magicka DK and healing - why did they kick me before the dungeon even started?

fiftypercentgrey

So, I'm healing in vets for a while now and I'm doing well. No magicka problems, no healing problems either. DK has nice survivability, support/buffs and I could heal through pretty much anything.
Then I joined some random group for daily vets and they kicked me for being a DK. I wasnt even in the dungeon yet.

Did I miss something? New meta or something else?

Xvorg

fiftypercentgrey wrote: »

So, I'm healing in vets for a while now and I'm doing well. No magicka problems, no healing problems either. DK has nice survivability, support/buffs and I could heal through pretty much anything.
Then I joined some random group for daily vets and they kicked me for being a DK. I wasnt even in the dungeon yet.

Did I miss something? New meta or something else?

There's people too attached to the idea that healer = templar.

Or maybe they had a healer already

Stannum

DKs are very strong healers in PvE and best healers in PvP.

Flowersquisher

its not you, PUG's need templars to sustain there already crappy dps. Try not to take it personal, its just that closed minded mentality of group finder heroes. I've played with alot of mDK's that also tank, and it works awesome

fiftypercentgrey

Thank you for this. I was a bit worried!

Delimber

fiftypercentgrey wrote: »

So, I'm healing in vets for a while now and I'm doing well. No magicka problems, no healing problems either. DK has nice survivability, support/buffs and I could heal through pretty much anything.
Then I joined some random group for daily vets and they kicked me for being a DK. I wasnt even in the dungeon yet.

Did I miss something? New meta or something else?

Last time I checked healers weren't that numerous. Funny they'd ditch you.

Most healers I've had in a group are Templar, and I have had a few DK healers. I don't think I've ever had a NB healer and I did run a Sorc healer for a while. (Even tried out being a healer with a DK)

Reverb

Likely because the dps were stam meta builds and/or the tank was pure stam, and didn't want a healer without shards and repentance. A non templar can help their magicka party members with orbs, siphon and ele drain. Only Templars have stam assist.

Well, there is Master restoration, but it's effect is underwhelming and it requires using cheesy springs.

psychotic13

the problem is that people expect the healer to be a Templar, not that they won't run with a different class healer but a lot of time you get people joining groups as a healer when they're actually a DPS to join a group faster

Shaiba

Reverb wrote: »

Only Templars have stam assist.

Wrong, you said it later BTW. Master Resto Staves and Rkugamz can help non-templar healer who want to specialize in stam assist.

I personnally use the Master resto Staff to assist my stam DPS in vet dungeons/vet trials.

And for vet dungeons if they have really bad issues with their stamina management (only time it happens it's when they're learning how to play on their new char/new build) I can switch to Rkugamz. No tank should have ressources issues, no matter the race/class/ressource. That's one way to figure out if the tank is good or not.

For trials any templar of the team can slot repentance and any magicka templar (DD or second healer) can slot shards. And ofc Master resto staff which is really useful specially in trials.

@fiftypercentgrey you just entered a bad PUG. Kicking someone cause "maybe he disguises himself into a healer but maybe not" is dumb. People should kick only when they're sure the healer sucks or when they're sure that the healer was only a DD who wanted to join a group faster, I don't understand their logic behind that. Don't give up on your DK healer

cpuScientist

Maybe they were farming gear and you were to high/low level for what they wanted. Maybe they got a friend to come along and no longer needed you. Maybe there was the bug that invites many players then kicks them. Maybe they que'd up for the wrong dungeon. Maybe they had a bad run in with you before. Maybe something else. But the fact that you think it's because of you being a DK healer speaks more than them kicking you.

Mag DK healers are neat, but they are just not as good. A few of the little problems are to give Stam back they need to wear a monster helmet which means no extra support set such as infallible worm and the like. Their way of getting major mending, their shield, interferes with the tanks shield. So you keep wiping the tanks double digit shield with your measly one, and some tanks really REALLY hate that. And you have no good burst oh crap heal, now this one only matters with some pug groups, but if all you can do is give me heal over times for a dungeon I'd rather get another dps slot a resto and mutagen the grouo and be done with it or just vigor lol. Not to say there are not benefits to the DK healer.

Healers are just not needed for vet dungeons after you reach a certain point. And for trials you can bring em but a Templar will always be better.

