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The grind for the vMA sharpened inferno staff is taking up ALL of my ingame time
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Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭The drop rate on this piece is so abysmal that on a regular days gaming I'm running time after time after time after time until the hour becomes utterly unsociable, I go to bed and awake ready for another day only to be faced with the same old BS. This has been the case for over 1 year now and it has totally consumed ESO for me and many others that I know, it's absurd! Was this content supposed to be genuine eCrack? Did the ZOS staff responsible for the arena and it's loot really think forcing people to grind for 100s of hours in a single player instance was appropriate in this MMO? Is RNG "working as intended" when you have people close to 200 runs (90 minute time trial) without the sharp inferno staff? Somebody should be held accountable as collectively there are a lifetimes worth of hours being wasted chasing this damned weapon when peoples valuable time could be invested elsewhere in the game actually having fun!!!
@ZOS_GinaBruno
It's alright, you are not supposed to count on vma weapons with certain traits or be able to farm them. They are supposed to be rare and if everyone could get a certain type with a certain trait fast, that would ruin the purpose.
It's ok, if you don't like it - do something else. There's a bunch of stuff you can do other than vMA.raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »Then stop doing it. You can complete all the content in the game without a sharp vMA fire staff.
The loot system is atrocious. There are too many trash traits and items. And randomness is neither fair nor rewarding. And you know all this first-hand. So why keep throwing yourself at the mercy of this broken system, esp. if you're not enjoying it?
Says the person who has characters who heavily relies on vMA weapons
Anyhow some of us are competitive trial players who already done or chooses to skip the causal gameplay settings. ZOS made it so that we must have these weapons to Increase our overall DPS status. Most popular HIGH DPS builds requires vMA sharpen weapons to give out maximum performance.
Most guilds won't even let you toggle along for veteran trials (Especially vMOL) without doing some sort of DPS Test to prove that you're holding your own weight.
The are best for a reason. It's not like everyone is supposed to have access to everything and right the same "best" build. Give out maximum performance with whatever you have, that's what makes you a great player.You're not one of them (your post history makes this abundantly clear), so why do you speak as if you were?
REKTraidentenshu_ESO wrote: »What do you mean that I'm not one of them? You base this off of my previous post? How? So far I've done vSO - HM, vHRC -HM and did vAA.... hopefully I'll do HM soon enough. My name has been on the leaderboard a few times now, and received gold items in my mailbox as a result of my name still sticking by the end of the week.
Lol you just proved his point.
[quote="KoshkaMurka;3628774"
I know a few people who farm this arena since Orsinium release and put multiple characters on leaderboard... And have 0 sharpened inferno staves.
And yes, this is insane and this is why it needs to be fixed. Some guys in ZOS just like to troll us it seems.
Of course there are people who claim that "you dont really need these weapons blah blah" but what about people who already invested a lot of time into vMA? Imo they deserve their rewards, and being screwed by rng sucks big time.
P.S. My own sharp destro took me ~100 runs which seemed like forever. I feel bad for people who did 500 or more without good drops.
[/quote]
Why? They aren't entitled to anything just because they put a lot of time/effort in. That loot is supposed to be rare. It's fine. Besides, if they can put multiple characters on the leaderboards, then they don't need those weapons anyway, they already dps more than most players on respective classes.0 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
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I voted on that poll but Yea ESO hate players like us.Edited by Jaronking on December 26, 2016 12:30AM1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
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Why? They aren't entitled to anything just because they put a lot of time/effort in. That loot is supposed to be rare. It's fine. Besides, if they can put multiple characters on the leaderboards, then they don't need those weapons anyway, they already dps more than most players on respective classes.
No, people should be able to work towards their goals and eventually achieve them. It doesnt mean that said goals should be achieved without any effort, but ALL players should have equal chances.
This current system is simply unfair, and yes, getting a perfect weapon on first run and not getting it after 1000s of hours is equally unfair.
And it doesnt matter that theyre already good players. Current vMA loot system is so bad that people are quitting the game to play freaking Korean grind simulators - and that already says a lot.
And yes, difficult content must be rewarding. Many people dont even attempt vMA, just because its difficult AND unrewarding at the same time.Edited by LadyNalcarya on December 26, 2016 12:33AMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU5 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »
Why? They aren't entitled to anything just because they put a lot of time/effort in. That loot is supposed to be rare. It's fine. Besides, if they can put multiple characters on the leaderboards, then they don't need those weapons anyway, they already dps more than most players on respective classes.
No, people should be able to work towards their goals and eventually achieve them. It doesnt mean that said goals should be achieved without any effort, but ALL players should have equal chances.
This current system is simply unfair, and yes, getting a perfect weapon on first run and not getting it after 1000s of hours is equally unfair.
And it doesnt matter that theyre already good players. Current vMA loot system is so bad that people are quitting the game to play freaking Korean grind simulators - and that already says a lot.
And yes, difficult content must be rewarding. Many people dont even attempt vMA, just because its difficult AND unrewarding at the same time.
No if you want to work towards the goals and achieve them, do it IRL. Games are about the process, not the destination.
How is the current system unfair if it meets your requirement. ALL players have equal chances to get weapons. That's the whole point of RNG. Some are luckier than others, but before the dice are rolled - everyone has equal chances.
Yes it says a lot about those players, not about ESO. And it shouldn't matter that they are good players. ALL players should have equal chances, just like you said.
It's okay, no one forces them. They don't need to complete it if it's not fun for them. It's a SOLO content. Therefore, it doesn't matter that they won't do it. In fact, it's even better because that means more players to group with for group content.Hey @Artis I have a question have you completed VMa?
Yes I have.1 -
JKith✭✭✭Those who say don't play vMA anymore as a solution?,.. sorry but that is not a solution.
Current BiS for Stamina DPS is Maelstrom Daggers and arguably BiS staff for Magicka is Maelstrom Staff.
Completing vMA is a feat in itself. And deserves a good reward. Not this garbage!!
Saying it's rare and should be hard to get is not a logical solution either, because this isn't hard to get, it's borderline impossible, unrealistic and impractical. 500+ runs and still no reward? INSANE... period.
Hard to get would be having to compete vMA 10-50 times. That would be hard to get. And IMO would be an acceptable grind,.. but literally 500+ runs? Or even hundred of runs?? Not acceptable.
