token system!!!

NewBlacksmurf

Ling wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The way I read the OP is:
-Please replace the RNG system with a mandatory grind for each encounter that no longer offers random loot. Personally, that is worse in my opinion

i never said replace it ... i meant add tokens beside the normal rng loot!

vmsa is boring after 200+ runs, i just run it, because im in hope to get the weapon what i need ...

but with a token system you have every vmsa run / goldkey for chest a chance to get the item what you need AND you know after 100 vmsa runs you get your item 100%!

i just want a goal for myself for doing pledges or vmsa runs and not always only a "chance" to get it now or in 3 years ...

Had you considered the actual chance?

Meaning do you have an idea of how likely it is for all the loot you hope drops out of all chances.

I don't know the actual chance but in a PTS thread someone tries to give a really good context and it was really low. So 300 runs while that seems like too many, it's not a lot in the whole context.

Lucious90

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

Playing a game with different intentions has nothing to do with a looting system and is a lazy rebuttal , they should keep the RNG system in place for crafters gold blah blah. I disagree with the OP in the removal of RNG gearing as we both are in accordance there.

But a token system gives something to work towards instead of gating the rest of your game behind RNG, there is no git gud scrub, play more, if you dont get a roll you dont get a roll, ran the area for spriggan, and for almost a week I got the same rings and armor pieces with prosperous and training, from the same set..... All of that just for pvp, and to be quite frank, pve can keep it, give Cyrodil and IC a good token system, for crafting, motifs and gear (No bags with additional RNG). What wide purpose does a RNG gearing system provide? Crafting? You'd get that regardless, that "I got an upgrade!" moment? You can get the same satisfaction from a token system. Replayability? Tokens would do nothing to the replayability of content, especially if you play the game differently than I.

I think what occurring is you and I are looking for similar items but our ideas on how better to achieve this differs.

Could be, I just hate seeing this game ruining its potential in my eyes, and putting a random system to keep people playing

Its not lazy, its a design that you don't like or that you disagree with only because of your experiences. I can't agree that the games potential is being ruined...

In response to your question about what RNG does provide.
-research traits
-mats
-sets to compare the 2,3,4 or 5 set bonus regardless of trait and gear type


I've played a few games with tokens systems and .....one reason I'm here is because I personally feel a token system is poor and contributes to creating grinds and the absence of content frequency due to waiting on people to grind.

Ive answered the reseach traits mats, etc those come just by questing, and trading out gear, what is interesting is the comparing sets..... There are plenty of resources that allow you to do that out side of game, Im surprised they havent introduced an in-game addon yet, its still not a defense for RNG vs token but hey different strokes for different folks on that one.

We also have differing views on the "grind" in the game. Where as I see forcing me to run content over and over again ( Im at 100 vMA runs and no sharpened swords yet) and getting the same gear/worthless gear/traits, as a grind vs a token system gives me some control over what I get, now they need to be appropriately priced and the drop rates/amounts need to be fair and consistent to prevent a grind thats already in game with the pure RNG loot system. Where as you see a token system adds a grind, because you have to save up the tokens to get 1 peice of gear, vs the chance for it to drop, and the added benefits in professions. I got it and get it. I am with you RNG shouldnt be gotten rid of like OP suggested

A token system wouldn't affect the RNG system at all, tokens shouldnt drop from all content but should be implemented even if just on the pvp side. We can agree to disagree on that, and I do respect that, being a pure RNG or pure Token system is pure cancer, there should, and I would go as far to say needs to be a hybrid system in place

1. Your idea and suggestion isn't a better idea for research, mats. As one of my earlier replies to another user suggest. You're asking to change the whole RNG system that works for many so that the few things you desire, you get. In doing so, you force other players to only be able to progress by "grinding" instead of just playing in different environments.

Me personally, I've literally done all the quests in the game except for DB content and I'm a good ways through it. Why would I be O K with being forced to buy content and do stuff just so those who want tokens can be happy?

2. Comparing sets.... its of value to compare sets as thats how most of us determine which items and traits are most viable.
In your suggestion, you're changing the system to force people to only play with limited builds and decisions vs. playing as they like. Its why I suggested reworking traits as all 9 don't always make sense for every item, however their are opportunities to either adjust some or limit some by item type.

Its also VERY important to understand that all platforms do not and will not have add-ons. Any suggestion like this has to make sense. If your idea is forcing players to get on a PC or another device, that doesn't work because we shouldn't assume that makes sense when this can be done in-game today.

3. Giving you control.....over what you get.
I think this is where the larger issue is. You and others feel you deserve the right to determine what you get. The developers design is you get what drops based on their loot systems some being accumulation based while others are purely random. This game based upon what the developers have shared and presented has not taken a PvE token approach and while anything is possible, I believe such requests need to be VERY DETAILED and thoughtful. I'm trying to identify gaps in your suggestions to possibly encourage you to better detail it all.

Your ideas and suggestions when i read them, create too many variables that would adversely impact what i enjoy, as such, I'm suggesting you go into specific details and think of how not to adversely impact those who do not have interest in any token systems regardless of opinions.

@NewBlacksmurf I think you misunderstood what I am suggesting, adjust the loot table, Prosperous and Training have no purpose in end game loot tables. I am not trying to game the system to gain what I want but a pure RNG system is no go in any game, Destiny, DC Online, LOTRO WoW, all of these have some sort of pure RNG system, and their forums are riddled with complaints about a pure system.
1) I suggested keeping the loot system, for that, but it isnt a reason to stay in a PURE RNG system. And naturally as you level you will gain the items needed for DC and Research, again I AM NOT SAYING RNG IS TOTALLY BAD.
2) You would not be limited in builds, you would be able to progress at a steadier rate than sacrificing your first born child to the RNG algorithms just to hope you get the piece you want/need. RNG has its place in elements of the game, and I have even gone as far as say KEEP IT IN PVE, GIVE PVP THE TOKEN SYSTEM. You can still compare sets, that would not change at all, either in game or out of game, Deltia has a great guides for that as does the ESO wiki and plenty of other resources to ensure you can compare sets, so I am not 100% where you are going with that
3) Yes give us control a token system allows some degree of control of what we get. AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING PURE TOKEN SYSTEM. And to be frank idc if pve gets it, pvp should have it though. I am not sure how much more detailed you want, you want how many tokens should drop? How many tokens a peice of armor should cost?

