Can we have a Pve version of skill abilities from the Alliance War Skills?

Gedalya

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Fine by me . I'm a PvP player and I don't think anyone should be forced in there to get anything except emperorship . Also I'd like a trial gear to drop in Cyrodiil so I don't need to PVE .

I disagree; PvP content is just that, PvP content. This game is diverse enough without the need to trivialize getting gear/skills that are earned in Cyrodiil.

spiffy_jim

Psilent wrote: »

Good tips for a beginner in PvP.

1. Go in with around 25k health; once you get better at surviving you can lower it.

2. Run Radiant Magelight; will really help on stopping gank attempts.

3. Wear at least 5 pieces of impen gear and put some points into critical resistance star. (Unless your playing on no CP campaign)

4. Slot CC

5. Put on a resto staff and heal all the players. Buy siege and shoot all the players.

6. Last but not least; don't leave a resource or Keep right away. Stay back for the defense tick. If you just took the keep you can leave right away as the tick happens when the keep flips.

Good luck! Saying all this because I very much doubt ZOS will ever move vigor to another skill line. It's very easy to acquire; it used to require Alliance rank 24!

Hope this helps!!

Yeah... your 'tips' are great if the people who are 100% PVErs don't mind respecing their character, changing their build, and buying/making a whole other set of armor just to level their APs. Not my style, but I'm sure there are others that would be up to it. I have no interest spending the few hours I get each week playing the game having to do something that feels like work.

idk

spiffy_jim wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Good tips for a beginner in PvP.

1. Go in with around 25k health; once you get better at surviving you can lower it.

2. Run Radiant Magelight; will really help on stopping gank attempts.

3. Wear at least 5 pieces of impen gear and put some points into critical resistance star. (Unless your playing on no CP campaign)

4. Slot CC

5. Put on a resto staff and heal all the players. Buy siege and shoot all the players.

6. Last but not least; don't leave a resource or Keep right away. Stay back for the defense tick. If you just took the keep you can leave right away as the tick happens when the keep flips.

Good luck! Saying all this because I very much doubt ZOS will ever move vigor to another skill line. It's very easy to acquire; it used to require Alliance rank 24!

Hope this helps!!

Yeah... your 'tips' are great if the people who are 100% PVErs don't mind respecing their character, changing their build, and buying/making a whole other set of armor just to level their APs. Not my style, but I'm sure there are others that would be up to it. I have no interest spending the few hours I get each week playing the game having to do something that feels like work.

One doesn't have to. It's a choice for each to determine if they want the skills.

For those who want the skill the small amount of effort and time is worth the reward.

It's a choice and the skills there are not a requirement for playing the game.

SanTii.92

No, if you want something be willing to compromise things for getting it. Want is not the same as need, hence you are not entitle to them even when you don't like to do what needs to be done for getting it.

SanTii.92

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

William_21 wrote: »

This might be helpful to you or might not.

But farming AP is not that bad and it doesn't take that long to, say, unlock caltrops.

Defending/assaulting keeps gives you a nice amount of AP. You don't have to exactly go toe-to-toe with other players.

With the current Pvpers complaining about killer clothes killing them through proc sets..... mmm nope. I'm not stepping foot into Cyrodiil.

I'm 100% pure PVER

I would like to earn the same skills from a different and more comfortable approach that is in PvE Territory.

Unfortunatly what you would like to do is detrimental to health of the game. Zos wants you to try pvp, as any other aspect of the game and as such pvp needs some kind of attraction to all kind of players.

raidentenshu_ESO

Gedalya wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Fine by me . I'm a PvP player and I don't think anyone should be forced in there to get anything except emperorship . Also I'd like a trial gear to drop in Cyrodiil so I don't need to PVE .

I disagree; PvP content is just that, PvP content. This game is diverse enough without the need to trivialize getting gear/skills that are earned in Cyrodiil.

Yet Pvp content can help boost up our DPS and survivability, not to mention aid us when it comes down to doing trials.