We need a solution so people don't feel taken advantage of by this and can play the game in a reasonable way. I for one, am just starting the grind and feel trolled by this, can't imagine those who have spent these hundreds and hundreds of runs with nothing....
Possible solution is
1: A token system so no matter how much garbage you get you can turn in your drop for a token so 50 runs guarantees you the weapon you want. (Similar to crown crate tokens)
2: Pick of weapon like fighters guild quest line. You pick a staff and only a staff will drop for example. Trait and type will be RNG.
3: Drop only good traits.
@ZOS_GinaBruno5 -
Waseem✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS can make veteran maelstrom arena drops good in 1 hour in the office, they just dont give a ***
why would you spend 1000 hours pushing it then? its not for you decide, and its like going against the odds
and lets be serious here, you waste your time of going against the odds in a video game?PC EU0 -
Waseem✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS can make veteran maelstrom arena drops good in 1 hour in the office, they just dont give a ***
why would you spend 1000 hours pushing it then? its not for you decide, and its like going against the odds
and lets be serious here, you waste your time of going against the odds in a video game?PC EU0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Those who say don't play vMA anymore as a solution?,.. sorry but that is not a solution.
Current BiS for Stamina DPS is Maelstrom Daggers and arguably BiS staff for Magicka is Maelstrom Staff.
Completing vMA is a feat in itself. And deserves a good reward. Not this garbage!!
Saying it's rare and should be hard to get is not a logical solution either, because this isn't hard to get, it's borderline impossible, unrealistic and impractical. 500+ runs and still no reward? INSANE... period.
Hard to get would be having to compete vMA 10-50 times. That would be hard to get. And IMO would be an acceptable grind,.. but literally 500+ runs? Or even hundred of runs?? Not acceptable.
We need a solution so people don't feel taken advantage of by this and can play the game in a reasonable way. I for one, am just starting the grind and feel trolled by this, can't imagine those who have spent these hundreds and hundreds of runs with nothing....
Possible solution is
1: A token system so no matter how much garbage you get you can turn in your drop for a token so 50 runs guarantees you the weapon you want. (Similar to crown crate tokens)
2: Pick of weapon like fighters guild quest line. You pick a staff and only a staff will drop for example. Trait and type will be RNG.
3: Drop only good traits.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
So don't run bis. It's not like everyone is supposed to run bis setup, then might as well just not have gear at all? Or hand everything to everyone. Go play on PTS if all you care about is numbers? You probably can get any gear you want there for testing purposes.
You do have reward for completing vMA. The title and 50 achievement points. You aren't supposed to get reward for absolutely every clear. No one is forcing you to do it. That gear was never meant to be farmed. The ideology is - run if it's fun for you, some lucky players will get bis weapons which are supposed to be rare.
Don't start the grind then. Or if you start it - don't complain. You know the odds in advance. If you don't get what you want in 500 runs it's no one's fault but your own.
0 -
JKith✭✭✭So don't run bis. It's not like everyone is supposed to run bis setup, then might as well just not have gear at all? Or hand everything to everyone. Go play on PTS if all you care about is numbers? You probably can get any gear you want there for testing purposes.
You do have reward for completing vMA. The title and 50 achievement points. You aren't supposed to get reward for absolutely every clear. No one is forcing you to do it. That gear was never meant to be farmed. The ideology is - run if it's fun for you, some lucky players will get bis weapons which are supposed to be rare.
Don't start the grind then. Or if you start it - don't complain. You know the odds in advance. If you don't get what you want in 500 runs it's no one's fault but your own.
Sorry, but i'm not following your logic at all... you're just fanning my flames...I don't even see one good point in your post.
-You're saying don't run BiS is a solution? How is that even remotely a solution.....
-Why do you bring up not having gear? Doesn't makes sense.
-Your PTS comment...who said anything about caring only about numbers. And really? go on the PTS is what you're suggesting? You're just trolling me at this point.
-The title and 50 achievement points is barely a reward, it just shows that you completed the content.
-And why can't I complain? again,.. doesn't make sense to me buddy,.. sorry. This is a forum. If you're adamant about not complaining then don't complain that i'm complaining!
Bottom line is: RNG in vMA is unreasonable. I'm voicing my opinion, i'm not the only one who feels this way. If one wishes to get vMA weapons, it's unreasonable. However futile it is, since i'm in the thick of my rage, i'm going to try my best to contribute to a change. If vMA has taught me anthing is to not give up!! haha!
6 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Imo one of the core failures is rhe inward nature of traits. Traits improve your crit chance, your spell/wpn dmg, your pen, your healing done, etc. They all turn into a fairly insular exercise in math to get highest numbers which inevitably results in one sonetimes two BIS options for the vast majority of builds and circumstances.
What is needed imo us a change, not just numbers, to the trait scheme to create a situation where:
No trait is best everywhere that matters.
Every trait is best somewhere that matters.
If that is achieved every piece has value, no decon trash unless you already have plenty.
So looking at dps one answer for weapons is to have say a baseline:
Powered increases weapons damage (and derived spell/wpn) by ABC
Holy inc dmg by double ABC vs undead
Silvered inc dmg by dbl ABC vs WW
Blessed in dbl ABC vs elemental
Etc
So against any given foe one weapon trait will be best, powered will be second best, others will be last and that will change enemy by enemy.
For armors same deal but against different damage types inc aoe dot etc.
This turns different content, different challenges and the external factors into the main determinants for whats best right now.
Every drop matters, or at least more than they do now.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
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No if you want to work towards the goals and achieve them, do it IRL.
If you want to gamble, go to casino, amirite?
Games are about the process, not the destination.
True, and for some players it includes optimizing their characters, trying all possible setups etc. You have no rights to decide what should be fun for them and what shouldnt.How is the current system unfair if it meets your requirement. ALL players have equal chances to get weapons. That's the whole point of RNG. Some are luckier than others, but before the dice are rolled - everyone has equal chances.
And its not "equal" chances. It would seem equal if you would assume that a player would do an infinite number of runs, but its not physically possible, not even for nolifers. Besides, nothing in this game require this amount of grind - nothing but weapons, and this is a technical flaw caused by number of possible combos. Here's a more detailed explanation. So, with all those traits (most of which cant be used in any way possible), chances of getting a "good" combination are extremely low. This is not the case for armor - you can trade it in dungeons/trials, craft it or buy it. This is not the case for jewelry (for example, I know some people in a guild that cleared vMoL recently and now everyone in their "main" group has golden jewelry sets). This is only the case for weapons, simply because of the number of possible traits. So why the weapons (and monster shoulders) should require insane grinds?Yes it says a lot about those players, not about ESO. And it shouldn't matter that they are good players. ALL players should have equal chances, just like you said.
