Maintenance for the week of January 5:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 5
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 5
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
Crown Store nerdrage megathread
-
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You make a lot of reasonable points, and context is absolutely important here - you're 100% correct that there are far bigger fish to fry thanks to certain current events.
That said, corporate fairness is quite often in the news and for good reason. It might not require a march on parliament, but it has never been out of the ordinary to call out a company for unfair business practices, and these boxes are explicity designed to wring as much money as possible out of customers for as little developer input as possible. The research that has been done on these has demonstrated that people will end up forking out 5, maybe even 10x as many crowns for a product as they should be. So let's keep that in mind too please.
Oh I agree again.
But again, in business, why get people to spend once when they can spend again and again? A prime business tactic.
Those impulse buyers that I touched on are who they are aiming at. Some see through it, some have no interest, and others will buy. Different people do different things.
That reduction of their business tactic doesn't reflect the actual scenario.
The trick is finding the balance between what the costumer is willing to pay and what would scare them away. And when a costumer feels scammed, they leave. Add to that the service declining in quality and regularity because of the shift in development focus and you are brewing failure.
A company has to make money. ZOS already has means to make money, honest means. Why are they doing this, then, if it is so bad for the game in medium and long term? Well, chances are that ESO isn't a long term project anymore. And for someone like me, who loves this franchise and this game and wanted it to last for several years, that kinda sucks.
About the post right before mine (I'm on mobile and can't be bothered to edit it properly to add the quote), the previous outrages were nothing compared to this. I was here, I'm here from the start. The big difference is that on previous discussions, people had actual reasons to defend the practice. Like with crafting bags, to add value to ESO+, since it is much more expensive than buying DLCs directly.
The reasons now to defend this practice are "ZOS needs to make money", like if everything in the game is free and they don't have other sources of income, which is false, and "it's just cosmetic and totally optinal", which completely disregard the effects the RNG boxes had in the development of previous games.Edited by Abeille on November 16, 2016 11:44AMJust so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.2 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You make a lot of reasonable points, and context is absolutely important here - you're 100% correct that there are far bigger fish to fry thanks to certain current events.
That said, corporate fairness is quite often in the news and for good reason. It might not require a march on parliament, but it has never been out of the ordinary to call out a company for unfair business practices, and these boxes are explicity designed to wring as much money as possible out of customers for as little developer input as possible. The research that has been done on these has demonstrated that people will end up forking out 5, maybe even 10x as many crowns for a product as they should be. So let's keep that in mind too please.
Oh I agree again.
But again, in business, why get people to spend once when they can spend again and again? A prime business tactic.
Those impulse buyers that I touched on are who they are aiming at. Some see through it, some have no interest, and others will buy. Different people do different things.
That reduction of their business tactic doesn't reflect the actual scenario.
The trick is finding the balance between what the costumer is willing to pay and what would scare them away. And when a costumer feels scammed, they leave. Add to that the service declining in quality and regularity because of the shift in development focus and you are brewing failure.
A company has to make money. ZOS already has means to make money, honest means. Why are they doing this, then, if it is so bad for the game in medium and long term? Well, chances are that ESO isn't a long term project anymore. And for someone like me, who loves this franchise and this game and wanted it to last for several years, that kinda sucks.
See, I am not sure I agree here.
Guild Wars 2 has many, many transactions in the gem store, including something called "Black Lion Chests"
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest
That game seems to go on and on.
Overwatch has loot crates with skins and cosmetics. They seem okay.
Those are merely a couple of examples of games with transactions such as these that seem perfectly healthy and ongoing.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!0 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you create a fine product, you should want people to buy it. If they are resulting to a manipulative tactic to inrease profits, it is saying that they don't have much pride in what they are creating. They are damaging their reputation with a large portion of their customers to get even greater profits from a minority. I've seen many games release clearly inferior products from what they usually release, but post record profits with rng crates. This is a cancer sweeping through the gaming industry.
The quality in future dlc will decrease as a result of these crates. So will the profits. Low expense with high returns are what they aim to achieve. It's a despicable strategy, and shameful that ZOS is deciding to adopt it.5 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
Not caring IS supporting. I'm hoping people will realize that after everything that happened this year.
Yes, they are coming. But they could come in a less harmful way. Not if people accept them this easily, of course.
Here's what ZOS can do to make them easier to stomach:
1 - No exclusives, or at most, only themed collectibles being exclusive.
2 - Increased return of gems per repeated collectibles - at the bare minimum half of what you need to buy something of the same tier, although what would be fair and reasonable would be the full gem price.
3 - Allow people to trade unwanted collectibles for gems, even if they are not repeated (maybe these could get half of the gema refunded and the repeated ones could give a full refund).
This would mean people would need to buy less crates, they wouldn't be that profitable and would mainly be a way of getting retired items. That would mean a smaller chance of the crates becoming the main source of income and therefore the main priority. Even if it isn't a much lower chance, at least it would make the company look a little better. I really wished ZOS wouldn't go dragging their reputation in the mud now.
I will agree to disagree with you that not caring is supporting, it is just another version of the absolutes that people tend to talk in these days, rather than middle ground.