Its simple, introduce tiered armor sets. Using the Current trials, they can be split into tier 1 and tier 1.5/2. You get your RNG loot table that drops your tier equivalent gear from the trial, the end of the trial you get a token for a specific gear set, in ESO just make it a light/medium/heavy accessory/weapon token drop, that can be traded within the trial, a bit of RNG within the PvE sector BUT the reward is a piece of what you want for running a trial. You then go to a vendor, undaunted could work for you immersion types, and viola you get a piece of gear based on the token dropped, smaller loot table on that means more opportunities that are mitigated by the trade-ability of the token, if I trusted developers I would even say introduce a smart loot system to prevent duplicates from happening to a player. The tier tokens are guaranteed drops at the end of the trial, every year introduce harder content and 2 more tier sets and now not only do you give the hard core progression guilds content AND purpose but something for the more laid back guilds and trial runners as well.

PvP, introduce the same tiers but little to no RNG, lower tier armor can be gained with AP as that can come in at a higher rate than tokens that allow you to buy the tier 1.5/2(what ever you want to call it). Keep the end of Campaign tier rewards and rewards of the worthy. This coupled with the release of small scale pvp (10v10v10) would allow pvpers to do the part of the game they want to do without having to grind pve almost endlessly to either get the gold to buy the armor or grind WB, Anchors and Delves endlessly.

There are no variables to determine other than token price for the armor and weapons and how to balance the teir armor sets, it doesnt impact your game play, and quite honestly I dont care about your game play if this is something the community as a whole is behind, not trying to sound mean. A hybrid loot system wouldnt affect anything at all, but gives some incentive to run trials (see how I didnt touch dungeons and delves?) you still get all of your random chance drops for farming mats and traits, and gear comparison(?) but gives the others who want progression in the game possibilities. If this isnt detailed enough for you I am not sure what else I can do for you

jakeedmundson

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Ling wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The way I read the OP is:
-Please replace the RNG system with a mandatory grind for each encounter that no longer offers random loot. Personally, that is worse in my opinion

i never said replace it ... i meant add tokens beside the normal rng loot!

vmsa is boring after 200+ runs, i just run it, because im in hope to get the weapon what i need ...

but with a token system you have every vmsa run / goldkey for chest a chance to get the item what you need AND you know after 100 vmsa runs you get your item 100%!

i just want a goal for myself for doing pledges or vmsa runs and not always only a "chance" to get it now or in 3 years ...

Had you considered the actual chance?

Meaning do you have an idea of how likely it is for all the loot you hope drops out of all chances.

I don't know the actual chance but in a PTS thread someone tries to give a really good context and it was really low. So 300 runs while that seems like too many, it's not a lot in the whole context.

i'm confused by your post.... are you trying to defend the drop system in vMA?.... saying 300 runs is in any way reasonable?
if so.... that is ridiculously stupid. There's a difference between random drops in trials and dungeons and drops in vMA.
We can't trade or sell these items... we're stuck with what we get. And since the loot table is skewed... our chances of getting the 1 item we're after are slim.
Why should many of us have to run this place 100s of times and NOT get the sharpened inferno and/or lightning staff.... and some others run it once or twice and end up getting that item? There NEEDS to be a light at the end of the tunnel... a way to earn the item we're working our asses of to find. How many hours is "reasonable"? Because right now there is no number... just keep running this annoying, hour long content time after time with your fingers crossed.
They at least need to work in a way to choose the TYPE you want and roll it with a random trait... i've run vMA dozens of times now and haven't seen a single lightning staff... the 1 and only item i went in for...

NewBlacksmurf

jakeedmundson wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Ling wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The way I read the OP is:
-Please replace the RNG system with a mandatory grind for each encounter that no longer offers random loot. Personally, that is worse in my opinion

i never said replace it ... i meant add tokens beside the normal rng loot!

vmsa is boring after 200+ runs, i just run it, because im in hope to get the weapon what i need ...

but with a token system you have every vmsa run / goldkey for chest a chance to get the item what you need AND you know after 100 vmsa runs you get your item 100%!

i just want a goal for myself for doing pledges or vmsa runs and not always only a "chance" to get it now or in 3 years ...

Had you considered the actual chance?

Meaning do you have an idea of how likely it is for all the loot you hope drops out of all chances.

I don't know the actual chance but in a PTS thread someone tries to give a really good context and it was really low. So 300 runs while that seems like too many, it's not a lot in the whole context.

i'm confused by your post.... are you trying to defend the drop system in vMA?.... saying 300 runs is in any way reasonable?
if so.... that is ridiculously stupid. There's a difference between random drops in trials and dungeons and drops in vMA.
We can't trade or sell these items... we're stuck with what we get. And since the loot table is skewed... our chances of getting the 1 item we're after are slim.
Why should many of us have to run this place 100s of times and NOT get the sharpened inferno and/or lightning staff.... and some others run it once or twice and end up getting that item? There NEEDS to be a light at the end of the tunnel... a way to earn the item we're working our asses of to find. How many hours is "reasonable"? Because right now there is no number... just keep running this annoying, hour long content time after time with your fingers crossed.
They at least need to work in a way to choose the TYPE you want and roll it with a random trait... i've run vMA dozens of times now and haven't seen a single lightning staff... the 1 and only item i went in for...

I'm Saying that it's not realistic to judge 50, 100, 300, etc runs as too many or too little without a better understanding of what you're chances are for the desired loot. I see ppl complaining but there's are hundreds of thousands of possible results.

I believe the larger issue is that people are doing these purely for certain drops and have forgotten that it's only you who is in the loot table vs what happens in a group or trials where there are 4 to 12 players sharing a loot table.

