ZOS, please explain reason for DK wings nerf

Minalan

Armitas wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Msorc is going to be the new meta,

-Curse will explode twice now
-still unblockable
-EOtS is still OP
-Force pulse now unreflectable
-Lightning staff goes through reflect and with the 8% AoE it will probably be meta
-Mines still deal high dmg AND root you
- Storm Atro got 25% buff in dmg
- Pets got resistance buffs( pretty tanky now)
- flame staff got 8% single target buff

Rip DK be it Magicka or Stamina. -___-

Somehow the long anticipated "buff Dk" update turned out to be a "buff sorc" update. It almost makes the pre-nerf DK threads that came out before PTS seem silly and ridiculous. And by almost I mean completely and absolutely.

Never mind that magicka nightblades do better with destro staves AND EoTS. They got like one cheap skill cost increased to around force pulse, and it's the end of the world.

Anyone using pets in open world PVP is still going to be sorely disappointed.

Some_Guy

Typhoios wrote: »

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

So DKs can't faceroll sorcs not using a lightning staff anymore. Your main strat of dotting, rooting, hard knocking and whipping to death remains unchanged AND buffed with faster projectiles and stronger whip. You can now also close gap with no problem now!

DKs got ALOT of tools with this patch and I find it hard to believe they're still complaining for an ability anyone can use (force pulse) not only sorcs. And sorcs are happy cause curse remained basically the same in PVP with just an extra blow 5 seconds later? And that makes Sorc OP now?

I think it is the totality of the problems with wings. They reflect nearly nothing anymore. Hell, half the time they fail to reflect the things they are supposed to reflect. If they want to remove wings from the game, do so, but please don't leave us with a useless skill.

"Please don't leave us with a useless skill." They wouldn't do that. That would be like giving us a heal that hits a random target once ever 5 seconds for 15 seconds. A nice slow heal that doesn't even choose it's targets "intelligently".

thankyourat

Maybe zos think that chains will be a useable gap closer now.

Sugaroverdose

thankyourat wrote: »

Maybe zos think that chains will be a useable gap closer now.

Too bad i already have no place for them, as well as for new OP volatile armor, at least i no more need to consider what's better to run: shooting star or standard of might

pjwb16_ESO

Simply remove it and give us something useful. It got nerved to the ground, is absolutely useless and isn't slotted by the majority of Dks anymore

arkansas_ESO

Minalan wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Msorc is going to be the new meta,

-Curse will explode twice now
-still unblockable
-EOtS is still OP
-Force pulse now unreflectable
-Lightning staff goes through reflect and with the 8% AoE it will probably be meta
-Mines still deal high dmg AND root you
- Storm Atro got 25% buff in dmg
- Pets got resistance buffs( pretty tanky now)
- flame staff got 8% single target buff

Rip DK be it Magicka or Stamina. -___-

Somehow the long anticipated "buff Dk" update turned out to be a "buff sorc" update. It almost makes the pre-nerf DK threads that came out before PTS seem silly and ridiculous. And by almost I mean completely and absolutely.

Never mind that magicka nightblades do better with destro staves AND EoTS. They got like one cheap skill cost increased to around force pulse, and it's the end of the world.

Anyone using pets in open world PVP is still going to be sorely disappointed.

@Minalan Wait, what? How do mNBs do better with destro staves and EOTS?

Carbonised

Some_Guy wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

So DKs can't faceroll sorcs not using a lightning staff anymore. Your main strat of dotting, rooting, hard knocking and whipping to death remains unchanged AND buffed with faster projectiles and stronger whip. You can now also close gap with no problem now!

DKs got ALOT of tools with this patch and I find it hard to believe they're still complaining for an ability anyone can use (force pulse) not only sorcs. And sorcs are happy cause curse remained basically the same in PVP with just an extra blow 5 seconds later? And that makes Sorc OP now?

I think it is the totality of the problems with wings. They reflect nearly nothing anymore. Hell, half the time they fail to reflect the things they are supposed to reflect. If they want to remove wings from the game, do so, but please don't leave us with a useless skill.

"Please don't leave us with a useless skill." They wouldn't do that. That would be like giving us a heal that hits a random target once ever 5 seconds for 15 seconds. A nice slow heal that doesn't even choose it's targets "intelligently".

This made me laugh out loud at first.

Then I cried a bit.

