Is ESO available in China? New law regarding Loot Boxes!

jedtb16_ESO

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

China has nothing to do with ZOS. They are suppressing their people end of sentence. Precious poster was probably correct about keeping money in the country.

Now ESO is a game, and ZOS is in charge of that game. They do need to make money to fund the game and it's employees. How they do that is entirely up to them. I don't like the crown crates, for me it's not worth the reward without knowing the odds. For some it is different. I'm not going to get into the gambling addiction side of things. All that does is fuel further argument and invites insulting and childish remarks.

Yes ESO can make money, it's perfectly fine, I sub, and buy things from the Crown store. What I will not do is gamble for said items without knowing the odds. I believe, IMHO, they could be making money without these crates. Countless other games make plenty of money through DLC, add on packs or whatever, forza comes to mind, car packs add on content. They have a successful franchise . All the while I don't remember one random crate or chance drop that you had to pay real cash for. I would gladly spend my money on car packs and track packs, expansions and such. Because I knew exactly what I was buying up front.

Agree 100%. I think the crates look terrible IMO, there is nothing there that I want or spend an incredible amount of money on getting.

Yet. To survive using this system as funding, they will need to find a way so that folks like you spend cash on crates. If you're just a tough sell and cosmetics will never get you off your wallet, they'll need to add whatever that thing is that you so desire. BiS gear? Flying purple people eater mounts?

Hmm dlc, mounts, hair styles, name change tokens, riding lesson a few pets, now if the sold an anti rng potion I would snatched those in a heartbeat.

I couldnt care less about the crates, I bought a 15 pack, got nothing special, so to mee there weren't worth the investment. I know some people will buy them, and that's fine, but to me there isn't enough value. I sub, use my crowns on what I want to buy, I will buy a chance to get something. I wouldn't go to Mc Donalds and hand them 10 dollars and tell them just throw a bunch of crap in there I'll take it. With my luck I'd end up with a box full of straw wrappers.

True enough. But it would seem all of those things you listed have not been, and will not be enough. Crates are the hope for the future, holdouts gotta have a reason to spend money on them.

If they truly want hold outs to buy them they need to have a bether return rate, either through adjusting the drop rate or uping the crown gem conversion rate. Adding things that I can't use is not going to get me to buy them, ahem argonian skin and head dress.

A better return rate defeats the purpose though. You would be getting the items you wanted for at or less than the price they would be outright on the CS. They have to be tuned so that the majority of folks end up spending twice as much or more, than they would have on the item if it were available for immediate purchase.

It would also still go against the very thing people are claiming to be against - imposed gambling. People can't go around denouncing gambling, worrying about all those poor souls who have addictive personalities, then buy them just because the odds are suddenly stacked heavily in their favour. Even if the odds were upped to 99% a lot of people would be shown up for what they were - hypocrites that only hid behind their faux concern for others because in reality, they were only ever interested in themselves. After all, gambling is gambling. I'd ruin my laptop with all the coffee I'd have to spit out due to the shock revelation that they weren't ever concerned about little Timmy or that poor down in his luck Jonny "no mates" McSucker

hypocrites?

generally people are only interested in what they perceive as being the best outcome for themselves.

altruism is complicated.

WhiteMage

I have the feeling that these RNG lockboxes come from the top level of ESO, higher up than any of the developers have a say in. Actually, I think I'll choose to believe that, unless given reason to think otherwise. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt here; not many people want to make a liar out of themselves, after all. Much less a fool out of their game.

Profit motivation can be a real ***. Someone up high wants them in, at our expense. Many of us want them gone, which by some twisted logic is at their expense. Posting the odds would probably make a good compromise, and you know what? If they made pacrooti say something like "Purchase crates responsibly" then my faith in humanity would be restored.

For a time.

Prof_Bawbag

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

China has nothing to do with ZOS. They are suppressing their people end of sentence. Precious poster was probably correct about keeping money in the country.

Now ESO is a game, and ZOS is in charge of that game. They do need to make money to fund the game and it's employees. How they do that is entirely up to them. I don't like the crown crates, for me it's not worth the reward without knowing the odds. For some it is different. I'm not going to get into the gambling addiction side of things. All that does is fuel further argument and invites insulting and childish remarks.

Yes ESO can make money, it's perfectly fine, I sub, and buy things from the Crown store. What I will not do is gamble for said items without knowing the odds. I believe, IMHO, they could be making money without these crates. Countless other games make plenty of money through DLC, add on packs or whatever, forza comes to mind, car packs add on content. They have a successful franchise . All the while I don't remember one random crate or chance drop that you had to pay real cash for. I would gladly spend my money on car packs and track packs, expansions and such. Because I knew exactly what I was buying up front.

Agree 100%. I think the crates look terrible IMO, there is nothing there that I want or spend an incredible amount of money on getting.

Yet. To survive using this system as funding, they will need to find a way so that folks like you spend cash on crates. If you're just a tough sell and cosmetics will never get you off your wallet, they'll need to add whatever that thing is that you so desire. BiS gear? Flying purple people eater mounts?

Hmm dlc, mounts, hair styles, name change tokens, riding lesson a few pets, now if the sold an anti rng potion I would snatched those in a heartbeat.

I couldnt care less about the crates, I bought a 15 pack, got nothing special, so to mee there weren't worth the investment. I know some people will buy them, and that's fine, but to me there isn't enough value. I sub, use my crowns on what I want to buy, I will buy a chance to get something. I wouldn't go to Mc Donalds and hand them 10 dollars and tell them just throw a bunch of crap in there I'll take it. With my luck I'd end up with a box full of straw wrappers.

True enough. But it would seem all of those things you listed have not been, and will not be enough. Crates are the hope for the future, holdouts gotta have a reason to spend money on them.

If they truly want hold outs to buy them they need to have a bether return rate, either through adjusting the drop rate or uping the crown gem conversion rate. Adding things that I can't use is not going to get me to buy them, ahem argonian skin and head dress.