NewBlacksmurf

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

Playing a game with different intentions has nothing to do with a looting system and is a lazy rebuttal , they should keep the RNG system in place for crafters gold blah blah. I disagree with the OP in the removal of RNG gearing as we both are in accordance there.

But a token system gives something to work towards instead of gating the rest of your game behind RNG, there is no git gud scrub, play more, if you dont get a roll you dont get a roll, ran the area for spriggan, and for almost a week I got the same rings and armor pieces with prosperous and training, from the same set..... All of that just for pvp, and to be quite frank, pve can keep it, give Cyrodil and IC a good token system, for crafting, motifs and gear (No bags with additional RNG). What wide purpose does a RNG gearing system provide? Crafting? You'd get that regardless, that "I got an upgrade!" moment? You can get the same satisfaction from a token system. Replayability? Tokens would do nothing to the replayability of content, especially if you play the game differently than I.

I think what occurring is you and I are looking for similar items but our ideas on how better to achieve this differs.

Could be, I just hate seeing this game ruining its potential in my eyes, and putting a random system to keep people playing

Its not lazy, its a design that you don't like or that you disagree with only because of your experiences. I can't agree that the games potential is being ruined...

In response to your question about what RNG does provide.
-research traits
-mats
-sets to compare the 2,3,4 or 5 set bonus regardless of trait and gear type


I've played a few games with tokens systems and .....one reason I'm here is because I personally feel a token system is poor and contributes to creating grinds and the absence of content frequency due to waiting on people to grind.

Ive answered the reseach traits mats, etc those come just by questing, and trading out gear, what is interesting is the comparing sets..... There are plenty of resources that allow you to do that out side of game, Im surprised they havent introduced an in-game addon yet, its still not a defense for RNG vs token but hey different strokes for different folks on that one.

We also have differing views on the "grind" in the game. Where as I see forcing me to run content over and over again ( Im at 100 vMA runs and no sharpened swords yet) and getting the same gear/worthless gear/traits, as a grind vs a token system gives me some control over what I get, now they need to be appropriately priced and the drop rates/amounts need to be fair and consistent to prevent a grind thats already in game with the pure RNG loot system. Where as you see a token system adds a grind, because you have to save up the tokens to get 1 peice of gear, vs the chance for it to drop, and the added benefits in professions. I got it and get it. I am with you RNG shouldnt be gotten rid of like OP suggested

A token system wouldn't affect the RNG system at all, tokens shouldnt drop from all content but should be implemented even if just on the pvp side. We can agree to disagree on that, and I do respect that, being a pure RNG or pure Token system is pure cancer, there should, and I would go as far to say needs to be a hybrid system in place

1. Your idea and suggestion isn't a better idea for research, mats. As one of my earlier replies to another user suggest. You're asking to change the whole RNG system that works for many so that the few things you desire, you get. In doing so, you force other players to only be able to progress by "grinding" instead of just playing in different environments.

Me personally, I've literally done all the quests in the game except for DB content and I'm a good ways through it. Why would I be O K with being forced to buy content and do stuff just so those who want tokens can be happy?

2. Comparing sets.... its of value to compare sets as thats how most of us determine which items and traits are most viable.
In your suggestion, you're changing the system to force people to only play with limited builds and decisions vs. playing as they like. Its why I suggested reworking traits as all 9 don't always make sense for every item, however their are opportunities to either adjust some or limit some by item type.

Its also VERY important to understand that all platforms do not and will not have add-ons. Any suggestion like this has to make sense. If your idea is forcing players to get on a PC or another device, that doesn't work because we shouldn't assume that makes sense when this can be done in-game today.

3. Giving you control.....over what you get.
I think this is where the larger issue is. You and others feel you deserve the right to determine what you get. The developers design is you get what drops based on their loot systems some being accumulation based while others are purely random. This game based upon what the developers have shared and presented has not taken a PvE token approach and while anything is possible, I believe such requests need to be VERY DETAILED and thoughtful. I'm trying to identify gaps in your suggestions to possibly encourage you to better detail it all.

Your ideas and suggestions when i read them, create too many variables that would adversely impact what i enjoy, as such, I'm suggesting you go into specific details and think of how not to adversely impact those who do not have interest in any token systems regardless of opinions.

@NewBlacksmurf I think you misunderstood what I am suggesting, adjust the loot table, Prosperous and Training have no purpose in end game loot tables. I am not trying to game the system to gain what I want but a pure RNG system is no go in any game, Destiny, DC Online, LOTRO WoW, all of these have some sort of pure RNG system, and their forums are riddled with complaints about a pure system.
1) I suggested keeping the loot system, for that, but it isnt a reason to stay in a PURE RNG system. And naturally as you level you will gain the items needed for DC and Research, again I AM NOT SAYING RNG IS TOTALLY BAD.
2) You would not be limited in builds, you would be able to progress at a steadier rate than sacrificing your first born child to the RNG algorithms just to hope you get the piece you want/need. RNG has its place in elements of the game, and I have even gone as far as say KEEP IT IN PVE, GIVE PVP THE TOKEN SYSTEM. You can still compare sets, that would not change at all, either in game or out of game, Deltia has a great guides for that as does the ESO wiki and plenty of other resources to ensure you can compare sets, so I am not 100% where you are going with that
3) Yes give us control a token system allows some degree of control of what we get. AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING PURE TOKEN SYSTEM. And to be frank idc if pve gets it, pvp should have it though. I am not sure how much more detailed you want, you want how many tokens should drop? How many tokens a peice of armor should cost?

