Scaling killed the game (for me)

Vaoh

ElBiggus wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

It did not kill the game it is in fact good for the overall health of the game.

I'm unconvinced. One, if you have the patience you can now reach CP600 without ever leaving your starting island. Two, you could complete every quest, run every dungeon, complete all the trials with one hand tied behind your back, and still be in danger of being killed by a mudcrab on the starting island. To me, both of those possibilities just existing immediately makes the game less appealing.

I soloed Vet White Gold Tower. So on the other hand, that same player who was threatened by a mudcrab can solo Molag Kena and The Planar Inhibitor

Just the possibility of that happening is awesome imo.

I think you need to look at the goal of One Tamriel, and what its done for ESO. The game has gotten much better with this patch.

My only issue atm is with PvP. Severely imbalanced atm.

Clutch

xRIVALENx wrote: »

I can understand your view, there is really no goal to work towards when your characters power stays relatively the same from level 1 through 50. The game ultimately becomes stale unless you really enjoy the questing and exploration.

Honestly this was a much needed change to push the game in the direction they originally wanted, the Elder Scrolls experience.

Bobby_V_Rockit

For some reason, the 1T update reduced my stam regen by 100, and thats AFTER adding 10 more cp points to mooncalf...

daedalusAI

Milicent wrote: »

It feels more "TES" now, I just love that.

And also, I like the fact that now it actually takes time to kill a mob, our characters aren't like the other TES' super heroes characters that basically can one shot everything. Sounds silly but it's more realistic now.

If I would go by your logic there should be no possibility to have more cp than the base scaling of 160cp - because if there is you will 1-shot everything as you reach 200cp+ which is the current reality.

hmsdragonfly

Hallothiel wrote: »

@hmsdragonfly

Not all crafters actually sell their mats - some craft for free / donations, especially for guild mates.

And I do like a challenge. But not sure battle scaling in this way is going to really be one.

But can't really tell as yet as am still waiting for the damn thing to download....

Yeah now if someone wants you to craft something for them, they have to buy mats/farm mats themselves. A crafter is not really affected much. I don't think it's a huge deal though.

hmsdragonfly

lordrichter wrote: »

Actually, doesn't sound like you do. The root of my issue is that crafting is out of sync with the rest of the game, and all they did for One Tamriel is remove part of the crafting game play. Crafting needs to be fixed, and when they do that, they can restore that game play.

OK I see your points now. You can't farm mats for others, you can only farm mats for yourself. This can be tweaked, you should make a new thread about it so people can discuss about it and ZOS can know about your points, commenting here ain't helping. Make sure to underline the issue "Problem in crafting since One Tamriel".

lordrichter wrote: »

You aren't supposed to kill the giants easily.

The feeling of progression has to do wiith the ability to return to a place of failure when stronger. The first time you encounter The Troll on the way to High Hrothgar, for example. Yes, you can stay there until you beat him. You likely did not beat him the first time. Alternately you can go around, and come back later, when you can beat him. Skyrim does this better than ESO because the scaling does not attempt to make sure that you are always matched with The Troll.

As for Morrowind, you noticed that I did not mention it, but I am glad you did. Morrowind is where ESO came from, prior to the scaled DLC zones. Not what I am suggesting.

Yeah, then what they need to do is making a minimum level for Trolls/Giants or some sort of scary creatures. If I understand your point correctly it will fix your issue with feeling of progression. Other creatures should be scaled. This is a good idea you should make a thread about it.

hmsdragonfly

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

It killed this game but I dont think I'm saying that in the way most are.

Dungeons have become a hell where I must be eliteist because most dont have the DPS to finish them anymore. It's become idiotic.

This game suffers from the Devs doing things without realizing the consequences of their actions. First softcaps, now scaling, now the dungeon buffs. They are out of touch with their own game and the wants of the playerbase at large.

The scaling in dungeon is really off right now, it doesn't scale well. The problem is not because there's scaling, it's because it doesn't scale well. It's something ZOS have to fix.

daedalusAI

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Actually, doesn't sound like you do. The root of my issue is that crafting is out of sync with the rest of the game, and all they did for One Tamriel is remove part of the crafting game play. Crafting needs to be fixed, and when they do that, they can restore that game play.

