Can we have a Pve version of skill abilities from the Alliance War Skills?

Khaos_Bane

As I have always stated, just don't allow the Alliance War skills work in any part of Tamriel but Cyrodiil. That would be a solution for both sides. Vigor is an OP skill in PvE basically, but it's needed in PvP so leave it in PvP only. Once you leave Cyrodiil those skills don't work.

DocFrost72

OP, what I suggest is you join the masonry corps. I'm not even joking, repairing walls is expensive, but possibly the best AP return that serves a purpose to your alliance. After sieges, most people repair their keeps. There is usally a window after they upgrade, however, where you can get some repairing done. That, and look for the corners of the keep where the walls jut out. Those are usually left damaged because if they reach zero nbd, there's still no breach.

Also, do nothing but defend keeps with siege. Fire balistae are very effective and cheap ways to help a defense team out. Oils will have you drowning in affection if you dump them on a raid walking into an inner breach.

The best part? You're earning AP in a fast, fun way that helps your alliance. I've done this for 8 or 9 characters so far, and I have to say I enjoy siege battles even if I lose. Like tanks in Battlefield.

Elara_Northwind

Zyrudin wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

I think everyone has to occasionally do things that they don't enjoy in the game from time to time, whether that be spending all day doing dolmens and world bosses to get a set they need, helping a friend farm a dungeon over and over again for a monster hat (or a burning spellweave staff ) grinding up another character when you have already done the story a million times, or partaking in a bit of pvp, even if you don't enjoy it, to get a skill you want.

Everyone has to do things that they don't find necessarily fun and put a bit of tedious work in to get what they want at the moment, and I don't see how levelling alliance war is any different...

Hey @SadieJoan !
How are you doing?

Anyway, if playing the game isn't about having fun and involves mandatory tediousness, then there is something that can be corrected in the design, I think. Not all people like the same in a wide scope game as ESO, that's why choice should be there.

I have PvP'd a lot in the first stages of the game and now I find it boring and certainly not fun anymore. It doesn't mean I won't help a mate in need once in a while, but I would never dream of forcing a friend to go through something he found boring in the game.

With the options in place (a PvE Alliance War campaign) and a separation of PvP and PvE gear and Alliance Skills, you could provide a wider range of choice for people to get what they liked the most without tediousness.

What I have been observing in the forums is that people who prefer PvP have a hard time figuring out why the PvP population diminished (and is probably diminishing still) and try to compensate for that by defending mandatory PvP for those who don't care or don't enjoy it. I am all for a non PvE option for those who couldn't care less for trials or dungeons or PvE quests

Hey @Zyrudin

I agree, the game should be more about fun and less about tediousness. I think most people who don't enjoy pvp but feel that they have to do it for the alliance skills most likely want vigor, so perhaps it would be a better idea to add a skill like that to the non alliance war skills...

I can't imagine zenimax ever allowing people to have access to skills like vigor without doing pvp, because they already reduced the time it takes to get them, but maybe making a pve version of the ones people want, perhaps at the end of the fighters/mages guild line or something, might be a good idea, especially for stamina classes who feel tied to using 2h but don't want to pvp.

Knootewoot

SadieJoan wrote: »

Zyrudin wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

I think everyone has to occasionally do things that they don't enjoy in the game from time to time, whether that be spending all day doing dolmens and world bosses to get a set they need, helping a friend farm a dungeon over and over again for a monster hat (or a burning spellweave staff ) grinding up another character when you have already done the story a million times, or partaking in a bit of pvp, even if you don't enjoy it, to get a skill you want.

Everyone has to do things that they don't find necessarily fun and put a bit of tedious work in to get what they want at the moment, and I don't see how levelling alliance war is any different...

Hey @SadieJoan !
How are you doing?

Anyway, if playing the game isn't about having fun and involves mandatory tediousness, then there is something that can be corrected in the design, I think. Not all people like the same in a wide scope game as ESO, that's why choice should be there.

I have PvP'd a lot in the first stages of the game and now I find it boring and certainly not fun anymore. It doesn't mean I won't help a mate in need once in a while, but I would never dream of forcing a friend to go through something he found boring in the game.

With the options in place (a PvE Alliance War campaign) and a separation of PvP and PvE gear and Alliance Skills, you could provide a wider range of choice for people to get what they liked the most without tediousness.

What I have been observing in the forums is that people who prefer PvP have a hard time figuring out why the PvP population diminished (and is probably diminishing still) and try to compensate for that by defending mandatory PvP for those who don't care or don't enjoy it. I am all for a non PvE option for those who couldn't care less for trials or dungeons or PvE quests

Hey @Zyrudin

I agree, the game should be more about fun and less about tediousness. I think most people who don't enjoy pvp but feel that they have to do it for the alliance skills most likely want vigor, so perhaps it would be a better idea to add a skill like that to the non alliance war skills...