No, it says a lot about short-sighted developer's decisions. Games are supposed to be fun, and even on these forums majority of players are unhappy with the current loot system. The problem is here, you cant deny it.
So why do you think its more "fair" to have a system where some random players win and some are essentialy screwed? Implementing a token system would make players truly equal - everyone would be able to get BiS gear eventually. Of course, those lucky people who always drop perfect items on their first try would need to spend a bit more time - but hey, why are they entitled to get everything on the first try?
There are other ways to keep people busy. For example, ZOS added those flower parcels to IC vendor, and that made IC profitable (and alive) once again.
Its solo content that happens to drop BiS items for group content. Also... If you dont want these weapons/dont care about minmaxing, then why does it even matter for you personally? vMA token system wouldnt be able to affect your gameplay, but it would make a lot of players happy.It's okay, no one forces them. They don't need to complete it if it's not fun for them. It's a SOLO content. Therefore, it doesn't matter that they won't do it. In fact, it's even better because that means more players to group with for group content.Edited by LadyNalcarya on December 26, 2016 5:03AMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU4 -
SublimeSparo✭✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »
Why? They aren't entitled to anything just because they put a lot of time/effort in. That loot is supposed to be rare. It's fine. Besides, if they can put multiple characters on the leaderboards, then they don't need those weapons anyway, they already dps more than most players on respective classes.
No, people should be able to work towards their goals and eventually achieve them. It doesnt mean that said goals should be achieved without any effort, but ALL players should have equal chances.
This current system is simply unfair, and yes, getting a perfect weapon on first run and not getting it after 1000s of hours is equally unfair.
And it doesnt matter that theyre already good players. Current vMA loot system is so bad that people are quitting the game to play freaking Korean grind simulators - and that already says a lot.
And yes, difficult content must be rewarding. Many people dont even attempt vMA, just because its difficult AND unrewarding at the same time.
No if you want to work towards the goals and achieve them, do it IRL. Games are about the process, not the destination.
How is the current system unfair if it meets your requirement. ALL players have equal chances to get weapons. That's the whole point of RNG. Some are luckier than others, but before the dice are rolled - everyone has equal chances.
Yes it says a lot about those players, not about ESO. And it shouldn't matter that they are good players. ALL players should have equal chances, just like you said.
It's okay, no one forces them. They don't need to complete it if it's not fun for them. It's a SOLO content. Therefore, it doesn't matter that they won't do it. In fact, it's even better because that means more players to group with for group content.Hey @Artis I have a question have you completed VMa?
Yes I have.
But the trouble is the fact it can be near impossible for some to get their BiS weapons and it puts them at an unfair disadvantage in other parts of the game.
Ie assuming equal skill levels a raid team with BiS vMA weapons will always outperform a team without them, how is that even remotely 'fair'?
It took 1 year of farming, including multiple regular leaderboards and double drops to even get 1 single Sharpened offensive weapon and it was a bow, a backbar weapon. In all that time and a few runs after I have 2 sharpened mauls, 1 bow, 1 resto, From over 1 year grinding, it's ridiculous.PS4 EU CP900. PS4 NA CP600,
vAA HM ☆ vHRC HM ☆ vSO HM ☆ vMOL
4th Console vMOL clear,
vMA cleared on all classes stam & magic
My TribeEU
High Sparo - Altmer - mSo DD.
Wood Sparo - Bosmer - sNB DD
Nord Sparo - Nord -sDK DD/Tank.
Bubble Girl - Imperial -sTe DD
Succubus Sue - Breton - mNB Tank.
Andrana Stormlock - Altmer - mTe Healer/ DD
Elvali Marvani - Dunmer - mDK DD.
Venemus Draconem - Redguard - sDK DD
Jayri Leki - Redguard - sSo DD.
Miss Jabsalot - Altmer - mTe PvP DD/ Tank
Mireli Hlaano - Dunmer - mNB DD.
Ms Shanks - Redguard - sNB DD/ le bank
NA
Dilemma Dame - Altmer - mDK DD
Stamsorc Kitty - Redguard - sSor DD
Aia Draconis - Imperial - sDK Tank
Decides-Who-Lives - Argonian - mTe Healer
You wont stop me - Altmer - mSo DD
Stab in the dark - Khajiit - sNB DD
Jabjabjab Beambeambeam - Dunmer - mTe DD
Spatium Auxiliarus - Imperial - hTe Tank&bank
Spectre - Altmer - mNB DD
Can't-Main-Tank -Argonian - sDK offTank3 -
f047ys3v3n✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dev's seem to be addressing the whole drop gear weapon issue in general very slowly. Whether it is the 1/144 chance for the vMA staff, the 1/a very large number for an infal staff or moondancer staff, the 1/another very large number for the masters inferno (also a good back bar on a vMA staff build), or the 1/ yet another unbelievable number for your BSW staff, it is all crazy. Weapons only drop from chests and last bosses so they drop less and not long ago it was jewelry only from last bosses and weapons or armor everywhere else so they deliberately made it worse (my infal sharp is from the first boss of vHR).
I am not sure what the issue is but the drop rates are demonstrably terrible and totally unreasonable and this coming from a guy with: 1 sharp vMA inferno (6th run 2nd during Wrothgar event), 1 sharp vDSA inferno (7th run after update farming for resto staves), and 1 sharp infal staff (random vHR hard mode attempt that failed anyway).Edited by f047ys3v3n on December 26, 2016 7:29AMI am currently worried for the future of ESO. Population seems like it is in free fall and the cancellation of the North America in-person gathering feels very much like pulling the plug. Kudos on fixing the in-game economy though. Clearly whatever gold shenanigans were happening the last couple years are fixed.3 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭So don't run bis. It's not like everyone is supposed to run bis setup, then might as well just not have gear at all? Or hand everything to everyone. Go play on PTS if all you care about is numbers? You probably can get any gear you want there for testing purposes.