OK I see your points now. You can't farm mats for others, you can only farm mats for yourself. This can be tweaked, you should make a new thread about it so people can discuss about it and ZOS can know about your points, commenting here ain't helping. Make sure to underline the issue "Problem in crafting since One Tamriel".

lordrichter wrote: »

You aren't supposed to kill the giants easily.

The feeling of progression has to do wiith the ability to return to a place of failure when stronger. The first time you encounter The Troll on the way to High Hrothgar, for example. Yes, you can stay there until you beat him. You likely did not beat him the first time. Alternately you can go around, and come back later, when you can beat him. Skyrim does this better than ESO because the scaling does not attempt to make sure that you are always matched with The Troll.

As for Morrowind, you noticed that I did not mention it, but I am glad you did. Morrowind is where ESO came from, prior to the scaled DLC zones. Not what I am suggesting.

Yeah, then what they need to do is making a minimum level for Trolls/Giants or some sort of scary creatures. If I understand your point correctly it will fix your issue with feeling of progression. Other creatures should be scaled. This is a good idea you should make a thread about it.

I doubt you understand him correctly.
The feeling of progression which I share with him is no longer present: everything is scaled to 160cp meaning a mudcrab in a starter area is still as difficult for me being lvl 1 as it is with lvl 49 - this feeling of being a powerful character is no longer present when you run around with your big spells and eradicate whole low-level areas.

That feeling of progression only returns when your character has more than the 160cp of the world scaling: in that case you really feel progression because now you can almost 1-shot whole groups of enemies because you outscale them - something that is now impossible for everyone below 160cp due to the scaling.

hmsdragonfly

Elvira wrote: »

As for me... And hope/chance this automatic scaling of areas can be TURNED OFF, at least in future? I completely and utterly despise this feature in _any game_. It kills any enjoyment of becoming more powerful. And I believe there are _lot_ of people who feel the same, even if perhaps minority (though I'm not sure even about that :-p)

There's a reason why most people are fine when Bethesda introduce scaling system in Oblivion and Skyrim.
There's also an ongoing argument in TES fanbase (just like in here) about the scaling system. A group of the fanbase wants the game to be like Morrowind, no scaling. So, in the end, you can't please everyone. A group has to be compromised. If they remove the scaling, there will be a huge *** from people who like the scaling. And believe me there are way more of them, just look at the sales of Skyrim.

Asardes

Endgame progression doesn't come from that number that tells you what level you are, it comes mostly from distributing your skill points, training skills and putting them in a rotation, and learning to play that build. 1-50 progression is just a tutorial.

daedalusAI

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Elvira wrote: »

As for me... And hope/chance this automatic scaling of areas can be TURNED OFF, at least in future? I completely and utterly despise this feature in _any game_. It kills any enjoyment of becoming more powerful. And I believe there are _lot_ of people who feel the same, even if perhaps minority (though I'm not sure even about that :-p)

There's a reason why most people are fine when Bethesda introduce scaling system in Oblivion and Skyrim.
There's also an ongoing argument in TES fanbase (just like in here) about the scaling system. A group of the fanbase wants the game to be like Morrowind, no scaling. So, in the end, you can't please everyone. A group has to be compromised. If they remove the scaling, there will be a huge *** from people who like the scaling. And believe me there are way more of them, just look at the sales of Skyrim.

Indeed: you can't please both sides.

But right now you got a system that has scaling for everyone <160cp which means don't feel powerful no matter where you go because everything is scaled to 160cp as a fixed value.

For everyone >160cp the scaling isn't an issue because they out-scale that fixed value easily with plenty of cp.

Which in turn means everyone that doesn't invest time to get above 160cp won't get that "progression and powerful" feeling you get in other games when visiting starter areas in your shiny armor with your god-like spells or paying some old enemy another visit because you had to avoid him earlier when you were a pup.

probablyafk

Today my 50/cp190 sorc was fighting a world boss with 1.8m hitpoints which was tanked by a lvl 12 character.