I can't imagine zenimax ever allowing people to have access to skills like vigor without doing pvp, because they already reduced the time it takes to get them, but maybe making a pve version of the ones people want, perhaps at the end of the fighters/mages guild line or something, might be a good idea, especially for stamina classes who feel tied to using 2h but don't want to pvp.

I really hate maelstrom arena and do not want to do it to get a maelstrom weapon sharpened. It's boring and not fun to do. Just like the trials and leveling an alt.

It might be a good idea to give all those items, including skillpoints from quests and skyshards, for free to PvP players at the end of a long campaign of fighting.

Zyrudin

Knootewoot wrote: »

I really hate maelstrom arena and do not want to do it to get a maelstrom weapon sharpened. It's boring and not fun to do. Just like the trials and leveling an alt.

It might be a good idea to give all those items, including skillpoints from quests and skyshards, for free to PvP players at the end of a long campaign of fighting.

I agree, only giving those weapons different names, such as Alliance War Veteran Weapons or something.
If you only PvP you should be rewarded for it with something worthwhile.

I disagree with bringing PvE gear to PvP and so also disagree with those PvP reward weapons and gear to be used in PvE too.

Strider_Roshin

Make it so you don't have to do the undaunted in order to get the undaunted passives, and you have a deal! Also Master, and Maelstrom weapons should be a reward for PvP.

Elara_Northwind

Knootewoot wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

Zyrudin wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

I think everyone has to occasionally do things that they don't enjoy in the game from time to time, whether that be spending all day doing dolmens and world bosses to get a set they need, helping a friend farm a dungeon over and over again for a monster hat (or a burning spellweave staff ) grinding up another character when you have already done the story a million times, or partaking in a bit of pvp, even if you don't enjoy it, to get a skill you want.

Everyone has to do things that they don't find necessarily fun and put a bit of tedious work in to get what they want at the moment, and I don't see how levelling alliance war is any different...

Hey @SadieJoan !
How are you doing?

Anyway, if playing the game isn't about having fun and involves mandatory tediousness, then there is something that can be corrected in the design, I think. Not all people like the same in a wide scope game as ESO, that's why choice should be there.

I have PvP'd a lot in the first stages of the game and now I find it boring and certainly not fun anymore. It doesn't mean I won't help a mate in need once in a while, but I would never dream of forcing a friend to go through something he found boring in the game.

With the options in place (a PvE Alliance War campaign) and a separation of PvP and PvE gear and Alliance Skills, you could provide a wider range of choice for people to get what they liked the most without tediousness.

What I have been observing in the forums is that people who prefer PvP have a hard time figuring out why the PvP population diminished (and is probably diminishing still) and try to compensate for that by defending mandatory PvP for those who don't care or don't enjoy it. I am all for a non PvE option for those who couldn't care less for trials or dungeons or PvE quests

Hey @Zyrudin

I agree, the game should be more about fun and less about tediousness. I think most people who don't enjoy pvp but feel that they have to do it for the alliance skills most likely want vigor, so perhaps it would be a better idea to add a skill like that to the non alliance war skills...

I can't imagine zenimax ever allowing people to have access to skills like vigor without doing pvp, because they already reduced the time it takes to get them, but maybe making a pve version of the ones people want, perhaps at the end of the fighters/mages guild line or something, might be a good idea, especially for stamina classes who feel tied to using 2h but don't want to pvp.

I really hate maelstrom arena and do not want to do it to get a maelstrom weapon sharpened. It's boring and not fun to do. Just like the trials and leveling an alt.

It might be a good idea to give all those items, including skillpoints from quests and skyshards, for free to PvP players at the end of a long campaign of fighting.

I play both pvp and pve, as do most people I know, so I have always failed to understand this whole pvp/pve them and us mentality that some people have, to me, we are all playing a game, trying to have FUN I agree that if you want something, you should work for it, I was just suggesting that perhaps they could add a skill like vigor to the pve skill lines somewhere.

spiffy_jim

I was a train wreck the last time I tried to do PVP, but I do still want Vigor like the rest of the PVErs that need a good heal. I watched the YouTube videos, read the forum posts, watched more videos but was still rubbish so I just followed the zerg around for the ESO Nascar track and finally gave up out of boredom.

Does anyone know any guilds that have newbie PVP for just this reason? Like, getting a group together and dedicating the weekend for crap PVPers who just want the skill line and have no interest in ruining the game/PVP for others (and themselves)? I think I'd give it a try again if I was with some fun people who were suffering through it as well.

NeillMcAttack

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

William_21 wrote: »

This might be helpful to you or might not.

But farming AP is not that bad and it doesn't take that long to, say, unlock caltrops.

Defending/assaulting keeps gives you a nice amount of AP. You don't have to exactly go toe-to-toe with other players.