You do have reward for completing vMA. The title and 50 achievement points. You aren't supposed to get reward for absolutely every clear. No one is forcing you to do it. That gear was never meant to be farmed. The ideology is - run if it's fun for you, some lucky players will get bis weapons which are supposed to be rare.
Don't start the grind then. Or if you start it - don't complain. You know the odds in advance. If you don't get what you want in 500 runs it's no one's fault but your own.
Sorry, but i'm not following your logic at all... you're just fanning my flames...I don't even see one good point in your post.
-You're saying don't run BiS is a solution? How is that even remotely a solution.....
-Why do you bring up not having gear? Doesn't makes sense.
-Your PTS comment...who said anything about caring only about numbers. And really? go on the PTS is what you're suggesting? You're just trolling me at this point.
-The title and 50 achievement points is barely a reward, it just shows that you completed the content.
-And why can't I complain? again,.. doesn't make sense to me buddy,.. sorry. This is a forum. If you're adamant about not complaining then don't complain that i'm complaining!
Bottom line is: RNG in vMA is unreasonable. I'm voicing my opinion, i'm not the only one who feels this way. If one wishes to get vMA weapons, it's unreasonable. However futile it is, since i'm in the thick of my rage, i'm going to try my best to contribute to a change. If vMA has taught me anthing is to not give up!! haha!
- It's not a solution, it's to show that there's no problem in the first place. Not everyone is supposed to run bis, otherwise it wouldn't be bis and we might as well play an fps or moba.
- yes it does. If everyone runs the same gear, might as well put the zero level there and have no gear at all.
- no, I'm just telling you to decide if you care about numbers or about playing. You are not entitled to both. If it's about numbers you could go to pts where you can use any gear. If it's not - then just play and don't worry about 1 item.
- yes and it's the reward. everything else - is just an opportunity for lucky ones to get some extra. If you don't like the reward - don't run the content. It's not like someone is forcing you.
- I won't complain if you stop complaining.
Bottomline is - you are selfish and don't care about what's good for the game. You just want the gear for yourself and it doesn't bother you that everyone among endgame players will exactly the same gear and build and won't think how to perform well with what they have access to.
RNG is reasonable, because vMA has no cooldowns and you can hypothetically run it multiple times a day. If one wishes to get vMA weapons it's his personal problem. He's not entitled to have them and they are supposed to be rare = someone won't have them. You got the piece of content to play if it's fun for you. If it's not, don't play it.
If one wishes to get ashes of a'lar in wow he's screwed too with very low drop rate and 1-week cooldown. That's the whole point. Rare items are rare. If everyone had them, if they were guaranteed, then they wouldn't be rare and significant.
yes, that too.KoshkaMurka wrote: »
If you want to gamble, go to casino, amirite?KoshkaMurka wrote: »
True, and for some players it includes optimizing their characters, trying all possible setups etc. You have no rights to decide what should be fun for them and what shouldnt.
Ok, perfect. So with this rng you can still be in the process of optimizing. So it's a win-win. Otherwise you'd have everything and optimized your character and then what?KoshkaMurka wrote: »
And its not "equal" chances. It would seem equal if you would assume that a player would do an infinite number of runs, but its not physically possible, not even for nolifers. Besides, nothing in this game require this amount of grind - nothing but weapons, and this is a technical flaw caused by number of possible combos. Here's a more detailed explanation. So, with all those traits (most of which cant be used in any way possible), chances of getting a "good" combination are extremely low. This is not the case for armor - you can trade it in dungeons/trials, craft it or buy it. This is not the case for jewelry (for example, I know some people in a guild that cleared vMoL recently and now everyone in their "main" group has golden jewelry sets). This is only the case for weapons, simply because of the number of possible traits. So why the weapons (and monster shoulders) should require insane grinds?
It is. Everyone has equal chances to loot a certain item on each run. That also means that some people will and some people won't get them. But a-priori the chances are equal. That's how probabilities work. I mean come on, just pick up a textbook.
No, that's a flaw, it's a feature. If you are a magicka dps, you want an inferno staff. If you are a dualwielder - you want 1 handers etc. If you want a certain type and trait of an inferno staff or a 1hander - that is your personal problem. The odds to loot every type of weapons are equal. The odds to loot any trait are equal. In fact, the drop rate of sharpened has to be nerfed according to the data other players collected.
And yes, weapons are more rare than armor pieces. It's okay. Something has to be rare. It used to be jewelry, now it's weapons. So what?
The game is fun. People are playing it and even run vMA. Fun has nothing to do with the loot system.KoshkaMurka wrote: »No, it says a lot about short-sighted developer's decisions. Games are supposed to be fun, and even on these forums majority of players are unhappy with the current loot system. The problem is here, you cant deny it.
So why do you think its more "fair" to have a system where some random players win and some are essentialy screwed? Implementing a token system would make players truly equal - everyone would be able to get BiS gear eventually. Of course, those lucky people who always drop perfect items on their first try would need to spend a bit more time - but hey, why are they entitled to get everything on the first try?
There are other ways to keep people busy. For example, ZOS added those flower parcels to IC vendor, and that made IC profitable (and alive) once again.
And why do you think it's fair that in a month or whatever everyone will have bis gear and there will be nothing rare and significant? You want them to increase the CP lvl of gear and restart the whole grind? No thanks.
And of course every sane person is absolutely against having bis gear for tokens. Tokens are to catch up and get some gear that allows you to do the current content. In this game it's not needed. You can craft and buy stuff and be fine and complete everything.
Yes, good point. So they need to add undaunted plunder or something to vMA so it's profittable.
Because I care about the game, and having something rare and powerful is good. If I wanted to play a moba, i'd play a moba. Diversity of builds is good. Not everyone is supposed to run the same thing - that would affect my gameplay and make the game boring. Besides, when I get a weapon I want it to be significant and matter something. To know that wow it's awesome that I got something not many people have. And by "I" I meant an abstract player here.KoshkaMurka wrote: »Its solo content that happens to drop BiS items for group content. Also... If you dont want these weapons/dont care about minmaxing, then why does it even matter for you personally? vMA token system wouldnt be able to affect your gameplay, but it would make a lot of players happy.
Also, if everyone can easily get it with tokens, it will become new standard and requirement for every group = people will be forced to run vma to get those tokens. It's another consequence I'm against.SublimeSparo wrote: »
But the trouble is the fact it can be near impossible for some to get their BiS weapons and it puts them at an unfair disadvantage in other parts of the game.