And @Armitas hit the nail on the head - the update that was supposed to be a 'buff mDK' instead got twisted into a 'buff mSorc'.

mDKs even had to swallow a nerf to wings, to banner and to dragonblod, and no amount of 'overwhelming response' seems to make any difference here.

Derra

Hopefully they give bow one attack that can not be reflected either.

On top of that i think reflect should have it´s projectile cap removed.
The duration should be set to 3s with cost reduced by 25%
One morph should reflect with increased dmg.
The other morph should deflect/absorb and remove/prevent snares and roots for it´s duration.

Armitas

Derra wrote: »

Hopefully they give bow one attack that can not be reflected either.

On top of that i think reflect should have it´s projectile cap removed.
The duration should be set to 3s with cost reduced by 25%
One morph should reflect with increased dmg.
The other morph should deflect/absorb and remove/prevent snares and roots for it´s duration.

With the duration decreased and even more things going through it what are we supposed to do besides press this every 3 seconds and heal in between from all the stuff thats going through it? Imagine if mines only worked on Argonians and Khajits. It would be more useless than it stands to be now.

pjwb16_ESO

Armitas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hopefully they give bow one attack that can not be reflected either.

On top of that i think reflect should have it´s projectile cap removed.
The duration should be set to 3s with cost reduced by 25%
One morph should reflect with increased dmg.
The other morph should deflect/absorb and remove/prevent snares and roots for it´s duration.

With the duration decreased and even more things going through it what are we supposed to do besides press this every 3 seconds and heal in between from all the stuff thats going through it? Imagine if mines only worked on Argonians and Khajits. It would be more useless than it stands to be now.

I think it shouldnt work on stealth race altogether lile khajiit and bosmer and argonians so they can gank better

Anti_Virus

Derra wrote: »

Hopefully they give bow one attack that can not be reflected either.

On top of that i think reflect should have it´s projectile cap removed.
The duration should be set to 3s with cost reduced by 25%
One morph should reflect with increased dmg.
The other morph should deflect/absorb and remove/prevent snares and roots for it´s duration.

Nah flappy wings is finished, sadly now I will Be facerolled by a pet build mSorc...

Derra

Armitas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hopefully they give bow one attack that can not be reflected either.

On top of that i think reflect should have it´s projectile cap removed.
The duration should be set to 3s with cost reduced by 25%
One morph should reflect with increased dmg.
The other morph should deflect/absorb and remove/prevent snares and roots for it´s duration.

With the duration decreased and even more things going through it what are we supposed to do besides press this every 3 seconds and heal in between from all the stuff thats going through it? Imagine if mines only worked on Argonians and Khajits. It would be more useless than it stands to be now.

Wings need a working counter accessible for ranged playstyles of magica and stamina alike.

There should be no ability that hardcounters a complete playstyle.

CyrusArya

If you have difficulty countering or at the very least stalling a sorc as a magicka DK, you need to learn to play the class. That's on live. With the incoming changes, the net loss for dks in this match up is force pulse going through wings. The net gain is a much more potent heal than you have on live, 5+% raw damage on your spammable (and FYI I've had power lash hit sorcs for 7-9k in duels consistently), and a powerful ulti that will be the go to in this match up. And in the end, Force pulse going thru wings is probably a buff as that skill will never be what kills the DK and the change will result in more up time on wings.

Listening to some of these usual DK naysayers you'd think the class is pretty much unplayable right now and that's far from the case. They are too biased to take seriously. The changes incoming are strong and I look forward to playing my DK. But if any of you have a sorc, I'll gladly duel you on my DK next patch and we can see how helpless the poor, poor magicka DK is...

Armitas

Derra wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hopefully they give bow one attack that can not be reflected either.

On top of that i think reflect should have it´s projectile cap removed.
The duration should be set to 3s with cost reduced by 25%
One morph should reflect with increased dmg.
The other morph should deflect/absorb and remove/prevent snares and roots for it´s duration.

With the duration decreased and even more things going through it what are we supposed to do besides press this every 3 seconds and heal in between from all the stuff thats going through it? Imagine if mines only worked on Argonians and Khajits. It would be more useless than it stands to be now.

Wings need a working counter accessible for ranged playstyles of magica and stamina alike.

There should be no ability that hardcounters a complete playstyle.