I'm 100% pure PVER

This sentence should be the beginning and end of any argument for access to stuff in areas of the game, where, by no-ones choice but the individuals they have chosen to not participate in certain aspects of the game.

That is it!! Your choice not to participate and earn rewards, just like its my choice not to bother grinding for two sharpened Maelstrom One-handed weapons!!

You have a choice, just like we all do!

BuddyAces

Honestly, these threads are stupid. I'm not a big pvp'er at all. Outside of getting certain abilities on certain toons I have yet to actually go into pvp to pvp (not max cp so I really don't bother yet haha). Light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, champion points set up for pve....I'm basically a wet dream for anyone looking for an easy kill. With that being said, IT IS NOT HARD TO GET PVP SKILLS. Seriously, it's not. Here's some real simple and easy steps to get up to caltrops fast:

1. Join a group. Like it might take you a lil bit to get into a group but you will get into a group. It's honestly not that hard. Type into zone chat every now and then looking for a group to join. Most of the times you will see someone saying "Type lfg or X or *insert keyword here* for auto invite". Just type the magic word and voila, you have a party. Or find out where the action is and go where everyone else is and someone will be yelling what to type for an invite. Follow your newly found zerg group.

2. Now that you've found a group (remember, you're a pve'er who hates pvp) just sit back and leech. Yeah, I said it. Leech your lil ol' heart out. If you have a healy toon go ahead and heal everyone in sight. If you're a heavy armor level 20 tank...grab a damn healing staff and put a point into your healy ability and run around healing people for 20 points. You're leeching and nobody is seriously going to notice you're not doing *** on purpose since you're a low level...they expect you not to be doing *** because you're a low level. If you have any range abilities just spam a simple attack at the enemy. Never leave your zerg. Your zerg is your protection.

3. Buy wall and door repair kits to repair *** after your zerg takes a keep. When you get some AP go spend it on some big war machines to help take down keep walls and doors. At least you're doing something now other than just plain up leeching. Your zerg is your friend, they will be doing this multiple times.

There is absolutely nothing hard about getting those pvp skills. Follow those 3 easy to do things and you'll have your caltrops (or whatever you're after) in no time. If I can do it at low lvl with no survivability and and still hardly any understanding on PVP at all, then anyone can do this.

Zyrudin

BuddyAces wrote: »

Honestly, these threads are stupid. I'm not a big pvp'er at all. Outside of getting certain abilities on certain toons I have yet to actually go into pvp to pvp (not max cp so I really don't bother yet haha). Light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, champion points set up for pve....I'm basically a wet dream for anyone looking for an easy kill. With that being said, IT IS NOT HARD TO GET PVP SKILLS. Seriously, it's not. Here's some real simple and easy steps to get up to caltrops fast:

1. Join a group. Like it might take you a lil bit to get into a group but you will get into a group. It's honestly not that hard. Type into zone chat every now and then looking for a group to join. Most of the times you will see someone saying "Type lfg or X or *insert keyword here* for auto invite". Just type the magic word and voila, you have a party. Or find out where the action is and go where everyone else is and someone will be yelling what to type for an invite. Follow your newly found zerg group.

2. Now that you've found a group (remember, you're a pve'er who hates pvp) just sit back and leech. Yeah, I said it. Leech your lil ol' heart out. If you have a healy toon go ahead and heal everyone in sight. If you're a heavy armor level 20 tank...grab a damn healing staff and put a point into your healy ability and run around healing people for 20 points. You're leeching and nobody is seriously going to notice you're not doing *** on purpose since you're a low level...they expect you not to be doing *** because you're a low level. If you have any range abilities just spam a simple attack at the enemy. Never leave your zerg. Your zerg is your protection.

3. Buy wall and door repair kits to repair *** after your zerg takes a keep. When you get some AP go spend it on some big war machines to help take down keep walls and doors. At least you're doing something now other than just plain up leeching. Your zerg is your friend, they will be doing this multiple times.

There is absolutely nothing hard about getting those pvp skills. Follow those 3 easy to do things and you'll have your caltrops (or whatever you're after) in no time. If I can do it at low lvl with no survivability and and still hardly any understanding on PVP at all, then anyone can do this.

@BuddyAces

Your suggestions are appreciated, but the deeper issue is that you have presented the tediousness of people who have no interest in PvP have to go through to get a few useful skills for PvE (which makes no sense either). It is more a workaround than a proper solution.

So, the solution could be to have different equivalent skills opened for PvE skill lines (such as undaunted, mages or fighter's guilds) and set the alliance war skills for PvP only. Do the same separation to gear, except for crafted gear, to make crafting a thing again. Add a stash box to Cyrodiil's faction base where one can store their own PvP-only gear. That way, PvP would be its own reward and PvP'ers wouldn't need to grind in PvE to get their competitive gear (nor the other way around).

