Callous2208 wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »Khaos_Bane wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »China has nothing to do with ZOS. They are suppressing their people end of sentence. Precious poster was probably correct about keeping money in the country.
Now ESO is a game, and ZOS is in charge of that game. They do need to make money to fund the game and it's employees. How they do that is entirely up to them. I don't like the crown crates, for me it's not worth the reward without knowing the odds. For some it is different. I'm not going to get into the gambling addiction side of things. All that does is fuel further argument and invites insulting and childish remarks.
Yes ESO can make money, it's perfectly fine, I sub, and buy things from the Crown store. What I will not do is gamble for said items without knowing the odds. I believe, IMHO, they could be making money without these crates. Countless other games make plenty of money through DLC, add on packs or whatever, forza comes to mind, car packs add on content. They have a successful franchise . All the while I don't remember one random crate or chance drop that you had to pay real cash for. I would gladly spend my money on car packs and track packs, expansions and such. Because I knew exactly what I was buying up front.
Agree 100%. I think the crates look terrible IMO, there is nothing there that I want or spend an incredible amount of money on getting.
Yet. To survive using this system as funding, they will need to find a way so that folks like you spend cash on crates. If you're just a tough sell and cosmetics will never get you off your wallet, they'll need to add whatever that thing is that you so desire. BiS gear? Flying purple people eater mounts?
By that same note every mmo would end up p2w. But that's not how it goes. Not everyone purchases extra items and zos doesn't expect everyone to. I don't like cosmetics and never purchased a single one until loot crates, but I love loot crates and the mounts inside them are better than any I've seen yet.
Luckily they don't add bis items to cash shop just because a couple people don't want to purchase cosmetics.
China new law doesn't effect eso anyways.
Again, yet. I don't know what they'll add in the future, neither do you. If they follow the normal gamble box, cash shop dependent model that most mmos do, then it is safe to assume they will add these things eventually. Perhaps not best in slot right away, you need to gradually condition your player base to get comfortable with the idea of non cosmetic things in the cs/crate first. To your first statement, well, sorry to burst your bubble but a great many f2p or non mandatory sub mmos do in fact end up becoming p2w. I'm not crying or gritting my teeth over it, that's just how the model works.
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »MyNameIsElias wrote: »China being pro consumer, strange times we live inanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »MyNameIsElias wrote: »China being pro consumer, strange times we live in
The "pro-consumer" might as well be a side effect, not the primary goal of the regulation.
Regardless, with so many Western devs exploiting players and turning gaming into a money-making racket, it has to sting a bit that the so called "free market" is having to be shown the way by a communist regime.
'money-making racket' sometimes I wonder if this forum thinks zos runs the game for philanthropic reasons.
Get out of here with this nonsense rhetoric. No one ever expects any business to operate out of pocket, but we also expect they not try to rip us off or gouge us for every single dollar. They should *earn* their money, not exploit for it.
But, i guess going by your lone comment you wouldn't see an issue if any business made millions even if it caused the death of someone. You know cause it's 'just business'
how are they gouging you for every single dollar and how are they ripping you off?
does zos's ninja brigade come round and put an arrow to your knee and force you to participate?
its no secret that the Chinese government does whatever it can to restrict access to gambling and keep more of Chinese citizens money inside China, this is simply an extension of that spun in such a way to make it look like its for the Chinese people. Video game addiction is a huge issue in China, same with gambling, the government does not like money going outside the country. This has more to do with controlling its citizens in the long run than being any kind of good step forward, unless you like oppression at least. I prefer freedom. The issue is much bigger than what its made out to be, while I think its one positive step, when you look at the bigger picture its hard pressed to argue its for the good of its people, and not about creating roadblocks to keep Chinese money inside china while operating in a global economy. Sometimes you need to see the forest through the trees.
http://www.businessinsider.com/xi-declares-war-on-global-gambling-firms-2015-2
NordSwordnBoard wrote: »MyNameIsElias wrote: »China being pro consumer, strange times we live inanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »MyNameIsElias wrote: »China being pro consumer, strange times we live in
The "pro-consumer" might as well be a side effect, not the primary goal of the regulation.
Regardless, with so many Western devs exploiting players and turning gaming into a money-making racket, it has to sting a bit that the so called "free market" is having to be shown the way by a communist regime.
'money-making racket' sometimes I wonder if this forum thinks zos runs the game for philanthropic reasons.
Get out of here with this nonsense rhetoric. No one ever expects any business to operate out of pocket, but we also expect they not try to rip us off or gouge us for every single dollar. They should *earn* their money, not exploit for it.
But, i guess going by your lone comment you wouldn't see an issue if any business made millions even if it caused the death of someone. You know cause it's 'just business'
It is naive to believe that a corporation would stop making a profit from you for moral reasons.
Yes, it is "just business"
no video, but this explains the formula quite well:
https://youtu.be/wIdmkETuWeM
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »That's not exactly how things work. To do business in certain countries you frequently need to follow their regulations, regardless of if the servers reside in that country or not. See a lot of the recent hoops that social networks are having to jump through to get access to the Chinese or Russian markets.