Some guy standing in the back of a zerg shooting a bow isn't a playstyle I think we need to defend at the sake of a class. High reward should come with high risk. If we are talking 1v1, wings are not kept up 100% of the time, and poison injection in that scenario already works against wings because it's 100% invisible through animation canceling. Encase and mines is a hard counter to a melee class for the majority of the fight, but that is balanced out by things like wings. If you truly believe no ability should hard counter a playstyle then get rid of mines. But we can't get rid of mines, because mines are integral to a sorcs viability, just like wings are to DKs.

DK's and Templars are alike, they are melee brawlers with no mobility, no escape, no ability to choose their fight. They rely on skills that lower the the number of surrounding people that are fighting them through abilities like blazing shield and wings. That is part of what makes them viable open world.


This is a good representation of the situation that was posted by Joy. There is no room for nerfs here.

AzuraKin

fred4 wrote: »

I am, of course, referring to Force Shock. The 2.7.0 patch notes state:

Force Shock: This ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected. Beam-type attacks cannot be reflected, but are able to be blocked.

Compared to the 2.7.2 patch notes this is a rather flippant comment. I know that beam type attacks, such as lightning / resto heavies, Soul Assault, J-Beam, and so on, cannot be reflected. Obviously Force Shock was not, up to now, in the same category. I really hope there is a better explanation than "oh we changed it, because we now think it's a beam-type attack".

The primary users of Force Shock are magicka sorcs. I main a melee (stam) DK and find my fights against them quite balanced and rather interesting. Yes, wings will negate much of what a sorcerer does, but a sorc typically also impedes me a great deal with mines and shields. Wings are expensive. I cannot maintain them continuously.

I guess this may turn out to be a double edged sword. Since wings only reflect 4 projectiles, there may be more uptime against Crystal Frags (or Merciless Resolve) by letting Force Shock through. It still seems like a DK nerf though.

i hear they gonna also reduce flappy wings to only reflect 0 targets in 2018.

Armitas

AzuraKin wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I am, of course, referring to Force Shock. The 2.7.0 patch notes state:

Force Shock: This ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected. Beam-type attacks cannot be reflected, but are able to be blocked.

Compared to the 2.7.2 patch notes this is a rather flippant comment. I know that beam type attacks, such as lightning / resto heavies, Soul Assault, J-Beam, and so on, cannot be reflected. Obviously Force Shock was not, up to now, in the same category. I really hope there is a better explanation than "oh we changed it, because we now think it's a beam-type attack".

The primary users of Force Shock are magicka sorcs. I main a melee (stam) DK and find my fights against them quite balanced and rather interesting. Yes, wings will negate much of what a sorcerer does, but a sorc typically also impedes me a great deal with mines and shields. Wings are expensive. I cannot maintain them continuously.

I guess this may turn out to be a double edged sword. Since wings only reflect 4 projectiles, there may be more uptime against Crystal Frags (or Merciless Resolve) by letting Force Shock through. It still seems like a DK nerf though.

i hear they gonna also reduce flappy wings to only reflect 0 targets in 2018.

I'm sure they will leave the damage increase in too.

Sugaroverdose

Derra wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hopefully they give bow one attack that can not be reflected either.

On top of that i think reflect should have it´s projectile cap removed.
The duration should be set to 3s with cost reduced by 25%
One morph should reflect with increased dmg.
The other morph should deflect/absorb and remove/prevent snares and roots for it´s duration.

With the duration decreased and even more things going through it what are we supposed to do besides press this every 3 seconds and heal in between from all the stuff thats going through it? Imagine if mines only worked on Argonians and Khajits. It would be more useless than it stands to be now.

Wings need a working counter accessible for ranged playstyles of magica and stamina alike.

There should be no ability that hardcounters a complete playstyle.

Mines requires counter for mele magicka dk, where it is? Where counter for shield stacking?
Force shock(it's counted as 3 separate projectiles, did you know?) + LA weave = wings already down

Derra

Armitas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hopefully they give bow one attack that can not be reflected either.

On top of that i think reflect should have it´s projectile cap removed.
The duration should be set to 3s with cost reduced by 25%
One morph should reflect with increased dmg.
The other morph should deflect/absorb and remove/prevent snares and roots for it´s duration.

With the duration decreased and even more things going through it what are we supposed to do besides press this every 3 seconds and heal in between from all the stuff thats going through it? Imagine if mines only worked on Argonians and Khajits. It would be more useless than it stands to be now.