Ie assuming equal skill levels a raid team with BiS vMA weapons will always outperform a team without them, how is that even remotely 'fair'?
It took 1 year of farming, including multiple regular leaderboards and double drops to even get 1 single Sharpened offensive weapon and it was a bow, a backbar weapon. In all that time and a few runs after I have 2 sharpened mauls, 1 bow, 1 resto, From over 1 year grinding, it's ridiculous.
There's no such thing as equal skill. That never happened. And the group setup, buffs/debuffs, skill, combat RNG, ping - the combination of those things outweigh whatever possible benefit of vma weapons you can get.
It's fine, every group is in the same conditions and not everyone runs those weapons. It's good. They are supposed to be rare. zos said it when vdsa was released, that that was the point of master weapons. everyone knew it in advance that they are rare and how rng works. It's weird that now they are surprised they can't reliably farm them - as if it wasn't intended.
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LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
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Ok, perfect. So with this rng you can still be in the process of optimizing. So it's a win-win. Otherwise you'd have everything and optimized your character and then what?
Mind you, I dont have anything against some elements of rng. But the situation when some people get BiS items after one run, some have to do 100-200 and some never get it despite all efforts is just wrong.
Then what? Then there are new dlcs and new content, as well as better trial scores etc.
And optimization is important for that. There's always a room for improvements, but being stuck at trying to get certain gear piece is simply demotivating.
The worst part is that there's no way to improve the situation, no matter how good you are as a player. Grinding is fine when you can see the end of it - but in this case, you dont know if you'll ever get the item you're farming for.
The game is fun. People are playing it and even run vMA. Fun has nothing to do with the loot system.
And why do you think it's fair that in a month or whatever everyone will have bis gear and there will be nothing rare and significant? You want them to increase the CP lvl of gear and restart the whole grind? No thanks.
And of course every sane person is absolutely against having bis gear for tokens. Tokens are to catch up and get some gear that allows you to do the current content. In this game it's not needed. You can craft and buy stuff and be fine and complete everything.
No it does. A game should encourage people to participate different activities (and buy dlcs/pay for subscribtion of course!). And if some aspects of the game make so many people unhappy, then it is a problem, since those people are paying customers.
And sorry to burst your bubble, but I dont think that luck makes you (or anyone) "cool", or "special", or "significant". It is not an achievement you've made, its just something random.
So as a "sane" person, do you have any logical arguments why one person should be more powerful than another just because RNGesus was on their side?
It looks like you dont really understand how token systems work (or could work). It doesnt mean that everyone will get everything in one day. It would just equalize the time it would take to get the item, so lucky people would lose their advantages, but unlucky ones wont be hopeless anymore.
As for "imminent level cap increase"... Well, why would I even comment on those straw man arguments? It will be increased eventually, yes, but is not related to vMA drops.
P.S. I find it very cute how you assumed that everyone who disagrees with you isnt "sane".
Because I care about the game, and having something rare and powerful is good. If I wanted to play a moba, i'd play a moba. Diversity of builds is good. Not everyone is supposed to run the same thing - that would affect my gameplay and make the game boring. Besides, when I get a weapon I want it to be significant and matter something. To know that wow it's awesome that I got something not many people have. And by "I" I meant an abstract player here.
Also, if everyone can easily get it with tokens, it will become new standard and requirement for every group = people will be forced to run vma to get those tokens. It's another consequence I'm against.
But why rare and powerful should be completely random?
And I agree about build diversity. But the thing is, current loot system heavily discourages it. To test the build, you need to get the items. And with these drop rates, you wont be able to farm all combinations you'd like to test, and would have to stick to meta (no one wants to farm for days just to find out that their theorycrafted setup doesnt work). As we all know, weapons with bad traits are worse than non-set items with good traits... So there's no reason to test something with them.
People who play competitively are already kinda "forced" to farm vMA, especially stam builds. Even if the extra dps from them is marginal (around 2k from inferno offbar for example), no one wants to lag behind.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU6 -
Docmandu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not sure I like a token system, but I sure as hell don't like the current system either. Maybe something to re-roll traits would be a nice compromise (and NO ZOS, I don't mean Crown Store re-roll stones for that!!).. put something like that on the Daily Random dungeon finder thingy, that would make people use it more and would prevent farming those things.
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LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not sure I like a token system, but I sure as hell don't like the current system either. Maybe something to re-roll traits would be a nice compromise (and NO ZOS, I don't mean Crown Store re-roll stones for that!!).. put something like that on the Daily Random dungeon finder thingy, that would make people use it more and would prevent farming those things.
Pretty much any option would be better than the current system.
Re-crafting items was proposed many times and would be really useful (not only for traits, being able to swap motifs would be great too). Or, for example, farming special "tokens" or "blueprints" to craft Maelstrom weapons or set items... There's a lot of possibilities.
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
Meld777✭✭✭✭✭@Artis You have a major flaw in your argumentation.
If the game is not about progress but about the process, why are there leaderboards and achievements? Why are there CP levels? Why do you need to "work" for trait research? Leaderboards is the main argument here. It encourages competition. Without leaderboards, there would be no competitive guilds. It wouldn't matter if you complete vMoL HM in 1 hour or in 20 minutes. Oh yeah, and let's talk PvP. Are you really so naive to believe that PvP is not about competition and progress to get to BiS as fast as possible to be able to compete directly against other players? If yes, then you really have no idea how a person's mind works and what keeps them doing what they do; and at which point an unfair disadvantage becomes too much.
One major flaw in your arguments is your definition of "rare". I'm not sure what it is but my definition of a rare weapon is: only few (that tried getting it!) have it. I'd say 5% should be the maximum threshold. Preferably less. What is not the definition of rare for me is that everyone has that weapon except me! That is not the definition of rare. That's the definition of We don't want YOU playing this game! Please quit!
All my competition has vMA weapons. As someone going for 1st place on the leaderboards and someone who enjoys (or used to enjoy) ESO for a long time, all people that surround me have BiS weapons. I am an exception, not the people that have the weapons! It's not the weapons that are rare, it's the system that is unfair. Almost everyone in Hodor, Aquila, Animals, Well-Fitted has BiS weapons. As I said, the people that don't have them are exceptions: Paolen in Hodor, Decado in Well-Fitted, me in Aquila, etc. While all of us have invested much more time into farming this arena than the others.