That was just kinda depressing.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Actually, the game feels a lot easier now. Not sure yet, but feels that way on day 1

Rune_Relic

daedalusAI wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Elvira wrote: »

As for me... And hope/chance this automatic scaling of areas can be TURNED OFF, at least in future? I completely and utterly despise this feature in _any game_. It kills any enjoyment of becoming more powerful. And I believe there are _lot_ of people who feel the same, even if perhaps minority (though I'm not sure even about that :-p)

There's a reason why most people are fine when Bethesda introduce scaling system in Oblivion and Skyrim.
There's also an ongoing argument in TES fanbase (just like in here) about the scaling system. A group of the fanbase wants the game to be like Morrowind, no scaling. So, in the end, you can't please everyone. A group has to be compromised. If they remove the scaling, there will be a huge *** from people who like the scaling. And believe me there are way more of them, just look at the sales of Skyrim.

Indeed: you can't please both sides.

But right now you got a system that has scaling for everyone <160cp which means don't feel powerful no matter where you go because everything is scaled to 160cp as a fixed value.

For everyone >160cp the scaling isn't an issue because they out-scale that fixed value easily with plenty of cp.

Which in turn means everyone that doesn't invest time to get above 160cp won't get that "progression and powerful" feeling you get in other games when visiting starter areas in your shiny armor with your god-like spells or paying some old enemy another visit because you had to avoid him earlier when you were a pup.

Many people don't want faceroll easy godmode......it gets boring when you arent challenged in some way.
How is pressing 111111111 satisfying in any way ?

Its not that I don't understand those who crave power and dominance and want godmode to satisfy their ego.
It just doesn't work in a multiplayer game for all players at the same time.
It definitively doesn't work in a game with PvP.

The only thing you can do is have part time godmode....and the closest we have to that is ultimates and emperor.

crowzub17_ESO

I just want the game I paid for back. The one I was shown in beta and paid for when I bought the imperial edition and I invested all that time in.

I want the game Ive been playing since beta. This new game is not the same game anymore.

I know its not going to happen Im just saying that's how I feel. The scaling is not the same game I paid for. Were not talking some small tweak were talk a fundamental change.

I just honestly wish I could go back and in time and not of wasted my money on this the way it is now and again I know that's just tuff luck. But that's the part the irritates me.

Oh well that's life

crowzub17_ESO

Oh and here is a concept for them to consider. Make it a perk that you can move to another server that runs the old code (non scaling) if your a subscriber. Id gladly pay for that and I imagine a few others would as well.

KaleidoscopeEyz

I love One Tamriel. They breathed life into a dying game. Good job Zos.

daedalusAI

Rune_Relic wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Elvira wrote: »

As for me... And hope/chance this automatic scaling of areas can be TURNED OFF, at least in future? I completely and utterly despise this feature in _any game_. It kills any enjoyment of becoming more powerful. And I believe there are _lot_ of people who feel the same, even if perhaps minority (though I'm not sure even about that :-p)

There's a reason why most people are fine when Bethesda introduce scaling system in Oblivion and Skyrim.
There's also an ongoing argument in TES fanbase (just like in here) about the scaling system. A group of the fanbase wants the game to be like Morrowind, no scaling. So, in the end, you can't please everyone. A group has to be compromised. If they remove the scaling, there will be a huge *** from people who like the scaling. And believe me there are way more of them, just look at the sales of Skyrim.

Indeed: you can't please both sides.

But right now you got a system that has scaling for everyone <160cp which means don't feel powerful no matter where you go because everything is scaled to 160cp as a fixed value.

For everyone >160cp the scaling isn't an issue because they out-scale that fixed value easily with plenty of cp.

Which in turn means everyone that doesn't invest time to get above 160cp won't get that "progression and powerful" feeling you get in other games when visiting starter areas in your shiny armor with your god-like spells or paying some old enemy another visit because you had to avoid him earlier when you were a pup.

Many people don't want faceroll easy godmode......it gets boring when you arent challenged in some way.
How is pressing 111111111 satisfying in any way ?

Its not that I don't understand those who crave power and dominance and want godmode to satisfy their ego.
It just doesn't work in a multiplayer game for all players at the same time.
It definitively doesn't work in a game with PvP.

The only thing you can do is have part time godmode....and the closest we have to that is ultimates and emperor.

