom dagger / axe:

FTC] Blood Spawn - 0:37 - 2,535,987 Damage (68,871.52 DPS) - fully buffed

Rakkhat (3:55.3s) - Total DPS (+2): 54,031 (12,712,581 Damage), DPS: 47,514 (11,179,006 Damage) - none hardmode

Ra Kotu (2:04.6s) - Total DPS (+3): 60,903 (7,591,030 Damage), DPS: 56,193 (7,003,838 Damage) - first boss helra

Zhaj'hassa the Forgotten (3:20.9s) - Total DPS (+14): 56,210 (11,292,177 Damage), DPS: 46,169 (9,273,613 Damage) - no caltrops

GawdSB

J2JMC wrote: »

The obsession from players to lock gear behind content difficulty is interesting. I get why developers want it. Makes them more money and extends the game life-no brainer. But from a competitive gamer standpoint it seems odd. I mean does it really feel good to think you're better than a player because of the gear you have that gives you a mathematically easier time to complete content? Mind you OP did not say make vMA easier. He simply asked for ZOS to open up gearing options to a variety of players.

Someone else having a title or special weapon doesn't take away from a person's accomplishments. I guess some online gamer's egos are so large and fragile that they need status symbols to feel better about themselves. Honestly I say let them have the weapons. If I lose a leaderboard spot to someone who initially couldn't beat vMA, or get smashed in pvp by that person, it simply means I was getting carried by gear.

For those who use game life or positive reinforcement as a defense for locking gear behind content/levels this post is not aimed at you. I personally think it's a *** defense and hope a greater mind than mine can figure out ways to extend game life beyond loot hunting but for now it's the best we have in an mmo and when done right is a fun design. However, for those saying people shouldn't be allowed to have mathematically superior weapons because they're not "good enough" or "didn't put the time in" get over yourselves lol. I got a sharpened dagger(maybe axe have to check) around my fifth time completing it 2 months after wrothgar release while players who are much better than me in my guild are still looking for one to this day.

Has nothing to do with ego, it has everything to do with actually trying and putting effort into getting the best gear in the game that you want. I'm not a great player at all, I don't take ESO really that serious (which is probably why I can't find a trials guild) but after trying VMA at least a couple times a month for like 2 months I finally beat it. It's because I died and learned the mechanics from it. Now it's a lot easier and I can beat it within an hour.

Stop trying to give players the best gear for being lazy and not actually putting effort into anything expecting handouts.

cpuScientist

It should give a weapon of the sets in there. Not a VMA weapons. But that should be how you get your winterborn ice staff and the like...

BuddyAces

I don't run VMA and this is why and no it isn't a L2P issue!!! I don't have the time! Hmm would I rather spend my little time I have playing with friends or in a solo arena disgruntled to get a powered sword instead of the sharpened infernal staff I want? Yeah no! As for it dropping on normal? I could care less! I get the feeling of man I worked so hard for this and that (many runs in vet wGt for SPC) and now it's easy to acquire. But I got over it and ran a few quick runs in normal to get my divines gloves I never got on vet!! Yeah and these people complaining that they don't want weapons on normal I am sure you would start running normal if it dropped weapons! Here's something to consider there are some people that can't do VMA (age, health reasons,exc) you really feel like they should never get the weapons? If they had a choice to run normal with a crappy drop rate, why not?

Ch4mpTW

Hm... Another 1 of these threads I see. Welp! I strong am against this idea, simply because of how strong Maelstrom Weapons are (compared to how little effort is applied to completing something so easy and remedial). Why you're asking for is high reward, for little to no effort and work. And while I too like "freebies" and all that jazz, but no. Not for something like Maelstrom Weapons. Just no.

idk

Back when we were v14 nDSA had a chance to drop v13 master weapons and they were actually useful. CP150 weapons would be garbage due to the extra spell damage given to gold CP160 weapons.

Further that both nDSA and nMA are extremely easy in comparison to the difficulty of the nDSA vs vDSA back when we were v14 it would be an extremely bad idea to provide vMA weapon in normal regardless and the quality level is meaningless since it's easy to upgrade quality.

In other words, nMA will never drop the special weapons

Arthg

BuddyAces wrote: »

I don't run VMA and this is why and no it isn't a L2P issue!!! I don't have the time! Hmm would I rather spend my little time I have playing with friends or in a solo arena disgruntled to get a powered sword instead of the sharpened infernal staff I want? Yeah no! As for it dropping on normal? I could care less! I get the feeling of man I worked so hard for this and that (many runs in vet wGt for SPC) and now it's easy to acquire. But I got over it and ran a few quick runs in normal to get my divines gloves I never got on vet!! Yeah and these people complaining that they don't want weapons on normal I am sure you would start running normal if it dropped weapons! Here's something to consider there are some people that can't do VMA (age, health reasons,exc) you really feel like they should never get the weapons? If they had a choice to run normal with a crappy drop rate, why not?

Then it's your choice not to get the weapons.
You could choose to learn each round at your own rhythm.
You decide not to make the effort, not to sacrifice *some* of your gaming time - on account of what exactly should you get the weapons?

Autolycus

No, it really shouldn't. Normal Maelstrom is easier than Harborage quests. No game should ever give BiS endgame weapons for a tutorial.

BuddyAces

Arthg wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

I don't run VMA and this is why and no it isn't a L2P issue!!! I don't have the time! Hmm would I rather spend my little time I have

Then it's your choice not to get the weapons.
You could choose to learn each round at your own rhythm.
You decide not to make the effort, not to sacrifice *some* of your gaming time - on account of what exactly should you get the weapons?

Arthg wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

I don't run VMA and this is why and no it isn't a L2P issue!!! I don't have the time! Hmm would I rather spend my little time I have playing with friends or in a solo arena disgruntled to get a powered sword instead of the sharpened infernal staff I want? Yeah no! As for it dropping on normal? I could care less! I get the feeling of man I worked so hard for this and that (many runs in vet wGt for SPC) and now it's easy to acquire. But I got over it and ran a few quick runs in normal to get my divines gloves I never got on vet!! Yeah and these people complaining that they don't want weapons on normal I am sure you would start running normal if it dropped weapons! Here's something to consider there are some people that can't do VMA (age, health reasons,exc) you really feel like they should never get the weapons? If they had a choice to run normal with a crappy drop rate, why not?

Then it's your choice not to get the weapons.
You could choose to learn each round at your own rhythm.
You decide not to make the effort, not to sacrifice *some* of your gaming time - on account of what exactly should you get the weapons?

Yes I choose not to do it and I am fine not getting the weapons because of that. I wasn't saying I want weapon drops on normal because I want it personally. I just don't care whether they drop on normal or not and that I feel bad for people that would love to complete it but can't for reasons other then L2P!