PTS Feedback Thread for Master Crafting Writs

  • Truthsnark
    Truthsnark
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    I got asked to go and smith a pair of Redistributor set pants. WTH is Redistributor, I asked myself? It was 135 vouchers so as I was keen to do it, I looked up this particular set. The crafting site is located in the Imperial City. So not only is it in a PVP zone, it's a DLC that I'd have to have purchased (or have ESO+ membership). Is it intended to have writs that require the purchase of DLC? This is not in-line with previous actions regarding new global content and DLC zones. For example, the highest crafting writs being moved out of Wrothgar and into Belkarth with the advent of One Tamriel.

    Also I cannot turn in any Master provisioning writs to Mr. Hlaalu. The quest pin points me right to him but he steadfastly refuses to have a dialogue option for turn-in. All versions seem affected - EP, DC, and AD.
  • Dominoid
    Dominoid
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    I have cataloged 540 Master crafting writs with the requirements for the writ and the number of writ vouchers rewarded at the google doc below for those that are interested. I will try to decipher the writ reward algorithm later in the week. Feel free to do it for me:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zjp0byRyjqQAopZhcWqConJsQiVZQQqH4fxo22qxJc8/edit?usp=sharing


    It's on the "Master Writs" tab.



    Edited by Dominoid on January 18, 2017 8:38PM
  • Mix
    Mix
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    @Dominoid Are all the writs on the spreadsheet post 2.7.2? They adjusted some things with this latest update.

    BUG: I cannot seem to turn in any "A Masterful Feast" quests. I only checked EP, but @Truthsnark seems to be having the same problem

    Love the spreadsheet:) Been making a spreadsheet myself for housing but haven't tackled Master Writs myself yet. I did notice a rather huge disparity in gold cost to fulfill writ per voucher awarded.

    It is very rough but using just the most expensive mats for the writ to gauge cost:

    Enchanting: using Rekuta awarded 2 Writ Vouchers (at around 80g per Rekuta this works out to 40g/voucher)

    Woodworking: potent nirncrux and 4 mastic: awarding 27 vouchers = 850g/voucher

    Those were the two extremes. Most seemed to fall into the 400-500g/voucher range. Now that is using prices from my MM on Live and I have no doubt the price of materials will be going up when Update 13 launches.

    It also feels that not a lot of credit is being given on this end of the Master Writ for the research needed to complete the crafting writs. Each requires an item from a specific set and specific trait. There seems to be some factor awarded to the rarity/price of the needed style material...
  • helediron
    helediron
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    Voucher rewards are wonked out. They have no connection to effort nor cost. Glyphs, food and potions can be made in seconds from cheap stuff. Epic gear writs give same amount of vouchers but require much more time and materials. Worst of all are legendary gear with regular trait. They cost hundred times more than some glyph.

    At least double the rewards from regular trait gear writs. Especially the golden writs must give much more to compensate the cost AND they are now rare. Current rewards only lead to trashing of goldens except the super-writs and mass crafting of the cheapest consumable writs.

    BTW i also can't return feast writ to Rolis.
    On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone
  • helediron
    helediron
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    Dominoid wrote: »
    I have cataloged 540 Master crafting writs with the requirements for the writ and the number of writ vouchers rewarded at the google doc below for those that are interested. I will try to decipher the writ reward algorithm later in the week. Feel free to do it for me:
    ...snip...
    I took it into excel, divided the description into columns (using ; and : as separators) and played around. After sorting it into descending vouchers, i think i know the algorithm. It's darts table algorithm enhanced with at least three beers.
    On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone
  • Soella
    Soella
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    Master writs can be sold, so pretty much after some initial period different proportion cost/reward for different writs could be countered by their different price on the market. For example, legendary master writ you can buy for 2K gold, but alchemy one would cost you 20K.

    It require quite a lot of time while significant amount of crafters will be saturated with vouchers. Without numbers available only for ZOS I would speculate it will take at least time until next update.
  • Dominoid
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    @Mix, Yes all done post 2.7.2. They were all done today. I made 15 template characters. opened the writs boxes/envelopes and wrote an add-on to scrape the data from your backpack inventory.
  • Annalyse
    Annalyse
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    Question - I wanted to create a bunch of template characters and learn varying amounts of motifs to collect some data from doing writs, but my previous template character was only given lower level mats (none of the top tier stuff), so she was unable to do writs without using the materials copied across from my account. Now that those are gone, is there another way to get the materials without farming for hours just for testing purposes? I'm a bit confused as to why they aren't given to the template characters along with everything else so I feel like I'm missing something.
  • SpAEkus
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    Annalyse wrote: »
    Question - I wanted to create a bunch of template characters and learn varying amounts of motifs to collect some data from doing writs, but my previous template character was only given lower level mats (none of the top tier stuff), so she was unable to do writs without using the materials copied across from my account. Now that those are gone, is there another way to get the materials without farming for hours just for testing purposes? I'm a bit confused as to why they aren't given to the template characters along with everything else so I feel like I'm missing something.