We PVErs heavily rely on Caltrops, Warhorn and vigor. We also use rapids to increase our speed during trials, and to avoid those annoying frozen tornado things in the book room in AA.

Karius_Imalthar

Getting these skills is very easy now. If you really don't want to go fight people then just go repair walls or help heal during a siege. You might actually find it exciting.

SublimeSparo

Knootewoot wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

Zyrudin wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

I think everyone has to occasionally do things that they don't enjoy in the game from time to time, whether that be spending all day doing dolmens and world bosses to get a set they need, helping a friend farm a dungeon over and over again for a monster hat (or a burning spellweave staff ) grinding up another character when you have already done the story a million times, or partaking in a bit of pvp, even if you don't enjoy it, to get a skill you want.

Everyone has to do things that they don't find necessarily fun and put a bit of tedious work in to get what they want at the moment, and I don't see how levelling alliance war is any different...

Hey @SadieJoan !
How are you doing?

Anyway, if playing the game isn't about having fun and involves mandatory tediousness, then there is something that can be corrected in the design, I think. Not all people like the same in a wide scope game as ESO, that's why choice should be there.

I have PvP'd a lot in the first stages of the game and now I find it boring and certainly not fun anymore. It doesn't mean I won't help a mate in need once in a while, but I would never dream of forcing a friend to go through something he found boring in the game.

With the options in place (a PvE Alliance War campaign) and a separation of PvP and PvE gear and Alliance Skills, you could provide a wider range of choice for people to get what they liked the most without tediousness.

What I have been observing in the forums is that people who prefer PvP have a hard time figuring out why the PvP population diminished (and is probably diminishing still) and try to compensate for that by defending mandatory PvP for those who don't care or don't enjoy it. I am all for a non PvE option for those who couldn't care less for trials or dungeons or PvE quests

Hey @Zyrudin

I agree, the game should be more about fun and less about tediousness. I think most people who don't enjoy pvp but feel that they have to do it for the alliance skills most likely want vigor, so perhaps it would be a better idea to add a skill like that to the non alliance war skills...

I can't imagine zenimax ever allowing people to have access to skills like vigor without doing pvp, because they already reduced the time it takes to get them, but maybe making a pve version of the ones people want, perhaps at the end of the fighters/mages guild line or something, might be a good idea, especially for stamina classes who feel tied to using 2h but don't want to pvp.

I really hate maelstrom arena and do not want to do it to get a maelstrom weapon sharpened. It's boring and not fun to do. Just like the trials and leveling an alt.

It might be a good idea to give all those items, including skillpoints from quests and skyshards, for free to PvP players at the end of a long campaign of fighting.

What like BIS monster shoulders and helmets you can just buy from a vendor...
Can't we just buy vigor with gold as a compromise?

SublimeSparo

DHale wrote: »

Right after VO and IA jewelry drops in rewards of the worthy.

Both of which are useless for pvp... whereas vigor is far from useless for pretty much all stam dd's who purely want to pve, don't even get me started on grinding out warhorn and vigor on my pve tanks...

Tannus15

Just run 2-H on your buff bar and slot Rally when you don't have a healer and swap it out for Bow when you do or don't need heals.

Rally + Brawler makes any stamina build durable enough to get by.

Alternatively change rapid strikes for bloodthirst and you'll have plenty of incoming heals.
There are LOTS of tools you can use outside of vigor for healing.

Hell, swap out one set for pariah and literally harden up. You need less healing with more mitigation.
Swap out pariah for bee keeper and a troll king helm for many laughs.
Grab vampires kiss for them lovely kill heals.

There are so many options in this game if you're willing to work outside the standard DPS meta builds.

SublimeSparo

Tannus15 wrote: »

Just run 2-H on your buff bar and slot Rally when you don't have a healer and swap it out for Bow when you do or don't need heals.

Rally + Brawler makes any stamina build durable enough to get by.

