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Ebon Shield Drops
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Zekken86✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Health regen doesn't matter in this case because you're not actually taking damage when the tank bar swaps. If I haveMaura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.
Well I didn't think I would of have to spell it out for you ( since you knew what you were talking about when it came to that other posters comment about health regen) but I guess I was wrong. The criteria are:
1: 5-1-1
2: Lose the least amount of armor.
3: Monster set.
(Unwritten but should be obvious) 4: Two 5 piece sets.
A build that meets all the above criteria would be:
2 piece monster set (one medium one heavy)
5 piece alteration mastery ( belt, 3 jewelry, shield) or (belt, 3 jewelry, one handed weapon)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, gloves, boots, and either sword or shield)
Now since this is using dropped sets that only come in a specific armor you lose a little more having the medium piece on your shoulders or helm. Alternatively you could use a dropped set that comes in all armor weights like Bahrahas curse.
2 piece monster set (Both heavy)
5 piece Bahrahas curse ( light belt, 3 jewelry, medium gloves)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, boots, sword and shield)
So... off the wall, non-meta, non 6-degrees of Kevin Bacon from meta, AKA what I just said. Specify so you are not sending poor noobs of into oblivion. Divines knows its hard enough finding good tanks, even when they have all the right information.
By the way Desert Rose is 100× better selfish tank set up than Alteration Mastery, and means you can run Ebon body with 1 Ebon jewelry and just shell out the gold for the weapons. Use all that gold you earned on the 100 CoH unless farm runs.
"Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THATs impressive" Isnt it ironic that DK healer is lecturing me about non-meta? Besides I never said this is what I run or this is the best build. This isn't theory crafting at all. I'm just trying to illustrate my original point that having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options.0 -
Zekken86✭✭starkerealm wrote: »A build that meets all the above criteria would be:
2 piece monster set (one medium one heavy)
5 piece alteration mastery ( belt, 3 jewelry, shield) or (belt, 3 jewelry, one handed weapon)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, gloves, boots, and either sword or shield)
Look, I'll be blunt, I like theory crafting, but that's just a bad loadout. Hell, I'm not 100% certain you wouldn't be better off using Willow's Path with Ebon for that effect.
See my post above. I wasn't theory crafting a real build just pointing out that sometimes you'll want Ebon weapons and shields.
Not sure what you're trying to say about willows path. Could you please elaborate?0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
If you're flagged as in combat, your health regen is considerably lower than out of combat. Off hand, I want to say combat regen (which is what shows up on your character) is about 12% of what you'll recover outside of it. This means if your tank bar swaps Ebon, it'll take far longer for that to recover mid combat.
When you're out of combat, it should take a second to get back up to full, but when you're in combat? Like you said, six seconds assuming your healer is asleep at the switch. Which just just ticks over into the next problem.
If your tank is bar swapping mid boss fight, which isn't that strange of a situation, and completing ebon on their weapons, then you're going to see situations where the DPS are under the one shot threshold. Statistically the odds are fairly slim that the boss will chose that exact moment, but with most fights lasting more than six seconds, the odds go up dramatically over time, and there goes your No Death run.
Second problem if the tank is bar swapping is, it sabotages SPC. Everyone was at full health, then they weren't, but now they are again, which means, right, SPC breaks for everyone involved, because you have to heal them back up, and then overheal them. Now, this is a proc chance, but it means you're making life miserable for the healer all because you couldn't be bothered to slot Ebon on your body.
Yeah, no, if you don't want to run Ebon, then just don't run it. You'll be less annoying for the SPC users out there. If you do run Ebon, then don't complete it with weapons. There might be some legit reason to combo Ebon bar swapping with an effect that requires you to actually heal everyone in the area, like Maturation, but I'm unconvinced.
I run a Prismatic on my Front bar Sheild specificly so I can proc Maturation on myself. I also run Leeching Vines on my tank and Quick Siphon on my healer, meaning everyone is getting 600 heals a second. THAT means 2 seconds max for you Ebon ben swap recovery.
Even thats pointless though because Orbs... My DK Healers Orbs heal for 1138 every 0.5 seconds meaning Ebon health drop is fixed and SPC is proc'd before even one tick of anyones miserable 300 health regen. (By the way I'm not talking the synergy. Thats what they heal while just floating around) If your an SPC user not running Orbs then you're the one in the wrong, not the tank with Ebon weapons. Still way better sets to run on you weapons/jewelry then Ebon though.
