Crafting Nodes

Asardes

The bad news is that the zone/character levels had gotten "divorced" a long time ago:
- doing the content in the zones in the current setup will result in outleveling (more than 5 levels above the content) your character relative to the zone about half way trough it, which results in mobs granting no experience and dropping no gear that can be deconstructed for raw materials whatsoever.
- the scaling in the silver and gold areas is in utter disarray since DB dropped and VR were removed: the "dead" nodes remained as before, while the mobs and their drops were scaled to the new level. For example silver zone 1 has CP10-30 nodes for wood, cloth and metal, but the mobs are already CP40 and drop gear and leather scraps of that level.

Because it fixes that I like the new system way better. As I said not getting materials for your/others gear is really a non issue.

Alastrine

STEVIL wrote: »

show previous quotes

Alastrine wrote: »

For the record, I don't think 'harvesting gold off of other players by exploiting shortages" is a very nice way to word your point.

its accurate tho. key point is if you are worried about the change in your ability to make gold off other players (as you admitted) the bigger hit to your wallet will come from other characters having what they need not from you having to find new ways to get lower level nodes.

See, as you have already noted, there are ways if you want to maintain a steady supply of all levels of mats.
you are in complete control of those aspects. You can choose to get characters at the right levels and the right skills to keep access to all nodes at all levels.

Sure its different but... if that is key to your - how did you put it "This is the entire game and what I enjoy about it. "... yeah that was it.

Well then by making different choices than you do now and getting skills spent differently than you do now and maybe doing a bit of work to get to a new characters and skill spend setup you can get back to being able to send a character to harvest nodes of any level at any time.

better yet, they wont have to even travel. Choose the right character and wherever they are... bam... the exact mats you want.

So, your characters being denied access? thats entirely now in your control for that one piece of the "This is the entire game and what I enjoy about it. " operation.

BUT you and i both know without a doubt that is only a piece of the operation, right?

You could have ten million mats of every level delivered in your inbox daily and wouldn't be able to sell them as long as the other characters in the game got it too, right?

in order for you to make gold off other characters for selling mats you have to have other characters in sufficient numbers who dont have mats they need.

the part of the new system you and other marketers cannot control that will hit your bottom line the most is that other characters will get mats and drops keyed to their needs.

based on what i have seen, a good deal of (it seems to me the majority of) the outrage by marketers over the new system keep coming back to divorcing the harvesting of other characters from nodes they need. They keep saying "hey lets lock zones" in one way or another as an answer to "i wont be able to harvest mats of any level as easily."

but see, when i suggest instead "hey, lets make mats able to be used at any level they can now AND LOWER so all the nodes you harvest as master crafters will enable you to craft for anyone?" that doesn't seem to be the same argument solution they want.

The marketers solutions - Change the plan to prevent the part of the change that gets everyone their mats.
My Solution - Change the plan to allow more flexibility for use of the higher end mats so marketers can use them for any level gear.

key is, major difference is, my solution deals with the need of the crafters to gets mats they can use to craft lower end gear while their zone lock solutions deal with the reduced need of other characters to buy mats at all if the other characters get them easily, readily for free with drops and casual gameplay.




as for nice enough?

is it nicer than... less nice than... or about the same niceyness as the following?

What a stupid setup this will be

How dumb is this

Wow. Was my very honestly meant appreciation for your explanations and the time you took to write them ever misplaced. I was sincere in my thanks but I take it back. The fact I didn't like how you expressed one of your opinions didn't mean I did not appreciate your detailed explanations, I just don't agree with what your wording implies about the character of anyone that sells mats, I think it implies something very negative about sellers which we don't deserve. Many of us sellers/crafters don't charge and don't have a lot of gold and what we do have we use to support buying our traders, helping new players get started and so on. Plus purchasing motifs so we can offer more options to others that many of us craft for at no charge. Anyway, 'non refert' as they say.
MY comments were my opinion of the CONCEPTS not at any 'person' . Too funny. I wish you well.

