token system!!!

Ling

just add a token system zos and remove that rng loot!!!

for example:

like now, from a daylie pledge u get 1 token with hm u get 2 tokens
for vmsa u get 5 tokens
and pvper can buy 1 token for like 100k AP

with tokens u can buy any vmsa weapon and monster sets with ur favorite trait ...
vmsa weapons for 100-150 tokens
and monster sets 50 token ...

or whatever its just a example ... but im tired of that rng and think many other people aswell!
with this sytem everyone would be happy pvp and pve player, because everyone can do whatever he/she wants and have a goal to get 1 time his/her perfect item ...

i believe its anyway useless to write this here and know many other threads still exist about that, but zos should really do something NOW!

NewBlacksmurf

Naah

Just play for Loot. Token systems are not what this game needs. Just ask for adjustment in whatever Loot tables you're working on. Understand that tokens are also based on RNG if ZOS were to add them so you'd end up with min requirements to run content x amount of times to obtain "tokens" just like the tel car system but excluded PvP from it all and it becomes something more than fun. It's 100% grinding which would really suck.

Lashiing

i propose a hardware addon, kinda looks like a bin that usb's into your computer
here you can deposit your first born child in exchange for a vMA sharpened weapon

alexkdd99

All for token system but not all things should have same token. If you want a specific item you should still have to do whatever activity that drops that item.

Shouldn't be able to run normal dungeons to get a sharpened inferno.

Panth141

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Naah

Just play for Loot. Token systems are not what this game needs. Just ask for adjustment in whatever Loot tables you're working on. Understand that tokens are also based on RNG if ZOS were to add them so you'd end up with min requirements to run content x amount of times to obtain "tokens" just like the tel car system but excluded PvP from it all and it becomes something more than fun. It's 100% grinding which would really suck.

@NewBlacksmurf

How can tokens be based on RNG if there is a specific minimum number of times that you need to do the content to save up enough tokens? Surely that's the opposite of random...

Buffler

Ling wrote: »

just add a token system zos and remove that rng loot!!!

for example:

like now, from a daylie pledge u get 1 token with hm u get 2 tokens
for vmsa u get 5 tokens
and pvper can buy 1 token for like 100k AP

with tokens u can buy any vmsa weapon and monster sets with ur favorite trait ...
vmsa weapons for 100-150 tokens
and monster sets 50 token ...

or whatever its just a example ... but im tired of that rng and think many other people aswell!
with this sytem everyone would be happy pvp and pve player, because everyone can do whatever he/she wants and have a goal to get 1 time his/her perfect item ...

i believe its anyway useless to write this here and know many other threads still exist about that, but zos should really do something NOW!

Gettng vmsa weapons by completing dungeons lol

Lucious90

Keep the RNG system, for dungeons, trials, and regular pve adjust the tables....done. For vMA, undaunted and PvP, introduce a token system for gear, rework AP for good pvp supplies, exclusive motifs, crafting stuff, intro gear, for the new 50s that are a step up from crafted gear.

The problem with this game is that its gated in RNG after grind after RNG, you have to grind lvl 50, grind CP(seems almost infinite) in order to do content you have to grind gear (looking at you proc cancer 2016/2017), especially for pvp, to buy desert rose or black rose for PvP its even hidden behind a RNG bag!!! wtf?

RNG is cancer, we should have a token system for some aspects of the game, give some guys the carrot on a stick to choose the size, type, trait of the armor they want

NewBlacksmurf

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Naah

Just play for Loot. Token systems are not what this game needs. Just ask for adjustment in whatever Loot tables you're working on. Understand that tokens are also based on RNG if ZOS were to add them so you'd end up with min requirements to run content x amount of times to obtain "tokens" just like the tel car system but excluded PvP from it all and it becomes something more than fun. It's 100% grinding which would really suck.

@NewBlacksmurf

How can tokens be based on RNG if there is a specific minimum number of times that you need to do the content to save up enough tokens? Surely that's the opposite of random...

@Panth141

Because the OP request to add a token system isn't a request to give 100% return on effort. Its a request to give a "token" that allows the player to buy certain goods in exchange for tokens.

As such, the OP should extend their request to be very specific, for example.....

OP should say something like.
-Please provide "X" item for every completion of VMSA.
Upon receiving "X" item these should offer us the chance to buy (list all specific loot with value based upon "X" and time-frame of listings with or without rotations)

-Please provide "Y" item for every kill of bosses in veteran dungeons.
Upon receiving "Y" item these should offer us the chance to buy (list all specific loot with value based upon "Y" and time-frame of listings with or without rotations)

The way I read the OP is:
-Please replace the RNG system with a mandatory grind for each encounter that no longer offers random loot. Personally, that is worse in my opinion. The request becomes a requirement to kill something or complete something 20, 50, 100, 200, 300 times in order to buy one item vs. playing content and getting drops 100% of the time.

What they are complaining about, they are seeming to request more of.....doesn't make sense so what happens is we all loose the functionality and options that I can use and test out which traits are the best or which weapons/armor types are the best in a guaranteed drop system today where the weapon or armor type is random but loot is always 100%.

I believe if not stated or if changing RNG to 0% loot drops with mandatory repeats of contents, there would be a huge outrage. Those complaining about RNG, only do so until they find the desired item and then they stop complaining. Today what we have is a lesser evil because token don't offer research, gold, trade.....its just an accumulation which then will be a request for more inventory slots.