Its simple, introduce tiered armor sets. Using the Current trials, they can be split into tier 1 and tier 1.5/2. You get your RNG loot table that drops your tier equivalent gear from the trial, the end of the trial you get a token for a specific gear set, in ESO just make it a light/medium/heavy accessory/weapon token drop, that can be traded within the trial, a bit of RNG within the PvE sector BUT the reward is a piece of what you want for running a trial. You then go to a vendor, undaunted could work for you immersion types, and viola you get a piece of gear based on the token dropped, smaller loot table on that means more opportunities that are mitigated by the trade-ability of the token, if I trusted developers I would even say introduce a smart loot system to prevent duplicates from happening to a player. The tier tokens are guaranteed drops at the end of the trial, every year introduce harder content and 2 more tier sets and now not only do you give the hard core progression guilds content AND purpose but something for the more laid back guilds and trial runners as well.

PvP, introduce the same tiers but little to no RNG, lower tier armor can be gained with AP as that can come in at a higher rate than tokens that allow you to buy the tier 1.5/2(what ever you want to call it). Keep the end of Campaign tier rewards and rewards of the worthy. This coupled with the release of small scale pvp (10v10v10) would allow pvpers to do the part of the game they want to do without having to grind pve almost endlessly to either get the gold to buy the armor or grind WB, Anchors and Delves endlessly.

There are no variables to determine other than token price for the armor and weapons and how to balance the teir armor sets, it doesnt impact your game play, and quite honestly I dont care about your game play if this is something the community as a whole is behind, not trying to sound mean. A hybrid loot system wouldnt affect anything at all, but gives some incentive to run trials (see how I didnt touch dungeons and delves?) you still get all of your random chance drops for farming mats and traits, and gear comparison(?) but gives the others who want progression in the game possibilities. If this isnt detailed enough for you I am not sure what else I can do for you

I would not be interested in these types of changes. It's too much like other games that I've left or that I tried for a year or 6 months and decided to stay here. I honestly like the current setup with the only changes being to limit the loot table possibilities.

Lucious90

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

Playing a game with different intentions has nothing to do with a looting system and is a lazy rebuttal , they should keep the RNG system in place for crafters gold blah blah. I disagree with the OP in the removal of RNG gearing as we both are in accordance there.

But a token system gives something to work towards instead of gating the rest of your game behind RNG, there is no git gud scrub, play more, if you dont get a roll you dont get a roll, ran the area for spriggan, and for almost a week I got the same rings and armor pieces with prosperous and training, from the same set..... All of that just for pvp, and to be quite frank, pve can keep it, give Cyrodil and IC a good token system, for crafting, motifs and gear (No bags with additional RNG). What wide purpose does a RNG gearing system provide? Crafting? You'd get that regardless, that "I got an upgrade!" moment? You can get the same satisfaction from a token system. Replayability? Tokens would do nothing to the replayability of content, especially if you play the game differently than I.

I think what occurring is you and I are looking for similar items but our ideas on how better to achieve this differs.

Could be, I just hate seeing this game ruining its potential in my eyes, and putting a random system to keep people playing

Its not lazy, its a design that you don't like or that you disagree with only because of your experiences. I can't agree that the games potential is being ruined...

In response to your question about what RNG does provide.
-research traits
-mats
-sets to compare the 2,3,4 or 5 set bonus regardless of trait and gear type


I've played a few games with tokens systems and .....one reason I'm here is because I personally feel a token system is poor and contributes to creating grinds and the absence of content frequency due to waiting on people to grind.

Ive answered the reseach traits mats, etc those come just by questing, and trading out gear, what is interesting is the comparing sets..... There are plenty of resources that allow you to do that out side of game, Im surprised they havent introduced an in-game addon yet, its still not a defense for RNG vs token but hey different strokes for different folks on that one.

We also have differing views on the "grind" in the game. Where as I see forcing me to run content over and over again ( Im at 100 vMA runs and no sharpened swords yet) and getting the same gear/worthless gear/traits, as a grind vs a token system gives me some control over what I get, now they need to be appropriately priced and the drop rates/amounts need to be fair and consistent to prevent a grind thats already in game with the pure RNG loot system. Where as you see a token system adds a grind, because you have to save up the tokens to get 1 peice of gear, vs the chance for it to drop, and the added benefits in professions. I got it and get it. I am with you RNG shouldnt be gotten rid of like OP suggested

A token system wouldn't affect the RNG system at all, tokens shouldnt drop from all content but should be implemented even if just on the pvp side. We can agree to disagree on that, and I do respect that, being a pure RNG or pure Token system is pure cancer, there should, and I would go as far to say needs to be a hybrid system in place

1. Your idea and suggestion isn't a better idea for research, mats. As one of my earlier replies to another user suggest. You're asking to change the whole RNG system that works for many so that the few things you desire, you get. In doing so, you force other players to only be able to progress by "grinding" instead of just playing in different environments.

Me personally, I've literally done all the quests in the game except for DB content and I'm a good ways through it. Why would I be O K with being forced to buy content and do stuff just so those who want tokens can be happy?

2. Comparing sets.... its of value to compare sets as thats how most of us determine which items and traits are most viable.
In your suggestion, you're changing the system to force people to only play with limited builds and decisions vs. playing as they like. Its why I suggested reworking traits as all 9 don't always make sense for every item, however their are opportunities to either adjust some or limit some by item type.

Its also VERY important to understand that all platforms do not and will not have add-ons. Any suggestion like this has to make sense. If your idea is forcing players to get on a PC or another device, that doesn't work because we shouldn't assume that makes sense when this can be done in-game today.

3. Giving you control.....over what you get.
I think this is where the larger issue is. You and others feel you deserve the right to determine what you get. The developers design is you get what drops based on their loot systems some being accumulation based while others are purely random. This game based upon what the developers have shared and presented has not taken a PvE token approach and while anything is possible, I believe such requests need to be VERY DETAILED and thoughtful. I'm trying to identify gaps in your suggestions to possibly encourage you to better detail it all.

Your ideas and suggestions when i read them, create too many variables that would adversely impact what i enjoy, as such, I'm suggesting you go into specific details and think of how not to adversely impact those who do not have interest in any token systems regardless of opinions.

