Low population bonus bug in Trueflame

Soul_Demon · October 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Guess there really isn't a choice. Tickets get the same third world canned responses....forum posts are still not responded to for acknowledgment of the problem. This leaves players no options.

Celas_Dranacea · October 2016

I am quite prepared for a ZOS employee to let us know that there has been a mistake which will push us AD to last place - totally fine by me.

But for the sake of discussion, does anybody remember what population looked like Thursday and Friday mornings from the hours of 12am-8am PST?

If AD was badly underpopulated during those times then that might partially explain it. If not, I don't know and I hope they do whatever necessary to make sure the campaign is fair.

Minno · October 2016

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

I am quite prepared for a ZOS employee to let us know that there has been a mistake which will push us AD I to last place totally fine by mean.

But for the sake of discussion, does anybody remember what population looked like Thursday and Friday mornings from the hours of 12am-8am PST?

If AD was badly underpopulated during those times then that might partially explain it. If not, I don't know and I hope they do whatever necessary to make sure the campaign is fair.

If a faction can coordinate to keep numbers off a campaign to gain score, I'd consider that a tactic.

Though its probably just the system lagging behind as intended to keep this tactic from being abused constantly.

EP and DC will need to step up their resource gain (AD currently does this better).

Celas_Dranacea · October 2016

Minno wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

I am quite prepared for a ZOS employee to let us know that there has been a mistake which will push us AD I to last place totally fine by mean.

But for the sake of discussion, does anybody remember what population looked like Thursday and Friday mornings from the hours of 12am-8am PST?

If AD was badly underpopulated during those times then that might partially explain it. If not, I don't know and I hope they do whatever necessary to make sure the campaign is fair.

If a faction can coordinate to keep numbers off a campaign to gain score, I'd consider that a tactic.

Though its probably just the system lagging behind as intended to keep this tactic from being abused constantly.

EP and DC will need to step up their resource gain (AD currently does this better).

It's true - AD has come up with the winning strategy - code word "SLEEP"

In addition to achieving a low population bonus, as a whole our faction has agreed that logging off to obtain an average of 8 hours of hibernation each day greatly enhances our ability to push buttons in a coherent manner that results in enemy player deaths.

Minno · October 2016

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

I am quite prepared for a ZOS employee to let us know that there has been a mistake which will push us AD I to last place totally fine by mean.

But for the sake of discussion, does anybody remember what population looked like Thursday and Friday mornings from the hours of 12am-8am PST?

If AD was badly underpopulated during those times then that might partially explain it. If not, I don't know and I hope they do whatever necessary to make sure the campaign is fair.

If a faction can coordinate to keep numbers off a campaign to gain score, I'd consider that a tactic.

Though its probably just the system lagging behind as intended to keep this tactic from being abused constantly.

EP and DC will need to step up their resource gain (AD currently does this better).

It's true - AD has come up with the winning strategy - code word "SLEEP"

In addition to achieving a low population bonus, as a whole our faction has agreed that logging off to obtain an average of 8 hours of hibernation each day greatly enhances our ability to push buttons in a coherent manner that results in enemy player deaths.

DC might lose due to over-hiring independent Japanese gaming contractors to fill up the oceanic ranks.

Damn 1099 forms

God_flakes · October 2016

Soul_Demon wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Guess there really isn't a choice. Tickets get the same third world canned responses....forum posts are still not responded to for acknowledgment of the problem. This leaves players no options.

Maybe someone will post a video with a swear word in it. That will get their attention right quick.

Crispen_Longbow · October 2016

God_flakes wrote: »

Maybe someone will post a video with a swear word in it. That will get their attention right quick.

Counting "Low Pop" like a Boss!

Manoekin · October 2016

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Let's just ignore the people telling you how it works

This game man

.

EIGHTS wrote: »

KisoValley wrote: »

I highly doubt AD have found a way to 'scam the system' lmao

AD always has benefit of BUGS since beta.
What a coincidence!

