Possible Compromise on Velocious Curse/Haunting Curse to save DW/PVP Sorcs

Dyride

Several people have brought up combining Haunting Curse with Daedric Prey. I think this is a possible solution but here is another alternative.

Have the first explosion for Haunting Curse be at 3.5 sec (or 4 secs) instead of 6 secs. Have the second explosion at 12 secs.

This gives the same GCD savings intended for Haunting Curse but retains the short-term burst ability for DW sorcs and PVP if people want to spend the GCD and keep re-applying Haunting Curse after the first explosion at 3.5 secs.

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @HoloYoitsu @Force-Siphon @Derra @Dracane @Xeven @Minalan @Fasoo @Yolokin_Swagonborn @YoloWizard @CyrusArya @Hexys @FriedEggSandwich

Lots of other sorcs out there. Continue Tagging.

Izaki

Or just revert the change?
I was fine with my PvE rotation and my DW sorc was doing great. So there were no needs for changes at all.
If we had to have a change though, I don't know if waiting for the second explosion for 8.5 seconds is any better. In PvE sure. In PvP? Idk seems a waste to me.

Dracane

Combining haunting curse and daedric prey would make so much sense and would have been the better solution.
This way you could safely take this for pve, no matter if you are using pets or not and leave the other morph for pvp.
Just like they did it with conjured ward and its morphs.

NightbladeMechanics

Definitely a confusing change. My sorc will be forever different should Haunting Curse go through. Fast paced combat and changing target prioritization define the play style...but those will be next to impossible with a 6s delay on Curse.

Minalan

I could go with this, or just reverting it. So long as there's nothing to stop sorcs from recasting it.

The 3.5S det is a must for PVP.

Derra

When looking at both aspects of the game basically every option is preferred over the current solution.

I think combining haunting curse and daedric prey would be my go to solution. It makes the most sense for me gameplay wise and would fit well with the zos attemps to make us use pets (it won´t happen anyway though).

Your proposal seems fine aswell though. I have to admit i´d like to have the second explosion on daedric prey for the added build possibilities.
Having "haunting prey" and velocious curse would create one of the most interesting morph choices in the game currently.

Juhasow

In my opinion if hauting curse would blow up 1st after 3,5 sec and later after 6 seconds the whole ,,simplify" idea would be pointless because it would still require use it each 3,5 sec in PvE to maximize DPS.

My idea is to leave velocous untouched and make daedric prey changed to haunting curse. To compensate pet bonus dmg there could be some passive (for example reworked Rebate) in daedric summonig that increase pet dmg by 30/55% on enemies affected by daedric summoning abilities for 6 seconds after affecting them. That would give sorc viabale morphs for both PvP and PvE and make pet sorc( which I think overall idea now is to buff up) more flexibility.

NightbladeMechanics

Derra wrote: »

When looking at both aspects of the game basically every option is preferred over the current solution.

I think combining haunting curse and daedric prey would be my go to solution. It makes the most sense for me gameplay wise and would fit well with the zos attemps to make us use pets (it won´t happen anyway though).

Your proposal seems fine aswell though. I have to admit i´d like to have the second explosion on daedric prey for the added build possibilities.
Having "haunting prey" and velocious curse would create one of the most interesting morph choices in the game currently.

I agree. Lining up that scamp stun with not the first curse, but the second detonation on Prey would be really interesting now that the scamp ticks for a couple more seconds. The combo could also be set up so far in advance that the sorc could apply a lot of consistent pressure before the pet lines up the cc.

Xeven

Have the first explosion for Haunting Curse be at 3.5 sec (or 4 secs) instead of 6 secs. Have the second explosion at 12 secs.

I approve, though I still think Haunting is just fine the way it is.

Derra

Xeven wrote: »

Have the first explosion for Haunting Curse be at 3.5 sec (or 4 secs) instead of 6 secs. Have the second explosion at 12 secs.

I approve, though I still think Haunting is just fine the way it is.

It is fine and a great backbar damage over time. But it removed a lot of what made sorc rotation and timed burst interesting to play in both pvp and pve.

To atleast keep the pvp part of timed burst i think the good functionality of haunting curse could just be merged into daedric prey while keeping velocious curse intact - in the end we´d just have a more interesting morph choice (daedric prey would nowbe worthwhile without utilizing pets aswell) while also buffing pets as a playstyle and promoting build diversity.