While we are at it, as I suggested on a different post, make a PvE Cyrodill campaign set as a series of 20-man trials questline, where you have objectives step by step that require teamwork mechanics (as trials do) but against NPC's of other factions armies. The map is already there, so that should be less work and time investment.

Players need choice: if you want to mainly PvP you are entitled to get your proper rewards without having to PvE, when you achieve something. If you want to mainly PvE, the same, get what you need after achieving something without having to PvP.

Khaos_Bane

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Make it so you don't have to do the undaunted in order to get the undaunted passives, and you have a deal! Also Master, and Maelstrom weapons should be a reward for PvP.

IMO

Zyrudin wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Honestly, these threads are stupid. I'm not a big pvp'er at all. Outside of getting certain abilities on certain toons I have yet to actually go into pvp to pvp (not max cp so I really don't bother yet haha). Light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, champion points set up for pve....I'm basically a wet dream for anyone looking for an easy kill. With that being said, IT IS NOT HARD TO GET PVP SKILLS. Seriously, it's not. Here's some real simple and easy steps to get up to caltrops fast:

1. Join a group. Like it might take you a lil bit to get into a group but you will get into a group. It's honestly not that hard. Type into zone chat every now and then looking for a group to join. Most of the times you will see someone saying "Type lfg or X or *insert keyword here* for auto invite". Just type the magic word and voila, you have a party. Or find out where the action is and go where everyone else is and someone will be yelling what to type for an invite. Follow your newly found zerg group.

2. Now that you've found a group (remember, you're a pve'er who hates pvp) just sit back and leech. Yeah, I said it. Leech your lil ol' heart out. If you have a healy toon go ahead and heal everyone in sight. If you're a heavy armor level 20 tank...grab a damn healing staff and put a point into your healy ability and run around healing people for 20 points. You're leeching and nobody is seriously going to notice you're not doing *** on purpose since you're a low level...they expect you not to be doing *** because you're a low level. If you have any range abilities just spam a simple attack at the enemy. Never leave your zerg. Your zerg is your protection.

3. Buy wall and door repair kits to repair *** after your zerg takes a keep. When you get some AP go spend it on some big war machines to help take down keep walls and doors. At least you're doing something now other than just plain up leeching. Your zerg is your friend, they will be doing this multiple times.

There is absolutely nothing hard about getting those pvp skills. Follow those 3 easy to do things and you'll have your caltrops (or whatever you're after) in no time. If I can do it at low lvl with no survivability and and still hardly any understanding on PVP at all, then anyone can do this.

@BuddyAces

Your suggestions are appreciated, but the deeper issue is that you have presented the tediousness of people who have no interest in PvP have to go through to get a few useful skills for PvE (whicvh makes no sense either). It is more a workaround than a proper solution.

So, the solution could be to have different equivalent skills opened for PvE skill lines (such as undaunted, mages or fighter's guilds) and set the alliance war skills for PvP only. Do the same separation to gear, except for crafted gear, to make crafting a thing again. Add a stash box to Cyrodiil's faction base where one can store their own PvP-only gear. That way, PvP would be its own reward and PvP'ers wouldn't need to grind in PvE to get their competitive gear (nor the other way around).

While we are at it, as I suggested on a different post, make a PvE Cyrodill campaign set as a series of 20-man trials questline, where you have objectives step by step that require teamwork mechanics (as trials do) but against NPC's of other factions armies. The map is already there, so that should be less work and time investment.

Players need choice: if you want to mainly PvP you are entitled to get your proper rewards without having to PvE, when you achieve something. If you want to mainly PvE, the same, get what you need after achieving something without having to PvP.

I would go even further and say. If you ONLY PvE, there should be NO disadvantage to you in PvE if you never PvP.

The same should be true for people who only choose to PvP.

dead_goon

Doesn't take long to level AW skills doing pvp. Plus it's fun with a group. Grow some balls.

Elijah_Crow

I hope they never do this. The reality is that most PvE'ers who actually spend some time in Cyrodiil find a way to contribute. Some repair keeps or run seige on defense. Some join large groups and learn to seige and steal scrolls.

The end result in my experience with non PvP players is that they end up having fun. Lots of fun. The game has a lot of ways to enjoy it and if you don't give Cyrodiil a try, you are missing out. The skills are great incentives to get new PvP'ers to give it a try and most really come to love it.

Danksta

But if I wasn't forced to PvP for certain skills I would've never discovered my favorite part of the game, PvP.

FoolishHuman

Knootewoot wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

Zyrudin wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

I think everyone has to occasionally do things that they don't enjoy in the game from time to time, whether that be spending all day doing dolmens and world bosses to get a set they need, helping a friend farm a dungeon over and over again for a monster hat (or a burning spellweave staff ) grinding up another character when you have already done the story a million times, or partaking in a bit of pvp, even if you don't enjoy it, to get a skill you want.