However, I agree with you on the Crown Gems return. That could certainly stand to be be higher. I disagree that there should not be exclusives, that is what entices people in the first place. HOWEVER, they should limit the exclusives severely.
But if they weren't profitable, they would not go into the game.
They don't need to not be profitable, they need to be less profitable than the other ways the game makes money with (regular Crown Store sales, DLC sales, ESO+ and box sales). Or at least not be TOO much more profitable than those as to not become the priority. They can't also flop too hard, or we will start seeing things in the crates that impact gameplay more directly as to make them more attractive.
And keep in mind that "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". You can disagree all you want, but what do you think benefits the implementation of these horrible things on the state they are now? Expressing your discontent or accepting it silently while trying to invalidate people's concerns regarding the future ahead with these? Honestly.
I for one prefer the "at least I tried" feeling than the "I didn't speak up when I had the chance" feeling.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
Not caring IS supporting. I'm hoping people will realize that after everything that happened this year.
what?
if you are not for it your against it/ if your not against it you are for it?
rubbish.... that is just the kind of absolutist bs that i despise.
it is possible to be indifferent to things you know.
I had hoped that this year would at least have served as a lesson on what happens when you stay silent.
I guess not.
ZOS doesn't need you to say "yes" to the crates, they only need you to stay silent for that to count as approval. And you guys who don't care also help a lot by trying to invalidate people's concerns about them, so you are actually being quite supportive of the crates with your behavior.
the events of this year demonstrate one thing at least - opinion polls are not reliable.
but to blithely put it all down to indifference shows a lamentable lack of understanding of the complexities of the situation.2 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You make a lot of reasonable points, and context is absolutely important here - you're 100% correct that there are far bigger fish to fry thanks to certain current events.
That said, corporate fairness is quite often in the news and for good reason. It might not require a march on parliament, but it has never been out of the ordinary to call out a company for unfair business practices, and these boxes are explicity designed to wring as much money as possible out of customers for as little developer input as possible. The research that has been done on these has demonstrated that people will end up forking out 5, maybe even 10x as many crowns for a product as they should be. So let's keep that in mind too please.
Oh I agree again.
But again, in business, why get people to spend once when they can spend again and again? A prime business tactic.
Those impulse buyers that I touched on are who they are aiming at. Some see through it, some have no interest, and others will buy. Different people do different things.
That reduction of their business tactic doesn't reflect the actual scenario.
The trick is finding the balance between what the costumer is willing to pay and what would scare them away. And when a costumer feels scammed, they leave. Add to that the service declining in quality and regularity because of the shift in development focus and you are brewing failure.
A company has to make money. ZOS already has means to make money, honest means. Why are they doing this, then, if it is so bad for the game in medium and long term? Well, chances are that ESO isn't a long term project anymore. And for someone like me, who loves this franchise and this game and wanted it to last for several years, that kinda sucks.
See, I am not sure I agree here.
Guild Wars 2 has many, many transactions in the gem store, including something called "Black Lion Chests"
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest
That game seems to go on and on.
Overwatch has loot crates with skins and cosmetics. They seem okay.
Those are merely a couple of examples of games with transactions such as these that seem perfectly healthy and ongoing.
Everything in Black Lion Crates is tradable before being used or can be purchased directly through their cash shop, though. And both the boxes and the keys can be obtained in game (they can actually be farmed). As I said before, Crown Crates are the absolutely most consumer-unfriendly way of implementing RNG boxes I ever saw in a MMO.
Overwatch is not of the same genre, the weight of cosmetics isn't comparable, and you can obtain RNG crates in the game.Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.8 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭You make a lot of reasonable points, and context is absolutely important here - you're 100% correct that there are far bigger fish to fry thanks to certain current events.
That said, corporate fairness is quite often in the news and for good reason. It might not require a march on parliament, but it has never been out of the ordinary to call out a company for unfair business practices, and these boxes are explicity designed to wring as much money as possible out of customers for as little developer input as possible. The research that has been done on these has demonstrated that people will end up forking out 5, maybe even 10x as many crowns for a product as they should be. So let's keep that in mind too please.
Oh I agree again.
But again, in business, why get people to spend once when they can spend again and again? A prime business tactic.
Those impulse buyers that I touched on are who they are aiming at. Some see through it, some have no interest, and others will buy. Different people do different things.
That reduction of their business tactic doesn't reflect the actual scenario.
The trick is finding the balance between what the costumer is willing to pay and what would scare them away. And when a costumer feels scammed, they leave. Add to that the service declining in quality and regularity because of the shift in development focus and you are brewing failure.
A company has to make money. ZOS already has means to make money, honest means. Why are they doing this, then, if it is so bad for the game in medium and long term? Well, chances are that ESO isn't a long term project anymore. And for someone like me, who loves this franchise and this game and wanted it to last for several years, that kinda sucks.
See, I am not sure I agree here.
Guild Wars 2 has many, many transactions in the gem store, including something called "Black Lion Chests"
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest
That game seems to go on and on.
Overwatch has loot crates with skins and cosmetics. They seem okay.