Wings need a working counter accessible for ranged playstyles of magica and stamina alike.

There should be no ability that hardcounters a complete playstyle.

Some guy standing in the back of a zerg shooting a bow isn't a playstyle I think we need to defend at the sake of a class. High reward should come with high risk. If we are talking 1v1 wings are not kept up 100% of the time, and poison injection in that scenario already works against wings because it's 100% invisible through animation canceling. Encase and mines is a hard counter to a melee class for the majority of the fight, but that is balanced out by things like wings.

DK's and Templars are alike, they are melee brawlers with no mobility, no escape, no ability to choose their fight. They rely on skills that lower the the number of surrounding people that are fighting them through abilities like blazing shield and wings. That is part of what makes them viable open world.

Sorry. I simply can´t agree with you.

I also did not say snipe should be unreflectable. I just said one bow skill should be. I would not have made forcepulse unreflectable but instead destructive touch/reach.

And for a 1v1 situation saying wings are not kept up 100% of the time is the same like a sorc saying shields are not kept up 100% of the time.
That´s a true statement in itself - but in both cases it fails to mention that the ability is only inactive when it´s absolutely not relevant to be used.

Comparing wings and mines also hardly works. Mines work as a softcounter for melee. You can still do your work if you´re willing to take the dmg (or you can just mistlol them away).
Wings can in comparison used reactively on projectiles already fired at you and for the period after that hardcounter any decently hitting skill available to a sorc.

The statement of DKs being melee brawlers is the main reason why wings got the nerfbat multiple times btw (imo). They were able to force every opponent into melee where they were the strongest class back then.
The changes i´ve proposed would also greatly help a DK in my opinion and make wings a really good skill again.

lucky_Sage

Derra wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hopefully they give bow one attack that can not be reflected either.

On top of that i think reflect should have it´s projectile cap removed.
The duration should be set to 3s with cost reduced by 25%
One morph should reflect with increased dmg.
The other morph should deflect/absorb and remove/prevent snares and roots for it´s duration.

With the duration decreased and even more things going through it what are we supposed to do besides press this every 3 seconds and heal in between from all the stuff thats going through it? Imagine if mines only worked on Argonians and Khajits. It would be more useless than it stands to be now.

Wings need a working counter accessible for ranged playstyles of magica and stamina alike.

There should be no ability that hardcounters a complete playstyle.

there should be no ability that hard counter something so what about cleanse that hard counters DoT builds. plus eclipse till people realize it can be cc broke unless they say that's a bug and change it. it will be a magplar ,magsorc meta with proc build in there

I haven't used wings in over a months and doing better without them other than taking recourses take slightly longer now. I'm no longer wasting magicka on crap spell that in hope will help you get close to your target. but when sorc hide in mines and bow gankers just stealth and run and but doesn't reflect all the shots from them like it suppose to.

Derra

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hopefully they give bow one attack that can not be reflected either.

On top of that i think reflect should have it´s projectile cap removed.
The duration should be set to 3s with cost reduced by 25%
One morph should reflect with increased dmg.
The other morph should deflect/absorb and remove/prevent snares and roots for it´s duration.

With the duration decreased and even more things going through it what are we supposed to do besides press this every 3 seconds and heal in between from all the stuff thats going through it? Imagine if mines only worked on Argonians and Khajits. It would be more useless than it stands to be now.

Wings need a working counter accessible for ranged playstyles of magica and stamina alike.

There should be no ability that hardcounters a complete playstyle.

Mines requires counter for mele magicka dk, where it is? Where counter for shield stacking?
Force shock(it's counted as 3 separate projectiles, did you know?) + LA weave = wings already down

I´ve never seen that confirmed ever.

Always takes me two light attacks and two shocks to take down wings - which is a very stupid thing to do in the first place.

I´m 100% against stacking hardened ward and harness magica and have been advocating to get it removed for over a year now.

Mines get hardcountered by mistform. Also my proposed changes for wings would give DKs an option to choose a softcounter for the mine root aswell.

Armitas

Derra wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hopefully they give bow one attack that can not be reflected either.

On top of that i think reflect should have it´s projectile cap removed.
The duration should be set to 3s with cost reduced by 25%
One morph should reflect with increased dmg.
The other morph should deflect/absorb and remove/prevent snares and roots for it´s duration.