A better return rate defeats the purpose though. You would be getting the items you wanted for at or less than the price they would be outright on the CS. They have to be tuned so that the majority of folks end up spending twice as much or more, than they would have on the item if it were available for immediate purchase.

It would also still go against the very thing people are claiming to be against - imposed gambling. People can't go around denouncing gambling, worrying about all those poor souls who have addictive personalities, then buy them just because the odds are suddenly stacked heavily in their favour. Even if the odds were upped to 99% a lot of people would be shown up for what they were - hypocrites that only hid behind their faux concern for others because in reality, they were only ever interested in themselves. After all, gambling is gambling. I'd ruin my laptop with all the coffee I'd have to spit out due to the shock revelation that they weren't ever concerned about little Timmy or that poor down in his luck Jonny "no mates" McSucker

hypocrites?

generally people are only interested in what they perceive as being the best outcome for themselves.

altruism is complicated.

You've obviously not been keeping up to speed on all things crown crates. We're all very, very concerned about all those people who will spend their kids college funds just so they get that damn sparkly mount. If that's not bad enough, they'll deprive their kids of food and also encourage those kids to spend all their parents credit on their cards. We're not concerned about ourselves, some of us are morally outraged on behalf of someone else we wouldn't generally give a flying **** about.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I would like ZOS to do things voluntarily an not buy force from any government . A show of goodwill to players by letting them know the odds would be a nice gesture in my opinion.

Hhhhmmmm..... let's just admit for a second that ZOS would do that.... how would they do it ? I for one wouldn't believe them. They can stealth modify the RNG drop tables as they see fit, whenever they want, as often as they want. I don't see any way they could make it a trustable information, really...

starkerealm

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

The "pro-consumer" might as well be a side effect, not the primary goal of the regulation.

Regardless, with so many Western devs exploiting players and turning gaming into a money-making racket, it has to sting a bit that the so called "free market" is having to be shown the way by a communist regime.

The so called free market is guided by an "invisible hand", and China is not governed by anything Karl Marx was getting at.

Granted, it's been awhile since I was in school, but I'm pretty sure the Invisible Hand was Adam Smith, not Marx.

jedtb16_ESO

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

China has nothing to do with ZOS. They are suppressing their people end of sentence. Precious poster was probably correct about keeping money in the country.

Now ESO is a game, and ZOS is in charge of that game. They do need to make money to fund the game and it's employees. How they do that is entirely up to them. I don't like the crown crates, for me it's not worth the reward without knowing the odds. For some it is different. I'm not going to get into the gambling addiction side of things. All that does is fuel further argument and invites insulting and childish remarks.

Yes ESO can make money, it's perfectly fine, I sub, and buy things from the Crown store. What I will not do is gamble for said items without knowing the odds. I believe, IMHO, they could be making money without these crates. Countless other games make plenty of money through DLC, add on packs or whatever, forza comes to mind, car packs add on content. They have a successful franchise . All the while I don't remember one random crate or chance drop that you had to pay real cash for. I would gladly spend my money on car packs and track packs, expansions and such. Because I knew exactly what I was buying up front.

Agree 100%. I think the crates look terrible IMO, there is nothing there that I want or spend an incredible amount of money on getting.

Yet. To survive using this system as funding, they will need to find a way so that folks like you spend cash on crates. If you're just a tough sell and cosmetics will never get you off your wallet, they'll need to add whatever that thing is that you so desire. BiS gear? Flying purple people eater mounts?

Hmm dlc, mounts, hair styles, name change tokens, riding lesson a few pets, now if the sold an anti rng potion I would snatched those in a heartbeat.

I couldnt care less about the crates, I bought a 15 pack, got nothing special, so to mee there weren't worth the investment. I know some people will buy them, and that's fine, but to me there isn't enough value. I sub, use my crowns on what I want to buy, I will buy a chance to get something. I wouldn't go to Mc Donalds and hand them 10 dollars and tell them just throw a bunch of crap in there I'll take it. With my luck I'd end up with a box full of straw wrappers.

True enough. But it would seem all of those things you listed have not been, and will not be enough. Crates are the hope for the future, holdouts gotta have a reason to spend money on them.

If they truly want hold outs to buy them they need to have a bether return rate, either through adjusting the drop rate or uping the crown gem conversion rate. Adding things that I can't use is not going to get me to buy them, ahem argonian skin and head dress.

A better return rate defeats the purpose though. You would be getting the items you wanted for at or less than the price they would be outright on the CS. They have to be tuned so that the majority of folks end up spending twice as much or more, than they would have on the item if it were available for immediate purchase.

It would also still go against the very thing people are claiming to be against - imposed gambling. People can't go around denouncing gambling, worrying about all those poor souls who have addictive personalities, then buy them just because the odds are suddenly stacked heavily in their favour. Even if the odds were upped to 99% a lot of people would be shown up for what they were - hypocrites that only hid behind their faux concern for others because in reality, they were only ever interested in themselves. After all, gambling is gambling. I'd ruin my laptop with all the coffee I'd have to spit out due to the shock revelation that they weren't ever concerned about little Timmy or that poor down in his luck Jonny "no mates" McSucker

hypocrites?

generally people are only interested in what they perceive as being the best outcome for themselves.

altruism is complicated.

You've obviously not been keeping up to speed on all things crown crates. We're all very, very concerned about all those people who will spend their kids college funds just so they get that damn sparkly mount. If that's not bad enough, they'll deprive their kids of food and also encourage those kids to spend all their parents credit on their cards. We're not concerned about ourselves, some of us are morally outraged on behalf of someone else we wouldn't generally give a flying **** about.

there is, apparently, a lot to unpick in that.

after a fraction of a milliseconds consideration i' m inclined to call bs on all of it.

wayfarerx

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

China has nothing to do with ZOS. They are suppressing their people end of sentence. Precious poster was probably correct about keeping money in the country.