@NewBlacksmurf I think you misunderstood what I am suggesting, adjust the loot table, Prosperous and Training have no purpose in end game loot tables. I am not trying to game the system to gain what I want but a pure RNG system is no go in any game, Destiny, DC Online, LOTRO WoW, all of these have some sort of pure RNG system, and their forums are riddled with complaints about a pure system.
1) I suggested keeping the loot system, for that, but it isnt a reason to stay in a PURE RNG system. And naturally as you level you will gain the items needed for DC and Research, again I AM NOT SAYING RNG IS TOTALLY BAD.
2) You would not be limited in builds, you would be able to progress at a steadier rate than sacrificing your first born child to the RNG algorithms just to hope you get the piece you want/need. RNG has its place in elements of the game, and I have even gone as far as say KEEP IT IN PVE, GIVE PVP THE TOKEN SYSTEM. You can still compare sets, that would not change at all, either in game or out of game, Deltia has a great guides for that as does the ESO wiki and plenty of other resources to ensure you can compare sets, so I am not 100% where you are going with that
3) Yes give us control a token system allows some degree of control of what we get. AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING PURE TOKEN SYSTEM. And to be frank idc if pve gets it, pvp should have it though. I am not sure how much more detailed you want, you want how many tokens should drop? How many tokens a peice of armor should cost?

Its simple, introduce tiered armor sets. Using the Current trials, they can be split into tier 1 and tier 1.5/2. You get your RNG loot table that drops your tier equivalent gear from the trial, the end of the trial you get a token for a specific gear set, in ESO just make it a light/medium/heavy accessory/weapon token drop, that can be traded within the trial, a bit of RNG within the PvE sector BUT the reward is a piece of what you want for running a trial. You then go to a vendor, undaunted could work for you immersion types, and viola you get a piece of gear based on the token dropped, smaller loot table on that means more opportunities that are mitigated by the trade-ability of the token, if I trusted developers I would even say introduce a smart loot system to prevent duplicates from happening to a player. The tier tokens are guaranteed drops at the end of the trial, every year introduce harder content and 2 more tier sets and now not only do you give the hard core progression guilds content AND purpose but something for the more laid back guilds and trial runners as well.

PvP, introduce the same tiers but little to no RNG, lower tier armor can be gained with AP as that can come in at a higher rate than tokens that allow you to buy the tier 1.5/2(what ever you want to call it). Keep the end of Campaign tier rewards and rewards of the worthy. This coupled with the release of small scale pvp (10v10v10) would allow pvpers to do the part of the game they want to do without having to grind pve almost endlessly to either get the gold to buy the armor or grind WB, Anchors and Delves endlessly.

There are no variables to determine other than token price for the armor and weapons and how to balance the teir armor sets, it doesnt impact your game play, and quite honestly I dont care about your game play if this is something the community as a whole is behind, not trying to sound mean. A hybrid loot system wouldnt affect anything at all, but gives some incentive to run trials (see how I didnt touch dungeons and delves?) you still get all of your random chance drops for farming mats and traits, and gear comparison(?) but gives the others who want progression in the game possibilities. If this isnt detailed enough for you I am not sure what else I can do for you

I would not be interested in these types of changes. It's too much like other games that I've left or that I tried for a year or 6 months and decided to stay here. I honestly like the current setup with the only changes being to limit the loot table possibilities.

You may not be interested in those changes, but others are. So I will ask of you what you asked of me, detail why a pure RNG system is better. Why you feel its less "grindy" and helps professions. Go into detail, im curious

Meld777

400+ runs here, no Sharpened Inferno, I gave up. I'd suggest you do the same. Either deal with it or play another game.

There have been hundreds of threads about it. Even in the WhatsApp group of ZOS devs and guild leaders from top guilds this topic is completely ignored. The only comment ever made on this was from Rich Lambert in a real life get-together in Germany, where he said something along the lines of, "We know some people get screwed, but we want you to farm the *** out of the arena if you want your weapons." Those that will never get their weapon in 1000+ runs don't matter because they're so few, it's negligible.

Judgedread101071

Meld777 wrote: »

400+ runs here, no Sharpened Inferno, I gave up. I'd suggest you do the same. Either deal with it or play another game.

There have been hundreds of threads about it. Even in the WhatsApp group of ZOS devs and guild leaders from top guilds this topic is completely ignored. The only comment ever made on this was from Rich Lambert in a real life get-together in Germany, where he said something along the lines of, "We know some people get screwed, but we want you to farm the *** out of the arena if you want your weapons." Those that will never get their weapon in 1000+ runs don't matter because they're so few, it's negligible.

If that's the way they think about "those few that will never get the gear they are busting their arses for" then i really hope their game suffers a well deserved death.

mr_wazzabi

I don't understand the reason for putting an RNG wall in the hardest content in the game. If you can beat VMA, YOU DESERVE A SHARPENED MAELSTROM WEAPON, not charged, infused and powered. Most people can live with precise.

Enough people can't beat it already, so for those that can, we've earned our BiS weapons. An RNG wall is just an insult.

the_man_of_steal

I would like a compromise for VMA that goes like this:

When you finish VMA you get your RNG rewards as normal but you also get one token. Each token allows you to roll for one weapon of your choosing, but RNG is still incorporated as to the trait of the weapon. I believe this solution is best. IMHO

Cheers!

Junipus

@ZOS_PeterT @ZOS_JohanaB Can we get a token system for the forums? For every token system thread we get a token we can save up to put people on permanent ignore where their threads don't appear anywhere and we can retreat to our safe spaces

Soundwave

Just put the weapons on ap vendor already, then you can get what you all the time. Just have to deal with everyone else having it too.

Judgedread101071

Junipus wrote: »

@ZOS_PeterT @ZOS_JohanaB Can we get a token system for the forums? For every token system thread we get a token we can save up to put people on permanent ignore where their threads don't appear anywhere and we can retreat to our safe spaces

No one is forcing you to answer to those threads so feel free NOT to answer to any.
But trolling the people who have a legitimate request and me being one of them, says a lot about you.
You dont like them? Dont post in them!!Simple as that.