I like the part where you completely missed that this isn't about your ability to self heal back up. You're the tank. If losing Ebon for a second is what's getting you killed, you've got far more severe problems. It's the DPS who just ate an 18k hit from Rillis a second after you bar swapped that I'm worried about.
Me? No, actually I think Ebon is a trash set, but it really doesn’t matter one way or another what I wear as long as it’s Heavy. Yeah you brought up SPC procs, which I’ll even say is a valid point, it’s just one already corrected by Mutagian or Orbs. If a DPS is getting hit for 18k anything then either the DPs is oblivious to mechanics, aka Rillis Fire ball after every heavy. Or you have a bad tank not controlling everything they need to, aka Stoneshaper, Deathstriker, Earthgore, Firebrand, Trampler and so on. Also, I’M one of the ones saying DONT WASTE YOUR TIME GETTING EBON WEAPONS. Always wear your health set on your body. Wear the proc set on the weapons.Edited by Maura_Neysa on March 13, 2018 3:51PMMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Health regen doesn't matter in this case because you're not actually taking damage when the tank bar swaps. If I haveMaura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.
Well I didn't think I would of have to spell it out for you ( since you knew what you were talking about when it came to that other posters comment about health regen) but I guess I was wrong. The criteria are:
1: 5-1-1
2: Lose the least amount of armor.
3: Monster set.
(Unwritten but should be obvious) 4: Two 5 piece sets.
A build that meets all the above criteria would be:
2 piece monster set (one medium one heavy)
5 piece alteration mastery ( belt, 3 jewelry, shield) or (belt, 3 jewelry, one handed weapon)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, gloves, boots, and either sword or shield)
Now since this is using dropped sets that only come in a specific armor you lose a little more having the medium piece on your shoulders or helm. Alternatively you could use a dropped set that comes in all armor weights like Bahrahas curse.
2 piece monster set (Both heavy)
5 piece Bahrahas curse ( light belt, 3 jewelry, medium gloves)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, boots, sword and shield)
So... off the wall, non-meta, non 6-degrees of Kevin Bacon from meta, AKA what I just said. Specify so you are not sending poor noobs of into oblivion. Divines knows its hard enough finding good tanks, even when they have all the right information.
By the way Desert Rose is 100× better selfish tank set up than Alteration Mastery, and means you can run Ebon body with 1 Ebon jewelry and just shell out the gold for the weapons. Use all that gold you earned on the 100 CoH unless farm runs.
"Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THATs impressive" Isnt it ironic that DK healer is lecturing me about non-meta? Besides I never said this is what I run or this is the best build. This isn't theory crafting at all. I'm just trying to illustrate my original point that having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options.
There are certain situations where DK healers excel. They are a viable option. Ebon weapons are, technical an option, however they're a bad one. Personally, if I'm a DPS in a dungeon, I'd much rather have a DK healer who knows what they're doing, to a Warden tank who eschews meta because they don't understand it, and proceeds to maul everyone for 1200 health every time they switch bars.
Hell, I would rather have a Warden tank who runs Oblivion's Edge Jewelry and weapons, to one that breaks Ebon on every bar swap. You're playing tag with the boss, you don't need to start cutting yourself in order to proc Maturation.0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Health regen doesn't matter in this case because you're not actually taking damage when the tank bar swaps. If I haveMaura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.
Well I didn't think I would of have to spell it out for you ( since you knew what you were talking about when it came to that other posters comment about health regen) but I guess I was wrong. The criteria are:
1: 5-1-1
2: Lose the least amount of armor.
3: Monster set.
(Unwritten but should be obvious) 4: Two 5 piece sets.
A build that meets all the above criteria would be:
2 piece monster set (one medium one heavy)
5 piece alteration mastery ( belt, 3 jewelry, shield) or (belt, 3 jewelry, one handed weapon)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, gloves, boots, and either sword or shield)
Now since this is using dropped sets that only come in a specific armor you lose a little more having the medium piece on your shoulders or helm. Alternatively you could use a dropped set that comes in all armor weights like Bahrahas curse.