Those are merely a couple of examples of games with transactions such as these that seem perfectly healthy and ongoing.
I haven't really played guild wars 2. I have played overwatch. In overwatch you can unlock everything by playing. Specific skins can be purchased with in game credits. ZOS has created a rng box that is probably the worst I have ever seen in a game.3 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You make a lot of reasonable points, and context is absolutely important here - you're 100% correct that there are far bigger fish to fry thanks to certain current events.
That said, corporate fairness is quite often in the news and for good reason. It might not require a march on parliament, but it has never been out of the ordinary to call out a company for unfair business practices, and these boxes are explicity designed to wring as much money as possible out of customers for as little developer input as possible. The research that has been done on these has demonstrated that people will end up forking out 5, maybe even 10x as many crowns for a product as they should be. So let's keep that in mind too please.
Oh I agree again.
But again, in business, why get people to spend once when they can spend again and again? A prime business tactic.
Those impulse buyers that I touched on are who they are aiming at. Some see through it, some have no interest, and others will buy. Different people do different things.
That reduction of their business tactic doesn't reflect the actual scenario.
The trick is finding the balance between what the costumer is willing to pay and what would scare them away. And when a costumer feels scammed, they leave. Add to that the service declining in quality and regularity because of the shift in development focus and you are brewing failure.
A company has to make money. ZOS already has means to make money, honest means. Why are they doing this, then, if it is so bad for the game in medium and long term? Well, chances are that ESO isn't a long term project anymore. And for someone like me, who loves this franchise and this game and wanted it to last for several years, that kinda sucks.
See, I am not sure I agree here.
Guild Wars 2 has many, many transactions in the gem store, including something called "Black Lion Chests"
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest
That game seems to go on and on.
Overwatch has loot crates with skins and cosmetics. They seem okay.
Those are merely a couple of examples of games with transactions such as these that seem perfectly healthy and ongoing.
Everything in Black Lion Crates is tradable before being used or can be purchased directly through their cash shop, though. And both the boxes and the keys can be obtained in game (they can actually be farmed). As I said before, Crown Crates are the absolutely most consumer-unfriendly way of implementing RNG boxes I ever saw in a MMO.
Overwatch is not of the same genre, the weight of cosmetics isn't comparable, and you can obtain RNG crates in the game.
They *do* have and have had exclusive things in the crates though. Says so right there on that page, and tested as I played GW2 quite a bit.
And whilst Overwatch is a different game, the basic feel behind it is exactly the same
However, I would like to ask: Why all the outrage? Now, I do ask from the view point of someone who has seen many outrages on these forums, as I said, a lot of people tend to be quite reactionary. But, why the outrage and absolutes?
I think I know why. I think it must have to do with the Elder Scrolls brand as a whole. That has caused a lot of argument about this game. Allow me to see it from your point, as I have made my point.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!2 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
Not caring IS supporting. I'm hoping people will realize that after everything that happened this year.
Yes, they are coming. But they could come in a less harmful way. Not if people accept them this easily, of course.
Here's what ZOS can do to make them easier to stomach:
1 - No exclusives, or at most, only themed collectibles being exclusive.
2 - Increased return of gems per repeated collectibles - at the bare minimum half of what you need to buy something of the same tier, although what would be fair and reasonable would be the full gem price.
3 - Allow people to trade unwanted collectibles for gems, even if they are not repeated (maybe these could get half of the gema refunded and the repeated ones could give a full refund).
This would mean people would need to buy less crates, they wouldn't be that profitable and would mainly be a way of getting retired items. That would mean a smaller chance of the crates becoming the main source of income and therefore the main priority. Even if it isn't a much lower chance, at least it would make the company look a little better. I really wished ZOS wouldn't go dragging their reputation in the mud now.
I will agree to disagree with you that not caring is supporting, it is just another version of the absolutes that people tend to talk in these days, rather than middle ground.
However, I agree with you on the Crown Gems return. That could certainly stand to be be higher. I disagree that there should not be exclusives, that is what entices people in the first place. HOWEVER, they should limit the exclusives severely.
But if they weren't profitable, they would not go into the game.
They don't need to not be profitable, they need to be less profitable than the other ways the game makes money with (regular Crown Store sales, DLC sales, ESO+ and box sales). Or at least not be TOO much more profitable than those as to not become the priority. They can't also flop too hard, or we will start seeing things in the crates that impact gameplay more directly as to make them more attractive.
And keep in mind that "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". You can disagree all you want, but what do you think benefits the implementation of these horrible things on the state they are now? Expressing your discontent or accepting it silently while trying to invalidate people's concerns regarding the future ahead with these? Honestly.
I for one prefer the "at least I tried" feeling than the "I didn't speak up when I had the chance" feeling.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
Not caring IS supporting. I'm hoping people will realize that after everything that happened this year.
what?
if you are not for it your against it/ if your not against it you are for it?
rubbish.... that is just the kind of absolutist bs that i despise.
it is possible to be indifferent to things you know.
I had hoped that this year would at least have served as a lesson on what happens when you stay silent.
I guess not.