Everyone has to do things that they don't find necessarily fun and put a bit of tedious work in to get what they want at the moment, and I don't see how levelling alliance war is any different...

Hey @SadieJoan !
How are you doing?

Anyway, if playing the game isn't about having fun and involves mandatory tediousness, then there is something that can be corrected in the design, I think. Not all people like the same in a wide scope game as ESO, that's why choice should be there.

I have PvP'd a lot in the first stages of the game and now I find it boring and certainly not fun anymore. It doesn't mean I won't help a mate in need once in a while, but I would never dream of forcing a friend to go through something he found boring in the game.

With the options in place (a PvE Alliance War campaign) and a separation of PvP and PvE gear and Alliance Skills, you could provide a wider range of choice for people to get what they liked the most without tediousness.

What I have been observing in the forums is that people who prefer PvP have a hard time figuring out why the PvP population diminished (and is probably diminishing still) and try to compensate for that by defending mandatory PvP for those who don't care or don't enjoy it. I am all for a non PvE option for those who couldn't care less for trials or dungeons or PvE quests

Hey @Zyrudin

I agree, the game should be more about fun and less about tediousness. I think most people who don't enjoy pvp but feel that they have to do it for the alliance skills most likely want vigor, so perhaps it would be a better idea to add a skill like that to the non alliance war skills...

I can't imagine zenimax ever allowing people to have access to skills like vigor without doing pvp, because they already reduced the time it takes to get them, but maybe making a pve version of the ones people want, perhaps at the end of the fighters/mages guild line or something, might be a good idea, especially for stamina classes who feel tied to using 2h but don't want to pvp.

I really hate maelstrom arena and do not want to do it to get a maelstrom weapon sharpened. It's boring and not fun to do. Just like the trials and leveling an alt.

It might be a good idea to give all those items, including skillpoints from quests and skyshards, for free to PvP players at the end of a long campaign of fighting.

Yes, you should be able to make a PvP only character that automatically gets all skillpoints, max level and cp. Also access to all item sets. Can't leave Cyrodiil though. That would make PvP truly fair and skill based.

But keeping the only stamina heal in the game from PvE players won't make PvP any better, so I don't undestand this crusade.

Zyrudin

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I hope they never do this. The reality is that most PvE'ers who actually spend some time in Cyrodiil find a way to contribute. Some repair keeps or run seige on defense. Some join large groups and learn to seige and steal scrolls.

The end result in my experience with non PvP players is that they end up having fun. Lots of fun. The game has a lot of ways to enjoy it and if you don't give Cyrodiil a try, you are missing out. The skills are great incentives to get new PvP'ers to give it a try and most really come to love it.

@Elijah_Crow

I have PvP'd quite a lot in the first stages of the game. I have a hard time believing that a person who prefers to PvE would have fun repairing keeps and doors all the way to Vigor. They would endure it and probably even convince themselves that it was fun, but quite a chunk of them will probably stay away from Cyrodiil after that once they get what they want.

A common mistake (which is a mindset mistake, mind you) from PvP'rs is to assume that PvE'rs are afraid of PvP (because they tend to be killed a lot or feel prey to veteran gankers, etc). It seems they cannot imagine players who have no interest in getting involved in combat with other players. Yes, the lag, yes, the imbalances, the procs, etc - but that's for those who would like to compete but dislike the balance. There is a chunk of the game population who have zero interest in PvP and often will do what you describe (repair, roam around in the trains and leech AP off a group) because they think they require those skills so talked about (some do, some actually don't, but that's another matter).

I have my own opinion of why it is that PvP'rs resist a separate instance of Cyrodiil for PvE when it wouldn't affect the players who actually enjoy PvP: and that is that they deep down know that such an instance would probably reduce their PvP population significantly, as it would halt the conveyor belt of fresh meat lured into PvP by those publicized Alliance War skills. But that is my opinion, solely that. I do not assume to speak for anybody else.

DHale

Right after VO and IA jewelry drops in rewards of the worthy.

BuddyAces

Zyrudin wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Honestly, these threads are stupid. I'm not a big pvp'er at all. Outside of getting certain abilities on certain toons I have yet to actually go into pvp to pvp (not max cp so I really don't bother yet haha). Light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, champion points set up for pve....I'm basically a wet dream for anyone looking for an easy kill. With that being said, IT IS NOT HARD TO GET PVP SKILLS. Seriously, it's not. Here's some real simple and easy steps to get up to caltrops fast:

1. Join a group. Like it might take you a lil bit to get into a group but you will get into a group. It's honestly not that hard. Type into zone chat every now and then looking for a group to join. Most of the times you will see someone saying "Type lfg or X or *insert keyword here* for auto invite". Just type the magic word and voila, you have a party. Or find out where the action is and go where everyone else is and someone will be yelling what to type for an invite. Follow your newly found zerg group.

