Ok VMA drops are definitly rigged!!

Bigevilpeter

In the double drops i get, one of them has to be S&B or a Resto or both together. I haven't finished it that much yet I did it 4 times got 3 S&B 3 Resto one dagger one ice staff. I'm not even talking about the traits.

I don't think this is just bad luck, I think the chance to drop S&B and Resto is much higher than the others. I don't think i can talk about traits that much cause i need a much bigger sample size.

My dagger was nirnhoned btw which was ok I guess I will use it on my main hand and my offhand will try to get a sharpened one.

Still I think this is stupid, VMA is annoying and takes so much time playing solo, I think if you can beat it you should be able to get a good weapon in a few runs at least make it fair ZOS don't rigg it its bad enough as it is

Banana

Theres just to many traits that people don't want.

Juhasow

I think 4 clears is not enough to create reasonable opinion about vMA loot.

Bigevilpeter

Juhasow wrote: »

I think 4 clears is not enough to create reasonable opinion about vMA loot.

if in 4 runs u get 3 resto and 3 s&b yes it is.

smokey13a

I've only done 2 runs but the first run I got a sharpened resto staff and a 1 handed mace in precise, the second run I got a lightning staff and bow both in precise so I would say its not rigged but the RNG isn't as random as it could be, although I read a thread yesterday where people were listing all the weapons and traits they were getting and there was a lot of variety so I think you just had bad luck.

covenant_merchant

Forwarding from the https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/302215/double-vma-loot-which-weapons-did-you-get#latest thread:

Okay so, I've taken all the loot I got from vMSA, the loot of the people who posted there (only took those who mentioned trait + item for every run and ignored quotes + double posts) bringing the total to 510 drops. It's not much but still more than the people who QQ for 10 runs (and I should know, I'm already crying after 10 runs since the event started).

At any rate, here are the results:


And here's some pie charts to help you visualize better:

As you can see, Sharpened is actually the trait that dropped the most out of 510 items. But they all seem pretty equivalent. No reason to cry so far about rigged rng, right ?

However let's take a look at the items themselves:

See ? While the trait drops are pretty similar, the items themselves do not have the same chance to drop, which goes in line with what @Alanar was saying earlier in the thread.

Alanar wrote: »

I've tracked 48 VMA drops, and I can confirm that the 12 weapons do not drop evenly (p < 0.02).

And among these unevenly distributed loots, we have this:


@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno Would you please reconsider having all two-handed weapons for instance with one unique chance to drop instead of 1 chance per exact weapon type?

Just give every weapon a probability to drop of 1/12, and then 1/8 chance to get one particular trait. That would give a sharpened fire staff a 1/96 probability to drop, same as a infused battle-axe, same as a powered dagger... You get my point.

Right now however, we have this unfair mess:

Alanar wrote: »

. So your chances of getting a specific weapon are:

Bow - 1/6
Restoration Staff - 1/6

Dagger - 1/12
Sword - 1/12
Mace - 1/12
Axe - 1/12

Greatsword - 1/18
Battle Axe - 1/18
Maul - 1/18
Lightning Staff - 1/18
Frost Staff - 1/18
Fire Staff - 1/18

So if you're hunting a sharpened fire staff, you have a 1/18 chance of getting a fire staff at all, and a 1/8 chance of getting sharpened, for a total chance of 1/144 on each drop.

Of course, what would be even more reasonable, is to remove useless traits from the vMSA loot table at all. I understand that you've tried to improve them and make them more competitive. Well, I'm sorry to inform you that it didn't work. Sharpened by far outmatches any other trait on any offensive weapon, be it in PvP or PvE.

I don't know if you'll read this; I mean I guess you're tagged in a whole bunch of comments from butthurt kids, but this is actually a bit more serious than "omg another charged resto. Give me my BiS gear, I deserve it".

You've listened to people complaining about RESTORATION STAVES OF RED MOUNTAIN out of all things. How can you blatantly ignore vMSA drops and a major chunk of end-game PvE content?

We do not have Arcane Rings of the Vicious Ophidian dropping in 12-men Trials, after all. So why should we deal with Powered destruction staves.. I know I'm comparing "smart loot" types with weapon traits here, but the end result is the same. You wouldn't wear an Arcane ring of the Vicious Ophidian to do end-game PvE, and you wouldn't use a Powered Fire staff either.

