Crown Store nerdrage megathread
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summitxho✭✭✭
Ah yes, there are other bad things in the world and this bad thing is not as bad so there is no reason to speak out against it. All humans should be robots and always make the correct decision and compassion for those who cannot be perfect all the time is a waste. Neat.rotaugen454 wrote: »I guess the complaint is that people with a gambling addiction will spend a lot on this. The thing is, if they really have an addiction, they will just spend that money elsewhere anyway.
By this logic I should start selling illegal drugs to addicts. They already have an addiction, so they'll just buy stuff from somewhere else if not from me. Time to make some bank now that I am free from any moral consequence!
in a few parts of the world, its not only sold, but given to addicts by government for exactly that reason, they are going to do it anyways, might as well get them to do it as safely as possible.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/crosstown-clinic-heroin-addiction-1.3779768
I was not referring to the moral / ethical ramifications of treating drug addicts by providing them with low-cost/free, clean drugs. There are many ways to treat addiction and we as a society are still grappling with the most effective and compassionate ways of doing so.
My comment was an attempt to point out that ZOS enriching themselves at the expense of those of us with debilitating personality disorders is no less repulsive than street pushers who do the same.The harsh reality is that if someone with a gambling problem is playing this game and not seeking change, then yes that same money would have been gambled away to something else already and I dont have any sympathy. If someone is really wanting to change and working towards it then they have my sympathy, but we cannot design a game for the small percentage this would effect IMO. This is an adults game, in the adult world gambling is widely accepted.
A few points:- Your lack of sympathy for people who struggle with problems you are thankfully without does not make the exploitation of those people any less disgusting. I'm happy for you that gambling addiction or other compulsive behaviors are not something that people close to you have struggled with, that must be nice.
- This is not a game design issue, crown crates are almost entirely divorced from the actual game. This is a ploy by ZOS to exploit information asymmetry between them and their customers for the purpose of enticing people to spend more than they otherwise would.
- Gambling is wildly accepted, this is true. I even enjoy gambling personally. However there is a big difference between what we know as gambling and what we've seen of the crown crates. When I step up to a blackjack table I know the odds. The rules of the game are clearly stated up front, there is no information asymmetry. This is not the situation with what we've seen of the crown crates, they are intentionally opaque and deceptive. This makes them less of a "gambling" service and more of a "scam."
Its life, time to get over it, we see food being pushed on obese people, we see gambling being pushed on gambling addicts, we see cigarettes pushed on smokers, in all walks of life we see it, seeing it in a game is the least of society problems. The moment we stop giving the rights to choose to the majority because of the minority is the moment we lose freedom of choice. Time to grow up, put our big boy pants on and take responsibility for our own actions while us as a society supports it the best we can, taking things away is not the answer. The sooner we all learn to do this, the better off everyone will be.
Here we have the "I'll be fine what's wrong with everyone else?" argument, always a classic.Blah blah blah crown crates, yeah I get your point, just I do not agree with it. I would not spend a cent on in game items, that will not change with crown crates, only thing I will ever spend money on in game is that which makes my game time more enjoyable, that choice on what that is, is up to the user and should remain that way.
Slot machine odds can vary by jurisdiction and machine but must meet baseline standards set by state gaming boards (at least in the US).What are the odds of a slot machine? From my understanding it can vary depends on the machine settings, also from my understanding its the most popular form of gambling in Vegas.
If you don't want to get sucked into a crown crate debate then why are you posting comments in a crown crate debate? Almost seems like you might not have the iron-clad, robotic impulse control that you assume all other humans should have. Very interesting!Regardless, I cannot get sucked into another crown crates debate, its just ridiculous, time to call the whambulance.
Alright, you enticed me, I enjoy a good debate anyways.
First off, you are completely exaggerating my point, I stated people with problems should be offered help. What I am pointing out is there are many examples of what can be considered bad habits and a huge spectrum within those bad habits of how they would effect ones well being, tell me where does it stop? The prospect of making a bad choice is a part of life, that choice is our own responsibility, no one else should have to share that burden.
Some people have video game addictions, debilitating ones, so should we all not play this game so those people do not have the temptations? Should we stop making games altogether? If no, how is it any different from gambling?
As for your other comment about I am fine, yes I am, I also get why some are not fine despite your assumptions, we are not always going to agree as gamers because we have various reasons for playing. End of the day ZOS is a business, they do not cater to us, they cater to making money, as much money as possible. Any smart business knows that to accomplish that, a huge part is keeping its customer base happy, will everyone be happy? No, but I think the majority will keep on trucking without a care and things are being overblown.
I dont really care about crown crates to be honest, but I do care about freedom of choice.
@Cazzy - honestly I wish the best for you, and wished it was easier for you to get the help you need, that's not of question here.