Now ESO is a game, and ZOS is in charge of that game. They do need to make money to fund the game and it's employees. How they do that is entirely up to them. I don't like the crown crates, for me it's not worth the reward without knowing the odds. For some it is different. I'm not going to get into the gambling addiction side of things. All that does is fuel further argument and invites insulting and childish remarks.

Yes ESO can make money, it's perfectly fine, I sub, and buy things from the Crown store. What I will not do is gamble for said items without knowing the odds. I believe, IMHO, they could be making money without these crates. Countless other games make plenty of money through DLC, add on packs or whatever, forza comes to mind, car packs add on content. They have a successful franchise . All the while I don't remember one random crate or chance drop that you had to pay real cash for. I would gladly spend my money on car packs and track packs, expansions and such. Because I knew exactly what I was buying up front.

Agree 100%. I think the crates look terrible IMO, there is nothing there that I want or spend an incredible amount of money on getting.

Yet. To survive using this system as funding, they will need to find a way so that folks like you spend cash on crates. If you're just a tough sell and cosmetics will never get you off your wallet, they'll need to add whatever that thing is that you so desire. BiS gear? Flying purple people eater mounts?

Hmm dlc, mounts, hair styles, name change tokens, riding lesson a few pets, now if the sold an anti rng potion I would snatched those in a heartbeat.

I couldnt care less about the crates, I bought a 15 pack, got nothing special, so to mee there weren't worth the investment. I know some people will buy them, and that's fine, but to me there isn't enough value. I sub, use my crowns on what I want to buy, I will buy a chance to get something. I wouldn't go to Mc Donalds and hand them 10 dollars and tell them just throw a bunch of crap in there I'll take it. With my luck I'd end up with a box full of straw wrappers.

True enough. But it would seem all of those things you listed have not been, and will not be enough. Crates are the hope for the future, holdouts gotta have a reason to spend money on them.

If they truly want hold outs to buy them they need to have a bether return rate, either through adjusting the drop rate or uping the crown gem conversion rate. Adding things that I can't use is not going to get me to buy them, ahem argonian skin and head dress.

A better return rate defeats the purpose though. You would be getting the items you wanted for at or less than the price they would be outright on the CS. They have to be tuned so that the majority of folks end up spending twice as much or more, than they would have on the item if it were available for immediate purchase.

It would also still go against the very thing people are claiming to be against - imposed gambling. People can't go around denouncing gambling, worrying about all those poor souls who have addictive personalities, then buy them just because the odds are suddenly stacked heavily in their favour. Even if the odds were upped to 99% a lot of people would be shown up for what they were - hypocrites that only hid behind their faux concern for others because in reality, they were only ever interested in themselves. After all, gambling is gambling. I'd ruin my laptop with all the coffee I'd have to spit out due to the shock revelation that they weren't ever concerned about little Timmy or that poor down in his luck Jonny "no mates" McSucker

hypocrites?

generally people are only interested in what they perceive as being the best outcome for themselves.

altruism is complicated.

You've obviously not been keeping up to speed on all things crown crates. We're all very, very concerned about all those people who will spend their kids college funds just so they get that damn sparkly mount. If that's not bad enough, they'll deprive their kids of food and also encourage those kids to spend all their parents credit on their cards. We're not concerned about ourselves, some of us are morally outraged on behalf of someone else we wouldn't generally give a flying **** about.

You're right, everyone everywhere merely uses compassion as a vehicle to stroke their own egos and serve their own ends. Everyone is actually a self-absorbed cynic playing a professional victim on the interwebs for the lulz.

Or, maybe, there is this thing called projecting that you are doing right now.

I'm sure it's one of those two things at least.

Rohamad_Ali

Rosveen wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Government getting involved in anything is always bad news .

Well that's simply absurd.

Is it ? Many of these laws started with good intentions .

http://www.dumblaws.com/newest-laws

http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/california

jedtb16_ESO

the crates are not a lottery.

they are a blind purchase.

caveat emptor.

Abeille

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I would like ZOS to do things voluntarily an not buy force from any government . A show of goodwill to players by letting them know the odds would be a nice gesture in my opinion.

Hhhhmmmm..... let's just admit for a second that ZOS would do that.... how would they do it ? I for one wouldn't believe them. They can stealth modify the RNG drop tables as they see fit, whenever they want, as often as they want. I don't see any way they could make it a trustable information, really...

Whether we believe them or not is our concern.
Showing us the odds is theirs.

I understand the lack of trust. And still, I would rather see them publishing the odds for the ones who still trust them.

Prof_Bawbag

wayfarerx wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

China has nothing to do with ZOS. They are suppressing their people end of sentence. Precious poster was probably correct about keeping money in the country.

Now ESO is a game, and ZOS is in charge of that game. They do need to make money to fund the game and it's employees. How they do that is entirely up to them. I don't like the crown crates, for me it's not worth the reward without knowing the odds. For some it is different. I'm not going to get into the gambling addiction side of things. All that does is fuel further argument and invites insulting and childish remarks.

Yes ESO can make money, it's perfectly fine, I sub, and buy things from the Crown store. What I will not do is gamble for said items without knowing the odds. I believe, IMHO, they could be making money without these crates. Countless other games make plenty of money through DLC, add on packs or whatever, forza comes to mind, car packs add on content. They have a successful franchise . All the while I don't remember one random crate or chance drop that you had to pay real cash for. I would gladly spend my money on car packs and track packs, expansions and such. Because I knew exactly what I was buying up front.

Agree 100%. I think the crates look terrible IMO, there is nothing there that I want or spend an incredible amount of money on getting.

Yet. To survive using this system as funding, they will need to find a way so that folks like you spend cash on crates. If you're just a tough sell and cosmetics will never get you off your wallet, they'll need to add whatever that thing is that you so desire. BiS gear? Flying purple people eater mounts?

Hmm dlc, mounts, hair styles, name change tokens, riding lesson a few pets, now if the sold an anti rng potion I would snatched those in a heartbeat.