PvP players are even worse off, since they do not even have a PvP equivalent to vDSA - vMSA weapons. There's no 1-slot/bonus weapon available to you through PvP. Or at all actually. Just these 1/144 chance to drop vMSA weapons.

You want your customers to enjoy the game, right? (Well, you probably want them to pay and consume more, but lets just pretend for a second that you do have good intentions at heart). Not everyone enjoys the PvE aspect of the game. And even fewer people enjoy spending more or less one hour doing the same arenas over and over and over and over again simply to be rewarded unusable loot that cannot even be sold to make some profit (52 gold, really?).

Being severely limited in your choice of builds because there simply is no alternative to these 1-piece/bonus weapons is disheartening. And there's a number of suggestions that people have already put up on forums and tried to convey to you, if only you were willing to listen.

• Make a token system: get tokens after each run, and a certain amount of tokens gives you the right to chose a weapon
• Add Undaunted Plunder to vMSA, or any kind of material reward. It is a Trial, after all. People spend valuable and expensive potions, repair gear, only to be rewarded with nothing. It's one of the biggest gold sinks in game at the moment, along with crafting motifs. And not everyone has gold to sink to begin with.
• Bring back the old trait system: Sharpened - Precise - Defending, which worked, and should not have been changed to begin with.
• Give all vMSA weapons the same probability to drop, instead of one global probability per big weapon type, and then one chance per sub-type.
• Make vMSA weapons tradeable between people who have completed it in a day/week/ever.
• Make vMSA weapons Bind on Equip.
• Add other interesting sets for people to take interest in vMSA again. (Apart from Winterborn, and maybe Hunt on a stamblade with shade, the sets that drop from vMSA are worthless).
• Give the vMSA shield an actual one-piece bonus, instead of the random piece of chopped wood we get and instantly get rid off.
• Give PvP players a similar one-piece/bonus weapon to get through PvP means (amount of Alliance Points perhaps?).
• Indirectly, make jewerly craftable. Right now we're stuck with willpower/agility/endurance or aether/ophidian 3 piece combos. Which means that, should you want to equip a 5-piece bonus set and an undaunted set, you're stuck with a no-set staff (this is mostly viable for PvP though). Making jewerly craftable would give more variety to builds, and less necessity to farm vMSA for players who just don't want to have random weapons equipped.

These all seem like reasonable suggestions, and there were threads made, polls voted upon, and overall a big response from the community about this issue. But, whenever you get your hopes up seing that there is a Z logo next to it and a dev has commented, it's usually to say "this thread has been moved to X category" or "this comment has been edited for profanity/irrelevance".
Come on, team! We know you're here somewhere, doing /lurk on ERP threads. So lets talk for once about what actually matters.

EDITED:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Rich hasn't been arrested. He still silently lurks the forums daily, but word on the street is that you're more likely to get a /lurk out of him with constructive posts.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I normally lurk on the forums pretty regularly – expect to see me out and about a bit more often.

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno this is as constructive as posts can get.

Malmai

R.I.G.G.E.D.

xblackroxe

So much bs around. All these numbers you give aren't even close to make a statiscally correct assumption.
Thats like if I would look at my last 2 runs. Got snb precise nirn, sharp 2h axe, sharp inferno and smth else and conclude must be rigged cause i got a 1/4 chance to drop a sharp inferno lol.

covenant_merchant

xblackroxe wrote: »

So much bs around. All these numbers you give aren't even close to make a statiscally correct assumption.
Thats like if I would look at my last 2 runs. Got snb precise nirn, sharp 2h axe, sharp inferno and smth else and conclude must be rigged cause i got a 1/4 chance to drop a sharp inferno lol.

@xblackroxe 510 runs seems like a more decent sample than 4...

EDIT: Summed up if you're too tired to read but not tired enough to call ***, traits have the same chance to drop. They aren't rigged. It's the items themselves that have a global chance to drop by category:
resto and bow on their own, all 1h weapons together, all 2h weapons together, and all destro staves together.
Whether you chose to call it rigged or not is your call, but it remains nonetheless either an oversight or just a plain unfair distribution.