ZOS doesn't need you to say "yes" to the crates, they only need you to stay silent for that to count as approval. And you guys who don't care also help a lot by trying to invalidate people's concerns about them, so you are actually being quite supportive of the crates with your behavior.
the events of this year demonstrate one thing at least - opinion polls are not reliable.
but to blithely put it all down to indifference shows a lamentable lack of understanding of the complexities of the situation.
I'm sorry, but if you ignore the huge chunk of people who stayed silent on both cases that you might be talking about, that is what really shows lack of understanding of the situation. And I imagine the big number of people who regret staying silent now also think it wasn't their fault.
But, no talking of politics here.Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.2 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not referring to the store being down.
I'm referring to what is about to be put in the Crown Store. As most of us are waiting in abject terror that the game we love is about to be irreversibly damaged.
All of this. They haven't budged on putting the gambling boxes in and still will tell us nothing about the actual RNG of same. Outcry against this hated tactic has been huge...and yet ZOS remains silent. You do the math.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You make a lot of reasonable points, and context is absolutely important here - you're 100% correct that there are far bigger fish to fry thanks to certain current events.
That said, corporate fairness is quite often in the news and for good reason. It might not require a march on parliament, but it has never been out of the ordinary to call out a company for unfair business practices, and these boxes are explicity designed to wring as much money as possible out of customers for as little developer input as possible. The research that has been done on these has demonstrated that people will end up forking out 5, maybe even 10x as many crowns for a product as they should be. So let's keep that in mind too please.
Oh I agree again.
But again, in business, why get people to spend once when they can spend again and again? A prime business tactic.
Those impulse buyers that I touched on are who they are aiming at. Some see through it, some have no interest, and others will buy. Different people do different things.
That reduction of their business tactic doesn't reflect the actual scenario.
The trick is finding the balance between what the costumer is willing to pay and what would scare them away. And when a costumer feels scammed, they leave. Add to that the service declining in quality and regularity because of the shift in development focus and you are brewing failure.
A company has to make money. ZOS already has means to make money, honest means. Why are they doing this, then, if it is so bad for the game in medium and long term? Well, chances are that ESO isn't a long term project anymore. And for someone like me, who loves this franchise and this game and wanted it to last for several years, that kinda sucks.
See, I am not sure I agree here.
Guild Wars 2 has many, many transactions in the gem store, including something called "Black Lion Chests"
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest
That game seems to go on and on.
Overwatch has loot crates with skins and cosmetics. They seem okay.
Those are merely a couple of examples of games with transactions such as these that seem perfectly healthy and ongoing.
Everything in Black Lion Crates is tradable before being used or can be purchased directly through their cash shop, though. And both the boxes and the keys can be obtained in game (they can actually be farmed). As I said before, Crown Crates are the absolutely most consumer-unfriendly way of implementing RNG boxes I ever saw in a MMO.
Overwatch is not of the same genre, the weight of cosmetics isn't comparable, and you can obtain RNG crates in the game.
They *do* have and have had exclusive things in the crates though. Says so right there on that page, and tested as I played GW2 quite a bit.
And whilst Overwatch is a different game, the basic feel behind it is exactly the same
However, I would like to ask: Why all the outrage? Now, I do ask from the view point of someone who has seen many outrages on these forums, as I said, a lot of people tend to be quite reactionary. But, why the outrage and absolutes?
I think I know why. I think it must have to do with the Elder Scrolls brand as a whole. That has caused a lot of argument about this game. Allow me to see it from your point, as I have made my point.
I came from GW2. Everything that dropped "exclusively" from the crates could be put in the Trading Post and sold for gold to other people. And no, the basic feel and the implementation in Overwatch is completely different. The genre is different, the way to obtain the cosmetics is different, it isn't by any stretch comparable.
The outrage is because people have similar experiences that I had. I saw this happening over and over again in games that I loved much less than this one. I do not want this game to fail, I want it to be around for years to come. I was younger and naïve before, so I always thought that it could be different on this or that game, but it was not. It never is, because we stay silent. I've been in your place before.
It might be because it is TES. It has a more mature and experienced fan base in general, a fan base that knows from previous experience what these things do to games (particularly in games where a certain person workes on).
I understand that you might dislike the idea that, by being indifferent, you are supporting this practice. It is the truth, however, for the reasons exposed already.Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.6 -
schroed360✭✭✭Stop whining about something that doesn't affect gameplay and isn't mandatory to use.
Funny to see how you miss how much you are right on this one ...yeah they won t affect the gameplay anymore...the gameplay will soon not be affected anymore by anything.
PS DOOM annoucment ,march 1st release of TAMRIEL ONE : fight for the crown ^^0 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You make a lot of reasonable points, and context is absolutely important here - you're 100% correct that there are far bigger fish to fry thanks to certain current events.
That said, corporate fairness is quite often in the news and for good reason. It might not require a march on parliament, but it has never been out of the ordinary to call out a company for unfair business practices, and these boxes are explicity designed to wring as much money as possible out of customers for as little developer input as possible. The research that has been done on these has demonstrated that people will end up forking out 5, maybe even 10x as many crowns for a product as they should be. So let's keep that in mind too please.
