WW mechanisms

daedalusAI

Just finished farming to lvl 10 werewolf and dug through several sites and posts chasing for answers - but I was left unsatisfied.

Transformation

• is the physical damage I deal after being transformed affected in any way according to my weapon bar used - e.g. 2h giving me more than dual wield?
• how strong are those 2 wolves if I go pack leader?
• is there a reason why spamming light attacks is doing more damage than charging up heavy attacks?

Howl of Despair(Morph from Piercing Howl)

• is that synergy only possible with allies activating it - or can I activate it myself while playing solo?

After seeing the abilities and possible morphs I'm somewhat disappointed:

• Pounce as a gap closer doing less damage than critical charge from 2h and the morphs are lackluster at best.
• Hircine's Rage as morph from hircine's bounty doesn't look too bad on paper considering you are locked into the ww bar for the time of the transformation and no real way to buff yourself while playing solo.
• No idea why I should think about roar: why would I need an ability that has a fear effect as the base functionality and not as a possible morph? The only good thing could be rousing roar for the 20% weapon damage for 4 sec - but keeping that up seems pretty expensive.
• Howl of despair as morph from piercing howl could be interesting if I can buff myself as asked above.
• Infectious claws look pretty good.

If you look at ww it's a mixture of dots and auto-attack meaning pounce, roar (and maybe piercing howl if I cant activate the synergy myself) don't really fit into that either due to lack of damage, lack of a proper sustainable buffs or just plain useless(fear).

And the 300ultimate cost for either morph doesn't make it better.

Vampire isn't forced into something so static because you can mix vampire abilities with the other skill lines.

Either the werewolf abilities need more tweaking to justify forcing me into a single weapon bar - or there should be a somewhat limited possibility to get a few skills from other weapon lines.

daedalusAI

It seems there aren't many old wolves around.

danno8

Rousing Roar (+20% Weapon Damage + Fear) ---> Howl of Agony (30% more damage to feared opponents) is the burst staple for werewolves.

Liberal use of heavy attacks since they return 20% stamina (I believe 10% is base, passive boosts this 100%), and all the skills are very expensive.

You can't activate your own synergies in this game.

Werewolf would be more fun if there wasn't a timer involved, at least while you are in combat IMO.

DocFrost72

As someone who tinkered with the idea of werewolf DD and Werewolf tank, maybe I can explain some things for you.

Weapons USED TO (have not checked for a few patches) informative of your damage in werewolf form, making it smart to put it on your main bar.

Pack leader adds are very weak, but with sets like the hunt set (Orsinium or MA) they can serve as sources of sustainability and even self healing.

Light attacks bleed, so you may notice more damage spamming them. The ideal rotation is actually piercing howl and light attack to perpetually bleed while doing great damage.

Howl of despair requires teammates, like any synergy.

Pounce has two very important uses that make up for lower damage. One morph adds time in WW form, which can be killer if you're low. The other morph deals AoE damage, making it an AoE taunt when used alongside the tormentor set.

Hircine'Hircine's rage is EPIC since it is not a major/minor. Flat 10% more, 28 when considering the savage strength passive. Not a bad burst heal in PvE.

Roar onto piercing howl x2 is GG against potatoes in cyrodiil, and definately scrambles even the most prepared foes. Don't forget your bleed.

Claws of life > infectious for pve, as defile isn't as good as a steady prevention of health loss.

High cost can be really good for DKs or those using the witchman's sets, as it returns a LOT of resources. Otherwise yeah, it's big bUT with reason.

What I recommend to you is to build a full resource management build and habe a DK to pop igneous weapons for you. 20 for igneous + 5 for the passive +28 from hircine's rage and savage strength brings you to an insane 53% damage increase, and even more if you use howl on a feared target. You can hot really crazy numbers this way. Potions help a lot too.

Some fun facts: werewolves can be tanks (or could, haven't checked out if they stopped pounce and tormentor) because they receive a whopping 10k increase to armor at all times. Add to that an extra 3k stam.

Werewolves are a bit like heavy armor bruisers in concept. If you're getting hit every 3 seconds, you never come out of wolf form and don't have to feed. This is more pronounced when more than one wolf is present (considering the cost of time is less).