It took about a year before ZOS realized oil pots cost less AP on EP than the other factions. The only actual case of faction favoritism in the game's history.

Well, given the fact in previous posts we have stated that the bonus is being applied after faction is pop locked for several consecutive hours- you also insinuated you know exactly how the low pop bonus worked.....Since ZOS has never one time revealed what timeframe a faction has to be at low to gain the bonus or how long it lasts to my knowlege, maybe you could fill in the blank there?

It would definitely be helpful, as right now what is being reported is clearly not a faction being at low pop for ANY amount of time to gain the bonus- and it is happening repeatedly.

See,

DODHitman wrote: »

Not sure if this will shed some light on this subject/mechanics, but here is a post from Dec. 2014
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/294087/low-population-bonus-bug-in-trueflame/p2

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »
Thank you for staying patient, all. We have looked into the population bonus and everything seems to be working as designed. To give you a bit more insight into the mechanic, the population bonus is applied and dissolved over time and not immediately. Because of the gradual application, there isn't really a way for players to log in and out to raise or lower the bonus in a consistent way.

We can say after looking at the campaigns from the back end that the battles are often pretty close! That said, we will continue monitoring the campaigns to see if the population bonus needs to be tweaked.

As you can see, this subject has been brought up time and time again......and as always, here we go....."its working as intended". Please Zos, can you once again look into this dam low pop bonus crap and make sure this isnt a "BUG". As others have stated, we dont need all of AD looked at as some kind of LP cheaters.

There's at least one or two other posts out there about the subject. As stated before your post and after, the low pop bonus has absolutely nothing to do with what the pop looks like when it gets applied. I don't have a whole lot of faith in ZOS, but generally something working as intended yesterday is also working as intended today. Calling for them to look for bugs in it is really fruitless and just screams whining. Especially for a system that applies universally. There's literally no way AD can benefit from it in a way that EP/DC can't as well. The difference is that AD met the requirements to be considered for the bonus. This is a holistic approach to the issue, not just crying about how AD is locked during primetime and I only play during primetime so that's all that matters.

Rohamad_Ali · October 2016

Wheeler ? Wheeler ? @ZOS_BrianWheeler ?

Must be his day off .

heystreethawk · October 2016

I love and cherish AD and usually think about the Queen right before I fall asleep, but there is no way that we are coordinated enough to make sure that a sufficient amount of us are not whatsoever in Cyrodiil for however many hours at a time. It is difficult enough to figure out if anyone plans on defending Black Boot.

(Kudos to Skeever for finding that quote!)

DHale · October 2016

relaxed83 wrote: »

Look at this! AD is poplocked and they own most of the map AND they have a low pop bonus... I think they found a way to scam the system logging off before eval or something... this is just crap and needs to be address asap!

Where is my tin foil hat? I left it around here somewhere. Our hot plan through coordinating our efforts was working until AD saw the alessia bridge then it was curtains for AD.

fastolfv_ESO · October 2016

AD has not had a numbers disadvantage once this campaign, as a matter of fact dc locks last of the 3 near primetime and early mornings all pops are fairly low. If underpop worked the days when azuras was only ep and locked 24/7 while dc and ad went 1-3 bars throughout the day would have triggered it but even then we didnt. Its clear the system isnt working when the eval AD loses the lead it kicks back in and never turns off, this cannot be defended its broken and needs fixing

Yolokin_Swagonborn · October 2016

So the real question is:

Is this some glitch or a coodinated effort by AD guilds to log off right before the low pop assessment then log back in with the bonus?

Before you cry tinfoil hat remember how people used to coordinate zerging the map right before a maintenance to lock in all the points during that time. Unfortunately, this game is infested with tryhards that will manipulate every mechanic to get the slightest advantage even if it breaks the spirit of the game and makes life miserable for everyone else.

heystreethawk · October 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

So the real question is:

Is this some glitch or a coodinated effort by AD guilds to log off right before the low pop assessment then log back in with the bonus?