Oh I agree again.
But again, in business, why get people to spend once when they can spend again and again? A prime business tactic.
Those impulse buyers that I touched on are who they are aiming at. Some see through it, some have no interest, and others will buy. Different people do different things.
That reduction of their business tactic doesn't reflect the actual scenario.
The trick is finding the balance between what the costumer is willing to pay and what would scare them away. And when a costumer feels scammed, they leave. Add to that the service declining in quality and regularity because of the shift in development focus and you are brewing failure.
A company has to make money. ZOS already has means to make money, honest means. Why are they doing this, then, if it is so bad for the game in medium and long term? Well, chances are that ESO isn't a long term project anymore. And for someone like me, who loves this franchise and this game and wanted it to last for several years, that kinda sucks.
See, I am not sure I agree here.
Guild Wars 2 has many, many transactions in the gem store, including something called "Black Lion Chests"
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest
That game seems to go on and on.
Overwatch has loot crates with skins and cosmetics. They seem okay.
Those are merely a couple of examples of games with transactions such as these that seem perfectly healthy and ongoing.
Everything in Black Lion Crates is tradable before being used or can be purchased directly through their cash shop, though. And both the boxes and the keys can be obtained in game (they can actually be farmed). As I said before, Crown Crates are the absolutely most consumer-unfriendly way of implementing RNG boxes I ever saw in a MMO.
Overwatch is not of the same genre, the weight of cosmetics isn't comparable, and you can obtain RNG crates in the game.
They *do* have and have had exclusive things in the crates though. Says so right there on that page, and tested as I played GW2 quite a bit.
And whilst Overwatch is a different game, the basic feel behind it is exactly the same
However, I would like to ask: Why all the outrage? Now, I do ask from the view point of someone who has seen many outrages on these forums, as I said, a lot of people tend to be quite reactionary. But, why the outrage and absolutes?
I think I know why. I think it must have to do with the Elder Scrolls brand as a whole. That has caused a lot of argument about this game. Allow me to see it from your point, as I have made my point.
I came from GW2. Everything that dropped "exclusively" from the crates could be put in the Trading Post and sold for gold to other people. And no, the basic feel and the implementation in Overwatch is completely different. The genre is different, the way to obtain the cosmetics is different, it isn't by any stretch comparable.
The outrage is because people have similar experiences that I had. I saw this happening over and over again in games that I loved much less than this one. I do not want this game to fail, I want it to be around for years to come. I was younger and naïve before, so I always thought that it could be different on this or that game, but it was not. It never is, because we stay silent. I've been in your place before.
It might be because it is TES. It has a more mature and experienced fan base in general, a fan base that knows from previous experience what these things do to games (particularly in games where a certain person workes on).
I understand that you might dislike the idea that, by being indifferent, you are supporting this practice. It is the truth, however, for the reasons exposed already.
See, I like that you have passion for the Elder Scrolls series. That is something we share.
What I can not get behind is staying silent makes one support the practice. That again, to me, is reactionary absolute speak for you are either for us or against us. No middle ground whatsoever. Life has a lot of interesting middle ground.
I do agree with you that TES does tend to have a more mature fanbase. That is blatantly apparent from a lot of the community.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Stop whining about something that doesn't affect gameplay and isn't mandatory to use.
Doesn't effect gameplay *yet*.
They are still using assets developed before they hired that person and changed the focus to monetization and rngesus crates. When the "old" content is done, the new content isn't going to be focused on the game, it will be focused on the boxes. They are skirting the edge of buying advantages. That won't go away or get better, it will simply get worse, especially if the crates don't sell.3 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
nvmSavodral_Maryralu wrote: »Why is anyone bothered about cosmetic items in lucky boxes. If you don't want them don't buy them. The game is in a good place now. This will barley change anything.
Edited by JKorr on November 16, 2016 12:27PM0 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭However, I would like to ask: Why all the outrage? Now, I do ask from the view point of someone who has seen many outrages on these forums, as I said, a lot of people tend to be quite reactionary. But, why the outrage and absolutes?
I think I know why. I think it must have to do with the Elder Scrolls brand as a whole. That has caused a lot of argument about this game. Allow me to see it from your point, as I have made my point.
For me it's a simple matter of being prevented from the choice of whether I want to buy a specific item or not. I'd never buy a female costume or any cosmetics related to Argonians, as I don't play either. Now, if I want the blackmane lion, I have to gamble for it, thereby potentially getting cosmetics I have no use for and would never spend my crowns on. Those unwanted items clutter up my collection with no option to delete them.
It would be acceptable if I could turn in every unwanted item for gems, not only duplicates or if we could trade any of the items with other players.
Another possible solution would be to only include the themed items and past crown store offerings as exclusive items.
4 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You make a lot of reasonable points, and context is absolutely important here - you're 100% correct that there are far bigger fish to fry thanks to certain current events.