And trust me I hate this. I am not saying this cuase I'm following a meta lol. I get the need to go against the meta bis, My Stam DK is an orc and I don't give a darn when they tell me to go redguard or catsheet.

I love healing on my MagDK. My AOE bar is also my healing bar and I just mow down the adds while keeping everyone topped off perfectly. Feels the most badass of all healers honestly. I find it the funnest. I can still drop dots on boss fights so my dps is still good, and I just insert dots into a healing rotation lol, it's fantastic fun. But, it will never equal a Templar until they change a few things.

cpuScientist

They need to buff the master resto, especially allowing it to work on every tick it's such a measly amount already why add that it only works on one tic. Then if a player already has an igneous shield on them then don't wipe the shiekd, maybe unless it's smaller or something. But I have ran with many shieldKnights and they HATE having their shields wiped especially since some of them can hand out 13k shields to the grouo but nooo me have to have major mending so wipe that and here take this 2k shield instead lol. They dont need a burst heal imo.

But yea but non technical.olar healers and non DK tanks cause I'm sick of the monopoly lol.

Master_Kas

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

DKs are very strong healers in PvE and best healers in PvP.

Best healers in PvP ? Lol.

fiftypercentgrey

@cpuScientist nah. They actually wrote "lol DK healer. kick him" and did. I was kicked before I could even reply. Thats the reason why I was so dumbfounded.

Juhasow

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

DKs are very strong healers in PvE and best healers in PvP.

Yeah....and then You wake up open the game going to dungeon and read ,,Where is repentence?! Where is shard?!"

cpuScientist

fiftypercentgrey wrote: »

@cpuScientist nah. They actually wrote "lol DK healer. kick him" and did. I was kicked before I could even reply. Thats the reason why I was so dumbfounded.

Ahhhhh well now that's different lol. They just bad then. Some do not like non Templar healers cause of shards and repentance as others have said. But for just dungeons lol, who cares at all. You can come and be a stamina healer and I wouldn't give a darn.

Autolycus

They are obviously ignorant and inexperienced. You're better off doing like I did: find a group of people who aren't so ignorant and run with them instead. The overwhelmingly vast majority of random people you will find don't have a lick of sense when it comes to healing. This is a perfect example of people who don't know what they're talking about, but act on it anyway.

But that's just one man's opinion. I've only been healing on a DK since beta, so take it with a grain of salt

Alucardo

Because they can't manage their own stamina and you don't have shards

sneakymitchell

Too many pugs so little time to handle them. Let the pugs be pugs cause they can't survive right.

Delimber

Oh look, we have a healer, well I won't be needing all this sustain stuff cluttering up my bars...seen that a few times lol.

I have dabbled in the healer DK world but only got healing staff up to lvl 40 and re-spec'd to stam DK and back to mDK.

I can see the stone fist heal being a nice direct target heal as it heals the player closest to the enemy.

code65536

Earlier today, one of my guildmates asked for a tank for the vICP pledge. I said I'd come on my alt account.

He was on his main--a mag DK--so I assumed that he'd be DPS. But as it turns out, the other two players were random strangers that he pulled from zone chat, and since he wasn't able to find a healer, he was going to heal on his mag DK. So we have a random DPS with 190CP, another random DPS with around 350CP, me tanking on a nightblade on my alt account with around 350CP, and my guildmate who was healing on his mag DK. We were quite the motely crew.

Things went pretty smoothly, with only two wipes. Yet there are vICP groups in zone chat with people won't even consider you if you're not CP-capped or if you aren't a "real" DK tank or a "real" Templar healer.

The moral of the story is, in the hands of a skilled player, you can make pretty much anything work, even in a dungeon like vICP.

Lokryn

I run a Sorc healer and I always get compliments on my healing. ZOS really needs to move the Templar shards synergy to the Resto Staff tree so every healer has it.

Shader_Shibes

They were *** op. I remember no deathing vWGT not long after it released with a DK healer.

AzuraKin

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

DKs are very strong healers in PvE and best healers in PvP.

rofl templars are da best pvp healers. bol, + heal springs + cleanse + repentance = *** op healer.

Autolycus

AzuraKin wrote: »

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

DKs are very strong healers in PvE and best healers in PvP.

rofl templars are da best pvp healers. bol, + heal springs + cleanse + repentance = *** op healer.