While I'm extremely dubious that aforementioned coordination could have happened at all, I can still only speak for Fantasia, and as such: no one has reached out to us regarding a plan of that nature, and in the periods when my eyes are pointed at the lower-left corner of the screen, I have not seen anyone allude to any knowledge of low population mechanics in zone chat.

Sounomi · October 2016

PvPers: There's a major bug destroying PvP!!
ZOS: A major bug?! We'll get right to i... oh, you said "PvP." Thought you said "PvE" for a moment. We'll uh... get to it... eventually....

ataggs · October 2016

In one thread AD are a bunch of bridge loving pugs who need better communication, in the next we are coordinating to take advantage of the low pop bonus.

Minno · October 2016

ataggs wrote: »

In one thread AD are a bunch of bridge loving pugs who need better communication, in the next we are coordinating to take advantage of the low pop bonus.

By "coordinating" you mean running away in fear

.

Celas_Dranacea · October 2016

Minno wrote: »

ataggs wrote: »

In one thread AD are a bunch of bridge loving pugs who need better communication, in the next we are coordinating to take advantage of the low pop bonus.

By "coordinating" you mean running away in fear .

Are you referring to AD getting double teamed last night? I wasn't able to get on but that's what I heard... I think many AD guilds take a break Mondays, but even so If our folks left Cyrodil when the tin foil hat purple army came marching I wouldn't blame them.

ataggs · October 2016

Minno wrote: »

ataggs wrote: »

In one thread AD are a bunch of bridge loving pugs who need better communication, in the next we are coordinating to take advantage of the low pop bonus.

By "coordinating" you mean running away in fear .

"Fleeing is a perfectly valid tactic if you wander into a tough situation. Find or craft better gear, use skill points, or level up a bit more, then come back to fight another day."

Soul_Demon · October 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Let's just ignore the people telling you how it works

This game man

.

EIGHTS wrote: »

KisoValley wrote: »

I highly doubt AD have found a way to 'scam the system' lmao

AD always has benefit of BUGS since beta.
What a coincidence!

It took about a year before ZOS realized oil pots cost less AP on EP than the other factions. The only actual case of faction favoritism in the game's history.

Well, given the fact in previous posts we have stated that the bonus is being applied after faction is pop locked for several consecutive hours- you also insinuated you know exactly how the low pop bonus worked.....Since ZOS has never one time revealed what timeframe a faction has to be at low to gain the bonus or how long it lasts to my knowlege, maybe you could fill in the blank there?

It would definitely be helpful, as right now what is being reported is clearly not a faction being at low pop for ANY amount of time to gain the bonus- and it is happening repeatedly.

See,

DODHitman wrote: »

Not sure if this will shed some light on this subject/mechanics, but here is a post from Dec. 2014
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/294087/low-population-bonus-bug-in-trueflame/p2

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »
Thank you for staying patient, all. We have looked into the population bonus and everything seems to be working as designed. To give you a bit more insight into the mechanic, the population bonus is applied and dissolved over time and not immediately. Because of the gradual application, there isn't really a way for players to log in and out to raise or lower the bonus in a consistent way.

We can say after looking at the campaigns from the back end that the battles are often pretty close! That said, we will continue monitoring the campaigns to see if the population bonus needs to be tweaked.

As you can see, this subject has been brought up time and time again......and as always, here we go....."its working as intended". Please Zos, can you once again look into this dam low pop bonus crap and make sure this isnt a "BUG". As others have stated, we dont need all of AD looked at as some kind of LP cheaters.

There's at least one or two other posts out there about the subject. As stated before your post and after, the low pop bonus has absolutely nothing to do with what the pop looks like when it gets applied. I don't have a whole lot of faith in ZOS, but generally something working as intended yesterday is also working as intended today. Calling for them to look for bugs in it is really fruitless and just screams whining. Especially for a system that applies universally. There's literally no way AD can benefit from it in a way that EP/DC can't as well. The difference is that AD met the requirements to be considered for the bonus. This is a holistic approach to the issue, not just crying about how AD is locked during primetime and I only play during primetime so that's all that matters.