As for what it takes from me, well as stated above ZOS is a business, if they are smart and crown crates increased profit, they would take a percentage for themselves and invest more into the game, I want to play this game for a bit yet, I am not done, so the more money coming into this game in that time span the better. I come to ZOS unbiased, I know nothing about them, but my experience with the game so far shows they are making an effort to make most of its customer base happy, so I have to believe they know what they are doing. If we take that revenue away, how is that helping the game at all? Do you believe that crown store sales would overtake crown crates and recoup that revenue? If Zos believes that with its numbers statistics, and payroll they have for figuring this kind of stuff out, why would they do it? Just to screw with people? I think its more likely ZOS sees crown crates as more profitable, and I dont have an issue with a company wanting to make a profit as long as they keep their game enjoyable for me.Edited by summitxho on November 16, 2016 3:17AM0 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I really liked Pacrooti; sad to see him reduced to throwing out the rngesus cards.11 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
As for what it takes from me, well as stated above ZOS is a business, if they are smart and crown crates increased profit, they would take a percentage for themselves and invest more into the game, I want to play this game for a bit yet, I am not done, so the more money coming into this game in that time span the better. I come to ZOS unbiased, I know nothing about them, but my experience with the game so far shows they are making an effort to make most of its customer base happy, so I have to believe they know what they are doing. If we take that revenue away, how is that helping the game at all? Do you believe that crown store sales would overtake crown crates and recoup that revenue? If Zos believes that with its numbers statistics, and payroll they have for figuring this kind of stuff out, why would they do it? Just to screw with people? I think its more likely ZOS sees crown crates as more profitable, and I dont have an issue with a company wanting to make a profit as long as they keep their game enjoyable for me.
Ah yes, there are other bad things in the world and this bad thing is not as bad so there is no reason to speak out against it. All humans should be robots and always make the correct decision and compassion for those who cannot be perfect all the time is a waste. Neat.rotaugen454 wrote: »I guess the complaint is that people with a gambling addiction will spend a lot on this. The thing is, if they really have an addiction, they will just spend that money elsewhere anyway.
By this logic I should start selling illegal drugs to addicts. They already have an addiction, so they'll just buy stuff from somewhere else if not from me. Time to make some bank now that I am free from any moral consequence!
in a few parts of the world, its not only sold, but given to addicts by government for exactly that reason, they are going to do it anyways, might as well get them to do it as safely as possible.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/crosstown-clinic-heroin-addiction-1.3779768
I was not referring to the moral / ethical ramifications of treating drug addicts by providing them with low-cost/free, clean drugs. There are many ways to treat addiction and we as a society are still grappling with the most effective and compassionate ways of doing so.
My comment was an attempt to point out that ZOS enriching themselves at the expense of those of us with debilitating personality disorders is no less repulsive than street pushers who do the same.The harsh reality is that if someone with a gambling problem is playing this game and not seeking change, then yes that same money would have been gambled away to something else already and I dont have any sympathy. If someone is really wanting to change and working towards it then they have my sympathy, but we cannot design a game for the small percentage this would effect IMO. This is an adults game, in the adult world gambling is widely accepted.
A few points:- Your lack of sympathy for people who struggle with problems you are thankfully without does not make the exploitation of those people any less disgusting. I'm happy for you that gambling addiction or other compulsive behaviors are not something that people close to you have struggled with, that must be nice.
- This is not a game design issue, crown crates are almost entirely divorced from the actual game. This is a ploy by ZOS to exploit information asymmetry between them and their customers for the purpose of enticing people to spend more than they otherwise would.
- Gambling is wildly accepted, this is true. I even enjoy gambling personally. However there is a big difference between what we know as gambling and what we've seen of the crown crates. When I step up to a blackjack table I know the odds. The rules of the game are clearly stated up front, there is no information asymmetry. This is not the situation with what we've seen of the crown crates, they are intentionally opaque and deceptive. This makes them less of a "gambling" service and more of a "scam."
Its life, time to get over it, we see food being pushed on obese people, we see gambling being pushed on gambling addicts, we see cigarettes pushed on smokers, in all walks of life we see it, seeing it in a game is the least of society problems. The moment we stop giving the rights to choose to the majority because of the minority is the moment we lose freedom of choice. Time to grow up, put our big boy pants on and take responsibility for our own actions while us as a society supports it the best we can, taking things away is not the answer. The sooner we all learn to do this, the better off everyone will be.
Here we have the "I'll be fine what's wrong with everyone else?" argument, always a classic.Blah blah blah crown crates, yeah I get your point, just I do not agree with it. I would not spend a cent on in game items, that will not change with crown crates, only thing I will ever spend money on in game is that which makes my game time more enjoyable, that choice on what that is, is up to the user and should remain that way.
Slot machine odds can vary by jurisdiction and machine but must meet baseline standards set by state gaming boards (at least in the US).What are the odds of a slot machine? From my understanding it can vary depends on the machine settings, also from my understanding its the most popular form of gambling in Vegas.
If you don't want to get sucked into a crown crate debate then why are you posting comments in a crown crate debate? Almost seems like you might not have the iron-clad, robotic impulse control that you assume all other humans should have. Very interesting!Regardless, I cannot get sucked into another crown crates debate, its just ridiculous, time to call the whambulance.
Making profit in the expanse of your company's reputation by adding a "feature" that is widely hated by experienced MMO players (and in the most awful way I ever saw implemented in a MMO, let me tell you; of all the RNG Boxes I've dealt with so far, ESO's were the absolutely worst), do not signals a long-term plan for the game. Quite the contrary: The system was so badly implementation on the PTS and the changes they said they were willing to do were so insignificant that it reeks of a last ditch effort to get as much money as possible before moving on to the next project.