I couldnt care less about the crates, I bought a 15 pack, got nothing special, so to mee there weren't worth the investment. I know some people will buy them, and that's fine, but to me there isn't enough value. I sub, use my crowns on what I want to buy, I will buy a chance to get something. I wouldn't go to Mc Donalds and hand them 10 dollars and tell them just throw a bunch of crap in there I'll take it. With my luck I'd end up with a box full of straw wrappers.

True enough. But it would seem all of those things you listed have not been, and will not be enough. Crates are the hope for the future, holdouts gotta have a reason to spend money on them.

If they truly want hold outs to buy them they need to have a bether return rate, either through adjusting the drop rate or uping the crown gem conversion rate. Adding things that I can't use is not going to get me to buy them, ahem argonian skin and head dress.

A better return rate defeats the purpose though. You would be getting the items you wanted for at or less than the price they would be outright on the CS. They have to be tuned so that the majority of folks end up spending twice as much or more, than they would have on the item if it were available for immediate purchase.

It would also still go against the very thing people are claiming to be against - imposed gambling. People can't go around denouncing gambling, worrying about all those poor souls who have addictive personalities, then buy them just because the odds are suddenly stacked heavily in their favour. Even if the odds were upped to 99% a lot of people would be shown up for what they were - hypocrites that only hid behind their faux concern for others because in reality, they were only ever interested in themselves. After all, gambling is gambling. I'd ruin my laptop with all the coffee I'd have to spit out due to the shock revelation that they weren't ever concerned about little Timmy or that poor down in his luck Jonny "no mates" McSucker

hypocrites?

generally people are only interested in what they perceive as being the best outcome for themselves.

altruism is complicated.

You've obviously not been keeping up to speed on all things crown crates. We're all very, very concerned about all those people who will spend their kids college funds just so they get that damn sparkly mount. If that's not bad enough, they'll deprive their kids of food and also encourage those kids to spend all their parents credit on their cards. We're not concerned about ourselves, some of us are morally outraged on behalf of someone else we wouldn't generally give a flying **** about.

You're right, everyone everywhere merely uses compassion as a vehicle to stroke their own egos and serve their own ends. Everyone is actually a self-absorbed cynic playing a professional victim on the interwebs for the lulz.

Or, maybe, there is this thing called projecting that you are doing right now.

I'm sure it's one of those two things at least.

Aye, I'm zipped up the back. The simple fact of the matter is, if I lost my last penny on a crown crate you wouldn't lose a wink of sleep. Why? Because you don't give one jot about me. It's easy to claim we can show compassion for the well-being of others on the net that we don't know from Adam, it's another thing entirely to actually feel actual compassion. I mean, if someone on here that you claimed to harbour some sort of compassion for never showed up again on the forums, would you even care? Your life doesn't impact on mine and vice versa, so why would you even care what I could potentially get up to? I suspect it's a very similar feeling to reading about some sad story in a newspaper. You feel compassion whilst reading the article, then turn the page and carry on as you were.

Rohamad_Ali

Call me crazy but Our government here doesn't put laws into action unless there's money to be made and taxes to be raised to fund it . I would love for all players to have the information about crown crates but at what expense ? I'm not a fan of taxes and government does not work for free . In fact they usually charge more then private sector . All for a video game ? Common ... I wish we didn't have these stupid crates too but let's not lose perspective .

NordSwordnBoard

Cazzy wrote: »

Back on topic; it seems like the video gaming media has high praise for the move in changing the law in China, so it does make me wonder if they may adopt it in other countries too. Many companies are using loot boxes now so it's becoming "the norm". This might mean the law will need to adapt to the changes too.

I think this will have the opposite effect people are looking for. In a nutshell, the Chinese govt is constantly manipulating the value of their currency. This law is beneficial to that practice of control.

Since Western countries practice a "free market" purposely inflating currency can have disastrous effects. Economically, the Chinese are adapting to Capitalism's practices while maintaining as much control as possible without falling behind.

The motivation of this law is not to benefit people, but currency. We already have enough of that going on here.

Citizens in Western countries have more opportunity/rights for making laws to benefit people happen than any Chinese citizen does. Why haven't we taken care of this already if we have better means available to us?

Like the trip giveaway, if ESO kept crown crates out of countries where they are regulated simply to avoid the regulations, there would be people here complaining about not being able to buy crates and blaming ESO and their lawmakers.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Abeille wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I would like ZOS to do things voluntarily an not buy force from any government . A show of goodwill to players by letting them know the odds would be a nice gesture in my opinion.

Hhhhmmmm..... let's just admit for a second that ZOS would do that.... how would they do it ? I for one wouldn't believe them. They can stealth modify the RNG drop tables as they see fit, whenever they want, as often as they want. I don't see any way they could make it a trustable information, really...

Whether we believe them or not is our concern.
Showing us the odds is theirs.

I understand the lack of trust. And still, I would rather see them publishing the odds for the ones who still trust them.

I disagree. It wouldn't change a thing for those who don't trust, so it would be useless in this case, but it would have an incredible manipulative power over those who do trust them. At least as it is now, people know that they don't know the odds.
If they're told that the odds are (let's say) 20% they might think it's high and buy more.

And even if this 20% is true, most people will believe that buying 5 crates will guarantee them a drop - which again is not the case. (I'm terribad at probabilities, always have been, but I know that's not how it works).

I see how publishing the odds would look like a more "honest" or "transparent" or "informed" deal... but it would open the door to even worse practices. Just my opinion.

Recremen

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

the crates are not a lottery.

they are a blind purchase.

caveat emptor.

Chattel property. Duty of care. I'm sure we could go on forever citing laws that might apply for either argument.

Totalitarian

starkerealm wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

The "pro-consumer" might as well be a side effect, not the primary goal of the regulation.

Regardless, with so many Western devs exploiting players and turning gaming into a money-making racket, it has to sting a bit that the so called "free market" is having to be shown the way by a communist regime.