So, you don't know how it works at all. You insinuated you did, but in fact do not. Interesting.
You say "I don't have a whole lot of faith in ZOS, but generally something working as intended yesterday is also working as intended today. Calling for them to look for bugs in it is really fruitless and just screams whining. Especially for a system that applies universally". Of note here is that only AD are getting this low pop bonus while at pop lock. You are dismissive with yet another post and again insinuate that its all fine and working as intended missing key points that were already covered.

So to cover this completely, you don't know how it works, we should not report it, and just know that the unknowing scoring designed to give low pop factions help is somehow giving the bonus to fully manned factions- but only one of them- for only a few hours- when at pop lock for several hours before then- reporting this or saying something is not necessary as according to you, its something all factions can utilize and benefit from- but they are not.

Well, guess the rest of us should just ltp and gitgud- but I would like to thank you for another chance to bump the thread up.

Berenhir · October 2016

Okay I confess. I did it. I manipulated the servers by a combination of employee mind control and macro refreshing of leaderboards.
Noone can help you. All devs will tell you it is working as intended. You cannot stop us. We are many. We are old. We are superior. We will win this campaign and all wars to come. Bow to the Queen! Delete your lizards and men and join the eagle banners or despair!

God_flakes · October 2016

heystreethawk wrote: »

I love and cherish AD and usually think about the Queen right before I fall asleep, but there is no way that we are coordinated enough to make sure that a sufficient amount of us are not whatsoever in Cyrodiil for however many hours at a time. It is difficult enough to figure out if anyone plans on defending Black Boot.

(Kudos to Skeever for finding that quote!)

I really hate to be the one to bring this up AGAIN ....but you all were blaming DC for using a low pop bonus to beat you on Haderus. Don't make me drag up the thread, it was something about @ataggs asking AD to return and help on TF. Remember? And now you guys are winning via a "bugged" low pop bonus and it's "ad are innocent angels who would never do such thing!" And "we are too uncoordinated to pull off such a complicated maneuver!"

<eyeroll>

Minno · October 2016

Berenhir wrote: »

Okay I confess. I did it. I manipulated the servers by a combination of employee mind control and macro refreshing of leaderboards.
Noone can help you. All devs will tell you it is working as intended. You cannot stop us. We are many. We are old. We are superior. We will win this campaign and all wars to come. Bow to the Queen! Delete your lizards and men and join the eagle banners or despair!

But you high elves can't get anything done without your *** cousins and pet cats. Without them, you are lazy aristocrats lol.

Edit: slang word for an uneducated southerner is autocensored lol

God_flakes · October 2016

Behold AD accusing DC of deliberately manipulating low pop bonus:

Incidentally this is @Telel claiming this. His name got cut off for some reason.

So AD is innocent of exactly and precisely what they accused DC of doing in Haderus? Puh-lease!!!

Even Nactron donned his tin foil hat:

Celas_Dranacea · October 2016

What about article 2 section 3 paragraph 4 of that one forum post from 2014 that proves you are a Cylon? What about that?

Minno · October 2016

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

What about article 2 section 3 paragraph 4 of that one forum post from 2014 that proves you are a Cylon? What about that?

Cylons are still superior to elves, pet cats, and bone farmers.

Minno · October 2016

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

What about article 2 section 3 paragraph 4 of that one forum post from 2014 that proves you are a Cylon? What about that?

Cylons are still superior to elves, pet cats, and bone farmers.

Manoekin · October 2016

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Let's just ignore the people telling you how it works

This game man

.

EIGHTS wrote: »

KisoValley wrote: »

I highly doubt AD have found a way to 'scam the system' lmao

AD always has benefit of BUGS since beta.
What a coincidence!