Why is this "feature" widely hated by experienced MMO players, you might ask? That's because we saw them destroying the MMOs we played over and over and over again. MMO after MMO, these are introduced right before the game goes Free-To-Play. The release of content is slowed down to a crawl (arguably already happening), the money goes to the suits and to the development of more stuff to be put in the boxes, NOT to the development of content.
If you are not done with this game, you really should reconsider your support for these crates. Unless you think ZOS will make history as the first MMO company to implement these things and actually use the profit to make the game better. But with the person in charge for the implementation of them, a person who has a long trail of ruined MMOs behind her, it is very hard to believe this could happen.
I see that many people go off the assumption that a feature generating profit is automatically good for the game (a game that is far from being free, if I might add). That isn't how it works. The Free-To-Play + RNG Boxes is a business method that does NOT exist to keep games alive. It is a last ditch effort to make money before they die. History repeats itself.
Really, pick two:
1 - Cares about the future of the game.
2 - Knows the effect RNG Boxes have in games.
3 - Supports the Crown Crates.
Picking all three is not possible.Edited by Abeille on November 16, 2016 4:46AMJust so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.14 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
As for what it takes from me, well as stated above ZOS is a business, if they are smart and crown crates increased profit, they would take a percentage for themselves and invest more into the game, I want to play this game for a bit yet, I am not done, so the more money coming into this game in that time span the better. I come to ZOS unbiased, I know nothing about them, but my experience with the game so far shows they are making an effort to make most of its customer base happy, so I have to believe they know what they are doing. If we take that revenue away, how is that helping the game at all? Do you believe that crown store sales would overtake crown crates and recoup that revenue? If Zos believes that with its numbers statistics, and payroll they have for figuring this kind of stuff out, why would they do it? Just to screw with people? I think its more likely ZOS sees crown crates as more profitable, and I dont have an issue with a company wanting to make a profit as long as they keep their game enjoyable for me.
Ah yes, there are other bad things in the world and this bad thing is not as bad so there is no reason to speak out against it. All humans should be robots and always make the correct decision and compassion for those who cannot be perfect all the time is a waste. Neat.rotaugen454 wrote: »I guess the complaint is that people with a gambling addiction will spend a lot on this. The thing is, if they really have an addiction, they will just spend that money elsewhere anyway.
By this logic I should start selling illegal drugs to addicts. They already have an addiction, so they'll just buy stuff from somewhere else if not from me. Time to make some bank now that I am free from any moral consequence!
in a few parts of the world, its not only sold, but given to addicts by government for exactly that reason, they are going to do it anyways, might as well get them to do it as safely as possible.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/crosstown-clinic-heroin-addiction-1.3779768
I was not referring to the moral / ethical ramifications of treating drug addicts by providing them with low-cost/free, clean drugs. There are many ways to treat addiction and we as a society are still grappling with the most effective and compassionate ways of doing so.
My comment was an attempt to point out that ZOS enriching themselves at the expense of those of us with debilitating personality disorders is no less repulsive than street pushers who do the same.The harsh reality is that if someone with a gambling problem is playing this game and not seeking change, then yes that same money would have been gambled away to something else already and I dont have any sympathy. If someone is really wanting to change and working towards it then they have my sympathy, but we cannot design a game for the small percentage this would effect IMO. This is an adults game, in the adult world gambling is widely accepted.
A few points:- Your lack of sympathy for people who struggle with problems you are thankfully without does not make the exploitation of those people any less disgusting. I'm happy for you that gambling addiction or other compulsive behaviors are not something that people close to you have struggled with, that must be nice.
- This is not a game design issue, crown crates are almost entirely divorced from the actual game. This is a ploy by ZOS to exploit information asymmetry between them and their customers for the purpose of enticing people to spend more than they otherwise would.
- Gambling is wildly accepted, this is true. I even enjoy gambling personally. However there is a big difference between what we know as gambling and what we've seen of the crown crates. When I step up to a blackjack table I know the odds. The rules of the game are clearly stated up front, there is no information asymmetry. This is not the situation with what we've seen of the crown crates, they are intentionally opaque and deceptive. This makes them less of a "gambling" service and more of a "scam."
Its life, time to get over it, we see food being pushed on obese people, we see gambling being pushed on gambling addicts, we see cigarettes pushed on smokers, in all walks of life we see it, seeing it in a game is the least of society problems. The moment we stop giving the rights to choose to the majority because of the minority is the moment we lose freedom of choice. Time to grow up, put our big boy pants on and take responsibility for our own actions while us as a society supports it the best we can, taking things away is not the answer. The sooner we all learn to do this, the better off everyone will be.
Here we have the "I'll be fine what's wrong with everyone else?" argument, always a classic.Blah blah blah crown crates, yeah I get your point, just I do not agree with it. I would not spend a cent on in game items, that will not change with crown crates, only thing I will ever spend money on in game is that which makes my game time more enjoyable, that choice on what that is, is up to the user and should remain that way.
Slot machine odds can vary by jurisdiction and machine but must meet baseline standards set by state gaming boards (at least in the US).What are the odds of a slot machine? From my understanding it can vary depends on the machine settings, also from my understanding its the most popular form of gambling in Vegas.
If you don't want to get sucked into a crown crate debate then why are you posting comments in a crown crate debate? Almost seems like you might not have the iron-clad, robotic impulse control that you assume all other humans should have. Very interesting!Regardless, I cannot get sucked into another crown crates debate, its just ridiculous, time to call the whambulance.