Artis

ABSOLUTELY NO BiS or end-game gear should be available for those tokens. Tokens are a catch up system to get starting gear to be able to complete content. NOT a shortcut to the best gear. What you describe would mean that I can infinitely farm the easiest dungeon in game and then get a VMA weapon with a perfect trait, which other players farmed for a while completing VMA - the hardest small-scale content in the game. That's unfair.

Or I can be just running PvP all the time and get the best PVE gear. That makes no sense. Gear is something you need to "earn" and be lucky to get. It was always like that and it should be like that. Earning = owning gear from a certain place should mean you completed that place many times => can do it consistently. Luck = to make sure that not everyone just has the same gear in a week.

mr_wazzabi

Junipus wrote: »

@ZOS_PeterT @ZOS_JohanaB Can we get a token system for the forums? For every token system thread we get a token we can save up to put people on permanent ignore where their threads don't appear anywhere and we can retreat to our safe spaces

Why are you against a token system? Is it because you already have your sharpened weapons and want to be in a special VMA sharpened weapons club?

mr_wazzabi

Artis wrote: »

ABSOLUTELY NO BiS or end-game gear should be available for those tokens. Tokens are a catch up system to get starting gear to be able to complete content. NOT a shortcut to the best gear. What you describe would mean that I can infinitely farm the easiest dungeon in game and then get a VMA weapon with a perfect trait, which other players farmed for a while completing VMA - the hardest small-scale content in the game. That's unfair.

Or I can be just running PvP all the time and get the best PVE gear. That makes no sense. Gear is something you need to "earn" and be lucky to get. It was always like that and it should be like that. Earning = owning gear from a certain place should mean you completed that place many times => can do it consistently. Luck = to make sure that not everyone just has the same gear in a week.

I think each type of content should have its own token.

Vma will have vma tokens.

Vdsa will have vdsa tokens.

Each trial should have their own tokens.

This makes it fair so that you still have to earn your BiS gear.

A suggestion I really like is a trade-in system for tokens. Trade in your piece of crap charged vma bow for a token. 10 tokens can buy a weapon with a trait of your choice.

DangerMan

Have we even had a response from one of the devs yet? Are they willing to entertain any of these ideas, or are we all just wasting our time here?

L2Pissue

i think we all agree that the current RNG system of maelstrom arena is horrible and needs to be changed. either in this threads or the other 100

Pallio

Like the vWGT deal with tokens so you have another way to get that last piece of SPC you need etc.

mr_wazzabi

Pallio wrote: »

Like the vWGT deal with tokens so you have another way to get that last piece of SPC you need etc.

But those pieces have an rng wall too. That's 2 levels of grinding.

An option to select the weapon with the trait we want for a high amount of tokens is fair.

jakeedmundson

1

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

ABSOLUTELY NO BiS or end-game gear should be available for those tokens. Tokens are a catch up system to get starting gear to be able to complete content. NOT a shortcut to the best gear. What you describe would mean that I can infinitely farm the easiest dungeon in game and then get a VMA weapon with a perfect trait, which other players farmed for a while completing VMA - the hardest small-scale content in the game. That's unfair.

Or I can be just running PvP all the time and get the best PVE gear. That makes no sense. Gear is something you need to "earn" and be lucky to get. It was always like that and it should be like that. Earning = owning gear from a certain place should mean you completed that place many times => can do it consistently. Luck = to make sure that not everyone just has the same gear in a week.

I think each type of content should have its own token.

Vma will have vma tokens.

Vdsa will have vdsa tokens.

Each trial should have their own tokens.

This makes it fair so that you still have to earn your BiS gear.

A suggestion I really like is a trade-in system for tokens. Trade in your piece of crap charged vma bow for a token. 10 tokens can buy a weapon with a trait of your choice.

I wouldn't care if i could trade in 10 crap weapons for just a choice of WEAPON with random trait... i could have multiple lightning staff drops tomorrow if that were the case... one of them might be sharpened?

idk

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

I don't understand the reason for putting an RNG wall in the hardest content in the game. If you can beat VMA, YOU DESERVE A SHARPENED MAELSTROM WEAPON, not charged, infused and powered. Most people can live with precise.

Enough people can't beat it already, so for those that can, we've earned our BiS weapons. An RNG wall is just an insult.

@mr_wazzabi

It is a very narrow thought to suggest all vMA weapons need to be sharpened.

There are weapons that drop there where sharpened would be the worst trait possible.

Defending, precise, powered and decisive are better traits in rtaff and defending and decisive are better for tanking.

boom782

I am 100% for a token system BUT the only way tokens should be earned is with vMA competitions. If you want maelstrom weapons then put in the time and beat maelstrom. In no way should they ever be sold to scrubs who cannot beat it or don't put in the time.

I have posted this in multiple threads but a super easy way of doing it would be to give 1 token for vMA competition and 1 token for a maelstrom weapon deconstruction. Then you can buy any vMA weapon for 100 tokens. Still requires a minimum of 50 competitions which is no joke, but at least there is a possible end to the horrific grind.

neo7185

Lucious90 wrote: »

Keep the RNG system, for dungeons, trials, and regular pve adjust the tables....done. For vMA, undaunted and PvP, introduce a token system for gear, rework AP for good pvp supplies, exclusive motifs, crafting stuff, intro gear, for the new 50s that are a step up from crafted gear.

The problem with this game is that its gated in RNG after grind after RNG, you have to grind lvl 50, grind CP(seems almost infinite) in order to do content you have to grind gear (looking at you proc cancer 2016/2017), especially for pvp, to buy desert rose or black rose for PvP its even hidden behind a RNG bag!!! wtf?

RNG is cancer, we should have a token system for some aspects of the game, give some guys the carrot on a stick to choose the size, type, trait of the armor they want

This^^^^
All of this

boom782

neo7185 wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

Keep the RNG system, for dungeons, trials, and regular pve adjust the tables....done. For vMA, undaunted and PvP, introduce a token system for gear, rework AP for good pvp supplies, exclusive motifs, crafting stuff, intro gear, for the new 50s that are a step up from crafted gear.