Alternatively change rapid strikes for bloodthirst and you'll have plenty of incoming heals.
There are LOTS of tools you can use outside of vigor for healing.

Hell, swap out one set for pariah and literally harden up. You need less healing with more mitigation.
Swap out pariah for bee keeper and a troll king helm for many laughs.
Grab vampires kiss for them lovely kill heals.

There are so many options in this game if you're willing to work outside the standard DPS meta builds.

A dps's job is to do as much dps as possible without dying, yes your ideas are valid but you are sacrificing a ton of dps to acheive them, it kind of defeats the purpose

Tannus15

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Just run 2-H on your buff bar and slot Rally when you don't have a healer and swap it out for Bow when you do or don't need heals.

Rally + Brawler makes any stamina build durable enough to get by.

Alternatively change rapid strikes for bloodthirst and you'll have plenty of incoming heals.
There are LOTS of tools you can use outside of vigor for healing.

Hell, swap out one set for pariah and literally harden up. You need less healing with more mitigation.
Swap out pariah for bee keeper and a troll king helm for many laughs.
Grab vampires kiss for them lovely kill heals.

There are so many options in this game if you're willing to work outside the standard DPS meta builds.

A dps's job is to do as much dps as possible without dying, yes your ideas are valid but you are sacrificing a ton of dps to acheive them, it kind of defeats the purpose

When you have a healer and a tank you shouldn't need vigor. That's the only time you're properly in the role of "dps".
vMA or solo'ing or doing a dungeon without a healer etc you are not in a "dps" role.
You're doing something else and you need some self heals. The reason people like vigor so much is that it's the easy way to just grab some heals without having to think about your build or survivability.

None of my characters have Vigor. I accept this as a limitation and work around it with alt builds for characters that need them. The best way I've found is to deal with it is to swap out my Bow for 2H when i'm NOT in a full group situation.

Dressing room addon is your friend.

Chaquinho89

I'm not a full PVP player myself either, in fact, 95% of my time I spend PVEing, but I like going into Cyrodiil every now and then.
All my stamina based characters are the ones I care most to PVP because I can get Vigor and Caltrops which are the most sustainable skills to bring into the PVE world.
But still, a stamina heal for PVE would be great so we don't need to have to equip a 2H for Rally...

Stebarnz

Chaquinho89 wrote: »

I'm not a full PVP player myself either, in fact, 95% of my time I spend PVEing, but I like going into Cyrodiil every now and then.
All my stamina based characters are the ones I care most to PVP because I can get Vigor and Caltrops which are the most sustainable skills to bring into the PVE world.
But still, a stamina heal for PVE would be great so we don't need to have to equip a 2H for Rally...

Vigor is a stam heal.... game is too easy anyway without never ever dying. What do you actually want?

Blackfyre20

Number_51 wrote: »

It is true, but only minimally (up to level 3 or so as @Silver_Strider said). You can get Dungeon Healer, Greater Dungeon Healer, Dungeon Blocker, Greater Dungeon Blocker, Dungeon Damage Dealer, and Greater Dungeon Damage Dealer in delves and public dungeons. There's also the This One's On Me achievement (awarded for purchasing a drink for the Undaunted companions in each of the 15 Alliance zones). It's been a while, but I think you can get halfway through level 3 undaunted without ever stepping foot in a normal or vet dungeon.

Caveat: Unless something has changed with the Dungeon and Greater Dungeon achievements. As I said, it's been a while.

ETA: There's also the Undaunted dailies now. I hit Undaunted level 7, on a character who's never been in a dungeon, the other day.

Fair enough, in a roudabout sort of way I suppose this is true. Undaunted dailies can only be done once per day so if you want to grind undaunted faster than that you can't without doing dungeons, whereas you can spend a few hours in Cyrodiil zerg surfing and repairing walls for vigor. This point would make more sense if the most sought after undaunted skill was earned at undaunted 3 rather than 9, similar to how vigor is earned early in the assault skill line.