If you think about it the game can only win from this kind of change @Wrobel

WolfgangArmadeus

Solution for what? Magic characters not being meant to use stamina based weapons? Why would a sorcerer use dual wield anyways? Besides of course wanting to exploit a design oversight. You shouldnt be a viable magsorc with dual wield, now you have a choice to make. Pick a staff.

"The wand chooses the wizard".

Or switch to stam. And become a disgrace to the wizarding world.

Im glad they are trying to slowly bring the identity back to the seperate classes. DW was not meant for magsorc, ppl just use it because its easy to exploit.

Izaki

WolfgangArmadeus wrote: »

Solution for what? Magic characters not being meant to use stamina based weapons? Why would a sorcerer use dual wield anyways? Besides of course wanting to exploit a design oversight. You shouldnt be a viable magsorc with dual wield, now you have a choice to make. Pick a staff.

"The wand chooses the wizard".

Or switch to stam. And become a disgrace to the wizarding world.

Im glad they are trying to slowly bring the identity back to the seperate classes. DW was not meant for magsorc, ppl just use it because its easy to exploit.

It was never an exploit.
Its a different playstyle. If your definition of identity is that all mages must have a staff well then... Go play other TES games, "spell swords" were always a viable playstyle. According to you a magicka templar shouldn't be using SnB (making use of its passives). Is a magicka DK using SnB exploiting too? Same goes for DW.

leepalmer95

WolfgangArmadeus wrote: »

Solution for what? Magic characters not being meant to use stamina based weapons? Why would a sorcerer use dual wield anyways? Besides of course wanting to exploit a design oversight. You shouldnt be a viable magsorc with dual wield, now you have a choice to make. Pick a staff.

"The wand chooses the wizard".

Or switch to stam. And become a disgrace to the wizarding world.

Im glad they are trying to slowly bring the identity back to the seperate classes. DW was not meant for magsorc, ppl just use it because its easy to exploit.

Tell that to any magicka build using s&b , thats a stamina based weapon.

'Exploit' it annoys me when people throw that word around.

If the dw passive wasn't mean't to increase all skills damage or if using dw didn't increase your overall base spell damage then it wouldn't of been in the game for longer than a year.

Izaki

leepalmer95 wrote: »

WolfgangArmadeus wrote: »

Solution for what? Magic characters not being meant to use stamina based weapons? Why would a sorcerer use dual wield anyways? Besides of course wanting to exploit a design oversight. You shouldnt be a viable magsorc with dual wield, now you have a choice to make. Pick a staff.

"The wand chooses the wizard".

Or switch to stam. And become a disgrace to the wizarding world.

Im glad they are trying to slowly bring the identity back to the seperate classes. DW was not meant for magsorc, ppl just use it because its easy to exploit.

Tell that to any magicka build using s&b , thats a stamina based weapon.

'Exploit' it annoys me when people throw that word around.

If the dw passive wasn't mean't to increase all skills damage or if using dw didn't increase your overall base spell damage then it wouldn't of been in the game for longer than a year.

Wasn't it more like 1 year and a half?

Force-Siphon

Derra wrote: »

When looking at both aspects of the game basically every option is preferred over the current solution.

I think combining haunting curse and daedric prey would be my go to solution. It makes the most sense for me gameplay wise and would fit well with the zos attemps to make us use pets (it won´t happen anyway though).

Your proposal seems fine aswell though. I have to admit i´d like to have the second explosion on daedric prey for the added build possibilities.
Having "haunting prey" and velocious curse would create one of the most interesting morph choices in the game currently.

I think this would be the best outcome at this point if they choose not to revert the change and would be a decent compromise with what they are trying to do. You would have a morph that would fit in with "simplifying" the rotation which is what they said their intent was while at the same time leaving the other morph and keeping many sorcs from jumping off a cliff lol.

WolfgangArmadeus

@IzakiBrotherSs

It is definitely the unitended result of the system, thats why they are balancing it out. They dont think Magicka Sorcerers a.k.a.( Wizards) should be so strong with stam weapons.