That facerolling is still there but is now locked behind the time you have to invest to farm up cp to break through the worldwide scaling of 160cp.
At that point you can still press 111 and destroy your standard landscape mob with ease.

STEVIL

Sardath wrote: »

I really don't understand how people can complain this much on a feature that improves the game to many and takes literally nothing from you.

Well some folks can and have reaped rewards off cases where in the past other players needed help that now 1t is addressing.
EXAMPLE: The changes to 1T will reduce the need for non-crafters to buy mats because not only are scaling sets dropping all over the place but nodes are useful and drops are worth decon. So if you are one who made lotsa profit harvesting gold by selling mats to those characters, you are looking at a change to more self-sufficient sourcing of mats and gear and... everyone else's gain is your loss.

A major rule in marketing a product is to identify "which headache is being relieved by your product" and so anything removing headaches for the vast number of players 1t changes is doing... well... thats just "eliminating opportunities" to certain mindsets.

Also, for some, its not enough to gain unless someone else loses.

gel214thb14_ESO

crowzub17_ESO wrote: »

I just honestly wish I could go back and in time and not of wasted my money on this the way it is now and again I know that's just tuff luck. But that's the part the irritates me.

Oh well that's life

As a long time player I'm assuming you have at least one high level character. In that case, does the scaling affect you? Because even if you start new characters, when you distribute your CP points they will be more effective I think than a newbie, non CP character.

JKith

Overall I think the change is in the correct direction,.. but I do think there should be a slight adjustment.

While yes, everyone is cp160... there should be a small scale of difficulty increase in the harder zones. On starter islands, and the initial zones, they should be easier than in the latter zones.

A Morrowind type experience where you would be killed by a mud crab at level1 may not work, i can understand that,... but I believe the NPC's are a little too equal... a small scale of difficulty would be nice.

Hluill

JKith wrote: »

Overall I think the change is in the correct direction,.. but I do think there should be a slight adjustment.

While yes, everyone is cp160... there should be a small scale of difficulty increase in the harder zones. On starter islands, and the initial zones, they should be easier than in the latter zones.

A Morrowind type experience where you would be killed by a mud crab at level1 may not work, i can understand that,... but I believe the NPC's are a little too equal... a small scale of difficulty would be nice.

With this I agree.

There could even be scaling within zones: mobs, resource nodes and such.

It's not that I hate scaling. I hate that what should be my most powerful character is not. I hate that I am spending way too much time min-maxing gear and not questing and exploring and gathering. I hate that I have less options when picking skills and playstyle.

COFFAN

Here's my issue... I put in time to earn experience and lvl my character up. I would adventure into new areas to fight harder enemies and search for cooler items and explore the awesome landscapes. But, if I ever desired to go back to a lower lvl area, I had earned the right to one hit kill something... and they took that away. I enjoyed leveling up my weapons skills and crafting skills and stealth skills. I really enjoy these games... but the mechanics of this game play could careless about how well your action game play skills are... it's a RPG... so I'm not sure what's left... cancel my ESO plus membership and move on to other games I guess

Doctordarkspawn

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

It killed this game but I dont think I'm saying that in the way most are.

Dungeons have become a hell where I must be eliteist because most dont have the DPS to finish them anymore. It's become idiotic.

This game suffers from the Devs doing things without realizing the consequences of their actions. First softcaps, now scaling, now the dungeon buffs. They are out of touch with their own game and the wants of the playerbase at large.

The scaling in dungeon is really off right now, it doesn't scale well. The problem is not because there's scaling, it's because it doesn't scale well. It's something ZOS have to fix.

I'd agree with that. I just wish they'd start.

Kronosphere

Scaling SAVED the game. im literally only playing because in my eyes its revived the game. not being smart but if you dont like it go play Lord of the rings online that doesnt have scaling to my knowledge.

now 90% of the zones arent absolutely useless after you hit 50. its like a tes game again

Hluill

I guess my problem is with UP-scaling: level twenties going to Coldharbor and owning mobs while level fifties struggle.

I like the idea of venturing to lower-level areas and not have the mobs completely trivialized. But I want to experience some worth to my progression through levels and champion points and gear.

