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Why 2H weapons not count as 2 set parts?
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STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭1 - Farming just one greatsword with sharpened trait and we are set vs farming two sharpened swords... half the farming time should gain all the benefits? i think not.
2 - Spending 8 gold tempers on one gold sharp greatsword vs spending 16 gold tempers on two gold sharpened swords... half the expense should gain all the benefits? i think not.
3 - 2H weapon users CAN benefit from a 5-5-2 build just fine, if they choose sets where there is a cooldown on one of the 5pc bonuses. For example, a clever alchemist build or a lich build where you have 15s or more run time on the 5pc bonus serves 2h/bow/stave builds just as good as they serve DW builds even with the savings from 1 and 2 above. So its really a case where some sets are better for DW users and such but there are builds where the 2h/bow/staves get all the same benefits plus their already built-in inherent benefits. In other words, differences in results based on choices vs more sameness to let the same sets work the same regardless of choices.
4 - lets face it, the 5-5-2 isnt really the uber-structure that its being portrayed as a great loss to have "lost" for some sets. Many of the top tier builds are not 5-5-2 with monster helms but rather more like 1-5-2-3 or 2-5-2-3 with 1-2 maelstrom wpns, a single 5pc, 3 jewels and 2 monsters, right? once maelstrom weapons factor into the mix the "5-5-2 set count" thing goes mostly out the window though we do run into the OP nature of DW maelstrom daggers. Fix maelDW and then see what you have.
5 - There are other ways to address the diversity issues than making the weapons less distinctive. As part of a crafting proposal to help add unique flavor back to crafting of equipment, i propose allowing crafted sets to drop one of the 2-3-4pc bonuses producing 4pc sets (with the former 5th piece bonus kicking in at 4pc.) that addresses some of the "count" concerns and adds a lot of new builds without making weapons less distinct and weapons choices less meaningful.
6 - Any change this broad needs to be part of a serious overall package of rebalancing the weapons, likely resulting in changing/lowering some of the 2h/bow/staff skills to accomodate or offset any actual gain in power in their use - since playtests and performance analysis until now has factored in the set count issues automatically.
7 - More sameness doesn't lead to more diversity. More meaningful and useful options does lead to more diversity.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Or add an offhand item to aidd to this porpouse
They should. A lot of us (myself included) have complained about this in the past.
Another solution (which it seems you added) would be just to give character builds that use a 2-handed weapon some type of compatible off-hand they can wear, such as a grip or libram etc. that can have a set bonus applied to them.
That would neutralize the criticism that it would cost 2-handers less tempers to improve.
Edited by Jeremy on December 12, 2016 6:24PM2 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Or add an offhand item to aidd to this porpouse
They should. A lot of us (myself included) have complained about this in the past.
Another solution (which it seems you added) would be just to give character builds that use a 2-handed weapon some type of compatible off-hand they can wear, such as a grip or libram etc. that can have a set bonus applied to them.
That would neutralize the criticism that it would cost 2-handers less tempers to improve.
I would agree that if the choice was between just adding a second slot bonus to 2h/bow/staves and adding a second item to those skill lines, the latter is preferable - as long as other reductions/adjustments also accompany it.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."1 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Current system seems fine to me.
You want two 5 piece bonuses? Build appropriately.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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gard✭✭✭✭✭Because Magicka users dont have DW like stamina users have, its unfair stamina can use 2 sets and a monster helm but magicka users cant.
I can't even
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JSilva88Soul ShrivenBlackfyre20 wrote: »This thread is a perfect example of the deterioration of communication between ZOS and the community. I would imagine we would stop seeing threads like this pop up every 3-4 days if ZOS would just release one single statement somewhere on the forums saying "We are looking at changing this, what do you guys think? *poll*" or "We have discussed this and think that 2h should remain as one set piece" and that would be that, everything condensed into one thread where there can be a constructive discussion.
Threads like this would not continue if there was a disclaimer to search for existing threads before starting a new one... please see this poll that was already created. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2991862#Comment_2991862Edited by JSilva88 on December 12, 2016 6:32PM0 -
Fodore✭✭✭✭why should necklaces not get two since rings get two?
See how crazy that sounds.