Julianos

Ofc its rigged dont believe if people post some charts they all lie RNG is not random i figured out we always get the most *** traits and items first it improves as we farm more and its started drop better traits for example sharpened maybe they have even chances but you will get sharpened always after 100 runs or more thats how the rig works.

xblackroxe

kasa-obake wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

So much bs around. All these numbers you give aren't even close to make a statiscally correct assumption.
Thats like if I would look at my last 2 runs. Got snb precise nirn, sharp 2h axe, sharp inferno and smth else and conclude must be rigged cause i got a 1/4 chance to drop a sharp inferno lol.

@xblackroxe 510 runs seems like a more decent sample than 4...

EDIT: Summed up if you're too tired to read but not tired enough to call ***, traits have the same chance to drop. They aren't rigged. It's the items themselves that have a global chance to drop by category:
resto and bow on their own, all 1h weapons together, all 2h weapons together, and all destro staves together.
Whether you chose to call it rigged or not is your call, but it remains nonetheless either an oversight or just a plain unfair distribution.

Yes I read your post. And thx for clarifying that traits are not rigged. Neither are weapon drops. Its just a stupid way to make weapons drop.
EDIT: Also impressive work on doing vma almost twice a day on average since wrotgar launched.

covenant_merchant

Axorn wrote: »

Ofc its rigged dont believe if people post some charts they all lie RNG is not random i figured out we always get the most *** traits and items first it improves as we farm more and its started drop better traits for example sharpened maybe they have even chances but you will get sharpened always after 100 runs or more thats how the rig works.

Axorn wrote: »

it improves as we farm more and its started drop better traits .

Axorn wrote: »

it improves as we farm more

Do you even RNG, bro?

Mojmir

It's rigged because they have no other way to extend gameplay. All they know now is rng, just look at one tamriel the grindfest.

covenant_merchant

xblackroxe wrote: »

kasa-obake wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

So much bs around. All these numbers you give aren't even close to make a statiscally correct assumption.
Thats like if I would look at my last 2 runs. Got snb precise nirn, sharp 2h axe, sharp inferno and smth else and conclude must be rigged cause i got a 1/4 chance to drop a sharp inferno lol.

@xblackroxe 510 runs seems like a more decent sample than 4...

EDIT: Summed up if you're too tired to read but not tired enough to call ***, traits have the same chance to drop. They aren't rigged. It's the items themselves that have a global chance to drop by category:
resto and bow on their own, all 1h weapons together, all 2h weapons together, and all destro staves together.
Whether you chose to call it rigged or not is your call, but it remains nonetheless either an oversight or just a plain unfair distribution.

Yes I read your post. And thx for clarifying that traits are not rigged. Neither are weapon drops. Its just a stupid way to make weapons drop.
EDIT: Also impressive work on doing vma almost twice a day on average since wrotgar launched.

@xblackroxe meh, I ran it 11 times in the first 12 hours of the event and calmed down a bit since, for I'd like to think I do have a life.
But yeah I'm at an average of 2-3 runs per day now, still noting all the loot I get. The 510 runs comprise the data from other players, the posts like " "s&b x10000 (not mentioning trait) and finally one sharpened destro (unknown type) after an unknown number of runs" notwithstanding.

Ch4mpTW

Mojmir wrote: »

It's rigged because they have no other way to extend gameplay. All they know now is rng, just look at one tamriel the grindfest.

I know someone who still has no Martial Knowledge 1H of any kind, and has been supposedly grinding Craglorn since 1T tons of times since it's initial release on console. I told them to just buy it, but they'd rather 'earn' it. They still are grinding as I post this. Lol.

bottleofsyrup

xblackroxe wrote: »

kasa-obake wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

So much bs around. All these numbers you give aren't even close to make a statiscally correct assumption.
Thats like if I would look at my last 2 runs. Got snb precise nirn, sharp 2h axe, sharp inferno and smth else and conclude must be rigged cause i got a 1/4 chance to drop a sharp inferno lol.

@xblackroxe 510 runs seems like a more decent sample than 4...

EDIT: Summed up if you're too tired to read but not tired enough to call ***, traits have the same chance to drop. They aren't rigged. It's the items themselves that have a global chance to drop by category:
resto and bow on their own, all 1h weapons together, all 2h weapons together, and all destro staves together.
Whether you chose to call it rigged or not is your call, but it remains nonetheless either an oversight or just a plain unfair distribution.

Yes I read your post. And thx for clarifying that traits are not rigged. Neither are weapon drops. Its just a stupid way to make weapons drop.
EDIT: Also impressive work on doing vma almost twice a day on average since wrotgar launched.