IANAL, so I am unsure exactly how this new regulation will apply to ZOS, but it's certainly not as simple as "no server, no problem."
The situation of ESO in China is very simple though : it doesn't exist.
China requires by law that any online game operator is based in China. ZOS is not based nor represented in China. As a result, ZOS is not allowed to sell ESO in China and Chinese gamers are not allowed to play ESO. This is ensured via governmental firewalls that prevent connections. If you are in China and want to play ESO, you must use a VPN, that makes you look as if you were connecting from elsewhere. That is, to play in clandestinity. Laws do not apply, per definition, to clandestine activities. End of story.
In case you don't know, chinese internet users have to use VPN for many internet activities, because the government decides what they should or should not do on the internet and has the means to restrict / forbid access if people don't use a VPN.
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »the crates are not a lottery.
they are a blind purchase.
caveat emptor.
Chattel property. Duty of care. I'm sure we could go on forever citing laws that might apply for either argument.
it is only chattel if you own it. if you purchased physical media you own that. but as far as the game is concerned your only right is a license to play it, you own nothing of it.
duty of care is about ensuring the safety of people who are engaged in any situation with relation to their physical well being. if i run a casino i have to ensure that the premises are 'safe' in terms of structural integrity and fire safety. that any refreshments are sound.
in all things..... not just this.
the onus is on the buyer to be aware of what they are purchasing.
caveat emptor.
Regardless, with so many Western devs exploiting players and turning gaming into a money-making racket, it has to sting a bit that the so called "free market" is having to be shown the way by a communist regime.
Yes, dumb laws exist. But so do good laws and good government-funded or supported insitutions and initatives that benefit us all. It would be great if we were all the very best of people, always kind and fair out of our own volition - but we are not, so I'm not a fan of a completely hands-off government. Every time I see someone harping on about how the government is the root of all evil, I'm reminded of the clip "What have the Romans ever done for us?"Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Well that's simply absurd.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Government getting involved in anything is always bad news .
Is it ? Many of these laws started with good intentions .
http://www.dumblaws.com/newest-laws
http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/california
Khaos_Bane wrote: »MyNameIsElias wrote: »China being pro consumer, strange times we live inanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »MyNameIsElias wrote: »China being pro consumer, strange times we live in
The "pro-consumer" might as well be a side effect, not the primary goal of the regulation.
Regardless, with so many Western devs exploiting players and turning gaming into a money-making racket, it has to sting a bit that the so called "free market" is having to be shown the way by a communist regime.
Hey, they need to fund their game some way. There are real people with real families behind this game. We want to see it continue to grow, that is why I choose to subscribe. I'm glad they also put in other forms of spending money on the game so it doesn't always have to be in sub fees. NONE of the items in the crates make your character better, so these crates aren't required.
People need to have some personal responsibility and decide whether or not it's good for them.
redspecter23 wrote: »It's a shame that government has to make a law forcing game companies to do the right thing.
redspecter23 wrote: »It's a shame that government has to make a law forcing game companies to do the right thing.
The truth - demonstrating through history time and again - is that companies will always do what's in their own interests regardless of the legal and ethical implications. Only regulation and a series of checks and balances keeps companies in line, and even then, companies will exploit any loophole that they can.
redspecter23 wrote: »It's a shame that government has to make a law forcing game companies to do the right thing.
The truth - demonstrating through history time and again - is that companies will always do what's in their own interests regardless of the legal and ethical implications. Only regulation and a series of checks and balances keeps companies in line, and even then, companies will exploit any loophole that they can.
Half truth actually. If that. Plus a number of false assumptions. There's a lot that needs corrected in that statement, but I fear doing so will send this thread way off course and deep into territory that the mods don't seem to care for.
Either way, caveat emptor kind of falls flat in anything but a legal argument when the product for sale itself is inappropriate. For example, if someone was selling a fake medicine, like a homeopathic "cure", and people bought it and were harmed by its use, I would personally find the person selling the fake medicine to be at fault. While the legal system still has to catch up on that, I also feel that the legal system has to catch up on selling self-contained artificial risk, like gambling or these gambling boxes. At no point in history should we have looked at games of chance and gone "hmmm, we should monetize that". It's reprehensible.
MyNameIsElias wrote: »China being pro consumer, strange times we live inanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »MyNameIsElias wrote: »China being pro consumer, strange times we live in
The "pro-consumer" might as well be a side effect, not the primary goal of the regulation.
Regardless, with so many Western devs exploiting players and turning gaming into a money-making racket, it has to sting a bit that the so called "free market" is having to be shown the way by a communist regime.
Do you work for free?
If not, why would you expect a company and the people behind it to do it? It's a business after all.
Stopnaggin wrote: »Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Prof_Bawbag wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »Khaos_Bane wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »China has nothing to do with ZOS. They are suppressing their people end of sentence. Precious poster was probably correct about keeping money in the country.