2. Now that you've found a group (remember, you're a pve'er who hates pvp) just sit back and leech. Yeah, I said it. Leech your lil ol' heart out. If you have a healy toon go ahead and heal everyone in sight. If you're a heavy armor level 20 tank...grab a damn healing staff and put a point into your healy ability and run around healing people for 20 points. You're leeching and nobody is seriously going to notice you're not doing *** on purpose since you're a low level...they expect you not to be doing *** because you're a low level. If you have any range abilities just spam a simple attack at the enemy. Never leave your zerg. Your zerg is your protection.

3. Buy wall and door repair kits to repair *** after your zerg takes a keep. When you get some AP go spend it on some big war machines to help take down keep walls and doors. At least you're doing something now other than just plain up leeching. Your zerg is your friend, they will be doing this multiple times.

There is absolutely nothing hard about getting those pvp skills. Follow those 3 easy to do things and you'll have your caltrops (or whatever you're after) in no time. If I can do it at low lvl with no survivability and and still hardly any understanding on PVP at all, then anyone can do this.

@BuddyAces

Your suggestions are appreciated, but the deeper issue is that you have presented the tediousness of people who have no interest in PvP have to go through to get a few useful skills for PvE (which makes no sense either). It is more a workaround than a proper solution.

So, the solution could be to have different equivalent skills opened for PvE skill lines (such as undaunted, mages or fighter's guilds) and set the alliance war skills for PvP only. Do the same separation to gear, except for crafted gear, to make crafting a thing again. Add a stash box to Cyrodiil's faction base where one can store their own PvP-only gear. That way, PvP would be its own reward and PvP'ers wouldn't need to grind in PvE to get their competitive gear (nor the other way around).

While we are at it, as I suggested on a different post, make a PvE Cyrodill campaign set as a series of 20-man trials questline, where you have objectives step by step that require teamwork mechanics (as trials do) but against NPC's of other factions armies. The map is already there, so that should be less work and time investment.

Players need choice: if you want to mainly PvP you are entitled to get your proper rewards without having to PvE, when you achieve something. If you want to mainly PvE, the same, get what you need after achieving something without having to PvP.

The point I'm trying to make is that its not as bad as what people make it out to be. You can literally grind out warhorn in 6 hours (I know folks can do it quicker). Caltrops is a wee bit of an investment depending how "hard" you grind for it. My steps posted above will make it easier.

This is an MMO. Is it really all that bad if you have to dedicate a few hours a night for maybe a week to get a skill that will last you the rest of your eso life? To top it off you never have to go back into pvp.

Silver_Strider

Just as an FYI
It is possible to get to Mages Guild 5 thru nothing but books found in PvP

Doing all the Delves in Cyrodiil and getting the achievements for them will level Undaunted to 3

You can level Fighters Guild to max just by clearing out some of the undead infested Delves and Dolmens throughout Cyrodiil periodically, albeit it would be slow going unless you actually grind. The Dolmen Generals give good FG experience so if you get lucky, it might not be terrible either.

Again, just an FYI

Zyrudin

BuddyAces wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make is that its not as bad as what people make it out to be. You can literally grind out warhorn in 6 hours (I know folks can do it quicker). Caltrops is a wee bit of an investment depending how "hard" you grind for it. My steps posted above will make it easier.

This is an MMO. Is it really all that bad if you have to dedicate a few hours a night for maybe a week to get a skill that will last you the rest of your eso life? To top it off you never have to go back into pvp.

Oh, I get it, @BuddyAces

Still, that last sentence of yours, that I made bold above, really sums it up, doesn't it?
If there is no intention of ever doing something again, should a game you paid for force you to "dedicate a few hours a night for maybe a week" to do something you dislike, find boring, hate, or whatever?

Maybe there is more of an argument regarding the need to have Vigor and Warhorn for PvE than there is one about trying to make people enjoy what they do not. You see? And this comes from the PvE side: this absolute requirement for some skills only found in PvP to be able to do this or that, as if it was the only absolute canon truth.

That is why I defend that AW skills should remain in PvP, as well as the gear in each of the facets where it was acquired, and that a PvE Cyrodiil trials questline or "adventure zone" might be actually a good idea. Rewards given for PvP achievements only to be used in PvP and likewise in PvE.

It is about more options, not less.

Docmandu

Zyrudin wrote: »

What I have been observing in the forums is that people who prefer PvP have a hard time figuring out why the PvP population diminished

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that 2+ years of abysmal server performance doesn't help to keep people interested.

Betheny

Maybe PVE could take the Alliance War skills and PVP could take Undaunted skills in their place Fair swap yes

idk

@raidentenshu_ESO

The skills available in the AvA lines are there by design and will not become available through other means.

