WHY NERF SOUL HARVEST ALONGSIDE INCAP STRIKE -- AGAIN -- Is Soul Harvest OP on live?

NightbladeMechanics

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This is the SECOND TIME Soul Harvest -- and subsequently magicka nightblade -- has been directly nerfed because STAM NIGHTBLADE INCAPACITATING STRIKE IS OP.

Why nerf the base ability and not just the morph WHEN THE MORPH IS THE OVERPERFORMING PART?

<deep breath>

Genuine question to the community: is Soul Harvest overperforming on live?

<whew>

EDIT: for the record, I only use SH for grinding nowadays. I prefer Soul Tether as my front bar ulti for PvP. I advocate against this nerf on principle, not because it directly affects my play style.

Afafrenferr

Play it on PTS first before you come unglued about something.

NightbladeMechanics

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

Afafrenferr wrote: »

Play it on PTS first before you come unglued about something.

This is a simple nerf. I don't believe play testing is required, like for more complex ones.

Rohamad_Ali

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

Soul harvest is hitting like two soaked sponges drenched in coco butter live . Magblade getting the business again for stamina players .

bubbygink

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

Although destro staff got a nice buff which helps Destro/Resto magblades a lot, I feel like duel wield magblades are not very viable in PvP right now (excluding the DW/Destro bomb blades of course). The nerf to soul harvest hurts them even more and really seems unnecessary in my opinion.

Rohamad_Ali

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

Hey look , there's only 3 of us left that play Magblade lol . Oh ... I made myself sad

NightbladeMechanics

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Hey look , there's only 3 of us left that play Magblade lol . Oh ... I made myself sad

bubbygink

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Hey look , there's only 3 of us left that play Magblade lol . Oh ... I made myself sad

Outside of myself and maybe a couple others I see pretty frequently, there are very few non-bomber - i.e. DW/Destro EotS bombers - magblades Ieft on XBox NA. It is hard to even recall times seeing a strife/spectral bow/concealed weapon in my death recap. We are basically unicorns now.

Tryxus

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

And this nerf surprises you? It's not a true class balance update without the mandatory MagBlade nerf

thankyourat

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

I think zos is confused because incap and soul harvest has the same base damage. It's just stamblades can stack so much weapon damage that it makes incap hit alot harder

pieratsos

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

@NightbladeMechanics
Everyone were complaining about magicka nightblade nerfs in this patch. Everyone except you. You thanked them for massive buffs so they decided to fix it.

Xsorus

I don't know, I know I can do 12k with mine..but then again a two handed ult can hit for 35k...so hehe

thankyourat

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

bubbygink wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Hey look , there's only 3 of us left that play Magblade lol . Oh ... I made myself sad

Outside of myself and maybe a couple others I see pretty frequently, there are very few non-bomber - i.e. DW/Destro EotS bombers - magblades Ieft on XBox NA. It is hard to even recall times seeing a strife/spectral bow/concealed weapon in my death recap. We are basically unicorns now.

Yea magblades are ghost on Xbox na unless they run in a zerg bombing. I played for almost 4 hours today and I only seen 3 other magblade, and 2 of those did nothing but cc me and run away lol

Qbiken

You forgot the part where: Leave the skill alone.

RoyJade

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

Qbiken wrote: »

You forgot the part where: Leave the skill alone.

Yeah, but Incap is clearly too powerful in pvp. Incap's nerf is a good thing, soul harvest's one is a bad collateral damage.

bubbygink

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

RoyJade wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

You forgot the part where: Leave the skill alone.

Yeah, but Incap is clearly too powerful in pvp. Incap's nerf is a good thing, soul harvest's one is a bad collateral damage.

I agree with you that incap is over tuned and needs a nerf. And actually a 20 point increase seems about right to me. But why does soul harvest have to take collateral damage when it is not over performing? Just make the base cost of death stroke 70 and then change soul harvest's tooltip to "Reduced cost [down to 50] and, while slotted, any time you kill an enemy you gain 10 ultimate." Then you can just leave soul harvest the same while nerfing incap.

Lucky28

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

oh my god really?. i thought it was just incap XD. that's sad ZOS.