Making profit in the expanse of your company's reputation by adding a "feature" that is widely hated by experienced MMO players (and in the most awful way I ever saw implemented in a MMO, let me tell you; of all the RNG Boxes I've dealt with so far, ESO's were the absolutely worst), do not signals a long-term plan for the game. Quite the contrary: The system was so badly implementation on the PTS and the changes they said they were willing to do were so insignificant that it reeks of a last ditch effort to get as much money as possible before moving on to the next project.
Why is this "feature" widely hated by experienced MMO players, you might ask? That's because we saw them destroying the MMOs we played over and over and over again. MMO after MMO, these are introduced right before the game goes Free-To-Play. The release of content is slowed down to a crawl (arguably already happening), the money goes to the suits and to the development of more stuff to be put in the boxes, NOT to the development of content.
If you are not done with this game, you really should reconsider your support for these crates. Unless you think ZOS will make history as the first MMO company to implement these things and actually use the profit to make the game better. But with the person in charge for the implementation of them, a person who has a long trail of ruined MMOs behind her, it is very hard to believe this could happen.
I see that many people go off the assumption that a feature generating profit is automatically good for the game (a game that is far from being free, if I might add). That isn't how it works. The Free-To-Play + RNG Boxes is a business method that does NOT exist to keep games alive. It is a last ditch effort to make money before they die. History repeats itself.
Really, pick two:
1 - Cares about the future of the game.
2 - Knows the effect RNG Boxes have in games.
3 - Supports the Crown Crates.
Picking all three is not possible.
This is very well said.
Anytime a company (or industry) starts to focus on milking the existing customer base for more and more money instead of growing the product to new customers and therefore growing the business it's all downhill from there.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC9 -
Aliniel✭✭✭✭✭Stop whining about something that doesn't affect gameplay and isn't mandatory to use.0 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stop whining about something that doesn't affect gameplay and isn't mandatory to use.
We are whining because it does effect gameplay and the damaging affects to the game and community are mandatory. This has been apparent after every game has implemented them and I don't want to see it happen here.Edited by JimT722 on November 16, 2016 6:09AM11 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stop whining about something that doesn't affect gameplay and isn't mandatory to use.
We are whining because it does effect gameplay and the damaging affects to the game and community are mandatory. This has been apparent after every game has implemented them and I don't want to see it happen here.
What he said ^2 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I'll agree that the freedom to make your own choices is important, even if they are bad ones. People can become addicted to and/or abuse all manner of substances or experiences and I'm not advocating anything like outlawing all the ways people can hurt themselves.
Ah yes, there are other bad things in the world and this bad thing is not as bad so there is no reason to speak out against it. All humans should be robots and always make the correct decision and compassion for those who cannot be perfect all the time is a waste. Neat.rotaugen454 wrote: »I guess the complaint is that people with a gambling addiction will spend a lot on this. The thing is, if they really have an addiction, they will just spend that money elsewhere anyway.
By this logic I should start selling illegal drugs to addicts. They already have an addiction, so they'll just buy stuff from somewhere else if not from me. Time to make some bank now that I am free from any moral consequence!
in a few parts of the world, its not only sold, but given to addicts by government for exactly that reason, they are going to do it anyways, might as well get them to do it as safely as possible.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/crosstown-clinic-heroin-addiction-1.3779768
I was not referring to the moral / ethical ramifications of treating drug addicts by providing them with low-cost/free, clean drugs. There are many ways to treat addiction and we as a society are still grappling with the most effective and compassionate ways of doing so.
My comment was an attempt to point out that ZOS enriching themselves at the expense of those of us with debilitating personality disorders is no less repulsive than street pushers who do the same.The harsh reality is that if someone with a gambling problem is playing this game and not seeking change, then yes that same money would have been gambled away to something else already and I dont have any sympathy. If someone is really wanting to change and working towards it then they have my sympathy, but we cannot design a game for the small percentage this would effect IMO. This is an adults game, in the adult world gambling is widely accepted.
A few points:- Your lack of sympathy for people who struggle with problems you are thankfully without does not make the exploitation of those people any less disgusting. I'm happy for you that gambling addiction or other compulsive behaviors are not something that people close to you have struggled with, that must be nice.
- This is not a game design issue, crown crates are almost entirely divorced from the actual game. This is a ploy by ZOS to exploit information asymmetry between them and their customers for the purpose of enticing people to spend more than they otherwise would.
- Gambling is wildly accepted, this is true. I even enjoy gambling personally. However there is a big difference between what we know as gambling and what we've seen of the crown crates. When I step up to a blackjack table I know the odds. The rules of the game are clearly stated up front, there is no information asymmetry. This is not the situation with what we've seen of the crown crates, they are intentionally opaque and deceptive. This makes them less of a "gambling" service and more of a "scam."
Its life, time to get over it, we see food being pushed on obese people, we see gambling being pushed on gambling addicts, we see cigarettes pushed on smokers, in all walks of life we see it, seeing it in a game is the least of society problems. The moment we stop giving the rights to choose to the majority because of the minority is the moment we lose freedom of choice. Time to grow up, put our big boy pants on and take responsibility for our own actions while us as a society supports it the best we can, taking things away is not the answer. The sooner we all learn to do this, the better off everyone will be.
