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Time to buff shields again (mag sorc perspective)

incite
incite
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I know there has been a lot of threads on these kind of subjects already (this is obvious not the only imbalance) but I wanted to adress Light Armor Users specifically, who's defence mostly rely on shields.

So here's why:

In the past it has proven that shields were OP considering the fact you could stack them. I totally agree that something had to be done about them. (we can't have you be tanky, bursty AND have sustain in Light Armor, all at the same time right?) You nerfed it to a 6 sec duration, making it imo useless to waste time and resources to stack them. I'm guessing this was your way to prevent shieldstacking. Ok, I can live with that, playing my build using 1 shield as my main defence. So I adjusted, moved on and it worked fine.

Now, with your introduction of this many proc sets (monster sets and 5 piece sets), I will tell you that a shield has become a 6 sec joke of a defence. Because I'm playing with 1 shield (hardened ward), I try to make it as strong as possible without losing too much sustain and dmg.(BALANCE) I'm sitting on 13.5k hardened ward which is pretty decent and I tell you, against any capable player (mostly stam, fotm and all that), it doesn't even last 2 sec. This is because of the EXTRA burst the procs are giving them. (like having an extra RNGesus skill/ultimate every few seconds...) some of these procs are hitting harder than an ultimate for crying out loud !


Adjust something in Battlespirit to nerf these procs in PVP ONLY (leave them PVE players alone) which I would prefer most... or buff mag shields in strength (not time) to counter this stam meta.

The voice of a Light Armor mag sorc, a dying breed...
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  • NativeJoe
    NativeJoe
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    While I'm with you for the Shields... In reality changing them won't do much. The entire class needs a revamp...we have skills we don't use, We need stamina class based morphs, Make the toggles even more powerful or something because between toggles+pets+shield u got nothing left.

    if pets are going to take up 4 slots.. they need to be able to atleast out dps the heals of vigor+rally. I mean they are 2 shot anyway... I don't think it's to much of a request lol

    Shield duration's need to go up. like all of them. I need to be able to atleast REz someone before they expire. like thats the bear minimum.

    We also need more supporting stuff... like magicka based pet summons, and various other things need to be expanded upon.
    Magicka needs some nasty options like stamina has right now...and that goes beyond sorc.

    Anyway...random conjecture at 3:30 am for me. Toodles ~Brokenstick
    650cp+ Sorcerer 100+ days /played
    Broken'Stick North American Server

  • incite
    incite
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    NativeJoe wrote: »
    While I'm with you for the Shields... In reality changing them won't do much. The entire class needs a revamp...we have skills we don't use, We need stamina class based morphs, Make the toggles even more powerful or something because between toggles+pets+shield u got nothing left.

    if pets are going to take up 4 slots.. they need to be able to atleast out dps the heals of vigor+rally. I mean they are 2 shot anyway... I don't think it's to much of a request lol

    Shield duration's need to go up. like all of them. I need to be able to atleast REz someone before they expire. like thats the bear minimum.

    We also need more supporting stuff... like magicka based pet summons, and various other things need to be expanded upon.
    Magicka needs some nasty options like stamina has right now...and that goes beyond sorc.

    Anyway...random conjecture at 3:30 am for me. Toodles ~Brokenstick

    Yes NativeJoe, like i said, there are lot more imbalances concerning mag and stam, sorc skills etc, I just wanted to adress 1 of em, concerning the main defence of a light armor user. Good input tho

    Edited by incite on October 31, 2016 10:42AM
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  • incite
    incite
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    Mauz wrote: »
    In a fight you have to rebuff your shield every couple of seconds.

    thx for stating the obvious

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  • Cozzy1991
    Cozzy1991
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    Sounds like an L2P issue. Use your shields correctly and build max magicka and no amount of proc sets will gimp your shields. If you're playing a magicka sorc (you mentioned hardened ward) and you aren't placing those mine against a stam user, you deserve to lose. #puglfye
  • susmitds
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    The problem is that players that don't use Proc sets already struggle to break shields in duels and most sorcerers stack two or more shields. Buffing shields will make it necessary to use procs
  • incite
    incite
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    susmitds wrote: »
    The problem is that players that don't use Proc sets already struggle to break shields in duels and most sorcerers stack two or more shields. Buffing shields will make it necessary to use procs

    I agree, I for one don't use 2 shields, not even in duels but i do know that stacking shields in 1v1's is still a viable thing. Imo, it would be better to have only 1 shield active at a time.