Panth141

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Naah

Just play for Loot. Token systems are not what this game needs. Just ask for adjustment in whatever Loot tables you're working on. Understand that tokens are also based on RNG if ZOS were to add them so you'd end up with min requirements to run content x amount of times to obtain "tokens" just like the tel car system but excluded PvP from it all and it becomes something more than fun. It's 100% grinding which would really suck.

@NewBlacksmurf

How can tokens be based on RNG if there is a specific minimum number of times that you need to do the content to save up enough tokens? Surely that's the opposite of random...

@Panth141

Because the OP request to add a token system isn't a request to give 100% return on effort. Its a request to give a "token" that allows the player to buy certain goods in exchange for tokens.

As such, the OP should extend their request to be very specific, for example.....

OP should say something like.
-Please provide "X" item for every completion of VMSA.
Upon receiving "X" item these should offer us the chance to buy (list all specific loot with value based upon "X" and time-frame of listings with or without rotations)

-Please provide "Y" item for every kill of bosses in veteran dungeons.
Upon receiving "Y" item these should offer us the chance to buy (list all specific loot with value based upon "Y" and time-frame of listings with or without rotations)

The way I read the OP is:
-Please replace the RNG system with a mandatory grind for each encounter that no longer offers random loot. Personally, that is worse in my opinion. The request becomes a requirement to kill something or complete something 20, 50, 100, 200, 300 times in order to buy one item vs. playing content and getting drops 100% of the time.

What they are complaining about, they are seeming to request more of.....doesn't make sense so what happens is we all loose the functionality and options that I can use and test out which traits are the best or which weapons/armor types are the best in a guaranteed drop system today where the weapon or armor type is random but loot is always 100%.

I believe if not stated or if changing RNG to 0% loot drops with mandatory repeats of contents, there would be a huge outrage. Those complaining about RNG, only do so until they find the desired item and then they stop complaining. Today what we have is a lesser evil because token don't offer research, gold, trade.....its just an accumulation which then will be a request for more inventory slots.

@NewBlacksmurf

Here's what the OP asked for:

• A guaranteed, specific number of tokens for completing a certain bit of content - vMA, pledge etc.
• The ability to buy specific gear with your accumulated tokens

I didn't see the OP mention anything about removing the availability of random loot, either as content reward or as the random drops from killing enemies - my view on it would be that this random stuff remains, alongside the opportunity to complete the content a certain number of times to amass enough tokens to buy exactly what you want.

Now, I don't agree with the idea that different content should drop the same tokens - i.e. Pledges should drop 'Pledge Tokens' for monster shoulders and vMA should drop 'Maelstrom Tokens' for maelstrom weapons - and you should have the choice of turning in one of these tokens to receive a random drop (as it is currently) or save up a specific number of them to choose your reward.

So nothing random is being introduced - for those who don't want to save up tokens and would prefer to continue getting random rewards - the current system remains. For those who don't want to rely on RNG, they can rest assured in the knowledge that after doing X runs of the content, they are guaranteed to be able obtain the item that they are seeking.

Lucious90

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Naah

Just play for Loot. Token systems are not what this game needs. Just ask for adjustment in whatever Loot tables you're working on. Understand that tokens are also based on RNG if ZOS were to add them so you'd end up with min requirements to run content x amount of times to obtain "tokens" just like the tel car system but excluded PvP from it all and it becomes something more than fun. It's 100% grinding which would really suck.

@NewBlacksmurf

How can tokens be based on RNG if there is a specific minimum number of times that you need to do the content to save up enough tokens? Surely that's the opposite of random...

@Panth141

Because the OP request to add a token system isn't a request to give 100% return on effort. Its a request to give a "token" that allows the player to buy certain goods in exchange for tokens.

As such, the OP should extend their request to be very specific, for example.....

OP should say something like.
-Please provide "X" item for every completion of VMSA.
Upon receiving "X" item these should offer us the chance to buy (list all specific loot with value based upon "X" and time-frame of listings with or without rotations)

-Please provide "Y" item for every kill of bosses in veteran dungeons.
Upon receiving "Y" item these should offer us the chance to buy (list all specific loot with value based upon "Y" and time-frame of listings with or without rotations)

The way I read the OP is:
-Please replace the RNG system with a mandatory grind for each encounter that no longer offers random loot. Personally, that is worse in my opinion. The request becomes a requirement to kill something or complete something 20, 50, 100, 200, 300 times in order to buy one item vs. playing content and getting drops 100% of the time.

What they are complaining about, they are seeming to request more of.....doesn't make sense so what happens is we all loose the functionality and options that I can use and test out which traits are the best or which weapons/armor types are the best in a guaranteed drop system today where the weapon or armor type is random but loot is always 100%.

I believe if not stated or if changing RNG to 0% loot drops with mandatory repeats of contents, there would be a huge outrage. Those complaining about RNG, only do so until they find the desired item and then they stop complaining. Today what we have is a lesser evil because token don't offer research, gold, trade.....its just an accumulation which then will be a request for more inventory slots.

I disagree with that notion, it doesnt need to be a 100% overhaul, if you have every played a game thats pure RNG, its terrible. Wows Legion is a good example of what RNG can do to a game. I for one hate the fact that I have no idea what I am getting, such as the farm for Spriggans, that took me 3 weeks and I ended up spending a *** ton of gold because this RNG crap is stupid, especially for PvP. Tokens doesnt mean you kill 1,000,000 boars to get the gear you need/want. It means that I can work and progress through harder content content, multiple times and gain something meaningful out of it. I agree they should NOT get rid of the entire RNG system but 100% gearing RNG is not fun for anyone. Whats better, run something 50 times to get 50 pieces of useless gear? or Run something 50 times, and get that 1-2 peices of gear that you KNOW is an upgrade?