Here we have the "I'll be fine what's wrong with everyone else?" argument, always a classic.Blah blah blah crown crates, yeah I get your point, just I do not agree with it. I would not spend a cent on in game items, that will not change with crown crates, only thing I will ever spend money on in game is that which makes my game time more enjoyable, that choice on what that is, is up to the user and should remain that way.
Slot machine odds can vary by jurisdiction and machine but must meet baseline standards set by state gaming boards (at least in the US).What are the odds of a slot machine? From my understanding it can vary depends on the machine settings, also from my understanding its the most popular form of gambling in Vegas.
If you don't want to get sucked into a crown crate debate then why are you posting comments in a crown crate debate? Almost seems like you might not have the iron-clad, robotic impulse control that you assume all other humans should have. Very interesting!Regardless, I cannot get sucked into another crown crates debate, its just ridiculous, time to call the whambulance.
Alright, you enticed me, I enjoy a good debate anyways.
First off, you are completely exaggerating my point, I stated people with problems should be offered help. What I am pointing out is there are many examples of what can be considered bad habits and a huge spectrum within those bad habits of how they would effect ones well being, tell me where does it stop? The prospect of making a bad choice is a part of life, that choice is our own responsibility, no one else should have to share that burden.
Some people have video game addictions, debilitating ones, so should we all not play this game so those people do not have the temptations? Should we stop making games altogether? If no, how is it any different from gambling?
However, I see a stark difference between what ZOS has done in the past and what the crown crates portend. Up until the debut of these crates, everything offered by ZOS has been very straightforward. Spend X dollars on Y crowns, then spend Z crowns on a mount or a pet or whatever. Pay $15 / month for a sub a get a crafting bag. No trickery, no hidden gotchas.
The crates are something entirely different. The model that they previewed on the PTS was intentionally opaque and exploitive. Crates as we saw them are designed to exploit customers' lack of information about how they work, and I think that style of business is ethically repulsive because it takes advantage of the most vulnerable among us. There are ways they could address this problem:- They could publish the drop rates so that people could make a semi-accurate prediction as to what a particular item will cost. Not everyone will do the math, but then not everyone will do the math to make sure they can afford that cool 10k crown mount that just came out.
- They could award crown gems in a deterministic fashion. If every crate was worth at least 3 gems, and apex rewards cost 300 gems, then one could assume that it would take a maximum of 100 crates to get what you're looking for.
Either of those options would remove what I consider to be the exploitive part of the system: the fact that the cost per reward is completely opaque. I still would not like them, but I wouldn't consider cancelling my sub over them.
If they got rid of the exclusive garbage too I would probably be in the "meh, I don't care" camp right along with you.
I'm all for ZOS making money and keeping the lights on, but we all have to draw the line somewhere. For some of us it's P2W maelstrom weapons in the crates, for others it's desirable cosmetics you have to gamble for. Myself, I draw the line where I see certain business practices designed around causing real harm to real people. Since I'm not a stakeholder at ZOS all I can do is repeatedly point out my ethical objections to what we saw on the PTS and hope that ZOS decides that playing fair with their customers is a better long-term plan.As for your other comment about I am fine, yes I am, I also get why some are not fine despite your assumptions, we are not always going to agree as gamers because we have various reasons for playing. End of the day ZOS is a business, they do not cater to us, they cater to making money, as much money as possible. Any smart business knows that to accomplish that, a huge part is keeping its customer base happy, will everyone be happy? No, but I think the majority will keep on trucking without a care and things are being overblown.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion4 -
DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Luckily in the EU were entitled to a refund on any online purchase within 14 days regardless of our reason...I'd snap up a few ks worth...don't get what I want..demand refund. All legit. Bet zos don't actually know this either. Don't play ball..don't worry ms will have to handle the refund for you and take it back from you..Hazar.PC Master Race
1001CP
8 Flawless Toons, all Classes.
Master Angler
Dro-M'artha Destroyer (at last)
Tamriel Hero
Grand Overlord
Every Skyshard
Down With BOP!1 -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just watched the Miss Bizz vids...say that five times fast. Good job @MissBizz
Wow...that was more smarmy and more manipulative than anything I've seen or imagined. Just the misuse of the word, reward, was nauseating.
And throwing an entire catalog of items behind a curtain of currency obtained only through bad luck and disappointment is twisted.
I accept that this studio has its faults but I need to feel that, as a company, they have a core level of decency. No, they don't need to only eat eggs from free range chickens or the like but they do need to regard customers as something more than poultry.
This crate crap won't make folks leave out of anger. Rather, the ones who do will slink away quietly, embarrassed that they ever did business with this bunch.6 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.Allow cross-platform transfers and merges3 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭CRAAAATES
also, I don't mind the crates. I won't buy them anyway. But some will = income for Zos = more $$ to make content for ESO٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."0 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!0 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
So would I, but I currently live in England :PAllow cross-platform transfers and merges0 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
So would I, but I currently live in England :P
Same :P kinda sucks as they have a Writer/Designer job that I would love to go for!Edited by JD2013 on November 16, 2016 10:02AMSweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!0 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
So would I, but I currently live in England :P
Same :P kinda sucks as they have a Writer/Designer job that I would love to go for!
Same. Honestly I'd LOVE to write for the game, seeing as it's what I do anyway.Allow cross-platform transfers and merges0 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
So would I, but I currently live in England :P
Same :P kinda sucks as they have a Writer/Designer job that I would love to go for!