Wolves are very, VERY fun and pretty well balanced at the moment, and I am going to eventually test tormentor for a werewolf tank build.

daedalusAI

danno8 wrote: »

Rousing Roar (+20% Weapon Damage + Fear) ---> Howl of Agony (30% more damage to feared opponents) is the burst staple for werewolves.

Liberal use of heavy attacks since they return 20% stamina (I believe 10% is base, passive boosts this 100%), and all the skills are very expensive.

You can't activate your own synergies in this game.

Werewolf would be more fun if there wasn't a timer involved, at least while you are in combat IMO.

I did overlook that skill combination of roar into howl.
But if howl wouldn't offer that 30% damage vs. feared opponents roar would be pretty useless.

Yeah heavy attacks for stamina return: but that doesn't really explain why a fully charged heavy attack does less than just spamming light attacks.

I thought the synergy werewolf could be an exception seeing how lackluster the whole kit it - but that means for solo play you are forced into rousing roar and howl of agony for the damage because on their own they are rather mediocre at best.

I wouldn't mind being forced into 1 weapon bar for the duration as long as the few skills and morphs provided justify it.

daedalusAI

DocFrost72 wrote: »

As someone who tinkered with the idea of werewolf DD and Werewolf tank, maybe I can explain some things for you.

Weapons USED TO (have not checked for a few patches) informative of your damage in werewolf form, making it smart to put it on your main bar.

Pack leader adds are very weak, but with sets like the hunt set (Orsinium or MA) they can serve as sources of sustainability and even self healing.

Light attacks bleed, so you may notice more damage spamming them. The ideal rotation is actually piercing howl and light attack to perpetually bleed while doing great damage.

Howl of despair requires teammates, like any synergy.

Pounce has two very important uses that make up for lower damage. One morph adds time in WW form, which can be killer if you're low. The other morph deals AoE damage, making it an AoE taunt when used alongside the tormentor set.

Hircine'Hircine's rage is EPIC since it is not a major/minor. Flat 10% more, 28 when considering the savage strength passive. Not a bad burst heal in PvE.

Roar onto piercing howl x2 is GG against potatoes in cyrodiil, and definately scrambles even the most prepared foes. Don't forget your bleed.

Claws of life > infectious for pve, as defile isn't as good as a steady prevention of health loss.

High cost can be really good for DKs or those using the witchman's sets, as it returns a LOT of resources. Otherwise yeah, it's big bUT with reason.

What I recommend to you is to build a full resource management build and habe a DK to pop igneous weapons for you. 20 for igneous + 5 for the passive +28 from hircine's rage and savage strength brings you to an insane 53% damage increase, and even more if you use howl on a feared target. You can hot really crazy numbers this way. Potions help a lot too.

Some fun facts: werewolves can be tanks (or could, haven't checked out if they stopped pounce and tormentor) because they receive a whopping 10k increase to armor at all times. Add to that an extra 3k stam.

Werewolves are a bit like heavy armor bruisers in concept. If you're getting hit every 3 seconds, you never come out of wolf form and don't have to feed. This is more pronounced when more than one wolf is present (considering the cost of time is less).

Wolves are very, VERY fun and pretty well balanced at the moment, and I am going to eventually test tormentor for a werewolf tank build.

Transformation itself only displays the magnitude of the bleed and the amount of resistances you get while transformed.

I secretly hoped for the pack leader adds to somewhat be on the level of sorc pets - but I guess I have to try them out myself to evaluate them.

Pounce is weak for pure aoe damage as it's only about 1,7k aoe and about 3,4k damage to the main target.
The ultimate return morph grants 1 ultimate if you pounce from 10m away or more - meaning you jump once to start a fight and stay in melee to unleash the rest of your kit and you won't be running back to just being able to pounce once more.

Yeah I do agree the flat 10% weapon damage from hircine's rage is good.

Still can't get along with roar and howl: roar on itself does nothing but fearing enemies. With the rousing morph you can get major brutality for 4sec for a hefty price of 3,6k stamina per roar. The only real benefit of even using roar is the combination with howl of agony for the added 30% damage vs. feared enemies for solo - and maybe howl of despair for group play.