Way to ignore the first part of the post.

Okay so, I've taken all the loot I got from vMSA, the loot of the people who posted there (only took those who mentioned trait + item for every run and ignored quotes + double posts) bringing the total to 510 drops. It's not much but still more than the people who QQ for 10 runs (and I should know, I'm already crying after 10 runs since the event started).

xblackroxe

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

kasa-obake wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

So much bs around. All these numbers you give aren't even close to make a statiscally correct assumption.
Thats like if I would look at my last 2 runs. Got snb precise nirn, sharp 2h axe, sharp inferno and smth else and conclude must be rigged cause i got a 1/4 chance to drop a sharp inferno lol.

@xblackroxe 510 runs seems like a more decent sample than 4...

EDIT: Summed up if you're too tired to read but not tired enough to call ***, traits have the same chance to drop. They aren't rigged. It's the items themselves that have a global chance to drop by category:
resto and bow on their own, all 1h weapons together, all 2h weapons together, and all destro staves together.
Whether you chose to call it rigged or not is your call, but it remains nonetheless either an oversight or just a plain unfair distribution.

Yes I read your post. And thx for clarifying that traits are not rigged. Neither are weapon drops. Its just a stupid way to make weapons drop.
EDIT: Also impressive work on doing vma almost twice a day on average since wrotgar launched.

Way to ignore the first part of the post.

Okay so, I've taken all the loot I got from vMSA, the loot of the people who posted there (only took those who mentioned trait + item for every run and ignored quotes + double posts) bringing the total to 510 drops. It's not much but still more than the people who QQ for 10 runs (and I should know, I'm already crying after 10 runs since the event started).

I read the post afterwards. I was talking to OP.

Neophyte

Defo rigged. Past 4 runs

X5 resto staffs-- x2 charged x2 powered X1 sharpened,

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Kingbawsack wrote: »

Defo rigged. Past 4 runs

X5 resto staffs-- x2 charged x2 powered X1 sharpened,

Some people really need some 101 statistics....

covenant_merchant

It's not rigged... The weapons just have different probabilities to drop, with smaller chances for the most desired weapons. Again, please read instead of being a one-track pony, repeating "omg such cheatings" after 4 runs.

I was on a quest to actually prove it was rigged. Trying to prove the RNJesus is skewed. Turns out it's not. It's just a question of different probabilities for item drops, not traits.

I don't know whether it was done deliberately or if it was an oversight, but if you're going to inc ZOS, inc them about what matters.

idk

Juhasow wrote: »

I think 4 clears is not enough to create reasonable opinion about vMA loot.

Correct. Every thread on this same subject this week has had to small of a pool to provide even minimally useful information on the subject.

Qbiken

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

I think 4 clears is not enough to create reasonable opinion about vMA loot.

if in 4 runs u get 3 resto and 3 s&b yes it is.

No it´s not. If you have had like 400-500 runs and only got resto staffs and s&b, you´ve have a point. But 4 clears??

DPShiro

Another waaah-waaah I didn't get my BiS endgame weapon in 1-2 tries.

I'm all for a token system or revising/reworking the rates and traits. But to whine and complain after a few runs is just silly, at least put in some actual work before making yet another thread.

Silver_Strider

We need an official "Maelstrom Woes" topic, so everyone can cry there.

jakeedmundson

DPShiro wrote: »

Another waaah-waaah I didn't get my BiS endgame weapon in 1-2 tries.

I'm all for a token system or revising/reworking the rates and traits. But to whine and complain after a few runs is just silly, at least put in some actual work before making yet another thread.

Look at @kasa-obake 's post with the 500+ drops.... its no longer a suspicion of weighted drops. you are more likely to get bows and resto staffs than any other item... though i do seem to personally find A LOT of sword and shield drops this week...

DPShiro

jakeedmundson wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Another waaah-waaah I didn't get my BiS endgame weapon in 1-2 tries.

I'm all for a token system or revising/reworking the rates and traits. But to whine and complain after a few runs is just silly, at least put in some actual work before making yet another thread.

Look at @kasa-obake 's post with the 500+ drops.... its no longer a suspicion of weighted drops. you are more likely to get bows and resto staffs than any other item... though i do seem to personally find A LOT of sword and shield drops this week...