With the duration decreased and even more things going through it what are we supposed to do besides press this every 3 seconds and heal in between from all the stuff thats going through it? Imagine if mines only worked on Argonians and Khajits. It would be more useless than it stands to be now.

Wings need a working counter accessible for ranged playstyles of magica and stamina alike.

There should be no ability that hardcounters a complete playstyle.

Some guy standing in the back of a zerg shooting a bow isn't a playstyle I think we need to defend at the sake of a class. High reward should come with high risk. If we are talking 1v1 wings are not kept up 100% of the time, and poison injection in that scenario already works against wings because it's 100% invisible through animation canceling. Encase and mines is a hard counter to a melee class for the majority of the fight, but that is balanced out by things like wings.

DK's and Templars are alike, they are melee brawlers with no mobility, no escape, no ability to choose their fight. They rely on skills that lower the the number of surrounding people that are fighting them through abilities like blazing shield and wings. That is part of what makes them viable open world.

Sorry. I simply can´t agree with you.

I also did not say snipe should be unreflectable. I just said one bow skill should be. I would not have made forcepulse unreflectable but instead destructive touch/reach.

And for a 1v1 situation saying wings are not kept up 100% of the time is the same like a sorc saying shields are not kept up 100% of the time.
That´s a true statement in itself - but in both cases it fails to mention that the ability is only inactive when it´s absolutely not relevant to be used.

Comparing wings and mines also hardly works. Mines work as a softcounter for melee. You can still do your work if you´re willing to take the dmg (or you can just mistlol them away).
Wings can in comparison used reactively on projectiles already fired at you and for the period after that hardcounter any decently hitting skill available to a sorc.

I don't see a problem with the CC of flaming donut and the CC of a bow skill going through. I don't off hand know what the damage of either is atm but I don't see a problem with the concept of the CC going through. I don't think it's necessary but just on the singular point it's not very detrimental as you are going to get CC'd every 6seconds anyway.

Wings are not kept up 100% of the time except for when surrounded. It's just not done, it costs a ton and and we have complex rotations, we don't just lit channel and shield. We don't have two shields to overlap while we dps, one of which can return magicka. I know you are against it but that is what exists.

Wings is the same way, you can still give the damage if your willing to take the damage. You can CC and prevent the next cast and unload your frag proc and overload combo. It's hit or miss reactivley on frag procs, all depends on the server, but you can also reduce the notification time by casting it point blank or at least closer to the target while they are in a current animation.

Armitas

CyrusArya wrote: »

If you have difficulty countering or at the very least stalling a sorc as a magicka DK, you need to learn to play the class. That's on live. With the incoming changes, the net loss for dks in this match up is force pulse going through wings. The net gain is a much more potent heal than you have on live, 5+% raw damage on your spammable (and FYI I've had power lash hit sorcs for 7-9k in duels consistently), and a powerful ulti that will be the go to in this match up. And in the end, Force pulse going thru wings is probably a buff as that skill will never be what kills the DK and the change will result in more up time on wings.

Listening to some of these usual DK naysayers you'd think the class is pretty much unplayable right now and that's far from the case. They are too biased to take seriously. The changes incoming are strong and I look forward to playing my DK. But if any of you have a sorc, I'll gladly duel you on my DK next patch and we can see how helpless the poor, poor magicka DK is...

Record and post a few of them if you would against sorcs people might recognize. Do it on an mDK in a open world build, not a dueling build.

Sugaroverdose

Derra wrote: »

I´ve never seen that confirmed ever.

Always takes me two light attacks and two shocks to take down wings - which is a very stupid thing to do in the first place.

I´m 100% against stacking hardened ward and harness magica and have been advocating to get it removed for over a year now.

Mines get hardcountered by mistform. Also my proposed changes for wings would give DKs an option to choose a softcounter for the mine root aswell.

i've been said that it should've been fixed long ago with wings nerf, i'll try to recheck it today.

But it wasn't implemented(shield stack nerf), when mDK are already nerfed, so next 3 month(or maybe for bigger time, only wrobel knows) every msorc will have huge superiority over mdk

Sorry but not, mist form is not hard counter, i can play as minefield cleaning machine, but i loose magicka, health and cannot damage, while your way to counter is "spammable damage ability which completely ignores reflects" makes a stupid situation where mDK just get drilled down to death from sorc sitting behind mines even without casting frags.