Elara_Northwind

I really don't understand why anyone would be against stamina people being able to have a heal, like vigor, in a pve skill line, it baffles me... Why would this actually upset anyone? Makes no sense to me I love to pvp and do it several times a week, and worked hard for my skills there, but even so, I couldn't give a damn whether people who don't pvp are able have access to a stamina heal, which is what I think the main issue is.

Being able to have a good heal that doesn't require you to equip a 2h sword shouldn't be locked behind a wall of content that some people simply do not wish to do. I don't think that people who don't pvp should get access to all alliance war skills, but I don't see a problem with having a stamina heal that isn't tied to pvp, and don't know why other people do...

acw37162

The reason this won't happen is very simple.

They want every player, or as many as possible, to at least try Cyrodil even if only for a little while.

Whether you like PVP or not a lot of one and effort went into creating the content they actually want as many player to "try" it as possible.

Make it even easier to get the skills is a possibility.

SublimeSparo

Tannus15 wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Just run 2-H on your buff bar and slot Rally when you don't have a healer and swap it out for Bow when you do or don't need heals.

Rally + Brawler makes any stamina build durable enough to get by.

Alternatively change rapid strikes for bloodthirst and you'll have plenty of incoming heals.
There are LOTS of tools you can use outside of vigor for healing.

Hell, swap out one set for pariah and literally harden up. You need less healing with more mitigation.
Swap out pariah for bee keeper and a troll king helm for many laughs.
Grab vampires kiss for them lovely kill heals.

There are so many options in this game if you're willing to work outside the standard DPS meta builds.

A dps's job is to do as much dps as possible without dying, yes your ideas are valid but you are sacrificing a ton of dps to acheive them, it kind of defeats the purpose

When you have a healer and a tank you shouldn't need vigor. That's the only time you're properly in the role of "dps".
vMA or solo'ing or doing a dungeon without a healer etc you are not in a "dps" role.
You're doing something else and you need some self heals. The reason people like vigor so much is that it's the easy way to just grab some heals without having to think about your build or survivability.

None of my characters have Vigor. I accept this as a limitation and work around it with alt builds for characters that need them. The best way I've found is to deal with it is to swap out my Bow for 2H when i'm NOT in a full group situation.

Dressing room addon is your friend.

I just hate being tied to a certain type of weapon to get a heal, I've completed vma on stamsorc without vigor, magdk/sorc/nb with double destro/ destro dw purely for that reason. However I wouldn't like to attempt it on say a stamina nb/ templar or dk without a 2h or vigor.

As for group content, yes in an ideal world when running with a healer and tank you shouldn't have to worry about selfhealing, however due to the nature of the combat system and the sheers amount of incoming damage in veteran trials especially it's unrealistic to expect to survive on a stam character without vigor while optimising dps, magicka has a lot more leeway in this regard due to being able to shield while waiting to be healed.

Don't get me wrong I have got vigor for every single one of my tanks/ stam characters across both servers but with the state of pvp these days it's getting tiresome.
I would also say vma very much is a dps centric role, you're not going to heal or tank anything to death in there or even soloing dungeons for that matter- the quicker things die the less deviation from the dps role there is.

PS, console so no, addons are not my friend in the slightest lol

Pirhana7_ESO

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Perhaps adding these skills into the fighters guild? You know you have to earn these skills from doing regular dailies from the fighters guild. I'm just now getting into stamina builds, and most of the builds that I've taken an interests of requires some of the skills from the Alliance war.

I have zero interests in doing pvp but I need some of the abilities from the Alliance war. Why not give us an opinion of earning them from the fighters guild through the dailies?

This is a mixed PVE and PVP game, they were very clear about that from the beginning of game production. If you want everything and to be as strong as possible you need to do both. If you dont like PVP maybe a game like GW2 that seperates PVP and PVE would be better for you. BUT as for ESO the whole main engame theme revolves around the 3 alliances at war and progressing your alliance ranks.