That means anyone who wants to be a solid contributed to raids as a tank or healer must do a minimal amount of PvP to obtain WH. Same for stamina DDs for vigor.

It's much easier and faster now than it was less than a year ago. It doesn't take long to obtain the desired skills.

DurzoBlint13

this is all pointless because there is not a single skill in either of the Alliance war skills lines that is NEEDED for anything in this game.

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

William_21 wrote: »

This might be helpful to you or might not.

But farming AP is not that bad and it doesn't take that long to, say, unlock caltrops.

Defending/assaulting keeps gives you a nice amount of AP. You don't have to exactly go toe-to-toe with other players.

With the current Pvpers complaining about killer clothes killing them through proc sets..... mmm nope. I'm not stepping foot into Cyrodiil.

I'm 100% pure PVER

I would like to earn the same skills from a different and more comfortable approach that is in PvE Territory.

just like a lot of people want to earn Undaunted passives without doing stupidly easy dungeons. Or Meteor without mind-numbing lore book hunting (it is far worse on console than you PC guys go through).
ZOS wants people to at least try different aspects of the game so suck it up and put in your 5-6 hours in Cyrodil if you want the skills

KingDuncanVII

PvE'ers have to go to PvP for certain skill(s).

And PvP'ers have to go to PvE for certain skills and sets.

You're not suffering alone.

Blackfyre20

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Just as an FYI
It is possible to get to Mages Guild 5 thru nothing but books found in PvP

Doing all the Delves in Cyrodiil and getting the achievements for them will level Undaunted to 3

You can level Fighters Guild to max just by clearing out some of the undead infested Delves and Dolmens throughout Cyrodiil periodically, albeit it would be slow going unless you actually grind. The Dolmen Generals give good FG experience so if you get lucky, it might not be terrible either.

Again, just an FYI

Mages guild 5 doesn't get me meteor and it's the last few levels that are the worst grind.

This isn't true, you don't level up undaunted from delves or public dungeons achievements.

This would take forever and just farming dolmens in cyrodiil is still PVE. It's the same as farming delves and dolmens in any other zone. Just because it is located in cyrodiil doesn't make it PvP of any kind.

Psilent

Enslaved wrote: »

Hurr Durr I don't want to spend 5-10h in PvP to get all I need because someone will kill me and sit on my face and I will feel violated and muh freedums man.


On the other hand it is pretty normal that PvPers need to grind undaunted skill line for like a month.
Makes perfect sense.

Please guys, I bag you to understand, dying is a part of game, both in PvE and in PvP. And you can farm everything pretty fast. Join PvP, get in Trueflame and who knows, maybe you will like it, maybe you will even learn something. Maybe you will hate it but no matter what, you will get your caltrops, vigor, agressive horn, guard or whatever you desire for PvE.
You get killed-rage. You get zerged-rage. You get ganked-rage. But the feel of accomplishment when you earn skills you like - absolutely priceless.

Just got Undaunted 9 on my DK and it literally took less than a week to go from 3 to 9. That was doing the new Undaunted daily everyday and the two non-dlc pledges.

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

William_21 wrote: »

This might be helpful to you or might not.

But farming AP is not that bad and it doesn't take that long to, say, unlock caltrops.

Defending/assaulting keeps gives you a nice amount of AP. You don't have to exactly go toe-to-toe with other players.

With the current Pvpers complaining about killer clothes killing them through proc sets..... mmm nope. I'm not stepping foot into Cyrodiil.

I'm 100% pure PVER

I would like to earn the same skills from a different and more comfortable approach that is in PvE Territory.

I PvP several times a week and the proc sets are not as bad as the forums make them out to be; sure it's annoying to die, but chances are more high you'll die to a normal skill than a proc set.

Good tips for a beginner in PvP.

1. Go in with around 25k health; once you get better at surviving you can lower it.

2. Run Radiant Magelight; will really help on stopping gank attempts.

3. Wear at least 5 pieces of impen gear and put some points into critical resistance star. (Unless your playing on no CP campaign)

4. Slot CC

5. Put on a resto staff and heal all the players. Buy siege and shoot all the players.

6. Last but not least; don't leave a resource or Keep right away. Stay back for the defense tick. If you just took the keep you can leave right away as the tick happens when the keep flips.

Good luck! Saying all this because I very much doubt ZOS will ever move vigor to another skill line. It's very easy to acquire; it used to require Alliance rank 24!

Hope this helps!!

gard

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Make it so you don't have to do the undaunted in order to get the undaunted passives, and you have a deal! Also Master, and Maelstrom weapons should be a reward for PvP.