2 piece monster set (Both heavy)
5 piece Bahrahas curse ( light belt, 3 jewelry, medium gloves)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, boots, sword and shield)
So... off the wall, non-meta, non 6-degrees of Kevin Bacon from meta, AKA what I just said. Specify so you are not sending poor noobs of into oblivion. Divines knows its hard enough finding good tanks, even when they have all the right information.
By the way Desert Rose is 100× better selfish tank set up than Alteration Mastery, and means you can run Ebon body with 1 Ebon jewelry and just shell out the gold for the weapons. Use all that gold you earned on the 100 CoH unless farm runs.
"Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THATs impressive" Isnt it ironic that DK healer is lecturing me about non-meta? Besides I never said this is what I run or this is the best build. This isn't theory crafting at all. I'm just trying to illustrate my original point that having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options.
There are certain situations where DK healers excel. They are a viable option. Ebon weapons are, technical an option, however they're a bad one. Personally, if I'm a DPS in a dungeon, I'd much rather have a DK healer who knows what they're doing, to a Warden tank who eschews meta because they don't understand it, and proceeds to maul everyone for 1200 health every time they switch bars.
Hell, I would rather have a Warden tank who runs Oblivion's Edge Jewelry and weapons, to one that breaks Ebon on every bar swap. You're playing tag with the boss, you don't need to start cutting yourself in order to proc Maturation.
Might want to go re-read that post you’re arguing about.Edited by Maura_Neysa on March 13, 2018 4:11PMMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light?
Okay, that creates a novel image. A healer with Ebon and Sanctuary wandering around screaming, "I'm a Christmas Tree!" in zone at 2am.
Just, please don't take that into a dungeon.
I actually have Santuary that I can run on my tank as my second set. Rarely a reason to, but it was pretty nice while off tanking vSO HM, oh my self heals were so effective lol
By the way only tried it because the group was failing hard and I was just f***ing around by that point.
Yeah, I could see that working, actually. There's even healthy jewelry for Sanctuary, I think. So it's not as out there as it might first appear.
Also, thinking outside the box like that is kinda why I keep Barrier for my tank. War Horn is better (and slotted), but if the healer starts hurting, "I'M HELPING!"
On low risk stuff, when everyone's fine, I'll break Ebon, and run 2pc Maw. Not META, but watching that Daedroth plod around torching things is weirdly amusing.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Health regen doesn't matter in this case because you're not actually taking damage when the tank bar swaps. If I haveMaura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.
Well I didn't think I would of have to spell it out for you ( since you knew what you were talking about when it came to that other posters comment about health regen) but I guess I was wrong. The criteria are:
1: 5-1-1
2: Lose the least amount of armor.
3: Monster set.
(Unwritten but should be obvious) 4: Two 5 piece sets.
A build that meets all the above criteria would be:
2 piece monster set (one medium one heavy)
5 piece alteration mastery ( belt, 3 jewelry, shield) or (belt, 3 jewelry, one handed weapon)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, gloves, boots, and either sword or shield)
Now since this is using dropped sets that only come in a specific armor you lose a little more having the medium piece on your shoulders or helm. Alternatively you could use a dropped set that comes in all armor weights like Bahrahas curse.
2 piece monster set (Both heavy)
5 piece Bahrahas curse ( light belt, 3 jewelry, medium gloves)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, boots, sword and shield)
So... off the wall, non-meta, non 6-degrees of Kevin Bacon from meta, AKA what I just said. Specify so you are not sending poor noobs of into oblivion. Divines knows its hard enough finding good tanks, even when they have all the right information.
By the way Desert Rose is 100× better selfish tank set up than Alteration Mastery, and means you can run Ebon body with 1 Ebon jewelry and just shell out the gold for the weapons. Use all that gold you earned on the 100 CoH unless farm runs.
"Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THATs impressive" Isnt it ironic that DK healer is lecturing me about non-meta? Besides I never said this is what I run or this is the best build. This isn't theory crafting at all. I'm just trying to illustrate my original point that having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options.
There are certain situations where DK healers excel. They are a viable option. Ebon weapons are, technical an option, however they're a bad one. Personally, if I'm a DPS in a dungeon, I'd much rather have a DK healer who knows what they're doing, to a Warden tank who eschews meta because they don't understand it, and proceeds to maul everyone for 1200 health every time they switch bars.