Same. Honestly I'd LOVE to write for the game, seeing as it's what I do anyway.
Same here! What do you do? I love taking to fellow writer types. I am currently writing film stuff and getting into directing
I would also LOVE to write for an ES game. The lore is just fabulous. Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!0 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
Not caring IS supporting. I'm hoping people will realize that after everything that happened this year.
Yes, they are coming. But they could come in a less harmful way. Not if people accept them this easily, of course.
Here's what ZOS can do to make them easier to stomach:
1 - No exclusives, or at most, only themed collectibles being exclusive.
2 - Increased return of gems per repeated collectibles - at the bare minimum half of what you need to buy something of the same tier, although what would be fair and reasonable would be the full gem price.
3 - Allow people to trade unwanted collectibles for gems, even if they are not repeated (maybe these could get half of the gems refunded and the repeated ones could give a full refund).
This would mean people would "need" to buy less crates, they wouldn't be that profitable and would mainly be a way of getting retired items. That would mean a smaller chance of the crates becoming the main source of income and therefore the main priority. Even if it isn't a much lower chance, at least it would make the company look a little better. I really wished ZOS wouldn't go dragging their reputation in the mud now.
Oh, and publishing the odds too. It would be the honest thing to do.Edited by Abeille on November 16, 2016 10:18AMJust so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.6 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
Not caring IS supporting. I'm hoping people will realize that after everything that happened this year.
Yes, they are coming. But they could come in a less harmful way. Not if people accept them this easily, of course.
Here's what ZOS can do to make them easier to stomach:
1 - No exclusives, or at most, only themed collectibles being exclusive.
2 - Increased return of gems per repeated collectibles - at the bare minimum half of what you need to buy something of the same tier, although what would be fair and reasonable would be the full gem price.
3 - Allow people to trade unwanted collectibles for gems, even if they are not repeated (maybe these could get half of the gema refunded and the repeated ones could give a full refund).
This would mean people would need to buy less crates, they wouldn't be that profitable and would mainly be a way of getting retired items. That would mean a smaller chance of the crates becoming the main source of income and therefore the main priority. Even if it isn't a much lower chance, at least it would make the company look a little better. I really wished ZOS wouldn't go dragging their reputation in the mud now.
I will agree to disagree with you that not caring is supporting, it is just another version of the absolutes that people tend to talk in these days, rather than middle ground.
However, I agree with you on the Crown Gems return. That could certainly stand to be be higher. I disagree that there should not be exclusives, that is what entices people in the first place. HOWEVER, they should limit the exclusives severely.
But if they weren't profitable, they would not go into the game.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!0 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
So would I, but I currently live in England :P
Same :P kinda sucks as they have a Writer/Designer job that I would love to go for!
Same. Honestly I'd LOVE to write for the game, seeing as it's what I do anyway.
Same here! What do you do? I love taking to fellow writer types. I am currently writing film stuff and getting into directing I would also LOVE to write for an ES game. The lore is just fabulous.
Sadly nothing quite so exciting. Business to business journalism and content marketing currently. I got my start in film blogging almost ten years ago now but like ZOS, I went where the money was
Also playing around with my own fantasy world building project, developing the lore etc so that I can tap into it for short stories and bigger projects
On topic though - as @Abeille quite rightly points out, apathy and inaction can be just as damaging as active support. Hopefully this year has illustrated that doing nothing is not an option for those who want to affect positive change.
The same goes for game development - do you think that MMO devs would be as willing to freely move to such a blatantly anti-consumer method of money making if customers stood together and actively opposed the move? It's the apathy of gamers that has allowed business models to make this shift in the first place, the responsibility lies as much with us for letting them get away with it, as it does with them for letting greed overshadow ethics and corporate social responsibility.Edited by ItsGlaive on November 16, 2016 10:23AMAllow cross-platform transfers and merges4 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
Not caring IS supporting. I'm hoping people will realize that after everything that happened this year.
what?
if you are not for it your against it/ if your not against it you are for it?
rubbish.... that is just the kind of absolutist bs that i despise.
it is possible to be indifferent to things you know.
0 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
Not caring IS supporting. I'm hoping people will realize that after everything that happened this year.
Yes, they are coming. But they could come in a less harmful way. Not if people accept them this easily, of course.
Here's what ZOS can do to make them easier to stomach:
1 - No exclusives, or at most, only themed collectibles being exclusive.
2 - Increased return of gems per repeated collectibles - at the bare minimum half of what you need to buy something of the same tier, although what would be fair and reasonable would be the full gem price.
3 - Allow people to trade unwanted collectibles for gems, even if they are not repeated (maybe these could get half of the gema refunded and the repeated ones could give a full refund).
This would mean people would need to buy less crates, they wouldn't be that profitable and would mainly be a way of getting retired items. That would mean a smaller chance of the crates becoming the main source of income and therefore the main priority. Even if it isn't a much lower chance, at least it would make the company look a little better. I really wished ZOS wouldn't go dragging their reputation in the mud now.
I will agree to disagree with you that not caring is supporting, it is just another version of the absolutes that people tend to talk in these days, rather than middle ground.
However, I agree with you on the Crown Gems return. That could certainly stand to be be higher. I disagree that there should not be exclusives, that is what entices people in the first place. HOWEVER, they should limit the exclusives severely.
