Stam ult balance (PvP)

Ultimate_Overlord

Remember the times when leap was a fine ult, some people even complained about it being op since it was the only physical ult? Crescent sweep was a great ulti too, people even compared it to "stamplar leap". Then dawnbreaker appeared, and now leap is not so fine, sweep is not so great. Over the months people got used to dawnbreaker, it became the new standard for stam ults in the head. Then the complaints came in, since dawnbreaker was so much better than any other ult with its good burst, strong dot, relatively low cost and, most importantly, undodgable cc.
Long story short, the root of the problem is dawnbreaker and the unthoughtful efforts to balance it (you dont increase the cost to match the ults strength, you adjust the ults strength to match to cost, or you will end up with things like destro ult). To make other ults viable you need to properly nerf dawnbreaker instead of removing counterplay to other ults so it matches dawnbreakers lack of counterplay. It does too many things for 1 ability. The undodgable part of dawnbreaker was always there, its kind of its unique theme, so it should stay.

1st suggestion:
Reduce the dmg. That will bring the design to more of a newbie ult (that seems to be the trend) - easy to land, provides a cc, allowing you to follow it up more easily, but doesnt hit that hard compared to ults that are harder to use and/or require more precision to follow up (lack of cc on sweep and the predictability of leap)

2nd suggestion:
Remove the cc. The ult is already impossible to avoid (well, it does bug out sometimes, but thats not the player countering it, its the game giving them a free pass) and it hits really hard, why should the user have the luxury to easily follow it up with a skill that is also impossible to avoid? The strong burst+ 1st tick of the dot+ another unavoidable skill give too much burst potential for such an easy to use ult. To lower the burst potential, either the cc or the high burst from the initial hit should go.

Fun fact:
In 1.6 when zos removed cast time from dawnbreaker, it bugged out, so the 1st tick of the dot was hitting at the same time as the initial hit making burst way too high, so in ic patch they increased the dot duration to 5s to delay that 1st tick. How is current dawnbreaker different from 1.6 one, since in both cases the 1st dot tick still adds up to your unavoidable burst, just in a different way?

Ultimate_Overlord

Forgot to mention, the changes to leap and sweep should be reverted if one of those dawnbreaker changes is applied. I think thats the best way to balance stam ults right now.

NightbladeMechanics

Bolstering Darkness, Soul Siphon, Agony, Leeching Strikes.

dsalter

Storm Arch.
templar ulti's.
2hand ulti (it's more lame than anything but it does see use. needs a rework)

leepalmer95

Leap is getting buffed, non dodgeable + magicka morph

Sweep is becoming non dodgeable and is becoming stamina

2h and ult is fine if you make full use of it. E.g. Vs heavy armor.

Atro is getting buffed by 25%

Remembrance is used in group pvp, it's a nice reaction to an enemy eye of the storm.

Nova is useful on breaches, it's useful in pve.

Bolstering isn't too good admittedly but it's good if you use it on a character made for it. E.g. A sap tank for 60% reduction damage.


I like the way this thread it titled boost underused ult's but is really just a nerf dawnbreaker thread.

Ultimate_Overlord

@leepalmer95 Yes, its a nerf dawnbreaker thread, as intended. It is titled "Buffing underused ultimates...", there is a difference. The idea of this thread was to point out that buffing the underused ultimates zos decided to buff this patch was a bad choice, especially in a way they did it. Better nerf 1 ult that blows every other stam ult out of the water instead of buffing every other ultimate to cater to dawnbreaker. If balance is executed in the way that zos decided to take, who knows, in a year destro ult will probably be another bad ult compared to everything else. All characters have gotten so strong over the last patches, if zos keeps buffing and buffing everything we will just all become demigods.
Balance should be achieved through thoughtful nerfs and buffs, instead of mindless buffs of every underrated skill to the ceiling.

olsborg

Dawnbreaker of smiting is just too good compared to the new crescent, leap or any of the wep ulties (stamina)

If they dropped the cost of dawnbreaker to 100 again, and reduced the dmg to (ballpark) the same amount as crescent, it would be better.