That said, corporate fairness is quite often in the news and for good reason. It might not require a march on parliament, but it has never been out of the ordinary to call out a company for unfair business practices, and these boxes are explicity designed to wring as much money as possible out of customers for as little developer input as possible. The research that has been done on these has demonstrated that people will end up forking out 5, maybe even 10x as many crowns for a product as they should be. So let's keep that in mind too please.
Oh I agree again.
But again, in business, why get people to spend once when they can spend again and again? A prime business tactic.
Those impulse buyers that I touched on are who they are aiming at. Some see through it, some have no interest, and others will buy. Different people do different things.
That reduction of their business tactic doesn't reflect the actual scenario.
The trick is finding the balance between what the costumer is willing to pay and what would scare them away. And when a costumer feels scammed, they leave. Add to that the service declining in quality and regularity because of the shift in development focus and you are brewing failure.
A company has to make money. ZOS already has means to make money, honest means. Why are they doing this, then, if it is so bad for the game in medium and long term? Well, chances are that ESO isn't a long term project anymore. And for someone like me, who loves this franchise and this game and wanted it to last for several years, that kinda sucks.
See, I am not sure I agree here.
Guild Wars 2 has many, many transactions in the gem store, including something called "Black Lion Chests"
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest
That game seems to go on and on.
Overwatch has loot crates with skins and cosmetics. They seem okay.
Those are merely a couple of examples of games with transactions such as these that seem perfectly healthy and ongoing.
Everything in Black Lion Crates is tradable before being used or can be purchased directly through their cash shop, though. And both the boxes and the keys can be obtained in game (they can actually be farmed). As I said before, Crown Crates are the absolutely most consumer-unfriendly way of implementing RNG boxes I ever saw in a MMO.
Overwatch is not of the same genre, the weight of cosmetics isn't comparable, and you can obtain RNG crates in the game.
They *do* have and have had exclusive things in the crates though. Says so right there on that page, and tested as I played GW2 quite a bit.
And whilst Overwatch is a different game, the basic feel behind it is exactly the same
However, I would like to ask: Why all the outrage? Now, I do ask from the view point of someone who has seen many outrages on these forums, as I said, a lot of people tend to be quite reactionary. But, why the outrage and absolutes?
I think I know why. I think it must have to do with the Elder Scrolls brand as a whole. That has caused a lot of argument about this game. Allow me to see it from your point, as I have made my point.
I came from GW2. Everything that dropped "exclusively" from the crates could be put in the Trading Post and sold for gold to other people. And no, the basic feel and the implementation in Overwatch is completely different. The genre is different, the way to obtain the cosmetics is different, it isn't by any stretch comparable.
The outrage is because people have similar experiences that I had. I saw this happening over and over again in games that I loved much less than this one. I do not want this game to fail, I want it to be around for years to come. I was younger and naïve before, so I always thought that it could be different on this or that game, but it was not. It never is, because we stay silent. I've been in your place before.
It might be because it is TES. It has a more mature and experienced fan base in general, a fan base that knows from previous experience what these things do to games (particularly in games where a certain person workes on).
I understand that you might dislike the idea that, by being indifferent, you are supporting this practice. It is the truth, however, for the reasons exposed already.
See, I like that you have passion for the Elder Scrolls series. That is something we share.
What I can not get behind is staying silent makes one support the practice. That again, to me, is reactionary absolute speak for you are either for us or against us. No middle ground whatsoever. Life has a lot of interesting middle ground.
I do agree with you that TES does tend to have a more mature fanbase. That is blatantly apparent from a lot of the community.
You are mistaken, it isn't a "either for us or against us" mentality. When you consider silence as an option, you need to consider the consequences of that silence. That's what I think is important for people to understand.
Sometimes, staying out of it is literally staying out of it. A fight between friends where you don't want to side with anyone, for example.
But if there is an option that will win simply if the other option doesn't get enough support, then by not supporting the other option you are helping the first option. Indirectly, sure, but you still are.
Again, ZOS doesn't need you to say you are totally on board with the crates. Not being against them is enough.Edited by Abeille on November 16, 2016 1:01PMJust so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.3 -
Cazzy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭My boyfriend is a pro Overwatch player and I can tell you their crate system is far different. You can purchase the skins outright, win crates or buy them. Buying them isn't necessary to get any of the goods. He got them all without purchasing anything.2 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ZOS makes a product that, despite it's flaws, I have enjoyed for over 2 years and continue to enjoy for hours a week.
When that changes, I will stop supporting them financially.
/shrugThrice Empress, Forever Scrub2 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think Crown Crates may be coming in the next day or two.
Free to play weekend, 500 free crowns for newbies?
Seems a pretty optimum time to me.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!1 -
summitxho✭✭✭
As for what it takes from me, well as stated above ZOS is a business, if they are smart and crown crates increased profit, they would take a percentage for themselves and invest more into the game, I want to play this game for a bit yet, I am not done, so the more money coming into this game in that time span the better. I come to ZOS unbiased, I know nothing about them, but my experience with the game so far shows they are making an effort to make most of its customer base happy, so I have to believe they know what they are doing. If we take that revenue away, how is that helping the game at all? Do you believe that crown store sales would overtake crown crates and recoup that revenue? If Zos believes that with its numbers statistics, and payroll they have for figuring this kind of stuff out, why would they do it? Just to screw with people? I think its more likely ZOS sees crown crates as more profitable, and I dont have an issue with a company wanting to make a profit as long as they keep their game enjoyable for me.
