Minor Magicka Steal

Biro123

Can anyone on the PTS clarify how this works?

Created a new debuff category, Minor Magickasteal. This is a debuff applied to enemies that restores a flat value of Magicka to the attacker every second (400 Magicka every second at CP160).

By 'the attacker'.. does it mean whoever attacks it while the debuff is active? Or does it mean it simply gives 400/sec to who applied the debuff (regardless of whether they attack)? while the debuff is active?

Reorx_Holybeard

Attacker is anyone that attacks (does damage) to the thing with the debuff. If you don't do damage you won't get the 400 Magicka and you have to do damage every second in order to get the Magicka back every second. If you're attacking 10 things with the debuff you only get Magicka back at most once every 1 second, although I hear in PVP it may be bugged and giving back per target at the moment (confirmed as working the same in PVP as in PVE, limit of 400 magicka/sec regardless of targets).

Biro123

Ah, shame. I was kind of hoping it could help with sustain in open-world (where you can't always keep focused on the same target).. Does it still return magicka if you only have a dot ticking on them?

leepalmer95

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

Attacker is anyone that attacks (does damage) to the thing with the debuff. If you don't do damage you won't get the 400 Magicka and you have to do damage every second in order to get the Magicka back every second. If you're attacking 10 things with the debuff you only get Magicka back at most once every 1 second, although I hear in PVP it may be bugged and giving back per target at the moment.

Meaning magplars are even better in groups? They can just throw out their aoei magicka steal and tag a lot of people? Giving the entire raid basically 800 regen?

SwaminoNowlino

Since this now applies a debuff to people, how does it work in PVP? I assume its purgable? What priority is this debuff given when a purge is used? As a templar in a group I could load people down with this debuff to clog their ability to purge more debilitating effects. Furthermore, since this is a debuff, how does it work cross faction? If a yellow player hits a red player with magicka steal, and then a blue player hits that red player, does the blue player get resources back? Same with life steal, if I am in a tri-fight and put blood altar down, am I going to be healing other factions?

paulsimonps

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Since this now applies a debuff to people, how does it work in PVP? I assume its purgable? What priority is this debuff given when a purge is used? As a templar in a group I could load people down with this debuff to clog their ability to purge more debilitating effects. Furthermore, since this is a debuff, how does it work cross faction? If a yellow player hits a red player with magicka steal, and then a blue player hits that red player, does the blue player get resources back? Same with life steal, if I am in a tri-fight and put blood altar down, am I going to be healing other factions?

That last bit in tri fights is very interesting.... will have to get some friends to test this with.

btw for those that want to know, it gives you magicka for only one target no matter how many you hit. Say for example you use Radiant Aura to apply it to a large group and you then do a AoE that hits the whole group then it will still only give you 400/s at CP 160+. Also it does work on DoT's.

paulsimonps

@SwaminoNowlino

I got 2 friends to help me test it. I was DC and one of us was EP and one was AD. EP used Elemental Drain on AD and after draining my magicka I hit the AD to see if I got magicka back, I did not. Same thing with Minor Lifesteal using Bloodalter, no heals.

SwaminoNowlino

@paulsimonps sweet. Really appreciate you taking the time to test this. Glad to see it's not that broken! Did you happen to test purge priorities in relation to these?

Sheuib

Does it actually steal magicka from the target or just give magicka to the person attacking?

paulsimonps

Sheuib wrote: »

Does it actually steal magicka from the target or just give magicka to the person attacking?

I have not actually tested this but the tooltip does not say anything about it and to be honest that would be way to OP in PvP with Radiant Aura being a 25m Radius Minor Magickasteal ability with U13.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

Do you guys realize how strong this is going to be with Blazing Shield Templar Tanks? The new Restoring Aura morph on top of having Desert Rose equipped as your waist, 2 of 3 jewelry pieces, and your weapons? You'll have nearly infinite magicka sustain. Desert rose procs giving him back 2400 magicka. Then the shield breaks and does damage granting himself 400 magicka per enemy hit. The thicker the group of enemies, the more magicka return.

VampiricByNature

I'm confused. Is it 400 per second regardless or 400 per add?

It seems like 400mag per second is nothing. Am I wrong?

olsborg

VampiricByNature wrote: »

I'm confused. Is it 400 per second regardless or 400 per add?

It seems like 400mag per second is nothing. Am I wrong?

400 magicka per second = 800 magicka regeneration. Wich is quite alot.

paulsimonps

olsborg wrote: »

VampiricByNature wrote: »

I'm confused. Is it 400 per second regardless or 400 per add?

It seems like 400mag per second is nothing. Am I wrong?

400 magicka per second = 800 magicka regeneration. Wich is quite alot.