A ring/necklace doesn't take up 2 slots like a 2h does... This is what is being argued... 2h = 2 slots which should be 2 set pieces. ring/necklace = 1 slot so only 1 set piece...Before judging a man walk a mile in his shoes.After that who cares?They're a mile away and you've got their shoes.1 -
Fodore✭✭✭✭Dral_Shady wrote: »I wouldnt mind a wand+shield option for magicka users.
sounds spicy hehehehe, would be cool but I feel like wrobel would mess it up somehow... be it making the skills for it stam based or making it way too op.
we can dream, but wrobel cannot apply properly so our dreams will stay dreamsBefore judging a man walk a mile in his shoes.After that who cares?They're a mile away and you've got their shoes.0 -
Riejael✭✭✭✭✭Here's a better solution. Condense weapons. There is no longer a Primary and Secondary slot. Just a weapon slot.
Instead of shields and dualwield, you have Double Weapons and Weapon and Shield as singular items (Woodworking makes the Weapon/Shield as well as Staves as normal). This is done in Final Fantasy XIV and other MMOs.
Now all weapons count as one. If it messes up a previous build, well as someone else said, "build appropriately."1 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »
I think both of you didn't put much thought into this. Only one necklace can be equipped at a time
N
That is why it is funny.
O0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Only two???vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »But people can actually wear two necklaces...
Yeah, yeah... if we wanted it all realistic, we could have eight rings and a dozend necklaces... but they went with one per location (neck/hand). Maybe too close proximity interferes with the enchantments? Who knows...
Back to the dead horse, yeah, two handed weapons have drawbacks - in that you miss out in the offhand set slot.
That's how it is. Advantage in range or damage, drawback in lost set slot.
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Valen_Byte✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Because it is one piece of a set not two...***Dixon Kay MagDK FORMER EMPEROR***Deca Dix MagDK FORMER EMPORER***Valonious MagPlar FORMER EMPEROR***
GM of BYTE
MAY YOUR DEATHS BE SWIFT, AND YOUR LOAD SCREENS LONG.
And alien tears will fill for him, Pity’s long-broken urn, For his mourners will be outcast men, And outcasts always mourn0 -
Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Valen_Byte wrote: »Because it is one piece of a set not two...
But it takes two slots...1 -
Valen_Byte✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Valen_Byte wrote: »Because it is one piece of a set not two...
But it takes two slots...
It takes one slot...the other is empty.***Dixon Kay MagDK FORMER EMPEROR***Deca Dix MagDK FORMER EMPORER***Valonious MagPlar FORMER EMPEROR***
GM of BYTE
MAY YOUR DEATHS BE SWIFT, AND YOUR LOAD SCREENS LONG.
And alien tears will fill for him, Pity’s long-broken urn, For his mourners will be outcast men, And outcasts always mourn0 -
Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Valen_Byte wrote: »Valen_Byte wrote: »Because it is one piece of a set not two...
But it takes two slots...
It takes one slot...the other is empty.
If the other is empty then why can't I put another thing in that slot?
Therefore a 2H weap uses TWO slots and should count as TWO set pieces.
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vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
Only two???vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »But people can actually wear two necklaces...
Yeah, yeah... if we wanted it all realistic, we could have eight rings and a dozend necklaces... but they went with one per location (neck/hand). Maybe too close proximity interferes with the enchantments? Who knows...
Back to the dead horse, yeah, two handed weapons have drawbacks - in that you miss out in the offhand set slot.
That's how it is. Advantage in range or damage, drawback in lost set slot.
I love me some Mr. T!1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Or add an offhand item to aidd to this porpouse
They should. A lot of us (myself included) have complained about this in the past.
Another solution (which it seems you added) would be just to give character builds that use a 2-handed weapon some type of compatible off-hand they can wear, such as a grip or libram etc. that can have a set bonus applied to them.
That would neutralize the criticism that it would cost 2-handers less tempers to improve.
I would agree that if the choice was between just adding a second slot bonus to 2h/bow/staves and adding a second item to those skill lines, the latter is preferable - as long as other reductions/adjustments also accompany it.