Ah yes, there are other bad things in the world and this bad thing is not as bad so there is no reason to speak out against it. All humans should be robots and always make the correct decision and compassion for those who cannot be perfect all the time is a waste. Neat.rotaugen454 wrote: »I guess the complaint is that people with a gambling addiction will spend a lot on this. The thing is, if they really have an addiction, they will just spend that money elsewhere anyway.
By this logic I should start selling illegal drugs to addicts. They already have an addiction, so they'll just buy stuff from somewhere else if not from me. Time to make some bank now that I am free from any moral consequence!
in a few parts of the world, its not only sold, but given to addicts by government for exactly that reason, they are going to do it anyways, might as well get them to do it as safely as possible.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/crosstown-clinic-heroin-addiction-1.3779768
I was not referring to the moral / ethical ramifications of treating drug addicts by providing them with low-cost/free, clean drugs. There are many ways to treat addiction and we as a society are still grappling with the most effective and compassionate ways of doing so.
My comment was an attempt to point out that ZOS enriching themselves at the expense of those of us with debilitating personality disorders is no less repulsive than street pushers who do the same.The harsh reality is that if someone with a gambling problem is playing this game and not seeking change, then yes that same money would have been gambled away to something else already and I dont have any sympathy. If someone is really wanting to change and working towards it then they have my sympathy, but we cannot design a game for the small percentage this would effect IMO. This is an adults game, in the adult world gambling is widely accepted.
A few points:- Your lack of sympathy for people who struggle with problems you are thankfully without does not make the exploitation of those people any less disgusting. I'm happy for you that gambling addiction or other compulsive behaviors are not something that people close to you have struggled with, that must be nice.
- This is not a game design issue, crown crates are almost entirely divorced from the actual game. This is a ploy by ZOS to exploit information asymmetry between them and their customers for the purpose of enticing people to spend more than they otherwise would.
- Gambling is wildly accepted, this is true. I even enjoy gambling personally. However there is a big difference between what we know as gambling and what we've seen of the crown crates. When I step up to a blackjack table I know the odds. The rules of the game are clearly stated up front, there is no information asymmetry. This is not the situation with what we've seen of the crown crates, they are intentionally opaque and deceptive. This makes them less of a "gambling" service and more of a "scam."
Its life, time to get over it, we see food being pushed on obese people, we see gambling being pushed on gambling addicts, we see cigarettes pushed on smokers, in all walks of life we see it, seeing it in a game is the least of society problems. The moment we stop giving the rights to choose to the majority because of the minority is the moment we lose freedom of choice. Time to grow up, put our big boy pants on and take responsibility for our own actions while us as a society supports it the best we can, taking things away is not the answer. The sooner we all learn to do this, the better off everyone will be.
Here we have the "I'll be fine what's wrong with everyone else?" argument, always a classic.Blah blah blah crown crates, yeah I get your point, just I do not agree with it. I would not spend a cent on in game items, that will not change with crown crates, only thing I will ever spend money on in game is that which makes my game time more enjoyable, that choice on what that is, is up to the user and should remain that way.
Slot machine odds can vary by jurisdiction and machine but must meet baseline standards set by state gaming boards (at least in the US).What are the odds of a slot machine? From my understanding it can vary depends on the machine settings, also from my understanding its the most popular form of gambling in Vegas.
If you don't want to get sucked into a crown crate debate then why are you posting comments in a crown crate debate? Almost seems like you might not have the iron-clad, robotic impulse control that you assume all other humans should have. Very interesting!Regardless, I cannot get sucked into another crown crates debate, its just ridiculous, time to call the whambulance.
Making profit in the expanse of your company's reputation by adding a "feature" that is widely hated by experienced MMO players (and in the most awful way I ever saw implemented in a MMO, let me tell you; of all the RNG Boxes I've dealt with so far, ESO's were the absolutely worst), do not signals a long-term plan for the game. Quite the contrary: The system was so badly implementation on the PTS and the changes they said they were willing to do were so insignificant that it reeks of a last ditch effort to get as much money as possible before moving on to the next project.
Why is this "feature" widely hated by experienced MMO players, you might ask? That's because we saw them destroying the MMOs we played over and over and over again. MMO after MMO, these are introduced right before the game goes Free-To-Play. The release of content is slowed down to a crawl (arguably already happening), the money goes to the suits and to the development of more stuff to be put in the boxes, NOT to the development of content.
If you are not done with this game, you really should reconsider your support for these crates. Unless you think ZOS will make history as the first MMO company to implement these things and actually use the profit to make the game better. But with the person in charge for the implementation of them, a person who has a long trail of ruined MMOs behind her, it is very hard to believe this could happen.
I see that many people go off the assumption that a feature generating profit is automatically good for the game (a game that is far from being free, if I might add). That isn't how it works. The Free-To-Play + RNG Boxes is a business method that does NOT exist to keep games alive. It is a last ditch effort to make money before they die. History repeats itself.