The problem with this game is that its gated in RNG after grind after RNG, you have to grind lvl 50, grind CP(seems almost infinite) in order to do content you have to grind gear (looking at you proc cancer 2016/2017), especially for pvp, to buy desert rose or black rose for PvP its even hidden behind a RNG bag!!! wtf?

RNG is cancer, we should have a token system for some aspects of the game, give some guys the carrot on a stick to choose the size, type, trait of the armor they want

This^^^^
All of this

Yes, but if they do introduce a token system it needs to be content specific. Meaning PvP tokens earned for doing PvP stuff. Maelstrom tokens earned from beating vMA. PvE tokens earned from completing dungeons and trials, etc.

I'd be really annoyed if they allowed someone with 1mill AP(and no vma completion) buy a maelstrom weapon, or someone who has done 1000 dungeons(but no pvp) purchase black rose items.

jakeedmundson

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

I don't understand the reason for putting an RNG wall in the hardest content in the game. If you can beat VMA, YOU DESERVE A SHARPENED MAELSTROM WEAPON, not charged, infused and powered. Most people can live with precise.

Enough people can't beat it already, so for those that can, we've earned our BiS weapons. An RNG wall is just an insult.

@mr_wazzabi

It is a very narrow thought to suggest all vMA weapons need to be sharpened.

There are weapons that drop there where sharpened would be the worst trait possible.

Defending, precise, powered and decisive are better traits in rtaff and defending and decisive are better for tanking.

Don't forget that the tank and healer weapons that drop in maelstrom are worthless anyway (other set combos are better)... so it doesn't matter if they drop in defending or powered...

I tank... and do not use the mal shield or sword/mace
i heal... and do not use the mal resto staff
i dps... and would LOVE to have a sharpened lightning staff... but for some reason i can find 20+ shields, 20+ bows, and 20+ restos with all traits before i find even a single lightning staff regardless of trait.

DRXHarbinger

Solved it. A crafting station. You need 9 traits to craft the sets which are 1 trait... easy to develop.

One run gives you 1 piece of "style material" you need to refine 10 of them as per usual to craft one item. Easy.

mr_wazzabi

Pallio wrote: »

Like the vWGT deal with tokens so you have another way to get that last piece of SPC you need etc.

But those pieces have an rng wall too. That's 2 levels of grinding.

An option to select the weapon with the trait we want for a high amount of tokens is fair.

pizzaow

Panth141 wrote: »

Reward Boxes

Add 7 boxes to the arena entrance - call them something cool, like:

• The Guardian's Reward - contains vMA S&B - all traits
• The Berserker's Reward - contains vMA 2h - all traits
• The Assassin's Reward - contains vMA DW - all traits
• The Archer's Reward - contains vMA Bow - all traits
• The Elemental Mage's Reward - contains vMA Destro - all Traits
• The Healer's Reward - contains vMA Resto - all traits
• The Champion's Chance - (see below)

I was thinking about a similar system, but have it work closer to ICP group dungeons... Each boss you kill you get a "MSA Key Fragment" and once you've accrued enough you can open a trophy vault where you have access to the individual chests (as Panth141 mentioned above); the traits are still RNG (but possibly weighted differently).

Completing it works as it does today; you get one weapon and some key fragments too.

If key fragments drop on every boss, you'd be able to acquire a MSA weapon by farming the early bosses, which is debatably a good idea. You could skew the fragment drops to the point where you'd need to beat stage 1 150 times in order to open the vault, but ~5 times all the way through you'd have enough keys. You could even take it further where nMSA drops fragments too (maybe opens a CP150 trophy room?)

Another idea is to have "hard mode", where you read a scroll before the last boss on vet mode. You could get 2 drops instead of one in this case.

NewBlacksmurf

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

Playing a game with different intentions has nothing to do with a looting system and is a lazy rebuttal , they should keep the RNG system in place for crafters gold blah blah. I disagree with the OP in the removal of RNG gearing as we both are in accordance there.

But a token system gives something to work towards instead of gating the rest of your game behind RNG, there is no git gud scrub, play more, if you dont get a roll you dont get a roll, ran the area for spriggan, and for almost a week I got the same rings and armor pieces with prosperous and training, from the same set..... All of that just for pvp, and to be quite frank, pve can keep it, give Cyrodil and IC a good token system, for crafting, motifs and gear (No bags with additional RNG). What wide purpose does a RNG gearing system provide? Crafting? You'd get that regardless, that "I got an upgrade!" moment? You can get the same satisfaction from a token system. Replayability? Tokens would do nothing to the replayability of content, especially if you play the game differently than I.

I think what occurring is you and I are looking for similar items but our ideas on how better to achieve this differs.

Could be, I just hate seeing this game ruining its potential in my eyes, and putting a random system to keep people playing

Its not lazy, its a design that you don't like or that you disagree with only because of your experiences. I can't agree that the games potential is being ruined...

In response to your question about what RNG does provide.
-research traits
-mats
-sets to compare the 2,3,4 or 5 set bonus regardless of trait and gear type


I've played a few games with tokens systems and .....one reason I'm here is because I personally feel a token system is poor and contributes to creating grinds and the absence of content frequency due to waiting on people to grind.

Ive answered the reseach traits mats, etc those come just by questing, and trading out gear, what is interesting is the comparing sets..... There are plenty of resources that allow you to do that out side of game, Im surprised they havent introduced an in-game addon yet, its still not a defense for RNG vs token but hey different strokes for different folks on that one.