Didn't look into sets etc. because I just came back not even 2 weeks ago.

Yeah I noticed while leveling werewolf to 10 that keeping the transformation up isn't really difficult - but that I can't save up ultimate while being transformed and once I'm out of it have to gather 300 ultimate is somewhat unpleasant to put it that way.

starkerealm

DocFrost72 wrote: »

As someone who tinkered with the idea of werewolf DD and Werewolf tank, maybe I can explain some things for you.

Weapons USED TO (have not checked for a few patches) informative of your damage in werewolf form, making it smart to put it on your main bar.

Pack leader adds are very weak, but with sets like the hunt set (Orsinium or MA) they can serve as sources of sustainability and even self healing.

Yeah, this is something that's really important to understand about high level werewolf play. Your gear does still apply while transformed. So if you have sword and board and transform, you'll keep the additional armor from your shield (before the multiplier is applied, I think), but your weapon damage will be lower. If you're running DW, you'll have your weapon damage carried over (again, before the multiplier is applied.)

If you have a set, that will still function while transformed. So while something like Ashen Grip isn't good, it is highly amusing, whenever your werewolf belches fire in combat.

Now, that said, I haven't been doing much on Werewolves since moving imposed a temporary break for me with the game. So, this stuff might have changed since 1T dropped.

daedalusAI

starkerealm wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

As someone who tinkered with the idea of werewolf DD and Werewolf tank, maybe I can explain some things for you.

Weapons USED TO (have not checked for a few patches) informative of your damage in werewolf form, making it smart to put it on your main bar.

Pack leader adds are very weak, but with sets like the hunt set (Orsinium or MA) they can serve as sources of sustainability and even self healing.

Yeah, this is something that's really important to understand about high level werewolf play. Your gear does still apply while transformed. So if you have sword and board and transform, you'll keep the additional armor from your shield (before the multiplier is applied, I think), but your weapon damage will be lower. If you're running DW, you'll have your weapon damage carried over (again, before the multiplier is applied.)

If you have a set, that will still function while transformed. So while something like Ashen Grip isn't good, it is highly amusing, whenever your werewolf belches fire in combat.

Now, that said, I haven't been doing much on Werewolves since moving imposed a temporary break for me with the game. So, this stuff might have changed since 1T dropped.

That used to is the problem: I couldn't find any updated info for ww and thus the thread.

TankHealz2015

Werewolf build plan:

5 Hulking armor (all + stamina/ drops in Direfrost Keep dungeon)
5 Salvation jewelry +weapons (-30% cost to transform into Werewolf)

2 Monster helm... not sure which one... maybe the +damage set (?)

Probably Bar 1: dual wield and Bar 2: 1hand/shield

Should I equip poisons on the weapons? (I've never used the poisons, but I've got tons in the bank)

Mostly for regular PvE playing (not dungeons) and perhaps messing around in the Imperial City.

Thoughts?

daedalusAI

I'd prefer some official input about the current ww mechanisms before speculating about builds/sets.

daedalusAI

Meh no one can provide me with the information I desire.

Fischblut

I was in werewolf form most of time during April-May. I did all possible and not possible things as beast (or at least tried to do ). As much as I love being beast for it's primal simplicity, I rarely transform since Dark Brotherhood patch Being in werewolf form is amusing, but it's much worse than being in human form and have access to interesting skills, shields and good ultimates. Werewolf is pure melee playstyle, it's also very limiting. And constant paying attention to timer, very stressful. I will never cure my beasts, in hope that someday at least timer will be removed.

Feeding Frenzy can only be activated by your allies and only if they are in human form - werewolves can't activate synergies (and revive fallen allies) Weird morph...

For PvE, use only Claws of Life - just don't forget to refresh it each few seconds if the fight is tough

Pack Leader morph is now awful in my opinion. It's good if you simply like how those pet wolves look. They are just a bit annoying, and if in pvp, you can absolutely ignore pets and their damage, you should concentrate only on their owner

Your weapon damage from your weapons is transferred to werewolf form and is increased by WW passives, but no weapon passives work in werewolf form. You won't get Twin Blade and Blunt, or Battle Rush, or blocking passives from 1h+S... But weapon traits+enchants and armor passives work in ww form.