Hell, I would rather have a Warden tank who runs Oblivion's Edge Jewelry and weapons, to one that breaks Ebon on every bar swap. You're playing tag with the boss, you don't need to start cutting yourself in order to proc Maturation.
Might one to go re-read that post you’re arguing about.
Let's see... "...having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options." Not good ones.
Look, legitimately, it's your bank space, you want to waste it, that's up to you. But unless you're specifically advocating having a 4pc Ebon, without the 5pc at all, breaking on a bar swap, it is simply a bad idea. You're throwing around ideas like using that brief tick to proc maturation, like there's viable reasons you wouldn't want your party at full health... which, no.
You're deliberately breaking the potential for SPC to proc. If your healer's running that, I'm sure they'll love you for your, "outside the box," thinking there.0 -
Zekken86✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Health regen doesn't matter in this case because you're not actually taking damage when the tank bar swaps. If I haveMaura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.
Well I didn't think I would of have to spell it out for you ( since you knew what you were talking about when it came to that other posters comment about health regen) but I guess I was wrong. The criteria are:
1: 5-1-1
2: Lose the least amount of armor.
3: Monster set.
(Unwritten but should be obvious) 4: Two 5 piece sets.
A build that meets all the above criteria would be:
2 piece monster set (one medium one heavy)
5 piece alteration mastery ( belt, 3 jewelry, shield) or (belt, 3 jewelry, one handed weapon)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, gloves, boots, and either sword or shield)
Now since this is using dropped sets that only come in a specific armor you lose a little more having the medium piece on your shoulders or helm. Alternatively you could use a dropped set that comes in all armor weights like Bahrahas curse.
2 piece monster set (Both heavy)
5 piece Bahrahas curse ( light belt, 3 jewelry, medium gloves)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, boots, sword and shield)
So... off the wall, non-meta, non 6-degrees of Kevin Bacon from meta, AKA what I just said. Specify so you are not sending poor noobs of into oblivion. Divines knows its hard enough finding good tanks, even when they have all the right information.
By the way Desert Rose is 100× better selfish tank set up than Alteration Mastery, and means you can run Ebon body with 1 Ebon jewelry and just shell out the gold for the weapons. Use all that gold you earned on the 100 CoH unless farm runs.
"Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THATs impressive" Isnt it ironic that DK healer is lecturing me about non-meta? Besides I never said this is what I run or this is the best build. This isn't theory crafting at all. I'm just trying to illustrate my original point that having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options.
There are certain situations where DK healers excel. They are a viable option. Ebon weapons are, technical an option, however they're a bad one. Personally, if I'm a DPS in a dungeon, I'd much rather have a DK healer who knows what they're doing, to a Warden tank who eschews meta because they don't understand it, and proceeds to maul everyone for 1200 health every time they switch bars.
Hell, I would rather have a Warden tank who runs Oblivion's Edge Jewelry and weapons, to one that breaks Ebon on every bar swap. You're playing tag with the boss, you don't need to start cutting yourself in order to proc Maturation.
Might one to go re-read that post you’re arguing about.
Let's see... "...having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options." Not good ones.
Look, legitimately, it's your bank space, you want to waste it, that's up to you. But unless you're specifically advocating having a 4pc Ebon, without the 5pc at all, breaking on a bar swap, it is simply a bad idea. You're throwing around ideas like using that brief tick to proc maturation, like there's viable reasons you wouldn't want your party at full health... which, no.
You're deliberately breaking the potential for SPC to proc. If your healer's running that, I'm sure they'll love you for your, "outside the box," thinking there.
You're arguing with the wrong person. Lol. That person agrees with you that you shouldn't run Ebon on weapons.
You should be arguing with me.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Health regen doesn't matter in this case because you're not actually taking damage when the tank bar swaps. If I haveMaura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.
Well I didn't think I would of have to spell it out for you ( since you knew what you were talking about when it came to that other posters comment about health regen) but I guess I was wrong. The criteria are:
1: 5-1-1
2: Lose the least amount of armor.
3: Monster set.
(Unwritten but should be obvious) 4: Two 5 piece sets.
A build that meets all the above criteria would be:
2 piece monster set (one medium one heavy)
5 piece alteration mastery ( belt, 3 jewelry, shield) or (belt, 3 jewelry, one handed weapon)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, gloves, boots, and either sword or shield)
Now since this is using dropped sets that only come in a specific armor you lose a little more having the medium piece on your shoulders or helm. Alternatively you could use a dropped set that comes in all armor weights like Bahrahas curse.