Also, I dare you to get to TOP 5 on vMA leaderboard without a BiS weapon.
Again: Weapons are not rare when 95% of players (who tried getting them!) have them and 5% of players (who tried getting them!) have no chance to get them. They are rare when 5% of players (who tried getting them!) have them and 95% of players (who tried getting them!) have no chance to get them.
"But how did the 95% get them if they are so hard to get?" Here is the explanation:For those that don't know it: vMA weapons were obtainable quite easily before Dark Brotherhood. Weapons only dropped in good traits and every weekly reward guaranteed you a Sharpened, Precise or Defending weapon, so 2/3 chance to get something you can use (and, honestly, Defending can be useful as well on certain weapons). That's when most end game players who have their weapons and didn't quit yet got their weapons. The others were forced to quit with Dark Brotherhood, since that's when the trait pollution was introduced. The chance for fair end-game competition was taken away that day, since desired weapons became (statistically) unobtainable to those who didn't have them yet.
Furthermore, the chances to get them overall aren't too bad. Over 60% of grinders will have a Sharpened Inferno after 144 runs (1 - (143/144)^144 ~ 63%). This is a somewhat realistic number of runs over the course of ~3 months. Over the course of 1 year, most grinders will have their weapon while only few others will be screwed. That's not the definition of rare. Again, that's the definition of Please uninstall me and play something else!, which is something most competitive players do when they realize they've fallen in the "I will be 1 out of the 30 players that will never get my weapon, no matter how much I grind" bracket.Pfffft, God still haven't got one... Really??? Is it only me that got it on my 5th run?
No, I know someone who got his Sharpened Inferno on his first clear, Sharpened Maul on second, and another Sharpened Inferno on third clear. Also, during the anniversary event, there was a guy who struggled through the arena for a year (really bad, rude and impatient player in general). He finally had his first clear during the anniversary event. He was stuck on the last boss for months, according to him, breaking all kinds of furniture around his house out of rage. Guess what he got. Sharpened Inferno + Precise Inferno. That was also the moment when I decided to install Black Desert and unsubscribe from ESO.Edited by Meld777 on December 26, 2016 12:26PMMaelstrom Arena Champion | Undaunted | Fighters Guild Victor
Level 50 Magicka NB | CP160+
nAA | vCoH1 HM | nSO | nCoA2 | nDSA | nMA | vVoM
PC EU7 -
JKith✭✭✭Bottomline is - you are selfish and don't care about what's good for the game. You just want the gear for yourself and it doesn't bother you that everyone among endgame players will exactly the same gear and build and won't think how to perform well with what they have access to.
Now you're not just dead wrong,... but also hitting below the belt for no good reason.......6 -
JKith✭✭✭@Meld777 very good points all around. You did a much better job of explaining the problem than I did. Also good job of debunking some of the counter arguments that don't make sense or as you put it "are flawed"KoshkaMurka wrote: »
It looks like you dont really understand how token systems work (or could work). It doesnt mean that everyone will get everything in one day. It would just equalize the time it would take to get the item, so lucky people would lose their advantages, but unlucky ones wont be hopeless anymore.
I like your explaination here, not that it's the only possible solution, but tokens equalize and balance things so that the percentage of people that get "screwed" can eventually get the drops if that is what they are aiming for. Becoming a long grind as opposed to an impossibility.
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Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »
Mind you, I dont have anything against some elements of rng. But the situation when some people get BiS items after one run, some have to do 100-200 and some never get it despite all efforts is just wrong.
Then what? Then there are new dlcs and new content, as well as better trial scores etc. And optimization is important for that. There's always a room for improvements, but being stuck at trying to get certain gear piece is simply demotivating.
The worst part is that there's no way to improve the situation, no matter how good you are as a player. Grinding is fine when you can see the end of it - but in this case, you dont know if you'll ever get the item you're farming for.
It's not wrong. How else will you maintain the rarity in the game where endgame dungeons have no cooldown and at the same time don't make those dungeons too hard for people to complete? Would you prefer vMA and trials to only be accessible once a week like raids in wow?
New DLCs and new content won't make the existing content irrelevant, I thought zos made it clear with their actions already. As well as the fact that new content doesn't come out too often.
Yeah but you ARE NOT supposed to grind/farm those weapons. IF you are doing this knowing the rules in advance, then you have no one but yourself to be mad at.KoshkaMurka wrote: »No it does. A game should encourage people to participate different activities (and buy dlcs/pay for subscribtion of course!). And if some aspects of the game make so many people unhappy, then it is a problem, since those people are paying customers.
And sorry to burst your bubble, but I dont think that luck makes you (or anyone) "cool", or "special", or "significant". It is not an achievement you've made, its just something random.
So as a "sane" person, do you have any logical arguments why one person should be more powerful than another just because RNGesus was on their side?
It looks like you dont really understand how token systems work (or could work). It doesnt mean that everyone will get everything in one day. It would just equalize the time it would take to get the item, so lucky people would lose their advantages, but unlucky ones wont be hopeless anymore.
As for "imminent level cap increase"... Well, why would I even comment on those straw man arguments? It will be increased eventually, yes, but is not related to vMA drops.
P.S. I find it very cute how you assumed that everyone who disagrees with you isnt "sane".
Nope, that's the point. The faster people get loot from a certain DLC, the faster they will cancel their sub. So the endless grind is a better solution financially. I don't know why you think that they didn't calculate everything and didn't see that they make more money out of people who don't cancel subs than lose money on crybabies who quit the game (and probably didn't pay all that much anyway). Remember, that it's 20% customers that bring 80% income (or 1% and 99%? something like that).
You aren't bursting anyone's bubble, you are just ranting and complaining, which looks pathetic. Why? Because he was lucky to find something. It's the fantasy universe. Stuff like that happens all the time. Bilbo found Sting and One Ring due to pure luck. You went to the arena and killed the boss. You took whatever weapon he had today. It could be a precise bow or a defending mace. It doesn't and shouldn't depend on you in any way.
But the main point here - a person doesn't become more powerful than another person just because of the item. Skill, RNG, ping etc mean way more. Besides, someone can use that slot for 1 more set bonus and make up for the difference if not gain even more. On the other hand, why shouldn't a person with worse skill/ping get any help not to be too bad compared to others, to the point where all good groups won't be happy with his numbers at all.