The so called free market is guided by an "invisible hand", and China is not governed by anything Karl Marx was getting at.

Granted, it's been awhile since I was in school, but I'm pretty sure the Invisible Hand was Adam Smith, not Marx.

What he's trying to say is that China is not a true Communist nation, which is indeed true. Similarly, the Soviet Union was not Communist either. Just because you have a Communist party in power does not mean that you are Communist. The two token 'Communist' nations became little more than capitalist governments. The only real Communist aspects we see are things such as land reform. I remember in my college history class, I had to read about people complaining about how the Soviets were a lie, and they had abandoned everything they stood for, and had become government capitalists. There were indeed some people happy to see Communists try and do something new, but they ended up simply doing the same old thing of capitalism.

Even then, Marx predicted a revolution among the industrial working class, not the Russian and Chinese peasantry. The Soviet Union used Communism to rapidly industrialize, while in the PRC, Mao modified Communism to support land reform, and that caused big disagreement with the Soviets. Stalin supported the Nationalist Chinese, not the Communists, in the big civil war over there. The Soviet Union and the PRC even got into a war, and that's how China got in close with the West. Also, once Mao died, then more Leninist Communists came in, and started to industrialize China into what it is today.

Communist parties are very good at kicking out old governments, which is what has happened in China, the Russian Empire, Cuba, and Vietnam. When it actually comes to actually being Communist, governments choke, and prefer the money that capitalism brings in, and settle on providing basic services to citizens.


You could definitely find Communist-inspired ideas in ESO, and that goes with everything written down. If you so much as see something that says: "share", just bring out a red flag with a sickle and hammer and start waving it around. Marxist appeals are very common in any kind of literary work, and are something that everyone should pay attention to. That does not imply that the writers are Communist though.

wayfarerx

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

China has nothing to do with ZOS. They are suppressing their people end of sentence. Precious poster was probably correct about keeping money in the country.

Now ESO is a game, and ZOS is in charge of that game. They do need to make money to fund the game and it's employees. How they do that is entirely up to them. I don't like the crown crates, for me it's not worth the reward without knowing the odds. For some it is different. I'm not going to get into the gambling addiction side of things. All that does is fuel further argument and invites insulting and childish remarks.

Yes ESO can make money, it's perfectly fine, I sub, and buy things from the Crown store. What I will not do is gamble for said items without knowing the odds. I believe, IMHO, they could be making money without these crates. Countless other games make plenty of money through DLC, add on packs or whatever, forza comes to mind, car packs add on content. They have a successful franchise . All the while I don't remember one random crate or chance drop that you had to pay real cash for. I would gladly spend my money on car packs and track packs, expansions and such. Because I knew exactly what I was buying up front.

Agree 100%. I think the crates look terrible IMO, there is nothing there that I want or spend an incredible amount of money on getting.

Yet. To survive using this system as funding, they will need to find a way so that folks like you spend cash on crates. If you're just a tough sell and cosmetics will never get you off your wallet, they'll need to add whatever that thing is that you so desire. BiS gear? Flying purple people eater mounts?

Hmm dlc, mounts, hair styles, name change tokens, riding lesson a few pets, now if the sold an anti rng potion I would snatched those in a heartbeat.

I couldnt care less about the crates, I bought a 15 pack, got nothing special, so to mee there weren't worth the investment. I know some people will buy them, and that's fine, but to me there isn't enough value. I sub, use my crowns on what I want to buy, I will buy a chance to get something. I wouldn't go to Mc Donalds and hand them 10 dollars and tell them just throw a bunch of crap in there I'll take it. With my luck I'd end up with a box full of straw wrappers.

True enough. But it would seem all of those things you listed have not been, and will not be enough. Crates are the hope for the future, holdouts gotta have a reason to spend money on them.

If they truly want hold outs to buy them they need to have a bether return rate, either through adjusting the drop rate or uping the crown gem conversion rate. Adding things that I can't use is not going to get me to buy them, ahem argonian skin and head dress.

A better return rate defeats the purpose though. You would be getting the items you wanted for at or less than the price they would be outright on the CS. They have to be tuned so that the majority of folks end up spending twice as much or more, than they would have on the item if it were available for immediate purchase.

It would also still go against the very thing people are claiming to be against - imposed gambling. People can't go around denouncing gambling, worrying about all those poor souls who have addictive personalities, then buy them just because the odds are suddenly stacked heavily in their favour. Even if the odds were upped to 99% a lot of people would be shown up for what they were - hypocrites that only hid behind their faux concern for others because in reality, they were only ever interested in themselves. After all, gambling is gambling. I'd ruin my laptop with all the coffee I'd have to spit out due to the shock revelation that they weren't ever concerned about little Timmy or that poor down in his luck Jonny "no mates" McSucker

hypocrites?

generally people are only interested in what they perceive as being the best outcome for themselves.

altruism is complicated.

You've obviously not been keeping up to speed on all things crown crates. We're all very, very concerned about all those people who will spend their kids college funds just so they get that damn sparkly mount. If that's not bad enough, they'll deprive their kids of food and also encourage those kids to spend all their parents credit on their cards. We're not concerned about ourselves, some of us are morally outraged on behalf of someone else we wouldn't generally give a flying **** about.

You're right, everyone everywhere merely uses compassion as a vehicle to stroke their own egos and serve their own ends. Everyone is actually a self-absorbed cynic playing a professional victim on the interwebs for the lulz.

Or, maybe, there is this thing called projecting that you are doing right now.

I'm sure it's one of those two things at least.

Aye, I'm zipped up the back. The simple fact of the matter is, if I lost my last penny on a crown crate you wouldn't lose a wink of sleep. Why? Because you don't give one jot about me. It's easy to claim we can show compassion for the well-being of others on the net that we don't know from Adam, it's another thing entirely to actually feel actual compassion. I mean, if someone on here that you claimed to harbour some sort of compassion for never showed up again on the forums, would you even care? Your life doesn't impact on mine and vice versa, so why would you even care what I could potentially get up to? I suspect it's a very similar feeling to reading about some sad story in a newspaper. You feel compassion whilst reading the article, then turn the page and carry on as you were.