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  • incite
    incite
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    Alucardo wrote: »
    Truth be told, I still use medium armor and don't run full proc builds, so shield stackers are still a pain in the butt for me. I agree 6 seconds is ridiculous though.

    To make Light armor a little more useful, I'd add into one of the passives that requires 5 pieces of Light armor or more a bonus that extends shield duration by 100%. So if it's 6 seconds, you get 12 seconds.
    If it's still lacking, they could add bonus mitigation to the shield in that passive also.

    Basically, if you're running Light armor, then shields should get more of a bonus.

    Indeed, believe it or not, I would rather c 1 shield active at a time, but make that shield a bit more 'strengthier' than it is now. Ofc not the same strength than the 2 shields combined like now, but a shield that can at least take a bit more than just 1-2 hits.

    So instead of increasing the time, i would rather c increase of dmg absorption BUT without being able to stack shields
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  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    Shields are a tricky one. I play both stamsorc (with procs) and magsorc (with shields) - so see from both sides.

    The problem with shields (when comparing to anything that reduces incoming dmg (eg resistances/blocking etc) is that shields don't scale on number of enemies. In large scale combat, those shields can be stripped (and often are) almost instantly - yet other defences that reduce dmg (hvy armour/blocking etc) are still present. Roll-dodging is arguably better the more attacks come in as they'll all miss. Basically compared to other defences, shields scale VERY badly.

    So how do Zos balances that without making them too strong in 1v1? Beats me, to be honest...

    However, o/p does have a point. Proc sets have boosted dmg a LOT lately, and that does make shields drop much more quickly with even a single opponent. I've often found it very difficult now to stop casting shields long enough to get one full burst rotation in.

    Not sure if the answer is to max magicka to insane levels, or to instead invest less in magicka and put more into stam/roll-dodge cost reduction - maybe run shuffle to mix in avoidance with shields for a more layered defence.. Not sure if shields should last longer now - (don't think it will make any difference) or if they should be a little stronger - or perhaps have some extra mechanism that makes procs less effective vs shields.. idk. Maybe just make poison slide off them or something..

    Dunno - but I think either they'll either need to be buffed now - or they will do very soon with the direction the game is taking.

    Edited by Biro123 on October 31, 2016 12:42PM
    Minalan owes me a beer.

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  • sirrmattus
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    buffing a shield for magic just means magic vs magic will be a never ending fight. That isnt the solution to your problems. The solution is to give magic users/skills more damage potential.

    OR

    I think this would solve a lot of issues; Reduce cost of all magic skills by 10%
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  • Minalan
    Minalan
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    sirrmattus wrote: »
    buffing a shield for magic just means magic vs magic will be a never ending fight. That isnt the solution to your problems. The solution is to give magic users/skills more damage potential.

    OR

    I think this would solve a lot of issues; Reduce cost of all magic skills by 10%

    I think light armor needs a rework. Heavy armor does far too much damage for the protection, so everyone uses it. Magicka Sorc is extremely ineffective though in heavy, but we still don't do enough damage in light to justify the missing protection.

    Light armor should
    Reduce magicka costs more.
    Increase spell damage
    Increase shield strength and duration

    Destro staff needs a flat 20% reduction in cost. Bow gets it, why don't we? Destro damage needs a buff, all we hear out there is a constant bow twang from 30+ people and there's a reason for it.

    Magicka Sorc passives and skills need a close look and rework. It's pretty bad out there for a magicka Sorc.
    Edited by Minalan on October 31, 2016 2:06PM
  • Rune_Relic
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    How about a combo right click block
    base/block/ward = physical * crit + magical * crit
    Then have strength vs cost/s

    Make combo block/ward a right click channel with cost/s

    This means you can keep ward/block up.
    Powerful ward/block has a much higher cost/s and will drain your resource much more quickly.
    This way you can tune your spell/weapon resists bias and also duration vs power.
    A sustainable but weak shield/ward (that lets some damage through) vs a powerful but unsustainable shield/ward (that doesnt let damage through)
    Edited by Rune_Relic on October 31, 2016 2:25PM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • incite
    incite
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    Minalan wrote: »
    sirrmattus wrote: »
    buffing a shield for magic just means magic vs magic will be a never ending fight. That isnt the solution to your problems. The solution is to give magic users/skills more damage potential.

    OR

    I think this would solve a lot of issues; Reduce cost of all magic skills by 10%

    I think light armor needs a rework. Heavy armor does far too much damage for the protection, so everyone uses it. Magicka Sorc is extremely ineffective though in heavy, but we still don't do enough damage in light to justify the missing protection.