And yes, that's exactly what it means. Tokens = everyone has it within finite period of time. Lucky people had no advantages.Everyone had the same chances. Someone just found one trait and someone found another one. Just the fact that you say "time to get them" implies that everyone who wants them will get them. And that's exactly what will lead to everyone in end-game having them.
p.s. It's not an assumption, it's a statement of fact.KoshkaMurka wrote: »But why rare and powerful should be completely random?
And I agree about build diversity. But the thing is, current loot system heavily discourages it. To test the build, you need to get the items. And with these drop rates, you wont be able to farm all combinations you'd like to test, and would have to stick to meta (no one wants to farm for days just to find out that their theorycrafted setup doesnt work). As we all know, weapons with bad traits are worse than non-set items with good traits... So there's no reason to test something with them.
People who play competitively are already kinda "forced" to farm vMA, especially stam builds. Even if the extra dps from them is marginal (around 2k from inferno offbar for example), no one wants to lag behind.
Why shouldn't it be?
It's a game with no cooldowns. It's either random with low drop rate or in a months or two everyone on leaderboards has it and others have no chance against them and never will.
Oh no, it encourages testing and cooperation. One player test someone, another one tests something else. It's not like one player is supposed to have absolutely all gear and test all sets and combinations.
Well, it's their personal problem if they are already on top, but still aren't happy. Also, again, all of them are in equal conditions. And why are they entitled to have the weapons? No one wants to lag behind? Well someone has to. It's better than everyone having the same thing. Or go ahead and explain how should it be handled to stay rare. Or maybe everything should just be crafted? Or mailed to every player - because the result would be the same as if they added tokens - everyone will have it.KoshkaMurka wrote: »Not sure I like a token system, but I sure as hell don't like the current system either. Maybe something to re-roll traits would be a nice compromise (and NO ZOS, I don't mean Crown Store re-roll stones for that!!).. put something like that on the Daily Random dungeon finder thingy, that would make people use it more and would prevent farming those things.
Pretty much any option would be better than the current system.
Re-crafting items was proposed many times and would be really useful (not only for traits, being able to swap motifs would be great too). Or, for example, farming special "tokens" or "blueprints" to craft Maelstrom weapons or set items... There's a lot of possibilities.
That is the same as tokens and will lead to the same result. Weapons will be farmable. And everything farmable is owned by everyone eventually.
No, I don't.And yes, if you all care just about leaderboards spot, then you all probably won't use all bis gear. So why don't you do it on pts where it's easy to get it@Artis You have a major flaw in your argumentation.
And yes, your definition of rare is exactly what happens. It's not everyone except for you. It's 5%. And you are the part of 95%. WHy is it so hard to accept? I mean, with 95% probability that's where you end up. The rest is just rant that I won't address.Bottomline is - you are selfish and don't care about what's good for the game. You just want the gear for yourself and it doesn't bother you that everyone among endgame players will exactly the same gear and build and won't think how to perform well with what they have access to.
Now you're not just dead wrong,... but also hitting below the belt for no good reason.......
Not at all. It's exactly what follows from your comment. You don't care about keeping them rare. You just want to have them easier.Edited by Artis on December 26, 2016 6:40PM0 -
JKith✭✭✭
Not at all. It's exactly what follows from your comment. You don't care about keeping them rare. You just want to have them easier.
Completely wrong there buddy. Even if I were to have them on my first run I would still be complaining. I'm thinking about the game as a whole and others, not selfish. You still do not understand the big picture we're putting forth. I'll try to explain it one more time then I give up.
For those who enjoy the aspect of the game that includes leaderboards, competition, trials, DPS numbers etc... vMA weapons are a must have. Everyone should be able to get them so that these aspects of the game are fair and dependant on a person's skill. If I were to give the same build to two different people they would get very different results because of their skill. If a percentage of people are gimped because of a bad loot system, the whole aspect of that area of the game is broken because it doesn't matter how good you are, you will lose. That is not competition, that is luck of the draw. For some it will take longer, or others shorter to farm weapons and i'm not advocating it be easy, but at least doable.
Okay i'm done, If you don't understand by now it's hopeless.
Edited by JKith on December 26, 2016 7:15PM5 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭frfr @Artis your post sounds like someone who is very childish and don't want anyone else to have your shiny toy because if anyone else get it you won't feel like a special snowflake.Or that you feel if they get it they will be better than you.
Also if your going for leader boards you need everyone to run BIS that's why its called BIS really dude what the hell is wrong with you.Edited by Jaronking on December 26, 2016 7:09PM4 -
Meld777✭✭✭✭✭And yes, your definition of rare is exactly what happens. It's not everyone except for you. It's 5%. And you are the part of 95%. WHy is it so hard to accept? I mean, with 95% probability that's where you end up. The rest is just rant that I won't address.
Except I am part of the 5%. And 95% have the weapon in my gaming environment, the people I compete with. And if you don't agree that the Dark Brotherhood move by ZOS completely ruined vMA drops and any rarity that could mean anything, then I don't see how your arguments could mean anything. You base everything on equal chances for everyone. Sorry, that's not the case. The vast majority of current end game players got BiS weapons before DB when they were easy to get. And now people that came later and want to compete are screwed.
And if you think vMA weapons don't matter and there are decent alternatives, take a magicka class with a Sharp Inferno and one without, run vMA, you'll see the score difference. Yes, not everyone is supposed to have them. But if everyone in your environment has them, and you're "base-handicapped", that doesn't make you feel great about the game.
You play for casual fun? That's fine. I've done competitive sports. Yes, some people were doing it for fun. I was doing it for the medal. Same thing for games. Some are into RP, others into competition. But if the state suddenly decided that everyone can play with a tennis racket while I have to use a frying pan, and every time I go to a store they tell me, "No, I won't sell you a tennis racket, only a frying pan! Try again later. Thank you for the money.", I'd be pretty pissed. Especially if in the tournament I'm in, out of 20 people, I'm the only one playing with a frying pan.
@Artis All you're telling people is, "Don't be competitive! Just have fun!" But that's not human nature. No reward - no progress. No competition - no progress. In communism, you get the same pay no matter how much effort you invest. Everyone is equal. How did that turn out for SU? Empty stores, zero progress, and news anchors using electric shavers as microphones to act like Russia has already invented wireless mics, while all they were doing was manually adding picture and sound to not look bad in front of the US.