It is entirely possible to feel compassion and empathy in a general sense, it is not required that it be directed at a specific individual. This is particularly true when it comes to situations that resonate with one's personal life experience.

I have seen first hand what impulsive, addiction-driven disorders can do to individuals, their family and friends. So yes, I do feel compassion for people in similar situations even if I never meet them or learn their names. You may find it difficult to sympathize with people in a bad position, but that in no way implies that everyone else is just like you in that respect.

NordSwordnBoard

starkerealm wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

The "pro-consumer" might as well be a side effect, not the primary goal of the regulation.

Regardless, with so many Western devs exploiting players and turning gaming into a money-making racket, it has to sting a bit that the so called "free market" is having to be shown the way by a communist regime.

The so called free market is guided by an "invisible hand", and China is not governed by anything Karl Marx was getting at.

Granted, it's been awhile since I was in school, but I'm pretty sure the Invisible Hand was Adam Smith, not Marx.

You are correct! As you can see in my quote above, I associate the invisible hand with the free market and then point out how Chinese communism is very different than what Karl Marx was promoting. Although regulation exists everywhere in "free markets", Western capitalist economies do not manipulate their currency or markets to the degree China does. I thought it was obvious that China doesn't have a "free market" due to their practice of interfering with the "invisible hand".

jedtb16_ESO

Recremen wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

the crates are not a lottery.

they are a blind purchase.

caveat emptor.

Chattel property. Duty of care. I'm sure we could go on forever citing laws that might apply for either argument.

it is only chattel if you own it. if you purchased physical media you own that. but as far as the game is concerned your only right is a license to play it, you own nothing of it.

duty of care is about ensuring the safety of people who are engaged in any situation with relation to their physical well being. if i run a casino i have to ensure that the premises are 'safe' in terms of structural integrity and fire safety. that any refreshments are sound.

in all things..... not just this.

the onus is on the buyer to be aware of what they are purchasing.

caveat emptor.

Stopnaggin

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

China has nothing to do with ZOS. They are suppressing their people end of sentence. Precious poster was probably correct about keeping money in the country.

Now ESO is a game, and ZOS is in charge of that game. They do need to make money to fund the game and it's employees. How they do that is entirely up to them. I don't like the crown crates, for me it's not worth the reward without knowing the odds. For some it is different. I'm not going to get into the gambling addiction side of things. All that does is fuel further argument and invites insulting and childish remarks.

Yes ESO can make money, it's perfectly fine, I sub, and buy things from the Crown store. What I will not do is gamble for said items without knowing the odds. I believe, IMHO, they could be making money without these crates. Countless other games make plenty of money through DLC, add on packs or whatever, forza comes to mind, car packs add on content. They have a successful franchise . All the while I don't remember one random crate or chance drop that you had to pay real cash for. I would gladly spend my money on car packs and track packs, expansions and such. Because I knew exactly what I was buying up front.

Agree 100%. I think the crates look terrible IMO, there is nothing there that I want or spend an incredible amount of money on getting.

Yet. To survive using this system as funding, they will need to find a way so that folks like you spend cash on crates. If you're just a tough sell and cosmetics will never get you off your wallet, they'll need to add whatever that thing is that you so desire. BiS gear? Flying purple people eater mounts?

Hmm dlc, mounts, hair styles, name change tokens, riding lesson a few pets, now if the sold an anti rng potion I would snatched those in a heartbeat.

I couldnt care less about the crates, I bought a 15 pack, got nothing special, so to mee there weren't worth the investment. I know some people will buy them, and that's fine, but to me there isn't enough value. I sub, use my crowns on what I want to buy, I will buy a chance to get something. I wouldn't go to Mc Donalds and hand them 10 dollars and tell them just throw a bunch of crap in there I'll take it. With my luck I'd end up with a box full of straw wrappers.

True enough. But it would seem all of those things you listed have not been, and will not be enough. Crates are the hope for the future, holdouts gotta have a reason to spend money on them.

If they truly want hold outs to buy them they need to have a bether return rate, either through adjusting the drop rate or uping the crown gem conversion rate. Adding things that I can't use is not going to get me to buy them, ahem argonian skin and head dress.

A better return rate defeats the purpose though. You would be getting the items you wanted for at or less than the price they would be outright on the CS. They have to be tuned so that the majority of folks end up spending twice as much or more, than they would have on the item if it were available for immediate purchase.

It would also still go against the very thing people are claiming to be against - imposed gambling. People can't go around denouncing gambling, worrying about all those poor souls who have addictive personalities, then buy them just because the odds are suddenly stacked heavily in their favour. Even if the odds were upped to 99% a lot of people would be shown up for what they were - hypocrites that only hid behind their faux concern for others because in reality, they were only ever interested in themselves. After all, gambling is gambling. I'd ruin my laptop with all the coffee I'd have to spit out due to the shock revelation that they weren't ever concerned about little Timmy or that poor down in his luck Jonny "no mates" McSucker

hypocrites?

generally people are only interested in what they perceive as being the best outcome for themselves.

altruism is complicated.

You've obviously not been keeping up to speed on all things crown crates. We're all very, very concerned about all those people who will spend their kids college funds just so they get that damn sparkly mount. If that's not bad enough, they'll deprive their kids of food and also encourage those kids to spend all their parents credit on their cards. We're not concerned about ourselves, some of us are morally outraged on behalf of someone else we wouldn't generally give a flying **** about.

You're right, everyone everywhere merely uses compassion as a vehicle to stroke their own egos and serve their own ends. Everyone is actually a self-absorbed cynic playing a professional victim on the interwebs for the lulz.

Or, maybe, there is this thing called projecting that you are doing right now.

I'm sure it's one of those two things at least.