If we really want to discuss it, they already have a token>gear system set up in the form of TV stones in IC. but guess what.... thats hidden behind RNG. So you know that you're getting a Black Rose, or Desert Rose (AP) set.... but not the head or leg or weapon, or trait..... Im sorry but if I am spending 1000+ TV stones or 50k AP I want to know what Im getting.

RNG is a lazy way to create replayable content for your subs

NewBlacksmurf

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Naah

Just play for Loot. Token systems are not what this game needs. Just ask for adjustment in whatever Loot tables you're working on. Understand that tokens are also based on RNG if ZOS were to add them so you'd end up with min requirements to run content x amount of times to obtain "tokens" just like the tel car system but excluded PvP from it all and it becomes something more than fun. It's 100% grinding which would really suck.

@NewBlacksmurf

How can tokens be based on RNG if there is a specific minimum number of times that you need to do the content to save up enough tokens? Surely that's the opposite of random...

@Panth141

Because the OP request to add a token system isn't a request to give 100% return on effort. Its a request to give a "token" that allows the player to buy certain goods in exchange for tokens.

As such, the OP should extend their request to be very specific, for example.....

OP should say something like.
-Please provide "X" item for every completion of VMSA.
Upon receiving "X" item these should offer us the chance to buy (list all specific loot with value based upon "X" and time-frame of listings with or without rotations)

-Please provide "Y" item for every kill of bosses in veteran dungeons.
Upon receiving "Y" item these should offer us the chance to buy (list all specific loot with value based upon "Y" and time-frame of listings with or without rotations)

The way I read the OP is:
-Please replace the RNG system with a mandatory grind for each encounter that no longer offers random loot. Personally, that is worse in my opinion. The request becomes a requirement to kill something or complete something 20, 50, 100, 200, 300 times in order to buy one item vs. playing content and getting drops 100% of the time.

What they are complaining about, they are seeming to request more of.....doesn't make sense so what happens is we all loose the functionality and options that I can use and test out which traits are the best or which weapons/armor types are the best in a guaranteed drop system today where the weapon or armor type is random but loot is always 100%.

I believe if not stated or if changing RNG to 0% loot drops with mandatory repeats of contents, there would be a huge outrage. Those complaining about RNG, only do so until they find the desired item and then they stop complaining. Today what we have is a lesser evil because token don't offer research, gold, trade.....its just an accumulation which then will be a request for more inventory slots.

@NewBlacksmurf

Here's what the OP asked for:

• A guaranteed, specific number of tokens for completing a certain bit of content - vMA, pledge etc.
• The ability to buy specific gear with your accumulated tokens

I didn't see the OP mention anything about removing the availability of random loot, either as content reward or as the random drops from killing enemies - my view on it would be that this random stuff remains, alongside the opportunity to complete the content a certain number of times to amass enough tokens to buy exactly what you want.

Now, I don't agree with the idea that different content should drop the same tokens - i.e. Pledges should drop 'Pledge Tokens' for monster shoulders and vMA should drop 'Maelstrom Tokens' for maelstrom weapons - and you should have the choice of turning in one of these tokens to receive a random drop (as it is currently) or save up a specific number of them to choose your reward.

So nothing random is being introduced - for those who don't want to save up tokens and would prefer to continue getting random rewards - the current system remains. For those who don't want to rely on RNG, they can rest assured in the knowledge that after doing X runs of the content, they are guaranteed to be able obtain the item that they are seeking.

@Panth141

the OP specifically says

Ling wrote: »

just add a token system zos and remove that rng loot!!!

..........................

or whatever its just a example ... but im tired of that rng and think many other people aswell!
.................

They are point blank saying to remove the RNG system....by default that removes.....The RNG system.
As you write, i believe you're interpreting something not written. I'd read your conclusion is that the OP is asking to "ADD a token with 100% drop chance to the existing RNG system"

My response is above but heck NO to this idea and I'd rather read a detailed suggestion rather than a broad stroke based upon assumptions as most don't prefer either. We can argue both ways as the amounts of threads and polls vs actual online customers where we can assume less than 5% use the forums.....there aren't even 60k players asking for RNG to be removed. There are a lot of players who specifically desire the possibilities within each given RNG to have non-desired drops removed that by default increases the chance for desired loot to drop.

kongkim

No thx. Sounds really boring.
I need my OMG i got it Fix

NewBlacksmurf

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Naah

Just play for Loot. Token systems are not what this game needs. Just ask for adjustment in whatever Loot tables you're working on. Understand that tokens are also based on RNG if ZOS were to add them so you'd end up with min requirements to run content x amount of times to obtain "tokens" just like the tel car system but excluded PvP from it all and it becomes something more than fun. It's 100% grinding which would really suck.

@NewBlacksmurf

How can tokens be based on RNG if there is a specific minimum number of times that you need to do the content to save up enough tokens? Surely that's the opposite of random...

@Panth141

Because the OP request to add a token system isn't a request to give 100% return on effort. Its a request to give a "token" that allows the player to buy certain goods in exchange for tokens.

As such, the OP should extend their request to be very specific, for example.....