Now ESO is a game, and ZOS is in charge of that game. They do need to make money to fund the game and it's employees. How they do that is entirely up to them. I don't like the crown crates, for me it's not worth the reward without knowing the odds. For some it is different. I'm not going to get into the gambling addiction side of things. All that does is fuel further argument and invites insulting and childish remarks.
Yes ESO can make money, it's perfectly fine, I sub, and buy things from the Crown store. What I will not do is gamble for said items without knowing the odds. I believe, IMHO, they could be making money without these crates. Countless other games make plenty of money through DLC, add on packs or whatever, forza comes to mind, car packs add on content. They have a successful franchise . All the while I don't remember one random crate or chance drop that you had to pay real cash for. I would gladly spend my money on car packs and track packs, expansions and such. Because I knew exactly what I was buying up front.
Agree 100%. I think the crates look terrible IMO, there is nothing there that I want or spend an incredible amount of money on getting.
Yet. To survive using this system as funding, they will need to find a way so that folks like you spend cash on crates. If you're just a tough sell and cosmetics will never get you off your wallet, they'll need to add whatever that thing is that you so desire. BiS gear? Flying purple people eater mounts?
Hmm dlc, mounts, hair styles, name change tokens, riding lesson a few pets, now if the sold an anti rng potion I would snatched those in a heartbeat.
I couldnt care less about the crates, I bought a 15 pack, got nothing special, so to mee there weren't worth the investment. I know some people will buy them, and that's fine, but to me there isn't enough value. I sub, use my crowns on what I want to buy, I will buy a chance to get something. I wouldn't go to Mc Donalds and hand them 10 dollars and tell them just throw a bunch of crap in there I'll take it. With my luck I'd end up with a box full of straw wrappers.
True enough. But it would seem all of those things you listed have not been, and will not be enough. Crates are the hope for the future, holdouts gotta have a reason to spend money on them.
If they truly want hold outs to buy them they need to have a bether return rate, either through adjusting the drop rate or uping the crown gem conversion rate. Adding things that I can't use is not going to get me to buy them, ahem argonian skin and head dress.
A better return rate defeats the purpose though. You would be getting the items you wanted for at or less than the price they would be outright on the CS. They have to be tuned so that the majority of folks end up spending twice as much or more, than they would have on the item if it were available for immediate purchase.
It would also still go against the very thing people are claiming to be against - imposed gambling. People can't go around denouncing gambling, worrying about all those poor souls who have addictive personalities, then buy them just because the odds are suddenly stacked heavily in their favour. Even if the odds were upped to 99% a lot of people would be shown up for what they were - hypocrites that only hid behind their faux concern for others because in reality, they were only ever interested in themselves. After all, gambling is gambling. I'd ruin my laptop with all the coffee I'd have to spit out due to the shock revelation that they weren't ever concerned about little Timmy or that poor down in his luck Jonny "no mates" McSucker
hypocrites?
generally people are only interested in what they perceive as being the best outcome for themselves.
altruism is complicated.
You've obviously not been keeping up to speed on all things crown crates. We're all very, very concerned about all those people who will spend their kids college funds just so they get that damn sparkly mount. If that's not bad enough, they'll deprive their kids of food and also encourage those kids to spend all their parents credit on their cards. We're not concerned about ourselves, some of us are morally outraged on behalf of someone else we wouldn't generally give a flying **** about.
You're right, everyone everywhere merely uses compassion as a vehicle to stroke their own egos and serve their own ends. Everyone is actually a self-absorbed cynic playing a professional victim on the interwebs for the lulz.
Or, maybe, there is this thing called projecting that you are doing right now.
I'm sure it's one of those two things at least.
Aye, I'm zipped up the back. The simple fact of the matter is, if I lost my last penny on a crown crate you wouldn't lose a wink of sleep. Why? Because you don't give one jot about me. It's easy to claim we can show compassion for the well-being of others on the net that we don't know from Adam, it's another thing entirely to actually feel actual compassion. I mean, if someone on here that you claimed to harbour some sort of compassion for never showed up again on the forums, would you even care? Your life doesn't impact on mine and vice versa, so why would you even care what I could potentially get up to? I suspect it's a very similar feeling to reading about some sad story in a newspaper. You feel compassion whilst reading the article, then turn the page and carry on as you were.
You are absolutely correct, I wouldn't lose sleep over you losing your last penny. One story on here started all the addiction talk. Some had a genuine concern for a friend. You have no idea how many people here have had friends or family with addiction problems. So your generalization only serves to make your argument more pure, which it is not. Maybe you have no compassion, I don't know you, so it easy for you to assume everyone feel the same as you. This isn't the case for everyone else.
FloppyTouch wrote: »Oh look another crown Crate topic from @Cazzy
This is interesting I wonder if more laws will start to pop up in other countries I'm sure America is working on something. I would like to know my odds TBH and also know that they are not being change when ever the company feels like it or if they do change odds they have to post it.