2 piece monster set (Both heavy)
5 piece Bahrahas curse ( light belt, 3 jewelry, medium gloves)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, boots, sword and shield)
So... off the wall, non-meta, non 6-degrees of Kevin Bacon from meta, AKA what I just said. Specify so you are not sending poor noobs of into oblivion. Divines knows its hard enough finding good tanks, even when they have all the right information.
By the way Desert Rose is 100× better selfish tank set up than Alteration Mastery, and means you can run Ebon body with 1 Ebon jewelry and just shell out the gold for the weapons. Use all that gold you earned on the 100 CoH unless farm runs.
"Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THATs impressive" Isnt it ironic that DK healer is lecturing me about non-meta? Besides I never said this is what I run or this is the best build. This isn't theory crafting at all. I'm just trying to illustrate my original point that having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options.
There are certain situations where DK healers excel. They are a viable option. Ebon weapons are, technical an option, however they're a bad one. Personally, if I'm a DPS in a dungeon, I'd much rather have a DK healer who knows what they're doing, to a Warden tank who eschews meta because they don't understand it, and proceeds to maul everyone for 1200 health every time they switch bars.
Hell, I would rather have a Warden tank who runs Oblivion's Edge Jewelry and weapons, to one that breaks Ebon on every bar swap. You're playing tag with the boss, you don't need to start cutting yourself in order to proc Maturation.
Might one to go re-read that post you’re arguing about.
Let's see... "...having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options." Not good ones.
Look, legitimately, it's your bank space, you want to waste it, that's up to you. But unless you're specifically advocating having a 4pc Ebon, without the 5pc at all, breaking on a bar swap, it is simply a bad idea. You're throwing around ideas like using that brief tick to proc maturation, like there's viable reasons you wouldn't want your party at full health... which, no.
You're deliberately breaking the potential for SPC to proc. If your healer's running that, I'm sure they'll love you for your, "outside the box," thinking there.
You're arguing with the wrong person. Lol. That person agrees with you that you shouldn't run Ebon on weapons.
You should be arguing with me.
*Is baffled; loses track of user names; starts devouring the unwary and squirrels.*1 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Health regen doesn't matter in this case because you're not actually taking damage when the tank bar swaps. If I haveMaura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.
Well I didn't think I would of have to spell it out for you ( since you knew what you were talking about when it came to that other posters comment about health regen) but I guess I was wrong. The criteria are:
1: 5-1-1
2: Lose the least amount of armor.
3: Monster set.
(Unwritten but should be obvious) 4: Two 5 piece sets.
A build that meets all the above criteria would be:
2 piece monster set (one medium one heavy)
5 piece alteration mastery ( belt, 3 jewelry, shield) or (belt, 3 jewelry, one handed weapon)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, gloves, boots, and either sword or shield)
Now since this is using dropped sets that only come in a specific armor you lose a little more having the medium piece on your shoulders or helm. Alternatively you could use a dropped set that comes in all armor weights like Bahrahas curse.
2 piece monster set (Both heavy)
5 piece Bahrahas curse ( light belt, 3 jewelry, medium gloves)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, boots, sword and shield)
So... off the wall, non-meta, non 6-degrees of Kevin Bacon from meta, AKA what I just said. Specify so you are not sending poor noobs of into oblivion. Divines knows its hard enough finding good tanks, even when they have all the right information.
By the way Desert Rose is 100× better selfish tank set up than Alteration Mastery, and means you can run Ebon body with 1 Ebon jewelry and just shell out the gold for the weapons. Use all that gold you earned on the 100 CoH unless farm runs.
"Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THATs impressive" Isnt it ironic that DK healer is lecturing me about non-meta? Besides I never said this is what I run or this is the best build. This isn't theory crafting at all. I'm just trying to illustrate my original point that having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options.
There are certain situations where DK healers excel. They are a viable option. Ebon weapons are, technical an option, however they're a bad one. Personally, if I'm a DPS in a dungeon, I'd much rather have a DK healer who knows what they're doing, to a Warden tank who eschews meta because they don't understand it, and proceeds to maul everyone for 1200 health every time they switch bars.