OP should say something like.
-Please provide "X" item for every completion of VMSA.
Upon receiving "X" item these should offer us the chance to buy (list all specific loot with value based upon "X" and time-frame of listings with or without rotations)

-Please provide "Y" item for every kill of bosses in veteran dungeons.
Upon receiving "Y" item these should offer us the chance to buy (list all specific loot with value based upon "Y" and time-frame of listings with or without rotations)

The way I read the OP is:
-Please replace the RNG system with a mandatory grind for each encounter that no longer offers random loot. Personally, that is worse in my opinion. The request becomes a requirement to kill something or complete something 20, 50, 100, 200, 300 times in order to buy one item vs. playing content and getting drops 100% of the time.

What they are complaining about, they are seeming to request more of.....doesn't make sense so what happens is we all loose the functionality and options that I can use and test out which traits are the best or which weapons/armor types are the best in a guaranteed drop system today where the weapon or armor type is random but loot is always 100%.

I believe if not stated or if changing RNG to 0% loot drops with mandatory repeats of contents, there would be a huge outrage. Those complaining about RNG, only do so until they find the desired item and then they stop complaining. Today what we have is a lesser evil because token don't offer research, gold, trade.....its just an accumulation which then will be a request for more inventory slots.

I disagree with that notion, it doesnt need to be a 100% overhaul, if you have every played a game thats pure RNG, its terrible. Wows Legion is a good example of what RNG can do to a game. I for one hate the fact that I have no idea what I am getting, such as the farm for Spriggans, that took me 3 weeks and I ended up spending a *** ton of gold because this RNG crap is stupid, especially for PvP. Tokens doesnt mean you kill 1,000,000 boars to get the gear you need/want. It means that I can work and progress through harder content content, multiple times and gain something meaningful out of it. I agree they should NOT get rid of the entire RNG system but 100% gearing RNG is not fun for anyone. Whats better, run something 50 times to get 50 pieces of useless gear? or Run something 50 times, and get that 1-2 peices of gear that you KNOW is an upgrade?

If we really want to discuss it, they already have a token>gear system set up in the form of TV stones in IC. but guess what.... thats hidden behind RNG. So you know that you're getting a Black Rose, or Desert Rose (AP) set.... but not the head or leg or weapon, or trait..... Im sorry but if I am spending 1000+ TV stones or 50k AP I want to know what Im getting.

RNG is a lazy way to create replayable content for your subs

You're entitled to your point of view. I just disagree with everything in your reply 100%. I believe you may play the game different than myself as there are traits that Ii "need" for research so removing those from loot tables hurts me and other crafters in some ways as we like decon-ing the trash for mats or using trash for research as well as just testing out stuff.


What I do agree with in context to your reply is that items within the loot tables need to be adjusted. Adjusted as in delete the possibilities of specific weapon and armor traits. Delete the possibilities of armor types with specific traits. Delete the possibilities of set weapon and armor in respect to specific traits and weapons or armors altogether.

This was done to some extent recently but ZOS decided to keep some other possibilities in the able even though those results are less or not desired at all.

Thus doing so will increase the loot chances overall as there are less items that can drop.
Basically its removing 1000's of sides off the dice.


A better idea all around is changing the effects of all less desired traits. Changing the effects of all weapons and armor so that every items in the loot tables is valuable for a build of some type.

Set items in my opinion and traits as we have today shouldn't be spread across all items.

Some weapons should only have 3 traits
Some armor should only have 4 traits

thats where this all need to go in my opinion.....

TwistedThoughtz

Each zone has a specific token, for over world drops.
Each dungeon has a token for dungeon specific drops.

How hard would that be to implement? I don't feel anyone should have to run something over 100x to not get what they're looking for.

Lucious90

You're entitled to your point of view. I just disagree with everything in your reply 100%. I believe you may play the game different than myself as there are traits that Ii "need" for research so removing those from loot tables hurts me and other crafters in some ways as we like decon-ing the trash for mats or using trash for research as well as just testing out stuff.


What I do agree with in context to your reply is that items within the loot tables need to be adjusted. Adjusted as in delete the possibilities of specific weapon and armor traits. Delete the possibilities of armor types with specific traits. Delete the possibilities of set weapon and armor in respect to specific traits and weapons or armors altogether.

This was done to some extent recently but ZOS decided to keep some other possibilities in the able even though those results are less or not desired at all.

Thus doing so will increase the loot chances overall as there are less items that can drop.
Basically its removing 1000's of sides off the dice.[/quote]

Playing a game with different intentions has nothing to do with a looting system and is a lazy rebuttal , they should keep the RNG system in place for crafters gold blah blah. I disagree with the OP in the removal of RNG gearing as we both are in accordance there.

But a token system gives something to work towards instead of gating the rest of your game behind RNG, there is no git gud scrub, play more, if you dont get a roll you dont get a roll, ran the area for spriggan, and for almost a week I got the same rings and armor pieces with prosperous and training, from the same set..... All of that just for pvp, and to be quite frank, pve can keep it, give Cyrodil and IC a good token system, for crafting, motifs and gear (No bags with additional RNG). What wide purpose does a RNG gearing system provide? Crafting? You'd get that regardless, that "I got an upgrade!" moment? You can get the same satisfaction from a token system. Replayability? Tokens would do nothing to the replayability of content, especially if you play the game differently than I.

kevlarto_ESO

I think a barter system is so much better than an rng, with a token system you have a goal, I am more motivated to do the content, because I know if I save up enough tokens I can get something I want or may even need, with out training or prosperous, with the way things are now and my bad luck after playing hard just to get crap, my motivation goes right down the pooper, and the fun I had was soon sucked away by the crap I got for a reward, I do not expect to get something every run but after 10 or so runs and not getting anything of use, I am kind of done with it and move on. I get off that treadmill once it seems fruitless.