Ultimate_Overlord

Funny how people just started to saying random words, probably cause they just read the title alone, and it turned this thread into the exact opposite of what was intended xD
THIS IS NOT A "BUFF UNDERUSED ULTIMATES" THREAD, ITS A "NERF THE ULTS THAT CAUSE ALL OTHERS TO BE UNDERUSED" THREAD.

leepalmer95

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

Funny how people just started to saying random words, probably cause they just read the title alone, and it turned this thread into the exact opposite of what was intended xD
THIS IS NOT A "BUFF UNDERUSED ULTIMATES" THREAD, ITS A "NERF THE ULTS THAT CAUSE ALL OTHERS TO BE UNDERUSED" THREAD.

So why title it that?

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Czirne

clickbait!

Ultimate_Overlord

I wrote "buffing", because that is the approach zos decided to take for balancing.
Changed the title, happy now?

Silver_Strider

I use Flawless for PvE because Idgaf any more. It's the only way my Stamblade can compete any more.

It makes vMA a ***** but I just hit so much harder that I ignore the lack of CC.

usmcjdking

I would prefer they renerf the damage on DBOS and increase the undead damage to compensate.

Mappy2kx

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

Remember the times when leap was a fine ult, some people even complained about it being op since it was the only physical ult? Crescent sweep was a great ulti too, people even compared it to "stamplar leap". Then dawnbreaker appeared, and now leap is not so fine, sweep is not so great. Over the months people got used to dawnbreaker, it became the new standard for stam ults in the head. Then the complaints came in, since dawnbreaker was so much better than any other ult with its good burst, strong dot, relatively low cost and, most importantly, undodgable cc.
Long story short, the root of the problem is dawnbreaker and the unthoughtful efforts to balance it (you dont increase the cost to match the ults strength, you adjust the ults strength to match to cost, or you will end up with things like destro ult). To make other ults viable you need to properly nerf dawnbreaker instead of removing counterplay to other ults so it matches dawnbreakers lack of counterplay. It does too many things for 1 ability. The undodgable part of dawnbreaker was always there, its kind of its unique theme, so it should stay.

1st suggestion:
Reduce the dmg. That will bring the design to more of a newbie ult (that seems to be the trend) - easy to land, provides a cc, allowing you to follow it up more easily, but doesnt hit that hard compared to ults that are harder to use and/or require more precision to follow up (lack of cc on sweep and the predictability of leap)

2nd suggestion:
Remove the cc. The ult is already impossible to avoid (well, it does bug out sometimes, but thats not the player countering it, its the game giving them a free pass) and it hits really hard, why should the user have the luxury to easily follow it up with a skill that is also impossible to avoid? The strong burst+ 1st tick of the dot+ another unavoidable skill give too much burst potential for such an easy to use ult. To lower the burst potential, either the cc or the high burst from the initial hit should go.

Fun fact:
In 1.6 when zos removed cast time from dawnbreaker, it bugged out, so the 1st tick of the dot was hitting at the same time as the initial hit making burst way too high, so in ic patch they increased the dot duration to 5s to delay that 1st tick. How is current dawnbreaker different from 1.6 one, since in both cases the 1st dot tick still adds up to your unavoidable burst, just in a different way?

Stop asking for changes man ! Adapt ! L 2 P !!! L2p ! Jeeesuuss !

DeadlyRecluse

TBH, I dream of all non-class ultimates being removed (and class ults balanced).

The trend of all-class ultimates being the default in PvP is boring, imo. I want to coordinate Shackle+Gravity Crush synergies again.

Ultimate_Overlord

@DeadlyRecluse This thread has been dead for a long time man. Its just this one guy decided to harass me by commenting stupid stuff lmao

DeadlyRecluse

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@DeadlyRecluse This thread has been dead for a long time man. Its just this one guy decided to harass me by commenting stupid stuff lmao

I see that, my bad for contributing to necromancy.