Really, pick two:
1 - Cares about the future of the game.
2 - Knows the effect RNG Boxes have in games.
3 - Supports the Crown Crates.
Picking all three is not possible.
You want me to believe the crown crates drive people from the game, I do not disagree with that, what I do disagree with is that it destroys the game. I am sure it will lose some subscribers, and ZOS probably also realizes this, but for them to make that decision, the gains must outweigh the loss, otherwise a business would not make that decision. With all their payroll, all there statistics, all the facts they have that we do not, I cannot see why they would make that decision if it was so clear cut failure.
Its not that I do not take into account what you are saying, you have experience I do not, and I factor that into my opinion, just I do not base my opinion solely on your experience. I factor other things into forming my opinion. On one hand I have some experienced MMO players telling me that it destroyed past MMO's, that is a valid point. What is also valid points for me however is the following:
-was the game already starting to struggle with revenue and they brought in crown crates to assist with that, or were crown crates brought in which destroyed the game? Its the chicken and the egg argument with to my knowledge no real hard facts to back up either way, so I turn to logic. If you have a good game already and bring in crown crates despite all these failures of the past which has destroyed the game, where is the gain? If the gain is in revenue well then its good for the game and future games, the ones that make a lot of money keep going. If you have a failing game and bring in crown crates to boost revenue to extend the life, I can see the gain.
-opinions are usually biased in how they effect the end user. Lets say the game was starting to lose players, going downhill, but the game is unchanged, your still happy as you do not see the trickling of players leaving. They bring in crates to help recover some of that revenue, but all of a sudden that effects your gaming experience because it makes items unavailable to you, which I can understand why some people would be unhappy with. The game still dies over time, all MMO's do eventually, but your still angry about the crown crates and make it your scapegoat, its human nature to blame the act that effected you most, but the truth is I believe a lot bigger than that. Am I saying you are doing this? No, but I do not know you, so it could be a possibility I need to factor in.
-This person that is spoken of to bring in the crates, she has been hired by many other companies to do the same thing. If they all meant failure, then why does she keep being hired?
-All MMO's have a lifespan, some more than others, what is the proposed lifespan of ESO? I dont think any of us can answer that at this point, so again I have to go by logic. Another Elder scrolls title will be released in another couple years, many people play this game because its elder scrolls, it seems to have a large casual following because of that reason, when the new title of elder scrolls is released, where do you think many of those players will go? I know I will be playing the new title and ESO will sit in the dust most likely, you may not like it, but that is what happens to games. I seem to recall a large drop off in activity when fallout 4 launched for example. This is not even taking into account the players who leave to other MMO's on the horizon, as technology progresses people move on to the latest and greatest. Its not that ZOS is doing wrong, its just the hard truth of games. They die.
- I also think its unfair to condemn a company based on others failures, I look at ESO and have been pretty happy with the direction they have gone, the DLC, the 1T. I see this as an investment into their game to keep it going, why spend all that money on 1T to simply destroy the game with crown crates?
When I take all of this into account, I tend to believe ZOS knows more than we do, and that there are many factors in why a game will die, but crown crates are not the end all be all for destroying a game.
Generating profit is good for the game, not only good for the game but for the franchise, we cannot be so short sighted. If the elder scrolls was not such a big moneymaker, we would not have it, it pulls in a lot of money, so they will keep producing more of them into the future, this is good, the more money a game makes, the more future investment they will put into it. If its a last ditch effort before the game dies, this is also good! The game was going to die anyways with or without crown crates, which is my point, I do not think crown crates destroy the game, I think the game was already going down that path to begin with and they brought crown crates in to generate some extra profit.1 -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭But....but...folks....they turned Pacrooti into Paul Riser's character from Aliens.0 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭bellanca6561n wrote: »But....but...folks....they turned Pacrooti into Paul Riser's character from Aliens.
#SavePacrooti@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion1 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Knootewoot wrote: »CRAAAATES
also, I don't mind the crates. I won't buy them anyway. But some will = income for Zos = more $$ to make content for ESO
When it comes to the point that the only way ZOS can create income for new content is by selling crown crates, then it's game over baby. They might as well turn out the lights and cut their losses while they are ahead.
Edited by Ashtaris on November 16, 2016 7:43PM5 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think Crown Crates may be coming in the next day or two.
Free to play weekend, 500 free crowns for newbies?
Seems a pretty optimum time to me.
I felt a cold chill in the air tonight, then on my way home, birds were falling out of the sky. Also another sign crates may be on the way.2 -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think Crown Crates may be coming in the next day or two.
Free to play weekend, 500 free crowns for newbies?
Seems a pretty optimum time to me.
I felt a cold chill in the air tonight, then on my way home, birds were falling out of the sky. Also another sign crates may be on the way.
And what's up with these swarms of bats at noon?1 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Not so much crayons, but I'd appreciate a puppy certainly.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!0 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yes for puppies. And kitties, too.
I wonder if @SantieClaws is okay with ear scratches or if I have to provide some liquor first.Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.0