Lucious90

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

I think a barter system is so much better than an rng, with a token system you have a goal, I am more motivated to do the content, because I know if I save up enough tokens I can get something I want or may even need, with out training or prosperous, with the way things are now and my bad luck after playing hard just to get crap, my motivation goes right down the pooper, and the fun I had was soon sucked away by the crap I got for a reward, I do not expect to get something every run but after 10 or so runs and not getting anything of use, I am kind of done with it and move on. I get off that treadmill once it seems fruitless.

THe most frustrating thing, is getting a monster piece, get excitied and realize that its training or prosperous..... Ive DCd more than I should of =/

NewBlacksmurf

Lucious90 wrote: »

Playing a game with different intentions has nothing to do with a looting system and is a lazy rebuttal , they should keep the RNG system in place for crafters gold blah blah. I disagree with the OP in the removal of RNG gearing as we both are in accordance there.

But a token system gives something to work towards instead of gating the rest of your game behind RNG, there is no git gud scrub, play more, if you dont get a roll you dont get a roll, ran the area for spriggan, and for almost a week I got the same rings and armor pieces with prosperous and training, from the same set..... All of that just for pvp, and to be quite frank, pve can keep it, give Cyrodil and IC a good token system, for crafting, motifs and gear (No bags with additional RNG). What wide purpose does a RNG gearing system provide? Crafting? You'd get that regardless, that "I got an upgrade!" moment? You can get the same satisfaction from a token system. Replayability? Tokens would do nothing to the replayability of content, especially if you play the game differently than I.

I think what occurring is you and I are looking for similar items but our ideas on how better to achieve this differs.

Lucious90

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

Playing a game with different intentions has nothing to do with a looting system and is a lazy rebuttal , they should keep the RNG system in place for crafters gold blah blah. I disagree with the OP in the removal of RNG gearing as we both are in accordance there.

But a token system gives something to work towards instead of gating the rest of your game behind RNG, there is no git gud scrub, play more, if you dont get a roll you dont get a roll, ran the area for spriggan, and for almost a week I got the same rings and armor pieces with prosperous and training, from the same set..... All of that just for pvp, and to be quite frank, pve can keep it, give Cyrodil and IC a good token system, for crafting, motifs and gear (No bags with additional RNG). What wide purpose does a RNG gearing system provide? Crafting? You'd get that regardless, that "I got an upgrade!" moment? You can get the same satisfaction from a token system. Replayability? Tokens would do nothing to the replayability of content, especially if you play the game differently than I.

I think what occurring is you and I are looking for similar items but our ideas on how better to achieve this differs.

Could be, I just hate seeing this game ruining its potential in my eyes, and putting a random system to keep people playing

NewBlacksmurf

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

Playing a game with different intentions has nothing to do with a looting system and is a lazy rebuttal , they should keep the RNG system in place for crafters gold blah blah. I disagree with the OP in the removal of RNG gearing as we both are in accordance there.

But a token system gives something to work towards instead of gating the rest of your game behind RNG, there is no git gud scrub, play more, if you dont get a roll you dont get a roll, ran the area for spriggan, and for almost a week I got the same rings and armor pieces with prosperous and training, from the same set..... All of that just for pvp, and to be quite frank, pve can keep it, give Cyrodil and IC a good token system, for crafting, motifs and gear (No bags with additional RNG). What wide purpose does a RNG gearing system provide? Crafting? You'd get that regardless, that "I got an upgrade!" moment? You can get the same satisfaction from a token system. Replayability? Tokens would do nothing to the replayability of content, especially if you play the game differently than I.

I think what occurring is you and I are looking for similar items but our ideas on how better to achieve this differs.

Could be, I just hate seeing this game ruining its potential in my eyes, and putting a random system to keep people playing

Its not lazy, its a design that you don't like or that you disagree with only because of your experiences. I can't agree that the games potential is being ruined...

In response to your question about what RNG does provide.
-research traits
-mats
-sets to compare the 2,3,4 or 5 set bonus regardless of trait and gear type


I've played a few games with tokens systems and .....one reason I'm here is because I personally feel a token system is poor and contributes to creating grinds and the absence of content frequency due to waiting on people to grind.

Lucious90

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

Playing a game with different intentions has nothing to do with a looting system and is a lazy rebuttal , they should keep the RNG system in place for crafters gold blah blah. I disagree with the OP in the removal of RNG gearing as we both are in accordance there.

But a token system gives something to work towards instead of gating the rest of your game behind RNG, there is no git gud scrub, play more, if you dont get a roll you dont get a roll, ran the area for spriggan, and for almost a week I got the same rings and armor pieces with prosperous and training, from the same set..... All of that just for pvp, and to be quite frank, pve can keep it, give Cyrodil and IC a good token system, for crafting, motifs and gear (No bags with additional RNG). What wide purpose does a RNG gearing system provide? Crafting? You'd get that regardless, that "I got an upgrade!" moment? You can get the same satisfaction from a token system. Replayability? Tokens would do nothing to the replayability of content, especially if you play the game differently than I.

I think what occurring is you and I are looking for similar items but our ideas on how better to achieve this differs.

Could be, I just hate seeing this game ruining its potential in my eyes, and putting a random system to keep people playing

Its not lazy, its a design that you don't like or that you disagree with only because of your experiences. I can't agree that the games potential is being ruined...