Curse, endless fury does deal damage and it's noticeable, add fact that mDK does not have reliable selfheal(cDB is piece of zos) and you already in balance with mdk, force shock just removes boring balance and gives sorcs option kill mDK without risk

Aedaryl

Stop crying about force pulse now unreflectable, that's a joke !

What can do sorc before that balance ? Oh yeah, they could use curse, and execute if you slotted it, and ligtning staff heavy attack if you have one, that's all.

Magicka sorcerer play style was destroy by one skill.
One skill can now by pass wings, that mean counter. Everything in the game should have counter. Magicka dk can still counter sorc, because sorc can't still burst with frag.

Any decent magicka dk run mist form, for mobility, and mist form counter mines, destro ultimate, and everything else.

Stop qq about magicka dk pls, it's buffed, and it will continued, I'm sure.

lucky_Sage

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I´ve never seen that confirmed ever.

Always takes me two light attacks and two shocks to take down wings - which is a very stupid thing to do in the first place.

I´m 100% against stacking hardened ward and harness magica and have been advocating to get it removed for over a year now.

Mines get hardcountered by mistform. Also my proposed changes for wings would give DKs an option to choose a softcounter for the mine root aswell.

i've said that it should've been fixed long ago with wings nerf, i'll try to recheck it today.

But it wasn't implemented, when mDK are already nerfed, so next 3 month(or maybe for bigger time, only wrobel knows) every msorc will have huge superiority over mdk

Sorry but not, it's not hard counter, i can play as minefield cleaning machine, but i loose magicka, health and cannot damage, while your way to counter is "spammable damage ability which completely ignores reflects" makes a stupid situation where mDK just get drilled down to death from sorc sitting behind mines even without casting frags.

Curse, endless fury does deal damage and it's noticeable, add fact that mDK does not have reliable selfheal(cDB is piece of zos) and you already in balance with mdk, force shock just removes boring balance and gives sorcs option kill mDK without risk

don't worry you will get strong heal cause you will be low on magicka trying to keep wings up hoping it will reflect something.
(says sarcastically)
ps then die cause no magicka and cant ult cause you need it as execute

Armitas

Aedaryl wrote: »

Stop crying about force pulse now unreflectable, that's a joke !

What can do sorc before that balance ? Oh yeah, they could use curse, and execute if you slotted it, and ligtning staff heavy attack if you have one, that's all.

Magicka sorcerer play style was destroy by one skill.
One skill can now by pass wings, that mean counter. Everything in the game should have counter. Magicka dk can still counter sorc, because sorc can't still burst with frag.

Any decent magicka dk run mist form, for mobility, and mist form counter mines, destro ultimate, and everything else.

Stop qq about magicka dk pls, it's buffed, and it will continued, I'm sure.

Whats my class counter to your mines, and no, vampire is not a DK ability, it is world ability. Not to mention it provides no escape due to gap closer slow, and half the time doesn't even provide the mitigation. So lets say I go play minesweeper, gaining no health, no magicka and taking damage, why not just drop mines again. The Sorc is doing damage and gaining magicka from the lit channel, the DK is taking damage, doing 0 damage to the sorc, all while losing magicka. That isn't a winning scenario, thats a slowly losing scenario.

Also going vamp as a DK means that we can't reliably use shields as the shields will receive the fire damage modifier. I know sorcs are not doing fire damage but there are other DK's in the game, as well as destro ults. So don't even expect that we should all be vamps.

lucky_Sage

Aedaryl wrote: »

Stop crying about force pulse now unreflectable, that's a joke !

What can do sorc before that balance ? Oh yeah, they could use curse, and execute if you slotted it, and ligtning staff heavy attack if you have one, that's all.

Magicka sorcerer play style was destroy by one skill.
One skill can now by pass wings, that mean counter. Everything in the game should have counter. Magicka dk can still counter sorc, because sorc can't still burst with frag.

Any decent magicka dk run mist form, for mobility, and mist form counter mines,m destro ultimate, and everything else.

Stop qq about magicka dk pls, it's buffed, and it will continued, I'm sure.

a magdk cant afford eating mines half the time even in mistform cause healing isn't reliable
they could be patient when timing burst like they are suppose to be not thoughing frags ll willie nillie umm use negate

ToRelax

Derra wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hopefully they give bow one attack that can not be reflected either.

On top of that i think reflect should have it´s projectile cap removed.
The duration should be set to 3s with cost reduced by 25%
One morph should reflect with increased dmg.
The other morph should deflect/absorb and remove/prevent snares and roots for it´s duration.