Basically, if you decide to transform into werewolf now: you lose all guild passives, all weapon passives, passive bonuses from any slotted skills if you had them. You still have your armor sets bonuses, passives from armor skill lines, permanent passives from your class like additional resistance of templar/dk, and ..you still have all your crafting passives

daedalusAI

Fischblut wrote: »

I was in werewolf form most of time during April-May. I did all possible and not possible things as beast (or at least tried to do ). As much as I love being beast for it's primal simplicity, I rarely transform since Dark Brotherhood patch Being in werewolf form is amusing, but it's much worse than being in human form and have access to interesting skills, shields and good ultimates. Werewolf is pure melee playstyle, it's also very limiting. And constant paying attention to timer, very stressful. I will never cure my beasts, in hope that someday at least timer will be removed.

Feeding Frenzy can only be activated by your allies and only if they are in human form - werewolves can't activate synergies (and revive fallen allies) Weird morph...

For PvE, use only Claws of Life - just don't forget to refresh it each few seconds if the fight is tough

Pack Leader morph is now awful in my opinion. It's good if you simply like how those pet wolves look. They are just a bit annoying, and if in pvp, you can absolutely ignore pets and their damage, you should concentrate only on their owner

Your weapon damage from your weapons is transferred to werewolf form and is increased by WW passives, but no weapon passives work in werewolf form. You won't get Twin Blade and Blunt, or Battle Rush, or blocking passives from 1h+S... But weapon traits+enchants and armor passives work in ww form.

Basically, if you decide to transform into werewolf now: you lose all guild passives, all weapon passives, passive bonuses from any slotted skills if you had them. You still have your armor sets bonuses, passives from armor skill lines, permanent passives from your class like additional resistance of templar/dk, and ..you still have all your crafting passives

Thanks.
The question is if your information is still viable today if you did your testing earlier this year.

Sou_rou

Before One Tamriel, I WWed my dual-wielding NB. Weapon enchants were definitely working. Fire enchant on one of the daggers is kind of obvious when it hits. I haven't tried to analyze all the rest, but I suspect they've changed very little on WW since Fischblut's testing.

RouDeR

Since One Tamriel came out on console , I use werewolf as my primary DUEL ulti .
It is the most powerful ultimate that you can use , however it is costy , that's why its preferable to be Sorc for the 15% ulticost redc.
In terms of Armor the choice to be the dominating Werewolf is only one -
BLACK ROSE heavy armor 5 pieces (primary set)
Monster set : Malubeth (the cancer set to amplify our heal)
and for best stats results 2 piece Endurance and 3 Piece agility


You need to use Sword and Board its the best choice since the Shield give you 3000 armor ,250 critresist( impen ench ofc )
And Stats.

Werewolf needs a lot of stats to be effective , not just weapon damage , so this is why you MUST enchant all of your big pieces and shield with 3-stat enchants.

On my Redguard Stamsorco when in WW form i have 33k+ resists , 4000+ WPD(with heavy armor bonuses)
31 000 Health , 45 000 Stam , 16 000 Magica , 2900 crit resists .

With this setup i have more than 200 duels and only 3 lost of them .
In terms of fighting i can give you advice how not to run out of Stam - do not use your Fear How combo without the benefit from Unchained , you must wait the opponent to CC you , break free and than spam the combo with some light attacks , Save your stamina for BLOCKING when pressured , this is the recipe to successfully fight in werewolf

Wolfchild07

DocFrost72 wrote: »

The other morph deals AoE damage, making it an AoE taunt when used alongside the tormentor set.

Wolves are very, VERY fun and pretty well balanced at the moment, and I am going to eventually test tormentor for a werewolf tank build.

Werewolf pounce is not considered a charge attack. Others have stated that it does not work with the Tormentor set. If your testing shows otherwise, then maybe it's been changed/fixed. If not, then werewolf tanks still have no way to taunt.