RoyJade

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

A collateral damage is never a good change, and I clearly stated that SH nerf is a "bad" one
I'ld be totally fine with SH morph giving ultimate per kill AND having a reduced cost. And even with that, Sh won't probably be good enough.

Lexxypwns

Soul Harvest needs to cost 70. It's op.

I don't think soul harvest is OP. I think with the other mageblade buffs, a slight nerf to soul harvest, in the form of cost increase(any other nerf would be wrong), is acceptable.

I mean, that assassin's will+soul harvest combo is just up so often and it slays... is a 40% reduction in up time gonna really hurt? yeah, totally. However, with the destro staff and path buffs I think its ok and works to combat a potentially stupid incoming mageblade pvp meta.

The nerf isn't needed for melee mageblades, but ZoS has obviously tried to kill them

saten

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Hey look , there's only 3 of us left that play Magblade lol . Oh ... I made myself sad

I like my Magblade a lot but I still had to make her a mule character...

Rohamad_Ali

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

@ZOS_RichLambert

Can you please have your team look into the negative effect the cost increase has on the magic morph Soul Harvest please ? Soul harvest is already so weak because of its reliance on spell damage that it is not even a reliable skill in non trial , non dungeon open world PVE . Please read some of the comments from the last of the magic nightblade community and their friends . Some of us would like that skill to be at least relevant as a ultimate choice .

I know what some Devs will say , nightblade regeneration on ultimates is high and it's not going to be that bad . I would like to point out however the damage on the skill stinks and that change makes it even more undesirable . Sure the debuffs might be the selling point but magic nightblade does not have high damage spell damage abilities to take advantage of that in time . Stamina users that popped incap have plenty of stam weapons boosted in damage for maxing out stamina to complete their rotation executions .

We magic Nightblades hit soul harvest , maybe concealed weapon and impale ... Look at the player or NPCs standing still almost full health and ask "Did that hurt ?" .

Please throw us some Dev knowledge into this nerf of collateral damage .

Rex-Umbra

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

They are killing Mag NB. Might as well delete my Sap Tank after this update.

thankyourat

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I don't think soul harvest is OP. I think with the other mageblade buffs, a slight nerf to soul harvest, in the form of cost increase(any other nerf would be wrong), is acceptable.

I mean, that assassin's will+soul harvest combo is just up so often and it slays... is a 40% reduction in up time gonna really hurt? yeah, totally. However, with the destro staff and path buffs I think its ok and works to combat a potentially stupid incoming mageblade pvp meta.

The nerf isn't needed for melee mageblades, but ZoS has obviously tried to kill them

But there will never be a magblade meta as long as magsorc is still a class. no reason to play magblade when mag sorc is so much easier to play and just as effective. Soul harvest really wasn't hitting all that hard on well built characters it usually hit for around 5k non crit. I'll still use it because I use it for the heal debuff and not the damage, but this was another unnecessary nerf

stealthyevil

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

I was hoping Soul Harvest would stay at 50 ultimate in this PTS patch. I don't have much to look forward to next patch for my magblade

GreenSoup2HoT

Soul Harvest needs to cost 70. It's op.

Considering magblade utilizes a siphoning ability basically on cool-down for ult regen and is granted 10 ult on kill i don't think its an issue. All though im not opposed to Soul Harvest remaining at 50 ultimate.

In general Magblades are usually bomb blades / destro ult bombers. So nerfing there single target ultimate cost isn't really an issue to me.

Solariken

It's weird to say but I haven't been hit by Soul Harvest enough lately to really have an informed opinion about whether it deserves the cost increase. There just aren't enough magblades in Cyrodiil at the moment. However, ultimate generation is stupid fast for Nightblades, especially when getting kb's, so I don't foresee this being much of an issue. Another reason I'm not getting smacked by it is likely that mNb's are mostly just front-barring SH to charge a Destro ult faster.

Incap needed the increase though, definitely.

NightbladeMechanics

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Considering magblade utilizes a siphoning ability basically on cool-down for ult regen and is granted 10 ult on kill i don't think its an issue. All though im not opposed to Soul Harvest remaining at 50 ultimate.

In general Magblades are usually bomb blades / destro ult bombers. So nerfing there single target ultimate cost isn't really an issue to me.

Yet you vote that it's op and in need of a nerf on zee poll.