With the duration decreased and even more things going through it what are we supposed to do besides press this every 3 seconds and heal in between from all the stuff thats going through it? Imagine if mines only worked on Argonians and Khajits. It would be more useless than it stands to be now.

Wings need a working counter accessible for ranged playstyles of magica and stamina alike.

There should be no ability that hardcounters a complete playstyle.

Mines requires counter for mele magicka dk, where it is? Where counter for shield stacking?
Force shock(it's counted as 3 separate projectiles, did you know?) + LA weave = wings already down

I´ve never seen that confirmed ever.

Always takes me two light attacks and two shocks to take down wings - which is a very stupid thing to do in the first place.

I´m 100% against stacking hardened ward and harness magica and have been advocating to get it removed for over a year now.

Mines get hardcountered by mistform. Also my proposed changes for wings would give DKs an option to choose a softcounter for the mine root aswell.

Force Shock counted as 3 projectiles originally on 1.6 PTS but was changed before the update went live.

And we did weave Crushing Shock against magicka DKs with 2+ Sorcs. For most DKs, if they just spam wings they eventually die, if they don't, they die faster.

Bashev

ToRelax wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hopefully they give bow one attack that can not be reflected either.

On top of that i think reflect should have it´s projectile cap removed.
The duration should be set to 3s with cost reduced by 25%
One morph should reflect with increased dmg.
The other morph should deflect/absorb and remove/prevent snares and roots for it´s duration.

With the duration decreased and even more things going through it what are we supposed to do besides press this every 3 seconds and heal in between from all the stuff thats going through it? Imagine if mines only worked on Argonians and Khajits. It would be more useless than it stands to be now.

Wings need a working counter accessible for ranged playstyles of magica and stamina alike.

There should be no ability that hardcounters a complete playstyle.

Mines requires counter for mele magicka dk, where it is? Where counter for shield stacking?
Force shock(it's counted as 3 separate projectiles, did you know?) + LA weave = wings already down

I´ve never seen that confirmed ever.

Always takes me two light attacks and two shocks to take down wings - which is a very stupid thing to do in the first place.

I´m 100% against stacking hardened ward and harness magica and have been advocating to get it removed for over a year now.

Mines get hardcountered by mistform. Also my proposed changes for wings would give DKs an option to choose a softcounter for the mine root aswell.

Force Shock counted as 3 projectiles originally on 1.6 PTS but was changed before the update went live.

And we did weave Crushing Shock against magicka DKs with 2+ Sorcs. For most DKs, if they just spam wings they eventually die, if they don't, they die faster.

With the new patch 2 sorcs will drop 1 mDK so fast, it will be ridiculous. That unblocakble and undogable curse which can be casted several times on you from different Sorcs. That only @wrobel can design.

Carbonised

CyrusArya wrote: »

If you have difficulty countering or at the very least stalling a sorc as a magicka DK, you need to learn to play the class. That's on live. With the incoming changes, the net loss for dks in this match up is force pulse going through wings. The net gain is a much more potent heal than you have on live, 5+% raw damage on your spammable (and FYI I've had power lash hit sorcs for 7-9k in duels consistently), and a powerful ulti that will be the go to in this match up. And in the end, Force pulse going thru wings is probably a buff as that skill will never be what kills the DK and the change will result in more up time on wings.

Listening to some of these usual DK naysayers you'd think the class is pretty much unplayable right now and that's far from the case. They are too biased to take seriously. The changes incoming are strong and I look forward to playing my DK. But if any of you have a sorc, I'll gladly duel you on my DK next patch and we can see how helpless the poor, poor magicka DK is...

Apparently YOU'RE the one who is too biased to be taken seriously.

1) +5 % more damage on whip, so effing what. We got a nerf to banner of 5 % as well. +5 % is NOTHING, and whip still requires close combat to use. Oh, your sorc just streaked away, and I have no usable gap closer? So much for that effing whip.

2) "powerful ulti that will be the go to", wow, even with videos of the PTS around, showing how underpowered the FireLeap is, how little damage it does, how unsuited for burst it actually is, and yet you come here with these meaningless statements?

Just because you got wrecked by a magDK in heavy and Black Rose pre-PTS in duels, doesn't mean you have any notion whatsoever as to how magDKs work in open world PvP - especially after next update goes live.