Sure if you want to run with dw you can, but it definitely shouldnt be better than using a wizards main weapon, which any person with a brain would tell you is a staff or a wand, not two swords.

Dont troll me into a seperate debate. Topic is about MagSorc and DW. Which obviously shouldnt be as strong as it is.

I didnt say anyone should be restricted to anything. I said Magicka Sorcerers aka (Wizards) should not be viable with stam weapons.

Do you run a destro staff on your Stam Nightblade? No... Of course not. But you would if you could exploit some unitended mechanic to be stronger.

Other classes are stronger with the weapons that were designed with their classes in mind, duhhhh.

They are balancing things that are the unintended result of certain mechanics, thus the curse change to make dw magsorc as stoopid as it sounds.

Good topic, but I completely agree with the devs. The only solution to silly dw magsorc is to change curse.

Your personality says frost staff. Give it a try.

Good day

lygerseye

WolfgangArmadeus wrote: »

@IzakiBrotherSs

It is definitely the unitended result of the system, thats why they are balancing it out. They dont think Magicka Sorcerers a.k.a.( Wizards) should be so strong with stam weapons.

Sure if you want to run with dw you can, but it definitely shouldnt be better than using a wizards main weapon, which any person with a brain would tell you is a staff or a wand, not two swords.

Dont troll me into a seperate debate. Topic is about MagSorc and DW. Which obviously shouldnt be as strong as it is.

I didnt say anyone should be restricted to anything. I said Magicka Sorcerers aka (Wizards) should not be viable with stam weapons.

Do you run a destro staff on your Stam Nightblade? No... Of course not. But you would if you could exploit some unitended mechanic to be stronger.

Other classes are stronger with the weapons that were designed with their classes in mind, duhhhh.

They are balancing things that are the unintended result of certain mechanics, thus the curse change to make dw magsorc as stoopid as it sounds.

Good topic, but I completely agree with the devs. The only solution to silly dw magsorc is to change curse.

Your personality says frost staff. Give it a try.

Good day

So much for "play how you want".

Izaki

WolfgangArmadeus wrote: »

@IzakiBrotherSs

It is definitely the unitended result of the system, thats why they are balancing it out. They dont think Magicka Sorcerers a.k.a.( Wizards) should be so strong with stam weapons.

Sure if you want to run with dw you can, but it definitely shouldnt be better than using a wizards main weapon, which any person with a brain would tell you is a staff or a wand, not two swords.

Dont troll me into a seperate debate. Topic is about MagSorc and DW. Which obviously shouldnt be as strong as it is.

I didnt say anyone should be restricted to anything. I said Magicka Sorcerers aka (Wizards) should not be viable with stam weapons.

Do you run a destro staff on your Stam Nightblade? No... Of course not. But you would if you could exploit some unitended mechanic to be stronger.

Other classes are stronger with the weapons that were designed with their classes in mind, duhhhh.

They are balancing things that are the unintended result of certain mechanics, thus the curse change to make dw magsorc as stoopid as it sounds.

Good topic, but I completely agree with the devs. The only solution to silly dw magsorc is to change curse.

Your personality says frost staff. Give it a try.

Good day

Sorcs aren't the only ones to use DW. And DW for sorcs was widely considered not viable since Thieves Guild patch. And it was never an exploit. Like leepalmer said, it was in the game for more than a year. If it was unintended they would have fixed it. Btw they never stated that Haunting Curse was meant to exterminate a playstyle, they said it was meant to simplify the rotations.
Why am I arguing with you if you have little idea of what you're talking about?

Yolokin_Swagonborn

WolfgangArmadeus wrote: »

Solution for what? Magic characters not being meant to use stamina based weapons? Why would a sorcerer use dual wield anyways? Besides of course wanting to exploit a design oversight. You shouldnt be a viable magsorc with dual wield, now you have a choice to make. Pick a staff.

"The wand chooses the wizard".

Or switch to stam. And become a disgrace to the wizarding world.

Im glad they are trying to slowly bring the identity back to the seperate classes. DW was not meant for magsorc, ppl just use it because its easy to exploit.

gibous

I agree with those who've said in the various curse-related threads that a full reversion is less likely to happen than a compromise.

I could get behind the idea laid out by OP. Also don't mind the idea of giving an echo to the pet morph.