We also have differing views on the "grind" in the game. Where as I see forcing me to run content over and over again ( Im at 100 vMA runs and no sharpened swords yet) and getting the same gear/worthless gear/traits, as a grind vs a token system gives me some control over what I get, now they need to be appropriately priced and the drop rates/amounts need to be fair and consistent to prevent a grind thats already in game with the pure RNG loot system. Where as you see a token system adds a grind, because you have to save up the tokens to get 1 peice of gear, vs the chance for it to drop, and the added benefits in professions. I got it and get it. I am with you RNG shouldnt be gotten rid of like OP suggested

A token system wouldn't affect the RNG system at all, tokens shouldnt drop from all content but should be implemented even if just on the pvp side. We can agree to disagree on that, and I do respect that, being a pure RNG or pure Token system is pure cancer, there should, and I would go as far to say needs to be a hybrid system in place

1. Your idea and suggestion isn't a better idea for research, mats. As one of my earlier replies to another user suggest. You're asking to change the whole RNG system that works for many so that the few things you desire, you get. In doing so, you force other players to only be able to progress by "grinding" instead of just playing in different environments.

Me personally, I've literally done all the quests in the game except for DB content and I'm a good ways through it. Why would I be O K with being forced to buy content and do stuff just so those who want tokens can be happy?

2. Comparing sets.... its of value to compare sets as thats how most of us determine which items and traits are most viable.
In your suggestion, you're changing the system to force people to only play with limited builds and decisions vs. playing as they like. Its why I suggested reworking traits as all 9 don't always make sense for every item, however their are opportunities to either adjust some or limit some by item type.

Its also VERY important to understand that all platforms do not and will not have add-ons. Any suggestion like this has to make sense. If your idea is forcing players to get on a PC or another device, that doesn't work because we shouldn't assume that makes sense when this can be done in-game today.

3. Giving you control.....over what you get.
I think this is where the larger issue is. You and others feel you deserve the right to determine what you get. The developers design is you get what drops based on their loot systems some being accumulation based while others are purely random. This game based upon what the developers have shared and presented has not taken a PvE token approach and while anything is possible, I believe such requests need to be VERY DETAILED and thoughtful. I'm trying to identify gaps in your suggestions to possibly encourage you to better detail it all.

Your ideas and suggestions when i read them, create too many variables that would adversely impact what i enjoy, as such, I'm suggesting you go into specific details and think of how not to adversely impact those who do not have interest in any token systems regardless of opinions.

@NewBlacksmurf I think you misunderstood what I am suggesting, adjust the loot table, Prosperous and Training have no purpose in end game loot tables. I am not trying to game the system to gain what I want but a pure RNG system is no go in any game, Destiny, DC Online, LOTRO WoW, all of these have some sort of pure RNG system, and their forums are riddled with complaints about a pure system.
1) I suggested keeping the loot system, for that, but it isnt a reason to stay in a PURE RNG system. And naturally as you level you will gain the items needed for DC and Research, again I AM NOT SAYING RNG IS TOTALLY BAD.
2) You would not be limited in builds, you would be able to progress at a steadier rate than sacrificing your first born child to the RNG algorithms just to hope you get the piece you want/need. RNG has its place in elements of the game, and I have even gone as far as say KEEP IT IN PVE, GIVE PVP THE TOKEN SYSTEM. You can still compare sets, that would not change at all, either in game or out of game, Deltia has a great guides for that as does the ESO wiki and plenty of other resources to ensure you can compare sets, so I am not 100% where you are going with that
3) Yes give us control a token system allows some degree of control of what we get. AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING PURE TOKEN SYSTEM. And to be frank idc if pve gets it, pvp should have it though. I am not sure how much more detailed you want, you want how many tokens should drop? How many tokens a peice of armor should cost?

Its simple, introduce tiered armor sets. Using the Current trials, they can be split into tier 1 and tier 1.5/2. You get your RNG loot table that drops your tier equivalent gear from the trial, the end of the trial you get a token for a specific gear set, in ESO just make it a light/medium/heavy accessory/weapon token drop, that can be traded within the trial, a bit of RNG within the PvE sector BUT the reward is a piece of what you want for running a trial. You then go to a vendor, undaunted could work for you immersion types, and viola you get a piece of gear based on the token dropped, smaller loot table on that means more opportunities that are mitigated by the trade-ability of the token, if I trusted developers I would even say introduce a smart loot system to prevent duplicates from happening to a player. The tier tokens are guaranteed drops at the end of the trial, every year introduce harder content and 2 more tier sets and now not only do you give the hard core progression guilds content AND purpose but something for the more laid back guilds and trial runners as well.

PvP, introduce the same tiers but little to no RNG, lower tier armor can be gained with AP as that can come in at a higher rate than tokens that allow you to buy the tier 1.5/2(what ever you want to call it). Keep the end of Campaign tier rewards and rewards of the worthy. This coupled with the release of small scale pvp (10v10v10) would allow pvpers to do the part of the game they want to do without having to grind pve almost endlessly to either get the gold to buy the armor or grind WB, Anchors and Delves endlessly.

There are no variables to determine other than token price for the armor and weapons and how to balance the teir armor sets, it doesnt impact your game play, and quite honestly I dont care about your game play if this is something the community as a whole is behind, not trying to sound mean. A hybrid loot system wouldnt affect anything at all, but gives some incentive to run trials (see how I didnt touch dungeons and delves?) you still get all of your random chance drops for farming mats and traits, and gear comparison(?) but gives the others who want progression in the game possibilities. If this isnt detailed enough for you I am not sure what else I can do for you

I would not be interested in these types of changes. It's too much like other games that I've left or that I tried for a year or 6 months and decided to stay here. I honestly like the current setup with the only changes being to limit the loot table possibilities.

You may not be interested in those changes, but others are. So I will ask of you what you asked of me, detail why a pure RNG system is better. Why you feel its less "grindy" and helps professions. Go into detail, im curious

Those answers were already provided earlier by me in this thread.
Also it's not that many others want RNG removed for tokens. Tokens vs RNG isn't a clear path and tokens are a very poor solution. You just need to ask that every possible RNG drop be as you and others agree upon and all others be removed as well as all junk.
That's actually what's better. Tokens first of all aren't even the culture of TES so by doing the tokens you'll possibly ruin your player base exponentially and not solve the actual issue.