Hell, I would rather have a Warden tank who runs Oblivion's Edge Jewelry and weapons, to one that breaks Ebon on every bar swap. You're playing tag with the boss, you don't need to start cutting yourself in order to proc Maturation.
Might one to go re-read that post you’re arguing about.
Let's see... "...having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options." Not good ones.
Look, legitimately, it's your bank space, you want to waste it, that's up to you. But unless you're specifically advocating having a 4pc Ebon, without the 5pc at all, breaking on a bar swap, it is simply a bad idea. You're throwing around ideas like using that brief tick to proc maturation, like there's viable reasons you wouldn't want your party at full health... which, no.
You're deliberately breaking the potential for SPC to proc. If your healer's running that, I'm sure they'll love you for your, "outside the box," thinking there.
Again, you might one to re-read that post, because Primsatic is how I proc Maturation. Ebon is a trash set, I only have it because QQing from Daisy pushing DPS
Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Health regen doesn't matter in this case because you're not actually taking damage when the tank bar swaps. If I haveMaura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.
Well I didn't think I would of have to spell it out for you ( since you knew what you were talking about when it came to that other posters comment about health regen) but I guess I was wrong. The criteria are:
1: 5-1-1
2: Lose the least amount of armor.
3: Monster set.
(Unwritten but should be obvious) 4: Two 5 piece sets.
A build that meets all the above criteria would be:
2 piece monster set (one medium one heavy)
5 piece alteration mastery ( belt, 3 jewelry, shield) or (belt, 3 jewelry, one handed weapon)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, gloves, boots, and either sword or shield)
Now since this is using dropped sets that only come in a specific armor you lose a little more having the medium piece on your shoulders or helm. Alternatively you could use a dropped set that comes in all armor weights like Bahrahas curse.
2 piece monster set (Both heavy)
5 piece Bahrahas curse ( light belt, 3 jewelry, medium gloves)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, boots, sword and shield)
So... off the wall, non-meta, non 6-degrees of Kevin Bacon from meta, AKA what I just said. Specify so you are not sending poor noobs of into oblivion. Divines knows its hard enough finding good tanks, even when they have all the right information.
By the way Desert Rose is 100× better selfish tank set up than Alteration Mastery, and means you can run Ebon body with 1 Ebon jewelry and just shell out the gold for the weapons. Use all that gold you earned on the 100 CoH unless farm runs.
"Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THATs impressive" Isnt it ironic that DK healer is lecturing me about non-meta? Besides I never said this is what I run or this is the best build. This isn't theory crafting at all. I'm just trying to illustrate my original point that having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options.
There are certain situations where DK healers excel. They are a viable option. Ebon weapons are, technical an option, however they're a bad one. Personally, if I'm a DPS in a dungeon, I'd much rather have a DK healer who knows what they're doing, to a Warden tank who eschews meta because they don't understand it, and proceeds to maul everyone for 1200 health every time they switch bars.
Hell, I would rather have a Warden tank who runs Oblivion's Edge Jewelry and weapons, to one that breaks Ebon on every bar swap. You're playing tag with the boss, you don't need to start cutting yourself in order to proc Maturation.
Might one to go re-read that post you’re arguing about.
Let's see... "...having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options." Not good ones.
Look, legitimately, it's your bank space, you want to waste it, that's up to you. But unless you're specifically advocating having a 4pc Ebon, without the 5pc at all, breaking on a bar swap, it is simply a bad idea. You're throwing around ideas like using that brief tick to proc maturation, like there's viable reasons you wouldn't want your party at full health... which, no.
You're deliberately breaking the potential for SPC to proc. If your healer's running that, I'm sure they'll love you for your, "outside the box," thinking there.
Again, you might one to re-read that post, because Primsatic is how I proc Maturation. Ebon is a trash set, I only have it because QQing from Daisy pushing DPS
Yeah, there's basically no way to avoid taking a ding when you're swapping a shield out anyway, so yeah, no harm there.
I'm still, kinda, on the fence for how I feel about Maturation in general. I mean, it's there, cool, we have it, but I'm still not sure I'd call it "good."0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Health regen doesn't matter in this case because you're not actually taking damage when the tank bar swaps. If I haveMaura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Holy people...starkerealm wrote: »Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »Got a sturdy one last week in COH1 normal, though like someone else mentioned, not planning on using it because of the bar swap bug.