In response to your question about what RNG does provide.
-research traits
-mats
-sets to compare the 2,3,4 or 5 set bonus regardless of trait and gear type


I've played a few games with tokens systems and .....one reason I'm here is because I personally feel a token system is poor and contributes to creating grinds and the absence of content frequency due to waiting on people to grind.

Ive answered the reseach traits mats, etc those come just by questing, and trading out gear, what is interesting is the comparing sets..... There are plenty of resources that allow you to do that out side of game, Im surprised they havent introduced an in-game addon yet, its still not a defense for RNG vs token but hey different strokes for different folks on that one.

Pure RNG is a lazy design, that maskes shallow content, having some RNG within the game system, allows me to experience the content, if its deep enough I can experience it again, if not, I wont,but hiding gear under a loot table spread out across the world is a lazy attempt to get people to experience the world, now this isnt a knock at OT I think its the best thing they've done and made great strides since, but still can improve

We also have differing views on the "grind" in the game. Where as I see forcing me to run content over and over again ( Im at 100 vMA runs and no sharpened swords yet) and getting the same gear/worthless gear/traits, as a grind vs a token system gives me some control over what I get, now they need to be appropriately priced and the drop rates/amounts need to be fair and consistent to prevent a grind thats already in game with the pure RNG loot system. Where as you see a token system adds a grind, because you have to save up the tokens to get 1 peice of gear, vs the chance for it to drop, and the added benefits in professions. I got it and get it. I am with you RNG shouldnt be gotten rid of like OP suggested

A token system wouldn't affect the RNG system at all, tokens shouldnt drop from all content but should be implemented even if just on the pvp side. We can agree to disagree on that, and I do respect that, being a pure RNG or pure Token system is pure cancer, there should, and I would go as far to say needs to be a hybrid system in place

NewBlacksmurf

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

Playing a game with different intentions has nothing to do with a looting system and is a lazy rebuttal , they should keep the RNG system in place for crafters gold blah blah. I disagree with the OP in the removal of RNG gearing as we both are in accordance there.

But a token system gives something to work towards instead of gating the rest of your game behind RNG, there is no git gud scrub, play more, if you dont get a roll you dont get a roll, ran the area for spriggan, and for almost a week I got the same rings and armor pieces with prosperous and training, from the same set..... All of that just for pvp, and to be quite frank, pve can keep it, give Cyrodil and IC a good token system, for crafting, motifs and gear (No bags with additional RNG). What wide purpose does a RNG gearing system provide? Crafting? You'd get that regardless, that "I got an upgrade!" moment? You can get the same satisfaction from a token system. Replayability? Tokens would do nothing to the replayability of content, especially if you play the game differently than I.

I think what occurring is you and I are looking for similar items but our ideas on how better to achieve this differs.

Could be, I just hate seeing this game ruining its potential in my eyes, and putting a random system to keep people playing

Its not lazy, its a design that you don't like or that you disagree with only because of your experiences. I can't agree that the games potential is being ruined...

In response to your question about what RNG does provide.
-research traits
-mats
-sets to compare the 2,3,4 or 5 set bonus regardless of trait and gear type


I've played a few games with tokens systems and .....one reason I'm here is because I personally feel a token system is poor and contributes to creating grinds and the absence of content frequency due to waiting on people to grind.

Ive answered the reseach traits mats, etc those come just by questing, and trading out gear, what is interesting is the comparing sets..... There are plenty of resources that allow you to do that out side of game, Im surprised they havent introduced an in-game addon yet, its still not a defense for RNG vs token but hey different strokes for different folks on that one.

We also have differing views on the "grind" in the game. Where as I see forcing me to run content over and over again ( Im at 100 vMA runs and no sharpened swords yet) and getting the same gear/worthless gear/traits, as a grind vs a token system gives me some control over what I get, now they need to be appropriately priced and the drop rates/amounts need to be fair and consistent to prevent a grind thats already in game with the pure RNG loot system. Where as you see a token system adds a grind, because you have to save up the tokens to get 1 peice of gear, vs the chance for it to drop, and the added benefits in professions. I got it and get it. I am with you RNG shouldnt be gotten rid of like OP suggested

A token system wouldn't affect the RNG system at all, tokens shouldnt drop from all content but should be implemented even if just on the pvp side. We can agree to disagree on that, and I do respect that, being a pure RNG or pure Token system is pure cancer, there should, and I would go as far to say needs to be a hybrid system in place

1. Your idea and suggestion isn't a better idea for research, mats. As one of my earlier replies to another user suggest. You're asking to change the whole RNG system that works for many so that the few things you desire, you get. In doing so, you force other players to only be able to progress by "grinding" instead of just playing in different environments.

Me personally, I've literally done all the quests in the game except for DB content and I'm a good ways through it. Why would I be O K with being forced to buy content and do stuff just so those who want tokens can be happy?

2. Comparing sets.... its of value to compare sets as thats how most of us determine which items and traits are most viable.
In your suggestion, you're changing the system to force people to only play with limited builds and decisions vs. playing as they like. Its why I suggested reworking traits as all 9 don't always make sense for every item, however their are opportunities to either adjust some or limit some by item type.

Its also VERY important to understand that all platforms do not and will not have add-ons. Any suggestion like this has to make sense. If your idea is forcing players to get on a PC or another device, that doesn't work because we shouldn't assume that makes sense when this can be done in-game today.

3. Giving you control.....over what you get.
I think this is where the larger issue is. You and others feel you deserve the right to determine what you get. The developers design is you get what drops based on their loot systems some being accumulation based while others are purely random. This game based upon what the developers have shared and presented has not taken a PvE token approach and while anything is possible, I believe such requests need to be VERY DETAILED and thoughtful. I'm trying to identify gaps in your suggestions to possibly encourage you to better detail it all.