Its nothing compared to current Siphon Spirit or Elemental Drain on live thou, and those can be per add. Minor Magickasteal is 400/s period, no way to buff it and it doesn't matter how many you hit, its 400/s. For those that are not currently affected by Elemental Drain this is a buff, for those that currently are this is a nerf.

danno8

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Do you guys realize how strong this is going to be with Blazing Shield Templar Tanks? The new Restoring Aura morph on top of having Desert Rose equipped as your waist, 2 of 3 jewelry pieces, and your weapons? You'll have nearly infinite magicka sustain. Desert rose procs giving him back 2400 magicka. Then the shield breaks and does damage granting himself 400 magicka per enemy hit. The thicker the group of enemies, the more magicka return.

It is capped at 400/s no matter how many enemies have the debuff or how many you hit.

The cap is on the attacker, not on the debuffed. So a debuffed enemy being attacked by 10 people will give out 400/s to all 10 attackers, but 10 debuffed enemies being attacked by 1 attacker (using a broad AoE), that attacker will only get 400/s.

A nice thing is that it works with DoT's, so a blazeplar could also just cast a cheap long lasting Dot to keep the flow coming.

SwaminoNowlino

Blazeplar won't be able to run radiant aura. Too expensive and they need repent for the stamina.

tplink3r1

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Blazeplar won't be able to run radiant aura. Too expensive and they need repent for the stamina.

They don't need stamina.

SwaminoNowlino

tplink3r1 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Blazeplar won't be able to run radiant aura. Too expensive and they need repent for the stamina.

They don't need stamina.

Then you have no idea how to play one effectively.

tplink3r1

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Blazeplar won't be able to run radiant aura. Too expensive and they need repent for the stamina.

They don't need stamina.

Then you have no idea how to play one effectively.

Then you have no idea about the ice staff changes.

SwaminoNowlino

tplink3r1 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Blazeplar won't be able to run radiant aura. Too expensive and they need repent for the stamina.

They don't need stamina.

Then you have no idea how to play one effectively.

Then you have no idea about the ice staff changes.

Blocking reduces damage taken, which is the opposite of what a blazeplar wants. It also stops magicka regen. So you're using your limited resource pool, which you need for your expensive Shield, to reduce damage taken when that's the whole point of your build? Again, my point stands and this is getting side tracked.

tplink3r1

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Blazeplar won't be able to run radiant aura. Too expensive and they need repent for the stamina.

They don't need stamina.

Then you have no idea how to play one effectively.

Then you have no idea about the ice staff changes.

Blocking reduces damage taken, which is the opposite of what a blazeplar wants. It also stops magicka regen. So you're using your limited resource pool, which you need for your expensive Shield, to reduce damage taken when that's the whole point of your build? Again, my point stands and this is getting side tracked.

It doesn't when you are blocking, but it prevents you from being stunned, and the magicka regen is not a problem if you are using the right gear.
You just told me i never played a blazeplar because i don't think they need stamina, and now you are just telling me that block reduces damage taken on shields, i just can't take you serious anymore.

Dracane

tplink3r1 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Blazeplar won't be able to run radiant aura. Too expensive and they need repent for the stamina.

They don't need stamina.

Then you have no idea how to play one effectively.

Then you have no idea about the ice staff changes.

Blocking reduces damage taken, which is the opposite of what a blazeplar wants. It also stops magicka regen. So you're using your limited resource pool, which you need for your expensive Shield, to reduce damage taken when that's the whole point of your build? Again, my point stands and this is getting side tracked.

It doesn't when you are blocking, but it prevents you from being stunned, and the magicka regen is not a problem if you are using the right gear.
You just told me i never played a blazeplar because i don't think they need stamina, and now you are just telling me that block reduces damage taken on shields, i just can't take you serious anymore.

Don't listen to it. Blocking never reduced the damage dealt to shields and it still doesn't.
Blocking with damage shields active only protects you from CCs and overflow damage, your shields still take the full damage. This is one of the oldest rules in eso, I thought everyone knows that.

leepalmer95

Dracane wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Blazeplar won't be able to run radiant aura. Too expensive and they need repent for the stamina.

They don't need stamina.

Then you have no idea how to play one effectively.

Then you have no idea about the ice staff changes.

Blocking reduces damage taken, which is the opposite of what a blazeplar wants. It also stops magicka regen. So you're using your limited resource pool, which you need for your expensive Shield, to reduce damage taken when that's the whole point of your build? Again, my point stands and this is getting side tracked.

It doesn't when you are blocking, but it prevents you from being stunned, and the magicka regen is not a problem if you are using the right gear.
You just told me i never played a blazeplar because i don't think they need stamina, and now you are just telling me that block reduces damage taken on shields, i just can't take you serious anymore.

Don't listen to it. Blocking never reduced the damage dealt to shields and it still doesn't.
Blocking with damage shields active only protects you from CCs and overflow damage, your shields still take the full damage. This is one of the oldest rules in eso, I thought everyone knows that.

Not every forum warriors knows what their talking about sadly.

paulsimonps

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-and-list-of-options/p1

There you guys go, a full list of what mitigates damage taken before a shield take damage and what mitigates damage after the shield takes damage, and note of course like many have said, the shield it self does not have mitigation.