I pretty sure that the bug was fixed ages ago (almost a year ago).
Might be wrong and don't have any official patch note or statement regarding this.
It's not fixed. I wasn't messing around with Ebon, but other sets that exhibit the same behavior... still exhibit the same behavior. The only difference is Ebon dings everyone in your party, instead of just you.
Incidentally, I deconned an Ebon shield the other day. Didn't realize they were absurdly rare, and I've already got a full 5pc Ebon/Plague Doctor setup golded out, using Asylum weapons.
Ebon used to NOT work at all on the back bar when on weapons. THAT is fixed.starkerealm wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »So I did some investigation of the bar swap issue and I can confirm that group members health does drop if you are using Ebon weapons and shield as you can see in the video below.
https://youtu.be/Ng4BdX_ZjW4
You can see that the health drop by about 1300 and then goes back up. My health however never drops. Also notice that the health does not always go up at the same rate, sometimes it takes a second or two and other times it's almost instant.
In this second video I wanted to see if I could actually kill a group member if they were below 1k health when I bar swapped.
https://youtu.be/CuhOnVXYX10
I slowed the video down so it's very clear. My set up was the same as in the first video 3 Ebon jewelry, sword and board on one bar and DW on the other.
My group members health went down to 185, then it went to 484 (do to health regen) and then I swapped bars. As you can see I could not kill him by swapping bars even though his health was less than 1k.
I propose that this weapon swap bug is not really a major issue. Here is why I say that.
Let's suppose that someone has 17k health and 18k with Ebon. When I weapon swap their health would drop back down to 17k momentarily. At that moment one of three things could happen. 1) they could receive damage for less than 17k in this case they will live. 2) they could receive damage between 17k and 18k in this case they will die. 3) they could receive damage for more than 18k in this case they would die. However they would have died from number 3 anyway even if my Ebon was on only body pieces.
So the only time that it could lead to a group death is if someone is hit for the exact value of their health during the short moment that their health drops when I weapon swap.
So yes it's a bug, and yes it's kind of annoying and will hopefully be fixed at some point in the future, but in my opinion it's not that big of a deal and really shouldn't prevent you from running Ebon on your weapons if that's what's most convenient for your set up.
I counter your "Its not a big deal" with DoTs I can not tell you the number of times that I as a tank have had a death recap of 20K(x6), 6K, 3K, 15k, 600. That one tick of this or that which finishes me off
You don't lose health when you swap, you lose max health. Meaning if you have 20k max health, and you are at 5k health due to damage taken. You wont lose any more health because of bar swap. Your max health goes down only.
Which means you only risk taking a hit for your full health during barswap that might kill you if you otherwise had 1k more health. Which isn't a realistic scenario, hits that would kill you during barswap dont really matter if your health is 1k higher.
It can ding your max health before you start taking hits though, particularly if a swap occurs mid combat. Your health regen will already be lowered for in combat, you lose 1.2k health, then you take lethal damage that would have been survivable without that extra bit. Compound this with the fact that many DPS intentionally run very close to the vet one shot threshold, meaning they actually need that health to survive a hit from the boss, and it goes from "statistically improbable" to, "happens more than you'd expect."
Ebon effects your max heath NOT regen AT ALL. So why are you talking about regen?
EBON EFFECTS MAX HEALTH NOT YOUR CURRENT HEALTH meaning the only thing running Ebon on the weapons does any more, is make it so you won’t survive a 17000k hit when you have 16500k health without Ebon. If you have 70564 health and the tank bar swaps, you will still have 70564 health at the start, mid bar swap, and at the end of the swap. AND no one cares about regen, cause everyone is a vampire and Healers.
So the only reason to give a S*** about Ebon weapons anymore is because there are way better tanking sets to wear that aren’t Heavy armor. So your are limiting your ability to run meta Ebon/Alkosh, or off tank sets like Powerful Assualt, Werewolf’s Hide etc.
if you don’t care about that level of tanking, or are trying to run a max health build then go for it. Better than Plague Weapons, and losing Plagues 5 piece bonus for half a second.
One reason you may want to have Ebon weapons is if you want to run 5-1-1 and lose the least amount of armor while also using a monster set. Having Ebon weapons opens up more combinations and possibilities with builds.