    Just make one or two max template characters. I think they each have all the current mats. 2-3 will give you 3-4K of every material, unless they changed this PTS templates. There are a couple complete recipe boxes plus an unlimited crafter kit plus the motif boxes.

  • Annalyse
    Annalyse
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    SpAEkus wrote: »
    Annalyse wrote: »
    Question - I wanted to create a bunch of template characters and learn varying amounts of motifs to collect some data from doing writs, but my previous template character was only given lower level mats (none of the top tier stuff), so she was unable to do writs without using the materials copied across from my account. Now that those are gone, is there another way to get the materials without farming for hours just for testing purposes? I'm a bit confused as to why they aren't given to the template characters along with everything else so I feel like I'm missing something.

    Just make one or two max template characters. I think they each have all the current mats. 2-3 will give you 3-4K of every material, unless they changed this PTS templates. There are a couple complete recipe boxes plus an unlimited crafter kit plus the motif boxes.

    My max template character didn't get the higher tier mats (rubedite, ancestor silk, etc) or runes. That was my issue. She got crates full of mats and runes but they only went to the second highest tier and I want to do max tier writs.
  • SpAEkus
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    Annalyse wrote: »
    My max template character didn't get the higher tier mats (rubedite, ancestor silk, etc) or runes. That was my issue. She got crates full of mats and runes but they only went to the second highest tier and I want to do max tier writs.

    I just loaded 3 char on PC-NA, CP600, CP300 and L49.

    They all got all mats. 1.4K of each per character after opening (I think) all the mat containers.

    You opened the Ultimate Crafting Crate and then the individual Crafter Materials Crates? And you took everything?

    Do you have Craft Bag? All my mats went in there.

    You will not see the Rubedo or Silk in the container popups when you first open the Crafter Materials Crates because there are too many items for the popup to scroll. I guess its the same for the Runes, I didn't check those after the BS-WW-Cloth was okay. And re-checked, same issue for the Runes you won't see them in the Popup.

    You can either take ALL or you'll have to take enough out of the popup to get the Rubedo and Silk to scroll up.

    If they are still not there then yes I guess you have a bug/error.

    Edited by SpAEkus on January 19, 2017 5:32AM
  • VarilRau
    VarilRau
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    helediron wrote: »
    Dominoid wrote: »
    I have cataloged 540 Master crafting writs with the requirements for the writ and the number of writ vouchers rewarded at the google doc below for those that are interested. I will try to decipher the writ reward algorithm later in the week. Feel free to do it for me:
    ...snip...
    I took it into excel, divided the description into columns (using ; and : as separators) and played around. After sorting it into descending vouchers, i think i know the algorithm. It's darts table algorithm enhanced with at least three beers.

    I just came to the same conclusion.
    Varil Rau, Mag sorcerer
    Viiltoveikko, Stam sorcerer
    Meadshield, nord dragonknight

    DC EU
  • CREEP
    CREEP
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    Dominoid wrote: »
    I have cataloged 540 Master crafting writs with the requirements for the writ and the number of writ vouchers rewarded at the google doc below for those that are interested. I will try to decipher the writ reward algorithm later in the week. Feel free to do it for me:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zjp0byRyjqQAopZhcWqConJsQiVZQQqH4fxo22qxJc8/edit?usp=sharing


    It's on the "Master Writs" tab.



    Just an observation:
    The writ voucher reward is a rounded number from the last section in the "item link" section before the "|h|h".
    Whatever the formula is the end result is that number and then rounded for the reward.