Jaronking

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Gedalya wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Fine by me . I'm a PvP player and I don't think anyone should be forced in there to get anything except emperorship . Also I'd like a trial gear to drop in Cyrodiil so I don't need to PVE .

I disagree; PvP content is just that, PvP content. This game is diverse enough without the need to trivialize getting gear/skills that are earned in Cyrodiil.

Yet Pvp content can help boost up our DPS and survivability, not to mention aid us when it comes down to doing trials.

We PVErs heavily rely on Caltrops, Warhorn and vigor. We also use rapids to increase our speed during trials, and to avoid those annoying frozen tornado things in the book room in AA.

If your doing a Vet trial your not playing a stambuild anyway since its better for your group and easier to just go magic.

Let me correct you on a few things because its obvious you don't know what your talking about.
1.only one person in for group can run Caltrops and its usually the guy running NMG.Most trials groups if they run stam which majority don't anymore only have 1-2 stambuilds in the group.So your probably not even running caltrops.So you don't rely on caltrops because your probably not even running it.
2.You don't need vigor for anything in this game.You can complete VMA with just using Rally as your only heal of your on a stam sorc don't even need vigor.
3.Rapids is only used during one part of Vet AA and you get that from doing the opening quest for PVP.You don't need rapids for anything else.
4.If you actually do trials you don't need vigor because you be playing a magic build right now.

If you really wanted vigor you wouldn't be here complaining right now you be out getting vigor.

Hand_Bacon

For a minute I thought somebody necro'd a thread from the last time AP was adjusted. Was that thieves guild? I swear there was a new thread everyday asking for undaunted or pvp skills to be available without doing either.

AzuraKin

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Perhaps adding these skills into the fighters guild? You know you have to earn these skills from doing regular dailies from the fighters guild. I'm just now getting into stamina builds, and most of the builds that I've taken an interests of requires some of the skills from the Alliance war.

I have zero interests in doing pvp but I need some of the abilities from the Alliance war. Why not give us an opinion of earning them from the fighters guild through the dailies?

no. the pvp skills are fine where they are. giving every player every skill just to give it to them is horrible idea. as well as 1. maximum time it should take you to get to alliance skill lvl 10 is 100 hours of pvp. (maximum i know forum warriors you can get it faster and most usually in half that time) 2. things should be earned not given.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I've been playing for years and have more than 600 CP. I'm also an Undaunted level 6.

Cry me a river.

I've chosen to do a really low amount of dungeons and do not deserve to have the benefits of the best Undaunted passives. I can solo normal dungeons but PVE pick up groups have been filled with such an extraordinarily high number of crying jerks that I've stopped PUG grouping entirely. About the only time I run a dungeon is when a guildie absolutely needs a 4th or 12th person.

Anyway, I don't get an extra skill without earning it and neither should anyone else. Just suck it up for a weekend if it's that important.

The entire concept of earning things is lost on so many people on this forum it's ridiculous. Do you know what I have had to do to be good at PVP? Spend weeks outside of it picking flowers. Do you think I really wanted to spend weeks searching for columbine and namiras rot? Well I didn't, but it was something that I was forced to do to achieve the level of success that I wanted in PVP. If you want a skill for PVE that's a PVP skill, come and earn it.

Prabooo

MrAppleman wrote: »

No.

^^^

kieso

It was incredibly short sighted of them to put such useful skills into PVP only categories. Usually in these faction based MMO's PVP skills are more siege based.

TheShadowScout

PvE-ers who want the PvP skills just have to PvP for them. Just like PvPlayers have to PvE for the undaunted skills.
Don't wanna?
Do without!

I generally dislike PvP, because I am at best adequate at it, and loose most of the one-on-one fights I get into in cyrodil... but did that stop me from earning those skills on my main? Nope. I just grabbed my bow (which lemme tell you is not exactly the best thing to drag around cyrodil with all those dragonknights flapping their wings), and pitched in with whatever warband was around when I entered a campaign. And slowly earned my skills. And eventually I'll have to do that for my other characters as well.