But if they weren't profitable, they would not go into the game.
They don't need to not be profitable, they need to be less profitable than the other ways the game makes money with (regular Crown Store sales, DLC sales, ESO+ and box sales). Or at least not be TOO much more profitable than those as to not become the priority. They can't also flop too hard, or we will start seeing things in the crates that impact gameplay more directly as to make them more attractive.
And keep in mind that "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". You can disagree all you want, but what do you think benefits the implementation of these horrible things on the state they are now? Expressing your discontent or accepting it silently while trying to invalidate people's concerns regarding the future ahead with these? Honestly.
I for one prefer the "at least I tried" feeling than the "I didn't speak up when I had the chance" feeling.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
Not caring IS supporting. I'm hoping people will realize that after everything that happened this year.
what?
if you are not for it your against it/ if your not against it you are for it?
rubbish.... that is just the kind of absolutist bs that i despise.
it is possible to be indifferent to things you know.
I had hoped that this year would at least have served as a lesson on what happens when you stay silent.
I guess not.
ZOS doesn't need you to say "yes" to the crates, they only need you to stay silent for that to count as approval. And you guys who don't care also help a lot by trying to invalidate people's concerns about them, so you are actually being quite supportive of the crates with your behavior.Edited by Abeille on November 16, 2016 10:37AMJust so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.3 -
Why is anyone bothered about cosmetic items in lucky boxes. If you don't want them don't buy them. The game is in a good place now. This will barley change anything.0
-
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Savodral_Maryralu wrote: »Why is anyone bothered about cosmetic items in lucky boxes. If you don't want them don't buy them. The game is in a good place now. This will barley change anything.
The reasons were explained ad nauseum. You can read the thread and find your answer if you are actually looking for one Edited by Abeille on November 16, 2016 10:42AMJust so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.5 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think this gif accurately sums up my feelings on Crown Crates and the posts surrounding them:
They are cosmetic items and food that you can craft better, and XP scrolls we now have an equivalent to in-game. I am happy for others to spend money on them to help keep the lights on at ZOS though!
Pretty much sums up 2016 in a nutshell. We've seen what impact the "I don't care because it doesn't directly effect me" attitude can have in quite stark terms this year. In gaming, it leads to devs continuing to push the bar on what's acceptable vs what is blatant exploitation.
Just because I don't care, does not mean I support them either
Now, in an ideal world I would rather they weren't going in the game. But they are. No amount of endless circles will make ZOS change their decision.
Also if you're so terribly concerned about the state of the game;
https://jobs.zenimax.com/locations/view/7
They seem to be hiring a lot of people. Why not get in yourself? Work from inside? I would try if I lived in the USA.
So would I, but I currently live in England :P
Same :P kinda sucks as they have a Writer/Designer job that I would love to go for!
Same. Honestly I'd LOVE to write for the game, seeing as it's what I do anyway.
Same here! What do you do? I love taking to fellow writer types. I am currently writing film stuff and getting into directing I would also LOVE to write for an ES game. The lore is just fabulous.
Sadly nothing quite so exciting. Business to business journalism and content marketing currently. I got my start in film blogging almost ten years ago now but like ZOS, I went where the money was
Also playing around with my own fantasy world building project, developing the lore etc so that I can tap into it for short stories and bigger projects
On topic though - as @Abeille quite rightly points out, apathy and inaction can be just as damaging as active support. Hopefully this year has illustrated that doing nothing is not an option for those who want to affect positive change.
The same goes for game development - do you think that MMO devs would be as willing to freely move to such a blatantly anti-consumer method of money making if customers stood together and actively opposed the move? It's the apathy of gamers that has allowed business models to make this shift in the first place, the responsibility lies as much with us for letting them get away with it, as it does with them for letting greed overshadow ethics and corporate social responsibility.
See, I am going to potentially make myself seem older than I actually am, however, I am going to plunge in.
(But first, I think it's wonderful that you are creating your own fantasy world! I love it when people create their own world and lore for projects. Massive kudos there )
Now, I agree that apathy can be a killer. As someone who, through no fault of my own, has huge waves of apathy at times (seriously, depression is not a fun thing) I am slightly annoyed when people talk about apathy with regards to things like this. Purely because everyone these days seems to need to turn everything into a cause to fight. Not everything is a cause to fight.
When there IS an actual cause to fight (civil rights, things like that) you will find me fighting for what is the right thing to do. I have attended many marches and parades for equality, fighting government cuts, things like that, those are worthy causes to be fighting for.
What we are talking about here, essentially, is a company putting cosmetic items into a game to increase revenue. I see a lot of people on a lot of gaming forums deriding gaming companies for making money. And let's face it, that is what gaming companies are for. They are machines to make money and to provide entertainment. And the costs of game design are going up and up all the time, let alone paying for office space, server upkeep, everyone's wages, things like that. It is simple economics. If people buy a product, they will sell a product. Because, without streams of income, things go belly up. Hardware and technology and development is not cheap.
Now, in an ideal world, they would not lock things behind exclusives like these crates. It is slightly dubious to be doing this, but we must not forget people's love of impulse buying. That is why they place chocolate bars, for example, at checkouts in a Supermarket. And believe me, these are for impulse buyers with disposable income who love shinies. Every company in the history of business has done this to drive up revenue. (Of course, moreso in the last 10 or more years in the gaming industry.) However I am not the kind of person who gives in to impulse buying. I may have about 28k crowns from my sub, but that does not mean that I am going to purchase a single one.