    Will work on figuring out more.
  • saxgooner
    saxgooner
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    I was wondering if you could have someone craft an item for you and when you take it into your inventory it would complete the writ.
    I know that when I do provisioner writs for instance I have a stack of each in the bank and when I withdraw it to my inventory it completes it.?
    it would be a nice earner as a full crafter of everything available.
  • Fudly_budly
    Fudly_budly
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    saxgooner wrote: »
    I was wondering if you could have someone craft an item for you and when you take it into your inventory it would complete the writ.
    I know that when I do provisioner writs for instance I have a stack of each in the bank and when I withdraw it to my inventory it completes it.?
    it would be a nice earner as a full crafter of everything available.

    nope. won't work between toons either
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  • helediron
    helediron
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    Preliminary statistics about chance of getting master writs:
    - True master crafter (knows everything on every profession, 9 traits, all motifs, all achievements): one master writ per day.
    - Good crafter (8 traits, all cheap purple motifs, all achievements sans legendary): one every second day.
    - Crap crafter (few traits, no epic motifs, no attempt to do achievements): alchemy one every six days, others rarely (very unreliable).

    Legendary drop rate: 25%

    All crafters are at crafting level 50 and had relevant skill points assigned. They did all six normal writs.

    Alchemy has high rates because it's easy to maximize quickly and all had the achievements. Enchanting is also relatively easily maximizable.These numbers are from too small sample to hold any statistical relevance.

    I think the drop rates of master writs are okay. Rewards need fixing.
    edit: slightly clarified some ambiguous parts.
    Edited by helediron on January 20, 2017 7:33AM
    On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone
  • CombatPrayer
    CombatPrayer
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    Dominoid wrote: »
    @Mix, Yes all done post 2.7.2. They were all done today. I made 15 template characters. opened the writs boxes/envelopes and wrote an add-on to scrape the data from your backpack inventory.

    TYVM for putting the time into creating this! Much appreciated!
  • CombatPrayer
    CombatPrayer
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    helediron wrote: »
    Preliminary statistics about chance of getting master writs:
    - True master crafter (knows everything on every profession, 9 traits, all motifs, all achievements): one master writ per day.
    - Good crafter (8 traits, all cheap purple motifs, all achievements sans legendary): one every second day.
    - Crap crafter (few traits, no epic motifs, no attempt to do achievements): alchemy one every six days, others one every 12 days (very unreliable).

    Legendary/golden drop rate: 25%

    All crafters are at crafting level 50 and had relevant skill points assigned. They did all six normal writs.

    Alchemy has high rates because it's easy to maximize quickly and all had the achievements. Enchanting is also relatively easily maximizable.These numbers are from too small sample to hold any statistical relevance.

    I think the drop rates of master writs are okay. Rewards need fixing.

    Which are considered epic motifs. I have so many done with a few almost entirely not done (malcath, ancient orc) but have no idea which is what. TY
  • Annalyse
    Annalyse
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    SpAEkus wrote: »
    Annalyse wrote: »
    My max template character didn't get the higher tier mats (rubedite, ancestor silk, etc) or runes. That was my issue. She got crates full of mats and runes but they only went to the second highest tier and I want to do max tier writs.

    I just loaded 3 char on PC-NA, CP600, CP300 and L49.

    They all got all mats. 1.4K of each per character after opening (I think) all the mat containers.

    You opened the Ultimate Crafting Crate and then the individual Crafter Materials Crates? And you took everything?

    Do you have Craft Bag? All my mats went in there.

    You will not see the Rubedo or Silk in the container popups when you first open the Crafter Materials Crates because there are too many items for the popup to scroll. I guess its the same for the Runes, I didn't check those after the BS-WW-Cloth was okay. And re-checked, same issue for the Runes you won't see them in the Popup.

    You can either take ALL or you'll have to take enough out of the popup to get the Rubedo and Silk to scroll up.

    If they are still not there then yes I guess you have a bug/error.

    Ah, thank you for pointing that out! Her inventory was so clogged from opening crates that I was trying to only take out the materials that I needed, and since you could scroll and it seemed to show almost all of them I assumed that was everything that was available. I will trash a bunch of stuff later when I log in and just take all from the crate.
    Which are considered epic motifs. I have so many done with a few almost entirely not done (malcath, ancient orc) but have no idea which is what. TY

    Epic are the ones that require purple upgrade materials. Legendary is gold.