I've seen some games that only upscale for specific zones while only higher levels are downscaled for lower zones.

crowzub17_ESO

Kronosphere wrote: »

Scaling SAVED the game. im literally only playing because in my eyes its revived the game. not being smart but if you dont like it go play Lord of the rings online that doesnt have scaling to my knowledge.

now 90% of the zones arent absolutely useless after you hit 50. its like a tes game again

On a free web game or something that comment would be fine. But after investing over $900 into this the "if you don't like it go play something else" is kind of inappropriate.

Not that any of us have any say in what they change to their game but still the just go play something else isn't that simple.

gel214thb14_ESO

Hluill wrote: »

I guess my problem is with UP-scaling: level twenties going to Coldharbor and owning mobs while level fifties struggle.

I like the idea of venturing to lower-level areas and not have the mobs completely trivialized. But I want to experience some worth to my progression through levels and champion points and gear.

I've seen some games that only upscale for specific zones while only higher levels are downscaled for lower zones.

To be fair, Guild Wars 2 has scaling everywhere and it works beautifully. HIgh level players that are downscaled are a bit more powerful than low level players in lower zones. I wouldn't say it trivialises that content, but it is certainly easier.

In ESO this apparently happens when you gain more than 160 champion points. Which is a LOT lol :-) I have not been able to find an XP chart for gaining Champion Points but 160 doesn't seem to be trivial.

Hluill

gel214thb14_ESO wrote: »

Hluill wrote: »

I guess my problem is with UP-scaling: level twenties going to Coldharbor and owning mobs while level fifties struggle.

I like the idea of venturing to lower-level areas and not have the mobs completely trivialized. But I want to experience some worth to my progression through levels and champion points and gear.

I've seen some games that only upscale for specific zones while only higher levels are downscaled for lower zones.

To be fair, Guild Wars 2 has scaling everywhere and it works beautifully. HIgh level players that are downscaled are a bit more powerful than low level players in lower zones. I wouldn't say it trivialises that content, but it is certainly easier.

In ESO this apparently happens when you gain more than 160 champion points. Which is a LOT lol :-) I have not been able to find an XP chart for gaining Champion Points but 160 doesn't seem to be trivial.

Yeah, I don't remember upscaling in GW2. But the downscaling was a lot of fun, particularly for the event zergs.

And I agree with you on the CP160! Been playing for a while and have yet to see it.

hmsdragonfly

daedalusAI wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Elvira wrote: »

As for me... And hope/chance this automatic scaling of areas can be TURNED OFF, at least in future? I completely and utterly despise this feature in _any game_. It kills any enjoyment of becoming more powerful. And I believe there are _lot_ of people who feel the same, even if perhaps minority (though I'm not sure even about that :-p)

There's a reason why most people are fine when Bethesda introduce scaling system in Oblivion and Skyrim.
There's also an ongoing argument in TES fanbase (just like in here) about the scaling system. A group of the fanbase wants the game to be like Morrowind, no scaling. So, in the end, you can't please everyone. A group has to be compromised. If they remove the scaling, there will be a huge *** from people who like the scaling. And believe me there are way more of them, just look at the sales of Skyrim.

Indeed: you can't please both sides.

But right now you got a system that has scaling for everyone <160cp which means don't feel powerful no matter where you go because everything is scaled to 160cp as a fixed value.

For everyone >160cp the scaling isn't an issue because they out-scale that fixed value easily with plenty of cp.

Which in turn means everyone that doesn't invest time to get above 160cp won't get that "progression and powerful" feeling you get in other games when visiting starter areas in your shiny armor with your god-like spells or paying some old enemy another visit because you had to avoid him earlier when you were a pup.

Many people don't want faceroll easy godmode......it gets boring when you arent challenged in some way.
How is pressing 111111111 satisfying in any way ?

Its not that I don't understand those who crave power and dominance and want godmode to satisfy their ego.
It just doesn't work in a multiplayer game for all players at the same time.
It definitively doesn't work in a game with PvP.

The only thing you can do is have part time godmode....and the closest we have to that is ultimates and emperor.

That facerolling is still there but is now locked behind the time you have to invest to farm up cp to break through the worldwide scaling of 160cp.
At that point you can still press 111 and destroy your standard landscape mob with ease.

Or better, just play like how you play skyrim? No?