Exactly which set do you need so bad that you cait run Ebon body? Only a health tank build with Plague. That it, otherwise just run your pure set. Alkosh, Torug's, Dragon Gaurd, Lunar, Yokudan, lmperrum, Baston, Werewolf. Do you actually tank? Do you actually theory craft. Why are you talking about 5-1-1. If its on your weapons it wont count. Are you trying to run Ebon on your Healer and keep 5 light? If you use a monster set, there's your 5-1-1. If you are talking about some specific build say so, otherwise you are spreading bad information.
Yes they do drop, I've had three over the time. I've also destroyed them all.
Well I didn't think I would of have to spell it out for you ( since you knew what you were talking about when it came to that other posters comment about health regen) but I guess I was wrong. The criteria are:
1: 5-1-1
2: Lose the least amount of armor.
3: Monster set.
(Unwritten but should be obvious) 4: Two 5 piece sets.
A build that meets all the above criteria would be:
2 piece monster set (one medium one heavy)
5 piece alteration mastery ( belt, 3 jewelry, shield) or (belt, 3 jewelry, one handed weapon)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, gloves, boots, and either sword or shield)
Now since this is using dropped sets that only come in a specific armor you lose a little more having the medium piece on your shoulders or helm. Alternatively you could use a dropped set that comes in all armor weights like Bahrahas curse.
2 piece monster set (Both heavy)
5 piece Bahrahas curse ( light belt, 3 jewelry, medium gloves)
5 piece Ebon ( chest, legs, boots, sword and shield)
So... off the wall, non-meta, non 6-degrees of Kevin Bacon from meta, AKA what I just said. Specify so you are not sending poor noobs of into oblivion. Divines knows its hard enough finding good tanks, even when they have all the right information.
By the way Desert Rose is 100× better selfish tank set up than Alteration Mastery, and means you can run Ebon body with 1 Ebon jewelry and just shell out the gold for the weapons. Use all that gold you earned on the 100 CoH unless farm runs.
"Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THATs impressive" Isnt it ironic that DK healer is lecturing me about non-meta? Besides I never said this is what I run or this is the best build. This isn't theory crafting at all. I'm just trying to illustrate my original point that having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options.
There are certain situations where DK healers excel. They are a viable option. Ebon weapons are, technical an option, however they're a bad one. Personally, if I'm a DPS in a dungeon, I'd much rather have a DK healer who knows what they're doing, to a Warden tank who eschews meta because they don't understand it, and proceeds to maul everyone for 1200 health every time they switch bars.
Hell, I would rather have a Warden tank who runs Oblivion's Edge Jewelry and weapons, to one that breaks Ebon on every bar swap. You're playing tag with the boss, you don't need to start cutting yourself in order to proc Maturation.
Might one to go re-read that post you’re arguing about.
Let's see... "...having Ebon weapons and shields opens up more options." Not good ones.
Look, legitimately, it's your bank space, you want to waste it, that's up to you. But unless you're specifically advocating having a 4pc Ebon, without the 5pc at all, breaking on a bar swap, it is simply a bad idea. You're throwing around ideas like using that brief tick to proc maturation, like there's viable reasons you wouldn't want your party at full health... which, no.
You're deliberately breaking the potential for SPC to proc. If your healer's running that, I'm sure they'll love you for your, "outside the box," thinking there.
Again, you might one to re-read that post, because Primsatic is how I proc Maturation. Ebon is a trash set, I only have it because QQing from Daisy pushing DPS
Yeah, there's basically no way to avoid taking a ding when you're swapping a shield out anyway, so yeah, no harm there.
I'm still, kinda, on the fence for how I feel about Maturation in general. I mean, it's there, cool, we have it, but I'm still not sure I'd call it "good."
Its 10% extra health with 100% uptime on the Warden themself. Sure if you have a perfect War Horn rotation it doesn't matter, still that is the 5 piece bonus to an armor set for free. I wouldn't say its OP but its a passive always worth spending a point in. In comparison Glacial Presence and Piercing cold have no value at all on a Stamina Warden.
If you dont run Prismatic (or health glyph) than your healt wont move. Might not move if you have Prismatic on both shields. I'm not sure since l back bar a Frost StaffEdited by Maura_Neysa on March 14, 2018 12:16AMMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0