Aye, I'm zipped up the back. The simple fact of the matter is, if I lost my last penny on a crown crate you wouldn't lose a wink of sleep. Why? Because you don't give one jot about me. It's easy to claim we can show compassion for the well-being of others on the net that we don't know from Adam, it's another thing entirely to actually feel actual compassion. I mean, if someone on here that you claimed to harbour some sort of compassion for never showed up again on the forums, would you even care? Your life doesn't impact on mine and vice versa, so why would you even care what I could potentially get up to? I suspect it's a very similar feeling to reading about some sad story in a newspaper. You feel compassion whilst reading the article, then turn the page and carry on as you were.

You are absolutely correct, I wouldn't lose sleep over you losing your last penny. One story on here started all the addiction talk. Some had a genuine concern for a friend. You have no idea how many people here have had friends or family with addiction problems. So your generalization only serves to make your argument more pure, which it is not. Maybe you have no compassion, I don't know you, so it easy for you to assume everyone feel the same as you. This isn't the case for everyone else.

JamilaRaj

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

The "pro-consumer" might as well be a side effect, not the primary goal of the regulation.

Regardless, with so many Western devs exploiting players and turning gaming into a money-making racket, it has to sting a bit that the so called "free market" is having to be shown the way by a communist regime.

Hey, they need to fund their game some way.

Some way. It that implies scamming, then a) surprise, surprise, The Sacred Cow of Microtransactions is fundamentally flawed, and b) they should stop funding their "game" and just fold.

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

There are real people with real families behind this game.

All the more reason not to to this. It is not like they are making money by damaging other people they do not give a !@#$% about. That would be perfectly rational, if despicable, and is probably mindset of upper echelons. But it is not entirely improbable that regular workers or their families may end up being also consumers. I can not very well imagine a healthy person spending a day designing a new scam, then come home and recommend the "game" to his/her own kid.

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

We want to see it continue to grow, that is why I choose to subscribe. I'm glad they also put in other forms of spending money on the game so it doesn't always have to be in sub fees. NONE of the items in the crates make your character better, so these crates aren't required.

People need to have some personal responsibility and decide whether or not it's good for them.

Cazzy wrote: »

Starting next year China are enforcing a law that states loot boxes in games must disclose odds. This is a good step forward!

What a filthy commie diversion! The Party just wants us to feel morally inferior.

jedtb16_ESO

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

The "pro-consumer" might as well be a side effect, not the primary goal of the regulation.

Regardless, with so many Western devs exploiting players and turning gaming into a money-making racket, it has to sting a bit that the so called "free market" is having to be shown the way by a communist regime.

Hey, they need to fund their game some way.

Some way. It that implies scamming, then a) surprise, surprise, The Sacred Cow of Microtransactions is fundamentally flawed, and b) they should stop funding their "game" and just fold.

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

There are real people with real families behind this game.

All the more reason not to to this. It is not like they are making money by damaging other people they do not give a !@#$% about. That would be perfectly rational, if despicable, and is probably mindset of upper echelons. But it is not entirely improbable that regular workers or their families may end up being also consumers. I can not very well imgaine a healthy person spending a day designing a new scam, then come home and recommend the "game" to his/her own kid.

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

We want to see it continue to grow, that is why I choose to subscribe. I'm glad they also put in other forms of spending money on the game so it doesn't always have to be in sub fees. NONE of the items in the crates make your character better, so these crates aren't required.

People need to have some personal responsibility and decide whether or not it's good for them.

have you heard of merchant bankers?

Skcarkden

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

The "pro-consumer" might as well be a side effect, not the primary goal of the regulation.

Regardless, with so many Western devs exploiting players and turning gaming into a money-making racket, it has to sting a bit that the so called "free market" is having to be shown the way by a communist regime.

'money-making racket' sometimes I wonder if this forum thinks zos runs the game for philanthropic reasons.

Get out of here with this nonsense rhetoric. No one ever expects any business to operate out of pocket, but we also expect they not try to rip us off or gouge us for every single dollar. They should *earn* their money, not exploit for it.

But, i guess going by your lone comment you wouldn't see an issue if any business made millions even if it caused the death of someone. You know cause it's 'just business'

alexkdd99

Callous2208 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

China has nothing to do with ZOS. They are suppressing their people end of sentence. Precious poster was probably correct about keeping money in the country.

Now ESO is a game, and ZOS is in charge of that game. They do need to make money to fund the game and it's employees. How they do that is entirely up to them. I don't like the crown crates, for me it's not worth the reward without knowing the odds. For some it is different. I'm not going to get into the gambling addiction side of things. All that does is fuel further argument and invites insulting and childish remarks.

Yes ESO can make money, it's perfectly fine, I sub, and buy things from the Crown store. What I will not do is gamble for said items without knowing the odds. I believe, IMHO, they could be making money without these crates. Countless other games make plenty of money through DLC, add on packs or whatever, forza comes to mind, car packs add on content. They have a successful franchise . All the while I don't remember one random crate or chance drop that you had to pay real cash for. I would gladly spend my money on car packs and track packs, expansions and such. Because I knew exactly what I was buying up front.

Agree 100%. I think the crates look terrible IMO, there is nothing there that I want or spend an incredible amount of money on getting.

Yet. To survive using this system as funding, they will need to find a way so that folks like you spend cash on crates. If you're just a tough sell and cosmetics will never get you off your wallet, they'll need to add whatever that thing is that you so desire. BiS gear? Flying purple people eater mounts?

By that same note every mmo would end up p2w. But that's not how it goes. Not everyone purchases extra items and zos doesn't expect everyone to. I don't like cosmetics and never purchased a single one until loot crates, but I love loot crates and the mounts inside them are better than any I've seen yet.

Luckily they don't add bis items to cash shop just because a couple people don't want to purchase cosmetics.

China new law doesn't effect eso anyways.

jedtb16_ESO

Skcarkden wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

The "pro-consumer" might as well be a side effect, not the primary goal of the regulation.