NightbladeMechanics

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

thankyourat wrote: »

I think zos is confused because incap and soul harvest has the same base damage. It's just stamblades can stack so much weapon damage that it makes incap hit alot harder

Sounds entirely feasible. A poignant observation.

pieratsos wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics
Everyone were complaining about magicka nightblade nerfs in this patch. Everyone except you. You thanked them for massive buffs so they decided to fix it.

You're right! ZOS y u betray me?

Qbiken wrote: »

You forgot the part where: Leave the skill alone.

No, incap needs a nerf. That's common knowledge at this point.

NightbladeMechanics

Incap is the op morph. Nerf it and leave Soul Harvest alone.

stealthyevil wrote: »

I was hoping Soul Harvest would stay at 50 ultimate in this PTS patch. I don't have much to look forward to next patch for my magblade

I am planning the cheesiest of cheese bombing builds, clocking 25k destro ult ticks on not so tanky players on PTS, even after the nerfs. Less against proper heavy armor builds and if I use vd of course. Bombers are getting buffs!!

Not that bombing is skillful, engaging, or fun, but it'll be briefly amusing and quite profitable. <shrug>

Gilvoth

there is nothing wrong with Incapacitating strike. please stop making threads about it.
no change was needed in it at all, no one has ever complained about it. no one. atleast not untill the proc sets came out.
what has happened is the proc sets increased its damage. nothing more.
Incapacitating strike never needed a change. people whom dont like incap are the ones whom are dying to it.
if i go to the sorcerer thread and make complaints about thier ability to do high damage enough, then maybe zenimax will remove and alter thier damage. and even that huge Girth red ring that takes everyone out of stealth. i sit on that complaint here on the forums untill its removed.
or, what about going to the templar threads, and complain about them to the pojnt where they have thier ability to heal all the way out of a close death call. and the fact that they should not be able to stunn Anyone, they have no need to stunn people and no need to do damage since thier a healing class and not meant for damage.
and if i sit on that complaint and daily make threads about it and constantly mention it then in time i could even have the changes in thier class that i want as well.
and then i can start in on the dragonights class. how thier constant rooting people with stunn and alot of fire damage is just way too high. and that the drgon leap does far too much damage, especially since thier class is not meant to do anything but Tank, so why should they have any abilities like that.
ill sit and point it out on every thread i can and every time i comment.
perhaps if i do those things like has been recently and is going on here in this thread. it will then look as if im right, and then we will begin to see changes to those classes.

thats not only childish but that is completely unfair to that class, especially since the greater majority of people in those classes cant even come here to the forums and try to stop my complaints by pointing out the truth.

and in the end my complaints would outweigh thier facts, and the changes i request would happen. which is dumb, and unfair.

people keep coming to the forums and commenting that they want certain skills or ultimates or class weakened in some way. and they do this repeatedly untill they get what they want.
they even keep makeing new threads about that certain thing they want weakened and calling it "revisited" or "is this skill nerfed yet" type titles.
it is kept fresh and constant untill they get that item nerfed or weakened.


this is destroying class balance more more and more every single patch.
this is why we have problems with imbalance,

GreenSoup2HoT

Soul Harvest needs to cost 70. It's op.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Considering magblade utilizes a siphoning ability basically on cool-down for ult regen and is granted 10 ult on kill i don't think its an issue. All though im not opposed to Soul Harvest remaining at 50 ultimate.

In general Magblades are usually bomb blades / destro ult bombers. So nerfing there single target ultimate cost isn't really an issue to me.

Yet you vote that it's op and in need of a nerf on zee poll.

There was only 2 poll options and they are pretty biased. I personally see no issue with the cost increase to the ultimate, explained why in my previous comment.

If there was an option that stated "this ultimate is balanced, the cost increase not necessary but sort of justified based on magblade ult regen" i would of picked that. I by no means think Soul Harvest is OP. I don't even think Incap is OP. When used in conjunction with proc sets and some other abilties it becomes more notably OP.

Im a stam nightblade. I just got the cost increase to.. and in my opinion Soul Harvest is the better morph because of back-to-back ult potenail with things like Destro Ult/Proxi Bombing. It is a low blow to magicka nightblade's yes but its not like that class revolved around Soul Harvest.