Although, it would be interesting to see the reaction of all the maelstrom staff wielders currently in play when overnight they found out their proc chance for their staves went to 50% until they returned to maelstrom to farm an orb otr headpiece of sharpened trait as well.
bet they would be thrilled with that overnight change-up given that they could unequip the maelstroms and get a second normal sets 5pc in return!
bet there would be parades of rejoicing.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."1 -
Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Or add an offhand item to aidd to this porpouse
They should. A lot of us (myself included) have complained about this in the past.
Another solution (which it seems you added) would be just to give character builds that use a 2-handed weapon some type of compatible off-hand they can wear, such as a grip or libram etc. that can have a set bonus applied to them.
That would neutralize the criticism that it would cost 2-handers less tempers to improve.
I would agree that if the choice was between just adding a second slot bonus to 2h/bow/staves and adding a second item to those skill lines, the latter is preferable - as long as other reductions/adjustments also accompany it.
Although, it would be interesting to see the reaction of all the maelstrom staff wielders currently in play when overnight they found out their proc chance for their staves went to 50% until they returned to maelstrom to farm an orb otr headpiece of sharpened trait as well.
bet they would be thrilled with that overnight change-up given that they could unequip the maelstroms and get a second normal sets 5pc in return!
bet there would be parades of rejoicing.
That's another reason why they would be better off making a 2H count as two set pieces.0 -
Vyle_Byte✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the other is empty then why can't I put another thing in that slot?
Therefore a 2H weap uses TWO slots and should count as TWO set pieces.
You have to think of it more as, those slots being your hands, what they are holding. 2 slots, 2 hands, you cannot wield a 2h sword with 1 hand, you must you both. It is the weapon itself that gives the bonus and its only one piece. Therefore it cannot count as 2pcs.
Member of the Old GuardMother of the Byte FamilyVyle Byte||Ivana Byte||Vyible Byte||Hakate Vampler Former EMPRESS BWB||Haan Zolo {Retired} (He swung first)||Lunari ||Wardyn Chalyk Tahno||Dirti Dianah||Bonnie||
Viva la Byte1 -
Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Realism has no place in game combat if it adversely interferes with combat effectiveness.2 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »
And how would you dual wield 2 hand weapons. Hell let's make bows the same, I wanna shoot my bow with one hand a a great sword in the other. Arnold friggin Schwarzenegger style. It's called 2h for a reason, it takes 2 hands. It's a trade off just like everything else in the game. By your statement, why not let us wear 10 rings, 2 different monster shoulders.0 -
Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stopnaggin wrote: »It's a trade off
Why is it a tradeoff? They make two weaps count as a 2H in power, yet two weaps also get to add two set items while a 2H only adds one set item.
It's no tradeoff, it's a ripoff.
A 2H should count as two set items.1 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Because it's not two set parts?V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Why did you choose a 2h? I chose mine, when I used it, because of the power it had. Now I use dw because I prefer the dps it gives my playing style. You are comparing a 250 lb fighter going against a 150 lb feather weight. The lighter guy may hit you and move alot, but all it takes is that one good shot from the heavyweight.
All skills in this game have trade offs. As was stated above it cost twice as much in terms of upgrading and farming. Adding some piece to 2h will not make it any better, if they did they will have to adjust things and nerf 2h to equalize it.
2h seems to work just fine in pvp. So it appears to not be too broken.0 -
DurzoBlint13✭✭✭✭Stopnaggin wrote: »It's a trade off
Why is it a tradeoff? They make two weaps count as a 2H in power, yet two weaps also get to add two set items while a 2H only adds one set item.
It's no tradeoff, it's a ripoff.
A 2H should count as two set items.
it IS a trade off. ALL of these arguments and their counters can be seen already in any of the dozens of other threads on this topic. There are advantages to 2H that just do not exist in the DW skill line. If they gave 2H 2 gear slots they would have to rework the entire DW tree to make it comparable.1 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It comes down to making people choose.
If everything works the same what is the point of choices?
Want 2 five piece bonuses? Run one of the two weapon lines that makes it happen. Both of these weapon lines have actually proven to work for magicka builds as well in some cases = BONUS!
Want big heavy hits? Sacrifice a bonus and get the DPS that way.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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