But I'm not complaining, and not demanding they give me those skills for free. I'll earn them, on any character I really want them on. And the rest, well, they'll just do without those skills.

Mayrael

kieso wrote: »

It was incredibly short sighted of them to put such useful skills into PVP only categories. Usually in these faction based MMO's PVP skills are more siege based.

This is the way to force some of you to actualy atleast step foot in Cyrodiil. There is no PvPer that didnt spent hundrets of hours to do anything in PvP so you can spent few hours to have a bit more options in PvE - there is no content that cant be done without vigor. Yeah I know that PvP breaks your self delusion of being so stronk, amazing etc. etc. but you need to deal with it or adapt and become stronger than ever you have been.

You know why PvPers hate to play PvE? Because there is no chalange for them. After fighting some best, most fercious, vicious and dangerous players, PvE is simply boring. Where is the fun in doing exactly the same thing again and again "oh we meet again you filthy mob, come on lets do this! For a 73rd time!".

Im giving you this advice last time. Try out PvP. Firstly try to survive there, when you will be good at it, try to kill someone. Seriously, you will be surprised how much you can learn about your character. Im out of this topic as it leads to nowhere if you simply refuse to take some advices how and why you should earn Vigor on your own.

redspecter23

I've got Vigor unlocked on all 12 toons and Caltrops on 11 of them. The majority of my AP earned? Wall repair. You don't have to fight a single person if you don't want to and getting Vigor purely from wall repair will take approximately 4 hours if you get a steady stream of dinged walls.

There are ways to get pvp skills unlocked for players that have no interest in pvp. You just have to look for them.

Zyrudin

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

The entire concept of earning things is lost on so many people on this forum it's ridiculous. Do you know what I have had to do to be good at PVP? Spend weeks outside of it picking flowers. Do you think I really wanted to spend weeks searching for columbine and namiras rot? Well I didn't, but it was something that I was forced to do to achieve the level of success that I wanted in PVP. If you want a skill for PVE that's a PVP skill, come and earn it.

@danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO

Allow me to respectfully differentiate two things from what you said:

Earning through personal sacrifice? Investing all your talent and effort to achieve a desired level of success in whatever field? Do it in Real Life, where that belongs, I say.

This is a game, not a job, not one's personal actual life and certainly not an indicator of how good or how successful one is.

Moreover, a number of people play games to relax from, metaphorically speaking (using your terms for argument's sake), "spending weeks picking flowers" they really don't want to do but either feel they have to do to achieve something or are somehow forced to do. These people I mention, do not want nor need to see a mirror of real life in a game such as ESO, they want an intermission from it, a respite.

Now, granted, one may or may not agree with this posture towards a video game. There are actually people who take this really seriously and do invest in it as they do (or far more, in some cases) in real life.
However, liking or disliking something is not the measure for what you allow other people to do.

Docmandu

Zyrudin wrote: »

This is a game, not a job, not one's personal actual life and certainly not an indicator of how good or how successful one is.

Moreover, a number of people play games to relax from, metaphorically speaking (using your terms for argument's sake), "spending weeks picking flowers" they really don't want to do but either feel they have to do to achieve something or are somehow forced to do. These people I mention, do not want nor need to see a mirror of real life in a game such as ESO, they want an intermission from it, a respite.

If you want your game time to be 100% fun and enjoyable, I'm afraid you picked the wrong game type. We all know MMORPGs don't fall into that category.. just go look at all the posts when an MMO releases about the grind to "end game". Yet people still play the game... guess we're all suckers for pain.

How many people do you think enjoyed doing vMSA 100 times over to get a specific weapon?! The "pain" in achieving something, makes the reward all the more "enjoyable". It's like MMO basics 101.

Humans... strange creatures.