I completely agree, I've done 500+ runs myself, and I'm still missing one weapon in right trait.
But we already know the rates and traits are bad, and ZoS does too, as we have 576674783 new topics each day about it.

However, complaining after 2-3 runs is still silly, no matter what.

covenant_merchant

@DPShiro What he ^ said.

@jakeedmundson well swords and boards do have a higher chance ton drop than 2h or staves, so it's not that unlikely.
As for the % 500 drops still isn't that much, all things considered. I plan on updating my charts and tables during the event. Perhaps numbers like 2k+ runs will finally garner enough attention.

I saw no point however in delaying this post. The sooner it's out there and acknowledged, the sooner we can hope for a resolution.
Or no changes at all and merely an answer like "yeah we're aware. Deal with it 8)". Any answer would still be better than no reply at all though.

DPShiro

It is acknowledged by the players, and probably by ZoS too. But it's been this way since DB, and its probably going to stay that way sadly. As they are working on new content instead of reworking old.

Maybe next Orisinium anniversary? That is if they are still worth using at that time.

Junipus

kasa-obake wrote: »

@DPShiro What he ^ said.

@jakeedmundson well swords and boards do have a higher chance ton drop than 2h or staves, so it's not that unlikely.
As for the % 500 drops still isn't that much, all things considered. I plan on updating my charts and tables during the event. Perhaps numbers like 2k+ runs will finally garner enough attention.

I saw no point however in delaying this post. The sooner it's out there and acknowledged, the sooner we can hope for a resolution.
Or no changes at all and merely an answer like "yeah we're aware. Deal with it 8)". Any answer would still be better than no reply at all though.

Or the more realistic scenario where once the event is over and people lose interest again, they'll find other things to focus their complaints about and vMA will carry on the same as it always was since the guaranteed drop rate change. In the meantime, more end game players will continue to vent their frustration over the loot drops until they stop running it and go back to whatever they were doing before the event.

Essentially things will go back to the occasional vent by the usual suspects on not getting their sought after item and the ESO world will pivot onto the next big complaint.

Ch4mpTW

Junipus wrote: »

kasa-obake wrote: »

@DPShiro What he ^ said.

@jakeedmundson well swords and boards do have a higher chance ton drop than 2h or staves, so it's not that unlikely.
As for the % 500 drops still isn't that much, all things considered. I plan on updating my charts and tables during the event. Perhaps numbers like 2k+ runs will finally garner enough attention.

I saw no point however in delaying this post. The sooner it's out there and acknowledged, the sooner we can hope for a resolution.
Or no changes at all and merely an answer like "yeah we're aware. Deal with it 8)". Any answer would still be better than no reply at all though.

Or the more realistic scenario where once the event is over and people lose interest again, they'll find other things to focus their complaints about and vMA will carry on the same as it always was since the guaranteed drop rate change. In the meantime, more end game players will continue to vent their frustration over the loot drops until they stop running it and go back to whatever they were doing before the event.

Essentially things will go back to the occasional vent by the usual suspects on not getting their sought after item and the ESO world will pivot onto the next big complaint.

Luckily I can say that I won't be apart of that crowd of complainers, once this event is over. As I will be focusing on Skyrim and other games the day after the Orsinium Event is over. As I've said in a few other threads, I'm at peace with VMA after my past 2 drops from it. As well as from earning my Flawless Conqueror on PS4. I have all I want from trials, and PvP died to me a long time ago. I've obtained all skins, except for the Maw skin and Imperial City Sewers skin. I've also acquired all that I could want gear-wise from dungeons and Overland sets, so ESO has lost its appeal to me; become very mediocre. My champion points are in the 600's, so there isn't even a reason for me to grind out CP. Plus, I have multiple max level characters. So leveling anymore is definitely not an option to keep me playing.

I play ESO now in hopes of acquiring a lightning staff of any kind from Maelstrom Arena, but if I don't get one after the event is over? Oh well. I'll still be quitting, and only returning once the next DLC/expansion goes live. Too many amazing games have come out to be investing anymore time into ESO other than on a very light and barely mild level. It's just not worth it.

However! Much love and respect to those who will continue to indulge their energy and time in ESO, and will remain hooked to ZOS' false-promises and horrible RNG across the board. But, I just can't be bothered anymore with it.

Junipus

Can I have your stuff?