Your ideas and suggestions when i read them, create too many variables that would adversely impact what i enjoy, as such, I'm suggesting you go into specific details and think of how not to adversely impact those who do not have interest in any token systems regardless of opinions.

idk

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Naah

Just play for Loot. Token systems are not what this game needs. Just ask for adjustment in whatever Loot tables you're working on. Understand that tokens are also based on RNG if ZOS were to add them so you'd end up with min requirements to run content x amount of times to obtain "tokens" just like the tel car system but excluded PvP from it all and it becomes something more than fun. It's 100% grinding which would really suck.

@NewBlacksmurf

How can tokens be based on RNG if there is a specific minimum number of times that you need to do the content to save up enough tokens? Surely that's the opposite of random...

@Panth141

Token systems can very easily be based off RNG.

100 possible outcomes with a weapon drop would bring about having to clear the content 100 times before getting enough tokens to get the weapon you want. They could even make it higher for grins and giggles.

It's logical. @NewBlacksmurf understands.

NewBlacksmurf

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Naah

Just play for Loot. Token systems are not what this game needs. Just ask for adjustment in whatever Loot tables you're working on. Understand that tokens are also based on RNG if ZOS were to add them so you'd end up with min requirements to run content x amount of times to obtain "tokens" just like the tel var system but excluded PvP from it all and it becomes something more than fun. It's 100% grinding which would really suck.

@NewBlacksmurf

How can tokens be based on RNG if there is a specific minimum number of times that you need to do the content to save up enough tokens? Surely that's the opposite of random...

@Panth141

Token systems can very easily be based off RNG.

100 possible outcomes with a weapon drop would bring about having to clear the content 100 times before getting enough tokens to get the weapon you want. They could even make it higher for grins and giggles.

It's logical. @NewBlacksmurf understands.

@Panth141
These types of ideas just really need a lot of detail and thorough answers for what/if's.
Here is an example of very well thought out ideas which after discussions and feedback were adjusted. Not that this is the best, but its what I'm trying to convey - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/171334/gidoricks-concept-repository

Panth141

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Naah

Just play for Loot. Token systems are not what this game needs. Just ask for adjustment in whatever Loot tables you're working on. Understand that tokens are also based on RNG if ZOS were to add them so you'd end up with min requirements to run content x amount of times to obtain "tokens" just like the tel car system but excluded PvP from it all and it becomes something more than fun. It's 100% grinding which would really suck.

How can tokens be based on RNG if there is a specific minimum number of times that you need to do the content to save up enough tokens? Surely that's the opposite of random...

Token systems can very easily be based off RNG.

100 possible outcomes with a weapon drop would bring about having to clear the content 100 times before getting enough tokens to get the weapon you want. They could even make it higher for grins and giggles.

It's logical. @NewBlacksmurf understands.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

I agree that ZoS could make the number of required tokens annoyingly high, but if it were set up so that you got 1 token per complete and could trade in 100 tokens (say) for your desired loot... how is that based on RNG?

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Naah

Just play for Loot. Token systems are not what this game needs. Just ask for adjustment in whatever Loot tables you're working on. Understand that tokens are also based on RNG if ZOS were to add them so you'd end up with min requirements to run content x amount of times to obtain "tokens" just like the tel var system but excluded PvP from it all and it becomes something more than fun. It's 100% grinding which would really suck.

How can tokens be based on RNG if there is a specific minimum number of times that you need to do the content to save up enough tokens? Surely that's the opposite of random...

@Panth141

Token systems can very easily be based off RNG.

100 possible outcomes with a weapon drop would bring about having to clear the content 100 times before getting enough tokens to get the weapon you want. They could even make it higher for grins and giggles.

It's logical. @NewBlacksmurf understands.

These types of ideas just really need a lot of detail and thorough answers for what/if's.
Here is an example of very well thought out ideas which after discussions and feedback were adjusted. Not that this is the best, but its what I'm trying to convey - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/171334/gidoricks-concept-repository

@NewBlacksmurf

I think that the difference of opinion here is somewhat due to the fact that we're both talking about different things!

I'm saying that the addition of a token-based system for those who prefer not to use RNG, alongside RNG for those that prefer it, would be a good thing. I'm not saying that that's the full idea; nor that the OPs version of it is a good one; nor am I offering a full, point-by-point walkthrough of how that system should work in every situation - just saying that I think it would be a good system to implement. Obviously I understand that it needs to be carefully thought out and planned - I'm just giving my +1 to the idea of ZoS of developing such a system.

idk

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Naah

Just play for Loot. Token systems are not what this game needs. Just ask for adjustment in whatever Loot tables you're working on. Understand that tokens are also based on RNG if ZOS were to add them so you'd end up with min requirements to run content x amount of times to obtain "tokens" just like the tel var system but excluded PvP from it all and it becomes something more than fun. It's 100% grinding which would really suck.

@NewBlacksmurf

How can tokens be based on RNG if there is a specific minimum number of times that you need to do the content to save up enough tokens? Surely that's the opposite of random...

@Panth141

Token systems can very easily be based off RNG.

100 possible outcomes with a weapon drop would bring about having to clear the content 100 times before getting enough tokens to get the weapon you want. They could even make it higher for grins and giggles.

It's logical. @NewBlacksmurf understands.