  • Grumble_and_Grunt
    Grumble_and_Grunt
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    @ZOS_GinaBruno Can confirm what @Edenprime has said, New materials are NOT dropping from crafting surveys for ALL crafts except Alchemy or the drop rate is scrambled besides alchemy, any comment on this? Anyone else from EU cross over managed to find any of the Blacksmithing/Clothing/Woodworking/Enchanting materials from their surveys?
    PC EU
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    #3Qbiken
  • WhiteCoatSyndrome
    WhiteCoatSyndrome
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    @Dominoid @helediron @VarilRau @CREEP I'm looking at Dominoid's Blacksmithing numbers and I did notice something: For the Epic level Writs, all the 5 reward Writs are 7 traits or less, and never Nirnhoned. The 7 reward Epic Writs are always 8 or 9 traits (and never Nirnhoned). 6 reward seems to be a mix of the two categories. I don't know if that helps.
    #proud2BAStarObsessedLoony
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
    A useful explanation for how RNG works
  • CREEP
    CREEP
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    @Dominoid @helediron @VarilRau @WhiteCoatSyndrome

    I have cracked the enchanting algorithm.

    for glyphs base value is 20000
    for legendary value is x3
    for cp160 value is x1.1
    for prismatic value is x2
    divide value by 10000, then round for writ voucher reward

    example:
    Craft a Truly Superb Glyph of Prismatic Defense; Quality: Legendary
    base value =20000
    x3 for legendary =60000
    x1.1 for cp160 = 66000
    x2 for prismatic = 132000
    divide by 10000 = 13.2000

    round for writ vouchers reward =13

    This is the highest amount you will be able to get from any enchanting master writ.

    Confirmed value with @Dominoid post with the following data https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zjp0byRyjqQAopZhcWqConJsQiVZQQqH4fxo22qxJc8/edit#gid=515828384
  • CREEP
    CREEP
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    @Dominoid @helediron @VarilRau @Wh@WhiteCoatSyndrome

    I have figured out the provisioning algorithm as well now.

    like glyphs, base value is 20000

    only modifier is if it requires a perfect roe, if so value is x4

    again, divide value by 10000, then round for writ voucher reward


    Assuming that Mythic Aetherial Ambrosia and the new Aetherial Ambrosia are not possible requests the most writ vouchers you can get from any provisioning master writ is 8.
  • Dominoid
    Dominoid
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    @CREEP, thanks for the work. I broke down the item code for the armor writs earlier. Figured out the meanings but couldn't crack the code for points. Maybe you can.
  • CREEP
    CREEP
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    The alchemy algorithm is simply this:

    poisons reward 2 writ vouchers.

    potions reward 5 writ vouchers.

    It does not appear to take into any consideration what reagents are needed.


    Now on to solving the difficult ones.
    Edited by CREEP on January 20, 2017 5:30AM
  • helediron
    helediron
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    @ZOS_GinaBruno Can confirm what @Edenprime has said, New materials are NOT dropping from crafting surveys for ALL crafts except Alchemy or the drop rate is scrambled besides alchemy, any comment on this? Anyone else from EU cross over managed to find any of the Blacksmithing/Clothing/Woodworking/Enchanting materials from their surveys?
    I harvested about 50 maps total. Only got alchemical resin. No housing mats from Blacksmithing/Clothing/Woodworking/Enchanting.
    On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone
  • Grumble_and_Grunt
    Grumble_and_Grunt
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    helediron wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno Can confirm what @Edenprime has said, New materials are NOT dropping from crafting surveys for ALL crafts except Alchemy or the drop rate is scrambled besides alchemy, any comment on this? Anyone else from EU cross over managed to find any of the Blacksmithing/Clothing/Woodworking/Enchanting materials from their surveys?
    I harvested about 50 maps total. Only got alchemical resin. No housing mats from Blacksmithing/Clothing/Woodworking/Enchanting.

    Thanks @helediron for providing more conclusive data, the drop rates are either skewed or bugged. Any acknowledgement on a planned fix or that you are aware of the issue before Homestead goes live? The patch looks so promising for crafters and crafting surveys are the only means of acquiring these new materials besides mindless farming as well as giving more value to writs in general.

    The new materials are fundamental for all housing related items, be a shame if a bug like this puts a spanner in the works for the first few weeks of housing before it is nipped in the bud, seeing as there will need to be a big injection of these mats into the economy due to the sheer amount of demand there will be as well as to subsidise those who do not intend for their time spent building/decorating their houses to be limited to how many hours they can/are prepared to farm in potentially overcrowded zones beforehand.