That said, Frost Staff for Sun Shield using Templar Tanks in PvP seems like a really bad idea. You get no magicka recovery and you would not be able to spam your sun shield or block for very long at all and then you are out of magicka and you can't block CC's or Debuffs and you can't heal, which will lead to a quick death. Desert Rose and Minor Magickasteal will not be enough to keep you up and running.

Synozeer

paulsimonps wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-and-list-of-options/p1

There you guys go, a full list of what mitigates damage taken before a shield take damage and what mitigates damage after the shield takes damage, and note of course like many have said, the shield it self does not have mitigation.

That said, Frost Staff for Sun Shield using Templar Tanks in PvP seems like a really bad idea. You get no magicka recovery and you would not be able to spam your sun shield or block for very long at all and then you are out of magicka and you can't block CC's or Debuffs and you can't heal, which will lead to a quick death. Desert Rose and Minor Magickasteal will not be enough to keep you up and running.

Agreed, and you lose a 5 piece armor bonus for using Ice Staff. Not for Blazing Shield builds.

Inig0

As it stands this debuff isn't enough to sustain magic builds. Along side orbs it's barely enough. What I propose is similar to what we have on live -- three sources of magic return. Ele drain siphon and orbs is what is on live. Zos consolidated ele drain and sihpon into a minor magickasteal. To compensate zos should also include a major magickasteal. That could be applied in one of two ways. After someone synergizes an orb (let's say mystic) they get the burst magicka back (like in live) but they also apply major magickasteal to all the enemies that were affected by the orb explosion. This would do two things. 1) create a third source of magicka sustain like we have on live 2) it would make the sustain from orbs much more consistent. everyone can agree popping orbs is most challenging thing to do in eso. Not everyone would need to pop the orb to get the sustain because it would be applied to the mob(s). The other option would be to apply it to force siphon. Considering the fact that that skill is a channel I think it warrants a major buff.

Inferno3

Has anyone tested the numbers between this and effects like ele drain and siphon in a practical environment? I know it sounds like itll be a nerf but by how much?

leepalmer95

paulsimonps wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-and-list-of-options/p1

There you guys go, a full list of what mitigates damage taken before a shield take damage and what mitigates damage after the shield takes damage, and note of course like many have said, the shield it self does not have mitigation.

That said, Frost Staff for Sun Shield using Templar Tanks in PvP seems like a really bad idea. You get no magicka recovery and you would not be able to spam your sun shield or block for very long at all and then you are out of magicka and you can't block CC's or Debuffs and you can't heal, which will lead to a quick death. Desert Rose and Minor Magickasteal will not be enough to keep you up and running.

Hmm.

Dessert rose = 2k~ when it procs
Minor magicka steal = 400 per second so equal to 800 regen.
Heavy armor? = Not sure if this is used or not but if it its roughly equiv to 465 regen in pvp.

So without dessert rose thats 1265 magicka back per second.

They may be able to sustain for a long time.
It's not like they have to perma block either.

paulsimonps

leepalmer95 wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-and-list-of-options/p1

There you guys go, a full list of what mitigates damage taken before a shield take damage and what mitigates damage after the shield takes damage, and note of course like many have said, the shield it self does not have mitigation.

That said, Frost Staff for Sun Shield using Templar Tanks in PvP seems like a really bad idea. You get no magicka recovery and you would not be able to spam your sun shield or block for very long at all and then you are out of magicka and you can't block CC's or Debuffs and you can't heal, which will lead to a quick death. Desert Rose and Minor Magickasteal will not be enough to keep you up and running.

Hmm.

Dessert rose = 2k~ when it procs
Minor magicka steal = 400 per second so equal to 800 regen.
Heavy armor? = Not sure if this is used or not but if it its roughly equiv to 465 regen in pvp.

So without dessert rose thats 1265 magicka back per second.

They may be able to sustain for a long time.
It's not like they have to perma block either.

I think you are thinking slightly wrong on that without desert rose part. Also kind laughed at the typo :P Dessert Rose :P

400/s is equal to 800 regen yes, but regen is every 2s remember and so if you say what we get back per second then its 400 not 800 and Heavy armor is 186 per piece of armor and its every 4 second. Say you have 7 heavy just to get max out of it, that's 1302 every 4s or 325 every second. So the magicka you get back per second without the desert rose is 725. Lowest possible cost with a frost staff is 207, and cost can be taken away from you max every 0.5s. So say you are getting hit A LOT. Then its 414 per second and you are only keeping 311 of those 725 magicka per second. And a Sun shield costs what? ~3800 ish without cost reduction. Yea they would not be able to sustain that for very long at all without regen even with the possible help of desert rose.

Brutusmax1mus

Especially considering to stack health they sack max magicka. It's all about regen. Holding block and stopping regen will kill you quick if i had to guess.

VampiricByNature

Inferno3 wrote: »

Has anyone tested the numbers between this and effects like ele drain and siphon in a practical environment? I know it sounds like itll be a nerf but by how much?

This is what I'm dying to know. I'm used to raiding with both of those skills. Is siphon a dead skill now?

@olsborg do you happen to know the live server math on ele+siphon? How much are we losing compared to the 800regen you have tested on the pts?