@Panth141
These types of ideas just really need a lot of detail and thorough answers for what/if's.
Here is an example of very well thought out ideas which after discussions and feedback were adjusted. Not that this is the best, but its what I'm trying to convey - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/171334/gidoricks-concept-repository

That link goes to a thread that claims to be a repository of many concepts for changes to the game. This covers one narrow area. To suggest we should go to such depths for this narrow subject is absurd. No other way to put it.

Either a very poor example was used to illustrate your thoughts or something completely different.

Again @NewBlacksmurf put tokens into perspective. Very well.

Panth141

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Naah

Just play for Loot. Token systems are not what this game needs. Just ask for adjustment in whatever Loot tables you're working on. Understand that tokens are also based on RNG if ZOS were to add them so you'd end up with min requirements to run content x amount of times to obtain "tokens" just like the tel var system but excluded PvP from it all and it becomes something more than fun. It's 100% grinding which would really suck.

How can tokens be based on RNG if there is a specific minimum number of times that you need to do the content to save up enough tokens? Surely that's the opposite of random...

Token systems can very easily be based off RNG.

100 possible outcomes with a weapon drop would bring about having to clear the content 100 times before getting enough tokens to get the weapon you want. They could even make it higher for grins and giggles.

It's logical. understands.

These types of ideas just really need a lot of detail and thorough answers for what/if's.
Here is an example of very well thought out ideas which after discussions and feedback were adjusted. Not that this is the best, but its what I'm trying to convey - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/171334/gidoricks-concept-repository

That link goes to a thread that claims to be a repository of many concepts for changes to the game. This covers one narrow area. To suggest we should go to such depths for this narrow subject is absurd. No other way to put it.

Either a very poor example was used to illustrate your thoughts or something completely different.

Again [snip] put tokens into perspective. Very well.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO [Does this actually summon you, btw?]

I'm well aware of Gidorick's Repository and it's a shame he doesn't come around here anymore.

Again - I'm not arguing that the OP's suggested system is the perfect model and should be implemented into the game as he has stated - I'm just saying that I believe a (well-refined) token system would be beneficial to the game. As I said above, I fear that the issue here is because we're arguing different points, so let me make a clearer representation of what I'm arguing for:

vMA Token System

Token Acquisition

When you complete vMA you go to the final chest - as usual - but instead of dropping weapon(s) it drops a single 'Maelstrom Token'. Every time you complete vMA you get a single token - nothing is random here - that is guaranteed.

Reward Boxes

Add 7 boxes to the arena entrance - call them something cool, like:

• The Guardian's Reward - contains vMA S&B - all traits
• The Berserker's Reward - contains vMA 2h - all traits
• The Assassin's Reward - contains vMA DW - all traits
• The Archer's Reward - contains vMA Bow - all traits
• The Elemental Mage's Reward - contains vMA Destro - all Traits
• The Healer's Reward - contains vMA Resto - all traits
• The Champion's Chance - (see below)

Spending Tokens

• Using 'The Champion's Chance' container would provide one, randomly generated, weapon as a reward, at the price of a single token. This is essentially the same as the current system.
• The other boxes (above) would contain all vMA weapons in all traits. A player could choose to 'save up' their tokens and spend them instead at one of these boxes to obtain a specific weapon.
• I'm not going to put a hard number on how many tokens it should take, but if you think of it like this:
  
  I think (*personal opinion*) it is legitimate for a player to have the item that they want after 20-30 completions of content. So in theory the price could be 20-30 tokens. People who have slaved through 100+ vMA runs to get what they want may call this a 'carebear' or 'entitled' thought - I've run vMA over 100 times and I'm still yet to get a sharpened axe. I feel that doing vMA 20-30 times is enough for me to deserve the weapon I want. Again - I'm not going to say 'it should definitely be 30 tokens' - this is something for people to debate.

Note on RNG

Here, the only thing that is random is 'The Champion's Chance' container - which behaves exactly as does the current reward system. The added token system would not be random at all - you're guaranteed one token, and for a fixed number of tokens [TBD], you can purchase the exact weapon that you want. I understand the fear that ZoS could make this fixed number obscenely high - but it could also (hopefully!) be priced reasonably.

Tryxus

At this point, I'd take anything as long as there's a clear end in sight (meaning that I do get the weapon I'm playing for in the end).

kongkim

Gold will become even worse less than now. As you always get the item you like with a token system. So no need to buy items on the market. Also if you like to get some items that are not meta they will never be on the market anymore as no one but them for their tokens.

idk

@Panth141

It doesn't summon me as the link is incomplete.

Unfortunately, while you thoughts are well written, it's clearly designed to make getting the weapon you want many, many times easier and it's very doubtful it will be that way. It shoudnt.

To be guaranteed to get a specific type of weapon but random trait it should require about the same number of tokens as traits available. That already makes the RNG significantly more favorable that the current design. Maybe it should cost more tokens that available traits.

Guaranteed specific weapon and trait would be enough tokens to equal possible outcomes as it currently is, at near.

However, many just think tokens makes it significantly easier and that is not necessarily the case.

Ling

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The way I read the OP is:
-Please replace the RNG system with a mandatory grind for each encounter that no longer offers random loot. Personally, that is worse in my opinion

i never said replace it ... i meant add tokens beside the normal rng loot!

vmsa is boring after 200+ runs, i just run it, because im in hope to get the weapon what i need ...

but with a token system you have every vmsa run / goldkey for chest a chance to get the item what you need AND you know after 100 vmsa runs you get your item 100%!

i just want a goal for myself for doing pledges or vmsa runs and not always only a "chance" to get it now or in 3 years ...