    Light armor should
    Reduce magicka costs more.
    Increase spell damage
    Increase shield strength and duration

    Destro staff needs a flat 20% reduction in cost. Bow gets it, why don't we? Destro damage needs a buff, all we hear out there is a constant bow twang from 30+ people and there's a reason for it.

    Magicka Sorc passives and skills need a close look and rework. It's pretty bad out there for a magicka Sorc.

    This pretty much sums it all up, I just adressed the defence of LA users but everything you just said is what ive been preaching and praying for past months...
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  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
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    No.
  • LegacyDM
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    Seriously? I fight people like German, force siphon, redding ton James, maverick, Micah, and Jedi. There shields are so fracken thick I can't do jack to penetrate. Even with 20% in shattering blow and a 9600 spell damage on funnel health they shield stack like a boss. This is clearly a l2p issue. I mean have you even had to fight through Germans shields on Alissa bridge cubby hole? shields op.
    Edited by LegacyDM on November 1, 2016 5:37AM
    Legacy of Kain
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  • zuto40
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    The majority of the best skilled players ive seen recently and all throughout my time are magic sorcs, as someone who doesnt use cheese proc sets shield stacking with mines makes an impenetrable fortress in which no magic sorc if they are skilled should ever lose to a stam character, even with the proc sets shield stacking completely negates all the damage done by them and makes their dps almost 0 for 4 seconds minimum, magic and stam sorcs are still very strong and in the case of stam sorcs possibly even too strong, nightblades need the buffs overall and mgdk needs buffs for open world pvp, and yes nightblades have incap but theyre still the worst stam class for duels and open world and magic is 3rd worst for open and outclassed by the other magic classes in duels
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  • incite
    incite
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    LegacyDM wrote: »
    Seriously? I fight people like German, force siphon, redding ton James, maverick, Micah, and Jedi. There shields are so fracken thick I can't do jack to penetrate. Even with 20% in shattering blow and a 9600 spell damage on funnel health they shield stack like a boss. This is clearly a l2p issue. I mean have you even had to fight through Germans shields on Alissa bridge cubby hole? shields op.

    So sick and tired reading this 'l2p' issue, no fence but just because I don't stream or make video's, doesn't mean I don't know how to play my sorc and haven't proven to be good at it. I'll tell you this, 1. You need to L2R the thread b4 spitting your opinion.
    I'm NOT talking about stacking shields, I'm actually very much against it. Tbh, if you're having problems vs shields, maybe you need to change something, no fence. Shieldstacking is dumb and has become less viable because of the duration, hence my thread. I'm actually talking about people who melt shield like it's nothing, seems you're not there yet. Ofc, I can't MAKE you understand because it seems you have 0 knowledge on mag sorc. Sorry for my rant but reading your post makes me sick.

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  • incite
    incite
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    zuto40 wrote: »
    shield stacking with mines makes an impenetrable fortress in which no magic sorc if they are skilled should ever lose to a stam character, even with the proc sets

    :D

    1. shieldstacking should not be allowed imo, hence my thread as a player who uses 1 shield (if you gonna keep shield stacking, you're eventually gonna lose unless you're playing a casual) if you keep investing time and resources in keeping 2 shields up, you are gonna lose eventually. no pressure on enemy = lose (unless your enemy makes mistakes)

    2. mines impen? perhaps vs players who don't know what they're doing, again, against any decent player, don't even bother to cast them, they eat mines for breakfast so don't know where you getting this from

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  • Alucardo
    Alucardo
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    LegacyDM wrote: »
    Seriously? I fight people like German, force siphon, redding ton James, maverick, Micah, and Jedi. There shields are so fracken thick I can't do jack to penetrate. Even with 20% in shattering blow and a 9600 spell damage on funnel health they shield stack like a boss. This is clearly a l2p issue. I mean have you even had to fight through Germans shields on Alissa bridge cubby hole? shields op.

    Keep in mind that while they're stacking shields they aren't attacking you, and they're burning through their magicka
    (sqweee )>--- ۜ\(סּںסּَ` )/ۜ
  • Docmandu
    Docmandu
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    Buffing shields would only help the mag sorc.. there's other classes that would like to play in Light armor, so IMHO the "fix" for all these absurd sets and super over the top Wrobel balance damage, is not make a sorc's shield bigger.