It took about a year before ZOS realized oil pots cost less AP on EP than the other factions. The only actual case of faction favoritism in the game's history.

Well, given the fact in previous posts we have stated that the bonus is being applied after faction is pop locked for several consecutive hours- you also insinuated you know exactly how the low pop bonus worked.....Since ZOS has never one time revealed what timeframe a faction has to be at low to gain the bonus or how long it lasts to my knowlege, maybe you could fill in the blank there?

It would definitely be helpful, as right now what is being reported is clearly not a faction being at low pop for ANY amount of time to gain the bonus- and it is happening repeatedly.

See,

DODHitman wrote: »

Not sure if this will shed some light on this subject/mechanics, but here is a post from Dec. 2014
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/294087/low-population-bonus-bug-in-trueflame/p2

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »
Thank you for staying patient, all. We have looked into the population bonus and everything seems to be working as designed. To give you a bit more insight into the mechanic, the population bonus is applied and dissolved over time and not immediately. Because of the gradual application, there isn't really a way for players to log in and out to raise or lower the bonus in a consistent way.

We can say after looking at the campaigns from the back end that the battles are often pretty close! That said, we will continue monitoring the campaigns to see if the population bonus needs to be tweaked.

As you can see, this subject has been brought up time and time again......and as always, here we go....."its working as intended". Please Zos, can you once again look into this dam low pop bonus crap and make sure this isnt a "BUG". As others have stated, we dont need all of AD looked at as some kind of LP cheaters.

There's at least one or two other posts out there about the subject. As stated before your post and after, the low pop bonus has absolutely nothing to do with what the pop looks like when it gets applied. I don't have a whole lot of faith in ZOS, but generally something working as intended yesterday is also working as intended today. Calling for them to look for bugs in it is really fruitless and just screams whining. Especially for a system that applies universally. There's literally no way AD can benefit from it in a way that EP/DC can't as well. The difference is that AD met the requirements to be considered for the bonus. This is a holistic approach to the issue, not just crying about how AD is locked during primetime and I only play during primetime so that's all that matters.

So, you don't know how it works at all. You insinuated you did, but in fact do not. Interesting.
You say "I don't have a whole lot of faith in ZOS, but generally something working as intended yesterday is also working as intended today. Calling for them to look for bugs in it is really fruitless and just screams whining. Especially for a system that applies universally". Of note here is that only AD are getting this low pop bonus while at pop lock. You are dismissive with yet another post and again insinuate that its all fine and working as intended missing key points that were already covered.

So to cover this completely, you don't know how it works, we should not report it, and just know that the unknowing scoring designed to give low pop factions help is somehow giving the bonus to fully manned factions- but only one of them- for only a few hours- when at pop lock for several hours before then- reporting this or saying something is not necessary as according to you, its something all factions can utilize and benefit from- but they are not.

Well, guess the rest of us should just ltp and gitgud- but I would like to thank you for another chance to bump the thread up.

Wow you're dense. I know as much about it as the dev's have let players know. It's already been explained in this very thread, and there has even been a link to one of the dev responses in a previous thread. If you lack the intellect to put two and two together or use a simple search to find out whether or not this question has been answered by a dev before... then this is obviously just a troll and bait post/thread.

Facts:

AD is not the only faction that benefits from it. There is literally screenshots now of it having affected other factions. Boohoo conspiracy.
A faction being poplocked at the time the bonus occurs has literally nothing to do with the bonus applying.
The bonus applies based on population data taken over a period of time, not just a single morning.

Maybe Facts?:

The period of time, from my recollection, has been extended to cover a greater time frame as it was deemed to be happening too regularly/reactively. This does not mean it wasn't working as intended, but that they decided to make it take in a wider range of data so that it pops up less frequently.

Minno · October 2016

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

What about article 2 section 3 paragraph 4 of that one forum post from 2014 that proves you are a Cylon? What about that?

Cylons are still superior to elves, pet cats, and bone farmers.

Manoekin · October 2016

*