Yeah... we can all do that. I've known many people who say the exact same thing about how effective DK healers are in pvp. A good healer is a good healer, period, and I extend this to every class. Aside from repentance, which I personally have zero troubles working around and still providing ample stam back, there's really not much difference in how we go about it. Oh yeah, and you don't have to be a healer to use repentance, or ritual.

Bandit1215

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

DKs are very strong healers in PvE and best healers in PvP.

Nice joke. You should put that on the official eso joke thread.

idk

@fiftypercentgrey

Many groups want Templars which for most dungeons really is OP.

I have tanked in most dungeons with non Templars and it goes just fine. I have to manage my resources a little better but that's good exercise. If I ended up in a group that kicked the healer because they were not a Templar they'd lose me as well.

Funny thing is, I've done vCoA II on my Templar and couldn't do dps in final boss because we burned him so fast as it was. It was for the death challenge. I then pugged on my sorc healer and the dps wasn't half my previous group. They blamed the issue on me not being a Templar healer and hence couldn't not do as much dps instead of their dps having room for improvement.

Artis

OP, there are only 2 options:

1. It's some sort of a glitch, because too many people complain about such things, when there are no reasons for them to be removed.
2. They were noobs. There's absolutely no reason to remove you from a group before a dungeon even started. Sure, if you in fact turned out to be a bad healer - then yes, but there's no reason to assume you're bad. Every class can perform every role in this game.

Ghost-Shot

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

DKs are very strong healers in PvE and best healers in PvP.

DK's can heal sure, better than sorcs for sure and probably pretty even with NB's, but they do not compare to a templar, healing in PvP makes this even more evident than healing in PvE with a DK. Purify+BoL is too strong to be beat.

scorpiodog

Flowersquisher wrote: »

its not you, PUG's need templars to sustain there already crappy dps. Try not to take it personal, its just that closed minded mentality of group finder heroes. I've played with alot of mDK's that also tank, and it works awesome

Agreed. It's so easy to make a burst high-damage Stamina DPS, but sustainability ... what's that, lol. Isn't that the healer's job to keep everyone's stamina up?

I personally don't consider my DPS builds "good" until I can solo at least one normal group dungeon. For me good healers and tanks are nice to have, but only really necessary on the hardest dungeons.

But when I did try Tanking for a little while I just got tired of crappy DPS always complaining. I think it's worse for healers that they are expected to carry the whole crappy party through a dungeon sometimes.

exeeter702

Shaiba wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Only Templars have stam assist.

Wrong, you said it later BTW. Master Resto Staves and Rkugamz can help non-templar healer who want to specialize in stam assist.

I personnally use the Master resto Staff to assist my stam DPS in vet dungeons/vet trials.

And for vet dungeons if they have really bad issues with their stamina management (only time it happens it's when they're learning how to play on their new char/new build) I can switch to Rkugamz. No tank should have ressources issues, no matter the race/class/ressource. That's one way to figure out if the tank is good or not.

For trials any templar of the team can slot repentance and any magicka templar (DD or second healer) can slot shards. And ofc Master resto staff which is really useful specially in trials.

@fiftypercentgrey you just entered a bad PUG. Kicking someone cause "maybe he disguises himself into a healer but maybe not" is dumb. People should kick only when they're sure the healer sucks or when they're sure that the healer was only a DD who wanted to join a group faster, I don't understand their logic behind that. Don't give up on your DK healer

Carefull shaiba, you, myself and a handfull of others often try to explain the strengths of this games role diversity when it comes to healers.... It never ends well. No matter how feirce this thread will eventually devolve into

"templars are the only real healers"

Stannum

AzuraKin wrote: »

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

DKs are very strong healers in PvE and best healers in PvP.

rofl templars are da best pvp healers. bol, + heal springs + cleanse + repentance = *** op healer.

rofl
bol = only two! targets with high mana cost = useless for groups
springs = everyone has
cleanse = really? locked to area and synergy? when someone in party always has purge?
repentance = in most cases usless as someone allways burn corpses or you cannot get safe to corpses to rely on it

PvP healing is spammable mass shields (DK), spammable mass heal (springs), mass HoTs (energy balls) + purge and barrier when needed
+ you should survive and manage resources (DK is still better calss for this aspect)