So when I say I don't care about Crown Crates going into the game, what I mean to say is it is not something that I see as a fight. It is not a cause to be fought to me, at least. As I have gotten into my late 20's/early 30's, I pick and choose what I fight. If ZOS wish to make money to keep the game going, then great. I want this game to keep going as the Elder Scrolls is my favourite series. The world and lore are just beautiful.
I see the world in more than just absolutes. I have no doubt that this decision is from management at ZOS. I am sure that a lot of the devs do not like this decision. But at the end of the day, the company is paying the devs wages. Sadly nobody in business is irreplaceable.
And in an ideal world, as I have said, they would not be implementing these. But they are, and I am pretty sure that the decision is settled. As stated above, there are things they could do to alleviate people's worries, but at the end of the day, ZOS are not our friends. They are here to sell a product. They have a lovely team of devs and community managers, who are an absolute delight to talk to, but they are still here to sell a product, increase revenue streams, and keep the game profitable.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!0 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭You make a lot of reasonable points, and context is absolutely important here - you're 100% correct that there are far bigger fish to fry thanks to certain current events.
That said, corporate fairness is quite often in the news and for good reason. It might not require a march on parliament, but it has never been out of the ordinary to call out a company for unfair business practices, and these boxes are explicity designed to wring as much money as possible out of customers for as little developer input as possible. The research that has been done on these has demonstrated that people will end up forking out 5, maybe even 10x as many crowns for a product as they should be. So let's keep that in mind too please.Allow cross-platform transfers and merges3 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You make a lot of reasonable points, and context is absolutely important here - you're 100% correct that there are far bigger fish to fry thanks to certain current events.
That said, corporate fairness is quite often in the news and for good reason. It might not require a march on parliament, but it has never been out of the ordinary to call out a company for unfair business practices, and these boxes are explicity designed to wring as much money as possible out of customers for as little developer input as possible. The research that has been done on these has demonstrated that people will end up forking out 5, maybe even 10x as many crowns for a product as they should be. So let's keep that in mind too please.
Oh I agree again.
But again, in business, why get people to spend once when they can spend again and again? A prime business tactic.
Those impulse buyers that I touched on are who they are aiming at. Some see through it, some have no interest, and others will buy. Different people do different things.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!1 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭You make a lot of reasonable points, and context is absolutely important here - you're 100% correct that there are far bigger fish to fry thanks to certain current events.
That said, corporate fairness is quite often in the news and for good reason. It might not require a march on parliament, but it has never been out of the ordinary to call out a company for unfair business practices, and these boxes are explicity designed to wring as much money as possible out of customers for as little developer input as possible. The research that has been done on these has demonstrated that people will end up forking out 5, maybe even 10x as many crowns for a product as they should be. So let's keep that in mind too please.
Oh I agree again.
But again, in business, why get people to spend once when they can spend again and again? A prime business tactic.
Those impulse buyers that I touched on are who they are aiming at. Some see through it, some have no interest, and others will buy. Different people do different things.
I understand, business will do anything for money if the public allow them to get away with it. Which brings us back to the customer apathy thing again
Companies in other industries get picked up for shady practices akin to this all the time, but for some reason to date, gaming has been given a free pass, and the monetisation of gaming has become a bit of a law unto itself. However, this can and should be argued against before the bar slips even lower, because with apathy that is the inevitable outcome - precisely because businesses will do anything for a few quid.Allow cross-platform transfers and merges2 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You make a lot of reasonable points, and context is absolutely important here - you're 100% correct that there are far bigger fish to fry thanks to certain current events.
That said, corporate fairness is quite often in the news and for good reason. It might not require a march on parliament, but it has never been out of the ordinary to call out a company for unfair business practices, and these boxes are explicity designed to wring as much money as possible out of customers for as little developer input as possible. The research that has been done on these has demonstrated that people will end up forking out 5, maybe even 10x as many crowns for a product as they should be. So let's keep that in mind too please.
Oh I agree again.
But again, in business, why get people to spend once when they can spend again and again? A prime business tactic.
Those impulse buyers that I touched on are who they are aiming at. Some see through it, some have no interest, and others will buy. Different people do different things.
I understand, business will do anything for money if the public allow them to get away with it. Which brings us back to the customer apathy thing again
Companies in other industries get picked up for shady practices akin to this all the time, but for some reason to date, gaming has been given a free pass, and the monetisation of gaming has become a bit of a law unto itself. However, this can and should be argued against before the bar slips even lower, because with apathy that is the inevitable outcome - precisely because businesses will do anything for a few quid.
See, gaming to me as I have observed over the years is getting expensive. Because the cost of making games is becoming more so.
I don't see this so much as a "letting them get away with it" so much as they are going to do what they wish to drive income forward. To let them get away with it, there has to be open discussion from both sides about a matter. There is no discussion from ZOS on this matter, and they are being implemented. No amount of outrage can change this fact.
There was similar outrage over the crafting bag and several other decisions ZOS have made, and I have to say that I do find a lot of people very reactionary and only thinking in absolutes over this game starting from the moment the game was announced.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!0