    Hoping to hear back from you! Thanks in advanced (Assuming a dev reply :/)

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert
    PC EU
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  • Carbonised
    Carbonised
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    CREEP wrote: »
    @Dominoid @helediron @VarilRau @WhiteCoatSyndrome

    I have cracked the enchanting algorithm.

    for glyphs base value is 20000
    for legendary value is x3
    for cp160 value is x1.1
    for prismatic value is x2
    divide value by 10000, then round for writ voucher reward

    example:
    Craft a Truly Superb Glyph of Prismatic Defense; Quality: Legendary
    base value =20000
    x3 for legendary =60000
    x1.1 for cp160 = 66000
    x2 for prismatic = 132000
    divide by 10000 = 13.2000

    round for writ vouchers reward =13

    This is the highest amount you will be able to get from any enchanting master writ.

    Confirmed value with @Dominoid post with the following data https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zjp0byRyjqQAopZhcWqConJsQiVZQQqH4fxo22qxJc8/edit#gid=515828384

    Thank you very much for these. As I was already aware, the requirement for Hakeijo and Kuta provides rewards that are much, much out of tune with their added costs to the writ.

    x3 for Kuta and x2 for Hakeijo is laughable, considering the prices. I find it particularly amusing that Kuta gives x3, when Kutas are cheaper on live server than Hakeijo, which only give x2 more vouchers.

    Summing up: Voucher rewards for Hakeijo is much, much too low, and for Kuta is still way too low.
    Also, ZOS should really consider altering the Epic glyph writs so you have to make 3, 4 or 5 of them - and provide 3, 4 or 5 times more vouchers. 2 vouchers from a master writ is laughable, when things cost 300 vouchers to buy.
    CREEP wrote: »
    @Dominoid @helediron @VarilRau @Wh@WhiteCoatSyndrome

    I have figured out the provisioning algorithm as well now.

    like glyphs, base value is 20000

    only modifier is if it requires a perfect roe, if so value is x4

    again, divide value by 10000, then round for writ voucher reward


    Assuming that Mythic Aetherial Ambrosia and the new Aetherial Ambrosia are not possible requests the most writ vouchers you can get from any provisioning master writ is 8.

    Pretty much the same as above. Rewards for Roe is way out of tune. Recipes for Roe should give more than x4 vouchers, considering that Roe is 70 times more expensive than Mirriam/Bervez.

    Again I would strongly suggest that provisioning writs are altered to require 4-5 times more provisionings crafted to complete, and reward you 4-5 times more rewards. 2 vouchers per writ is a joke.
    CREEP wrote: »
    The alchemy algorithm is simply this:

    poisons reward 2 writ vouchers.

    potions reward 5 writ vouchers.

    It does not appear to take into any consideration what reagents are needed.

    The poison ones are many more times profitable than potions. For potions you can make 4 from 1 batch of ingredients, which means you have to craft them 5 times. However, poisons you only have to craft twice to reach the amount of 20. Not only that, Alkahest is much more cheap than Lorkhan's Tears, meaning that potions should minimum reward you with 10 vouchers, possibly 12, to reflect the huge difference in costs.

    And again, for poisons, at least raise the required amount to something dividable with 16, since a maxed out alchemist produces 16 poisons per batch. 80 poisons crafted, for 10 vouchers rewarded would be a much more reasonable writ.

    I am looking forward to seeing the equipment writs explained. Already I can see a tendency that legendary tempers are rewarded extremely low vs. cost, especially for clothing and woodworking. Nirnhoned also seems to be somewhat low rewarded, while DLC sets are rewarded much too high, and difficult/expensive motifs also rewarded way too low.

    These are also the PC prices, I imagine the costs vs. rewards ratio is much more askew on Xbox and PS, that tend to have higher prices for crafting components.
    Edited by Carbonised on January 20, 2017 10:06AM
  • CREEP
    CREEP
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    @Carbonised I appreciate the input and couldn't agree more. Seeing this it should be a fairly easy for ZOS "coding wise" (just have to modify the multiplier values I listed), to increase value to some of the more costly items required.

    The blacksmithing/clothing/woodworking is proving more difficult than I expected. Each one has it's own parameter set with much more variables than the other crafting professions.

    Good news is it seems to be like a stepping stone value wise on number of traits required. Also appears that motifs are in tiers, each with a different value and multiplier when combined with a certain number of traits required. Not to mention the nirnhoned value (seems to be a flat rate) and legendary (almost positively a multiplier).

    In other words. It may take me a lot of trial and error to have a breakthrough.
  • Kazya
    Kazya
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    I haven't been able to turn in the provisioning Master writs ever since the change of NA/EU characters, also noticed that others have had the same problem. Is this intended and I have simply missed the information of that (not impossible as I don't read every single thread) or is it being worked on?

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