Regardless, with so many Western devs exploiting players and turning gaming into a money-making racket, it has to sting a bit that the so called "free market" is having to be shown the way by a communist regime.

'money-making racket' sometimes I wonder if this forum thinks zos runs the game for philanthropic reasons.

Get out of here with this nonsense rhetoric. No one ever expects any business to operate out of pocket, but we also expect they not try to rip us off or gouge us for every single dollar. They should *earn* their money, not exploit for it.

But, i guess going by your lone comment you wouldn't see an issue if any business made millions even if it caused the death of someone. You know cause it's 'just business'

how are they gouging you for every single dollar and how are they ripping you off?

does zos's ninja brigade come round and put an arrow to your knee and force you to participate?

catsgomeow

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

The "pro-consumer" might as well be a side effect, not the primary goal of the regulation.

Regardless, with so many Western devs exploiting players and turning gaming into a money-making racket, it has to sting a bit that the so called "free market" is having to be shown the way by a communist regime.

Hey, they need to fund their game some way. There are real people with real families behind this game. We want to see it continue to grow, that is why I choose to subscribe. I'm glad they also put in other forms of spending money on the game so it doesn't always have to be in sub fees. NONE of the items in the crates make your character better, so these crates aren't required.

People need to have some personal responsibility and decide whether or not it's good for them.

That's true, every company needs to fund its operations and make a profit, this was never in question. But there's more than one way to finance a company and some are more ethical than others.

I would also like to remind you that the primary goal of this game - of any game - is to be enjoyed. Entertainment is the service we buy. Each of us is entertained by different things, it isn't always only the drive to make one's character better in combat. It is very possible that the crown crates might include items vital to someone's entertainment - just ask @Abeille about her cryomancer (thankfully lucky enough to get her ice wolf without RNG).

Yes, I am glad they are funding the game from the crown store and subs. I don't believe there is any ethical issue with the crates either. People can choose to purchase them or not. People have to be accountable for their own actions and take responsibility for their own decisions. There is nothing shady in the crown crates.

You think all the extra money helps the employees? you think they are going to get a payrise with the extra revenue drawn in through gambling?, do you think they are going to have more job security because of this?, do you think the moneymen in suits even care about their employees?, do you think crown crates have any beneficial effect on the game which is an entertainment platform?, not everyone thinks a casino is entertaining i know i dont, i didnt sign up my sub to walk into a casino i signed up to walk into an elder scrolls world, and as you say there is nothing shady "in" the crates, its the crates themselves that are shady.

NordSwordnBoard

Skcarkden wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

China being pro consumer, strange times we live in

The "pro-consumer" might as well be a side effect, not the primary goal of the regulation.

Regardless, with so many Western devs exploiting players and turning gaming into a money-making racket, it has to sting a bit that the so called "free market" is having to be shown the way by a communist regime.

'money-making racket' sometimes I wonder if this forum thinks zos runs the game for philanthropic reasons.

Get out of here with this nonsense rhetoric. No one ever expects any business to operate out of pocket, but we also expect they not try to rip us off or gouge us for every single dollar. They should *earn* their money, not exploit for it.

But, i guess going by your lone comment you wouldn't see an issue if any business made millions even if it caused the death of someone. You know cause it's 'just business'

It is naive to believe that a corporation would stop making a profit from you for moral reasons.

Yes, it is "just business"

no video, but this explains the formula quite well:

https://youtu.be/wIdmkETuWeM

Callous2208

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

China has nothing to do with ZOS. They are suppressing their people end of sentence. Precious poster was probably correct about keeping money in the country.

Now ESO is a game, and ZOS is in charge of that game. They do need to make money to fund the game and it's employees. How they do that is entirely up to them. I don't like the crown crates, for me it's not worth the reward without knowing the odds. For some it is different. I'm not going to get into the gambling addiction side of things. All that does is fuel further argument and invites insulting and childish remarks.

Yes ESO can make money, it's perfectly fine, I sub, and buy things from the Crown store. What I will not do is gamble for said items without knowing the odds. I believe, IMHO, they could be making money without these crates. Countless other games make plenty of money through DLC, add on packs or whatever, forza comes to mind, car packs add on content. They have a successful franchise . All the while I don't remember one random crate or chance drop that you had to pay real cash for. I would gladly spend my money on car packs and track packs, expansions and such. Because I knew exactly what I was buying up front.

Agree 100%. I think the crates look terrible IMO, there is nothing there that I want or spend an incredible amount of money on getting.

Yet. To survive using this system as funding, they will need to find a way so that folks like you spend cash on crates. If you're just a tough sell and cosmetics will never get you off your wallet, they'll need to add whatever that thing is that you so desire. BiS gear? Flying purple people eater mounts?

By that same note every mmo would end up p2w. But that's not how it goes. Not everyone purchases extra items and zos doesn't expect everyone to. I don't like cosmetics and never purchased a single one until loot crates, but I love loot crates and the mounts inside them are better than any I've seen yet.

Luckily they don't add bis items to cash shop just because a couple people don't want to purchase cosmetics.

China new law doesn't effect eso anyways.

Again, yet. I don't know what they'll add in the future, neither do you. If they follow the normal gamble box, cash shop dependent model that most mmos do, then it is safe to assume they will add these things eventually. Perhaps not best in slot right away, you need to gradually condition your player base to get comfortable with the idea of non cosmetic things in the cs/crate first. To your first statement, well, sorry to burst your bubble but a great many f2p or non mandatory sub mmos do in fact end up becoming p2w. I'm not crying or gritting my teeth over it, that's just how the model works.

DocFrost72

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Government getting involved in anything is always bad news .

Well that's simply absurd.

Is it ? Many of these laws started with good intentions .

http://www.dumblaws.com/newest-laws

http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/california

"Tomatoes may not be used in the production of clam chowder". - Massachusetts

Something the government did right.

acw37162

Damn I'd like to see something similar here.