I stand by my statement though : P

amir412

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

1st suggestion:
Reduce the dmg. That will bring the design to more of a newbie ult (that seems to be the trend) - easy to land, provides a cc, allowing you to follow it up more easily, but doesnt hit that hard compared to ults that are harder to use and/or require more precision to follow up (lack of cc on sweep and the predictability of leap)

2nd suggestion:
Remove the cc. The ult is already impossible to avoid (well, it does bug out sometimes, but thats not the player countering it, its the game giving them a free pass) and it hits really hard, why should the user have the luxury to easily follow it up with a skill that is also impossible to avoid? The strong burst+ 1st tick of the dot+ another unavoidable skill give too much burst potential for such an easy to use ult. To lower the burst potential, either the cc or the high burst from the initial hit should go.

Fun fact:
In 1.6 when zos removed cast time from dawnbreaker, it bugged out, so the 1st tick of the dot was hitting at the same time as the initial hit making burst way too high, so in ic patch they increased the dot duration to 5s to delay that 1st tick. How is current dawnbreaker different from 1.6 one, since in both cases the 1st dot tick still adds up to your unavoidable burst, just in a different way?

Leave DB alone it already got rekt by series of nerfs.....
I use take flight when i want to burst down pepole, also dizzing swing + take flight still doing nice dmg , better burst from db.
SImply pepole dont quit stam dk anymore, thats the only *** ult i can use to stay competitive. T_

If ZOS nerfs DB i wanna see a nerf to Soul assault,and Incap Strike.
God those nerf threads are getting old... just l2p.

dsalter wrote: »

Storm Arch.
templar ulti's.
2 hand ulti (it's more lame than anything but it does see use. needs a rework)

Thats a nice one, Come alkir desert bergma shrine in eu ill show u how 2h ult is lame.

There are many other stuff zos need to rebalance....

Tyrobag

There's a necromancer about... And this thread's already been necroed so its sloppy seconds -_-

Ultimate_Overlord

Yeah plz stop commenting here this thread is from homestead pts

amir412

Mappy2kx wrote: »

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

Remember the times when leap was a fine ult, some people even complained about it being op since it was the only physical ult? Crescent sweep was a great ulti too, people even compared it to "stamplar leap". Then dawnbreaker appeared, and now leap is not so fine, sweep is not so great. Over the months people got used to dawnbreaker, it became the new standard for stam ults in the head. Then the complaints came in, since dawnbreaker was so much better than any other ult with its good burst, strong dot, relatively low cost and, most importantly, undodgable cc.
Long story short, the root of the problem is dawnbreaker and the unthoughtful efforts to balance it (you dont increase the cost to match the ults strength, you adjust the ults strength to match to cost, or you will end up with things like destro ult). To make other ults viable you need to properly nerf dawnbreaker instead of removing counterplay to other ults so it matches dawnbreakers lack of counterplay. It does too many things for 1 ability. The undodgable part of dawnbreaker was always there, its kind of its unique theme, so it should stay.

1st suggestion:
Reduce the dmg. That will bring the design to more of a newbie ult (that seems to be the trend) - easy to land, provides a cc, allowing you to follow it up more easily, but doesnt hit that hard compared to ults that are harder to use and/or require more precision to follow up (lack of cc on sweep and the predictability of leap)

2nd suggestion:
Remove the cc. The ult is already impossible to avoid (well, it does bug out sometimes, but thats not the player countering it, its the game giving them a free pass) and it hits really hard, why should the user have the luxury to easily follow it up with a skill that is also impossible to avoid? The strong burst+ 1st tick of the dot+ another unavoidable skill give too much burst potential for such an easy to use ult. To lower the burst potential, either the cc or the high burst from the initial hit should go.

Fun fact:
In 1.6 when zos removed cast time from dawnbreaker, it bugged out, so the 1st tick of the dot was hitting at the same time as the initial hit making burst way too high, so in ic patch they increased the dot duration to 5s to delay that 1st tick. How is current dawnbreaker different from 1.6 one, since in both cases the 1st dot tick still adds up to your unavoidable burst, just in a different way?

Stop asking for changes man ! Adapt ! L 2 P !!! L2p ! Jeeesuuss !

This guy is mad man, now its all clear.
DEV's should lock this.