IMO

Zyrudin wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Honestly, these threads are stupid. I'm not a big pvp'er at all. Outside of getting certain abilities on certain toons I have yet to actually go into pvp to pvp (not max cp so I really don't bother yet haha). Light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, champion points set up for pve....I'm basically a wet dream for anyone looking for an easy kill. With that being said, IT IS NOT HARD TO GET PVP SKILLS. Seriously, it's not. Here's some real simple and easy steps to get up to caltrops fast:

1. Join a group. Like it might take you a lil bit to get into a group but you will get into a group. It's honestly not that hard. Type into zone chat every now and then looking for a group to join. Most of the times you will see someone saying "Type lfg or X or *insert keyword here* for auto invite". Just type the magic word and voila, you have a party. Or find out where the action is and go where everyone else is and someone will be yelling what to type for an invite. Follow your newly found zerg group.

2. Now that you've found a group (remember, you're a pve'er who hates pvp) just sit back and leech. Yeah, I said it. Leech your lil ol' heart out. If you have a healy toon go ahead and heal everyone in sight. If you're a heavy armor level 20 tank...grab a damn healing staff and put a point into your healy ability and run around healing people for 20 points. You're leeching and nobody is seriously going to notice you're not doing *** on purpose since you're a low level...they expect you not to be doing *** because you're a low level. If you have any range abilities just spam a simple attack at the enemy. Never leave your zerg. Your zerg is your protection.

3. Buy wall and door repair kits to repair *** after your zerg takes a keep. When you get some AP go spend it on some big war machines to help take down keep walls and doors. At least you're doing something now other than just plain up leeching. Your zerg is your friend, they will be doing this multiple times.

There is absolutely nothing hard about getting those pvp skills. Follow those 3 easy to do things and you'll have your caltrops (or whatever you're after) in no time. If I can do it at low lvl with no survivability and and still hardly any understanding on PVP at all, then anyone can do this.

@BuddyAces

Your suggestions are appreciated, but the deeper issue is that you have presented the tediousness of people who have no interest in PvP have to go through to get a few useful skills for PvE (whicvh makes no sense either). It is more a workaround than a proper solution.

So, the solution could be to have different equivalent skills opened for PvE skill lines (such as undaunted, mages or fighter's guilds) and set the alliance war skills for PvP only. Do the same separation to gear, except for crafted gear, to make crafting a thing again. Add a stash box to Cyrodiil's faction base where one can store their own PvP-only gear. That way, PvP would be its own reward and PvP'ers wouldn't need to grind in PvE to get their competitive gear (nor the other way around).

While we are at it, as I suggested on a different post, make a PvE Cyrodill campaign set as a series of 20-man trials questline, where you have objectives step by step that require teamwork mechanics (as trials do) but against NPC's of other factions armies. The map is already there, so that should be less work and time investment.

Players need choice: if you want to mainly PvP you are entitled to get your proper rewards without having to PvE, when you achieve something. If you want to mainly PvE, the same, get what you need after achieving something without having to PvP.

I would go even further and say. If you ONLY PvE, there should be NO disadvantage to you in PvE if you never PvP.

The same should be true for people who only choose to PvP.

How are you at a disadvantage in PVE if you don't PVP? At a disadvantage against who?

Really all skills should be made available to everyone. Levels should be done away with, too. Everyone should just start off with cp561. All tradeskills maxed and research done. The name of the game should be changed to:
The Elder Scrolls Online: Clown Crates Unlimited.

Number_51

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Just as an FYI
It is possible to get to Mages Guild 5 thru nothing but books found in PvP

Doing all the Delves in Cyrodiil and getting the achievements for them will level Undaunted to 3

You can level Fighters Guild to max just by clearing out some of the undead infested Delves and Dolmens throughout Cyrodiil periodically, albeit it would be slow going unless you actually grind. The Dolmen Generals give good FG experience so if you get lucky, it might not be terrible either.

Again, just an FYI

Mages guild 5 doesn't get me meteor and it's the last few levels that are the worst grind.

This isn't true, you don't level up undaunted from delves or public dungeons achievements.

This would take forever and just farming dolmens in cyrodiil is still PVE. It's the same as farming delves and dolmens in any other zone. Just because it is located in cyrodiil doesn't make it PvP of any kind.

It is true, but only minimally (up to level 3 or so as @Silver_Strider said). You can get Dungeon Healer, Greater Dungeon Healer, Dungeon Blocker, Greater Dungeon Blocker, Dungeon Damage Dealer, and Greater Dungeon Damage Dealer in delves and public dungeons. There's also the This One's On Me achievement (awarded for purchasing a drink for the Undaunted companions in each of the 15 Alliance zones). It's been a while, but I think you can get halfway through level 3 undaunted without ever stepping foot in a normal or vet dungeon.

Caveat: Unless something has changed with the Dungeon and Greater Dungeon achievements. As I said, it's been a while.

ETA: There's also the Undaunted dailies now. I hit Undaunted level 7, on a character who's never been in a dungeon, the other day.