Competition has to be fair. Competition in ESO isn't fair. If you think there shouldn't be any competition at all, then you're arguing against human nature and drive for progress.Edited by Meld777 on December 26, 2016 7:17PMMaelstrom Arena Champion | Undaunted | Fighters Guild Victor
Level 50 Magicka NB | CP160+
nAA | vCoH1 HM | nSO | nCoA2 | nDSA | nMA | vVoM
PC EU3 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've never heard anyone from ZOS ever mention that 2H weapons were going to count for 2 item slots. It probably will never happen. Stop spreading misinformation guys.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
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Not at all. It's exactly what follows from your comment. You don't care about keeping them rare. You just want to have them easier.
Completely wrong there buddy. Even if I were to have them on my first run I would still be complaining. I'm thinking about the game as a whole and others, not selfish. You still do not understand the big picture we're putting forth. I'll try to explain it one more time then I give up.
For those who enjoy the aspect of the game that includes leaderboards, competition, trials, DPS numbers etc... vMA weapons are a must have. Everyone should be able to get them so that these aspects of the game are fair and dependant on a person's skill. If I were to give the same build to two different people they would get very different results because of their skill. If a percentage of people are gimped because of a bad loot system, the whole aspect of that area of the game is broken because it doesn't matter how good you are, you will lose. That is not competition, that is luck of the draw. For some it will take longer, or others shorter to farm weapons and i'm not advocating it be easy, but at least doable.
Okay i'm done, If you don't understand by now it's hopeless.
In which universe? I already told you at least 2 consequences we'll have it bis loot is based on tokens. And you aren't offering any arguments. Just whining that the current system is bad. But not suggesting anything that makes it good. If you just change the loot system under current conditions it will make things much worse and everyone will have the same thing in the endgame.
Ahaha hopeless? You are the one hopeless. If you want the results to depend only on skill, go play chess or mobas or shooters. It's an MMO. Is it your first MMO or something? And in MMO things ALWAYS depended on gear and progression. The competition was NEVER just about skill. Name one successful western MMO(you're only choosing from the list with 1 name right now) where it wasn't the case.
Don't tell me that players who are all about competition - and if they are on top then they are likely experienced and it's not their first competition - didn't know how MMOs work. But still went to play this one? And now complaining that thing work the way they always knew they worked? Plllleasee. Then they are the source of their own problem.
And why should everyone be able to run exactly the same gear setup again please? Omg this entitled generation..frfr @Artis your post sounds like someone who is very childish and don't want anyone else to have your shiny toy because if anyone else get it you won't feel like a special snowflake.Or that you feel if they get it they will be better than you.
Also if your going for leader boards you need everyone to run BIS that's why its called BIS really dude what the hell is wrong with you.
Yeah it's also called bis because it's bis = absolutely best =- it's something to look up to, nto something to grind within finite period of time.And yes, your definition of rare is exactly what happens. It's not everyone except for you. It's 5%. And you are the part of 95%. WHy is it so hard to accept? I mean, with 95% probability that's where you end up. The rest is just rant that I won't address.
Except I am part of the 5%. And 95% have the weapon in my gaming environment, the people I compete with. And if you don't agree that the Dark Brotherhood move by ZOS completely ruined vMA drops and any rarity that could mean anything, then I don't see how your arguments could mean anything. You base everything on equal chances for everyone. Sorry, that's not the case. The vast majority of current end game players got BiS weapons before DB when they were easy to get. And now people that came later and want to compete are screwed.
And if you think vMA weapons don't matter and there are decent alternatives, take a magicka class with a Sharp Inferno and one without, run vMA, you'll see the score difference. Yes, not everyone is supposed to have them. But if everyone in your environment has them, and you're "base-handicapped", that doesn't make you feel great about the game.
You play for casual fun? That's fine. I've done competitive sports. Yes, some people were doing it for fun. I was doing it for the medal. Same thing for games. Some are into RP, others into competition. But if the state suddenly decided that everyone can play with a tennis racket while I have to use a frying pan, and every time I go to a store they tell me, "No, I won't sell you a tennis racket, only a frying pan! Try again later. Thank you for the money.", I'd be pretty pissed. Especially if in the tournament I'm in, out of 20 people, I'm the only one playing with a frying pan.
@Artis All you're telling people is, "Don't be competitive! Just have fun!" But that's not human nature. No reward - no progress. No competition - no progress. In communism, you get the same pay no matter how much effort you invest. Everyone is equal. How did that turn out for SU? Empty stores, zero progress, and news anchors using electric shavers as microphones to act like Russia has already invented wireless mics, while all they were doing was manually adding picture and sound to not look bad in front of the US.
Competition has to be fair. Competition in ESO isn't fair. If you think there shouldn't be any competition at all, then you're arguing against human nature and drive for progress.
No, you're 95%. 5% get weapons, others don't. You said you didn't get => you are 95%. So it's not everyone except for you. It's 5% and you are among 95%.
It's fine, chances were equal then and are equal now. They aren't equal now to what they used to be then. It's ok, things change. I do insist however on you showing me the math and proving that they are worse now than they used to be. Otherwise this "argument" is irrelevant.
Yes not everyone is supposed to have them. And just because you WANT to be competitive and your environment has them, it doesn't mean that you're entitled to have them. Ok - so go play something where the result depends on skill only. It's an MMORPG. Here, there are other factors. And even your analogy is flawed. Genetics is still a factor, it's not jsut about having the same rackets when one has longer arms and stuff.
No, I'm not saying don't be competitive. I'm saying if you are competing, don't pretend you didn't know the rules in advance and then whine for them to be changed because you want to compete in something that has other rules. Then go and compete in something else. The rules of MMO apply. And you know them, and knew them all along.
Play to your strengths and whatever loot you have. Find set bonuses that you can use now that you have more slots you can use for that.0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also, RNG is consistent with the lore. Just go to HRC and see for yourself.
"You have come farther than those feeble Undaunted. But you will fall just the same."
So people who have all the undaunted shoulders - multiple bis pieces too, the infinite amount of all possible trait and type combos - wipe on the first trash pack in HRC. Because on the second pack you already "have come farther" than them.
Which shows that RNG and luck, getting loot in MMO is not just about being more skilled or getting carried by a more skilled group. The game itself warns about it. And HRC was released back in 2014.0