    Sad part is.. we're gonna have to wait for Update 18 before a certain part of the studio gets time to work on balance.. and even then you know they are gonna f up.
  • Alucardo
    Alucardo
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    Docmandu wrote: »
    Buffing shields would only help the mag sorc.. there's other classes that would like to play in Light armor, so IMHO the "fix" for all these absurd sets and super over the top Wrobel balance damage, is not make a sorc's shield bigger.

    Sad part is.. we're gonna have to wait for Update 18 before a certain part of the studio gets time to work on balance.. and even then you know they are gonna f up.

    The only sorcs I have trouble with are pet sorcs. Trying to break down their walls is like attempting to crack open fort knox, or open a pickle jar with the strength of a child.
    What's more is their pets can put out quite a lot of damage, so while the sorc is shield stacking, they're pets can still go to town on you and get protected at the same time. This is the only reason I'd be scared about buffing shields, but on the flipside I can see why other light armor magicka builds would want it.
    (sqweee )>--- ۜ\(סּںסּَ` )/ۜ
  • FearlessOne_2014
    FearlessOne_2014
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    LegacyDM wrote: »
    Seriously? I fight people like German, force siphon, redding ton James, maverick, Micah, and Jedi. There shields are so fracken thick I can't do jack to penetrate. Even with 20% in shattering blow and a 9600 spell damage on funnel health they shield stack like a boss. This is clearly a l2p issue. I mean have you even had to fight through Germans shields on Alissa bridge cubby hole? shields op.

    Wait this is the same German that has been banned and one of the causes of vMA scores being erased off of the leaderboards. Because of the fact he was using Cheat Engine? Or is this a different German? If it's the same German then maybe "L2P issue" is that every MagSorc is not using Cheat Engine in that case it's not a "L2P" issue. It's more of a learn to cheat issues(L2C).

    If this be the case. Then I can just buy a potato machine that can barely run ESO. Install ESO, then buy and install Cheat Engine, then also be one of the very select people running around in Cyrodiil with OP unbreakable shields as well. :naughty:
    Edited by FearlessOne_2014 on November 1, 2016 10:44AM
  • DeanTheCat
    DeanTheCat
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    If shield scaling vs multiple enemies is the main issue, why not change the Light Armour 5pc to this?

    Arcane Bastion:
    - Increases spell critical by X/Y when wearing 5 or more pieces of Light Armour.
    - Increases shield strength by 10/20% for each enemy player after the first within 18m of yourself, up to a maximum of 100%.
    - If one of your shields are shattered within 3 seconds of another shield shattering, gain precision for your next attack.

    Effects of proposed changes:
    - Allows increased survivability of Light Armour wearers against multiple targets, while not affecting the effectiveness of Shields in a 1v1 environment or in PvE where the sheer number of mobs present will almost always ensure that the additional targets condition is active.
    - Allows counterplay by spreading out and using ranged attacks, which is the forte of Magicka.
    - Increases the offensive staying power of Light Armour wearers by ensuring that if their shields get shattered back to back, they gain a free guaranteed critical hit.
    Dean the Cat
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  • Lava_Croft
    Lava_Croft
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    Sorcerers are the only class that can still run around Cyrodiil in Light Armor.

    Other classes need more help in this department.
  • cschwingeb14_ESO
    cschwingeb14_ESO
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    Part of the problem is that HA is so good and synergizes better with stam than magicka

    I personally hate shield stacking (on my mag sorc), and would rather shield actually be an"emergency" response, the way explained by devs. But you can't survive like that in light armor. You need to pre stack or get detonated.
  • incite
    incite
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    Lava_Croft wrote: »
    Sorcerers are the only class that can still run around Cyrodiil in Light Armor.

    Other classes need more help in this department.

    I agree, but that has nothing to do with a sorc using light armor, it mainly because of his mobility. Imo, zos created it that each LA user is almost obligated to run some sort of shield (dampen, harness,...). I don't c any LA user without shields surviving long in pvp.

    Obviously, there is a lot of things they need to change about LA, I won't deny that (not only LA), I just wanted to adress 1 'part' of this aspect, the shield, and how I experience lacking a lot in defence with the current state of pvp. If they don't change anything about this procmania going on atm (which I think they won't), they should at least check out the defence of the LA players.

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  • Lava_Croft
    Lava_Croft
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    It has to do with Sorcerers having access to the best combination of Magicka based shields combined with mobility, even though the latter doesn't mean much thanks to the gap closer spamming and accompanying snare you cannot avoid.
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