Alastrine

Asardes wrote: »

The bad news is that the zone/character levels had gotten "divorced" a long time ago:
- doing the content in the zones in the current setup will result in outleveling (more than 5 levels above the content) your character relative to the zone about half way trough it, which results in mobs granting no experience and dropping no gear that can be deconstructed for raw materials whatsoever.
- the scaling in the silver and gold areas is in utter disarray since DB dropped and VR were removed: the "dead" nodes remained as before, while the mobs and their drops were scaled to the new level. For example silver zone 1 has CP10-30 nodes for wood, cloth and metal, but the mobs are already CP40 and drop gear and leather scraps of that level.

Because it fixes that I like the new system way better. As I said not getting materials for your/others gear is really a non issue.

I agree that it will be great for players from that aspect, absolutely. 100%

The seller aspect is definitely a minority thing and I'm aware of that. I just thought these forums were for input/opinion from all perspectives and was offering mine.

Was not seeking to get insulted or flamed (not by you Asardes, I am not saying you did).
So.. further note to self.. perhaps best to stay off the forums and leave it to the 'pros' lol.

STEVIL

Alastrine wrote: »

show previous quotes

STEVIL wrote: »

Alastrine wrote: »

For the record, I don't think 'harvesting gold off of other players by exploiting shortages" is a very nice way to word your point.

its accurate tho. key point is if you are worried about the change in your ability to make gold off other players (as you admitted) the bigger hit to your wallet will come from other characters having what they need not from you having to find new ways to get lower level nodes.

See, as you have already noted, there are ways if you want to maintain a steady supply of all levels of mats.
you are in complete control of those aspects. You can choose to get characters at the right levels and the right skills to keep access to all nodes at all levels.

Sure its different but... if that is key to your - how did you put it "This is the entire game and what I enjoy about it. "... yeah that was it.

Well then by making different choices than you do now and getting skills spent differently than you do now and maybe doing a bit of work to get to a new characters and skill spend setup you can get back to being able to send a character to harvest nodes of any level at any time.

better yet, they wont have to even travel. Choose the right character and wherever they are... bam... the exact mats you want.

So, your characters being denied access? thats entirely now in your control for that one piece of the "This is the entire game and what I enjoy about it. " operation.

BUT you and i both know without a doubt that is only a piece of the operation, right?

You could have ten million mats of every level delivered in your inbox daily and wouldn't be able to sell them as long as the other characters in the game got it too, right?

in order for you to make gold off other characters for selling mats you have to have other characters in sufficient numbers who dont have mats they need.

the part of the new system you and other marketers cannot control that will hit your bottom line the most is that other characters will get mats and drops keyed to their needs.

based on what i have seen, a good deal of (it seems to me the majority of) the outrage by marketers over the new system keep coming back to divorcing the harvesting of other characters from nodes they need. They keep saying "hey lets lock zones" in one way or another as an answer to "i wont be able to harvest mats of any level as easily."

but see, when i suggest instead "hey, lets make mats able to be used at any level they can now AND LOWER so all the nodes you harvest as master crafters will enable you to craft for anyone?" that doesn't seem to be the same argument solution they want.

The marketers solutions - Change the plan to prevent the part of the change that gets everyone their mats.
My Solution - Change the plan to allow more flexibility for use of the higher end mats so marketers can use them for any level gear.

key is, major difference is, my solution deals with the need of the crafters to gets mats they can use to craft lower end gear while their zone lock solutions deal with the reduced need of other characters to buy mats at all if the other characters get them easily, readily for free with drops and casual gameplay.




as for nice enough?

is it nicer than... less nice than... or about the same niceyness as the following?

What a stupid setup this will be

How dumb is this

Wow. Was my very honestly meant appreciation for your explanations and the time you took to write them ever misplaced. I was sincere in my thanks but I take it back.
MY comments were aimed at the CONCEPTS not at any one 'person'.

really?

"For the record, I don't think 'harvesting gold off of other players by exploiting shortages" is a very nice way to word your point."

But seriously, you were the one who decided to make how you felt about the tone of one specific phrase in terms of niceness, right, but you are only about concepts?

As i went to length to point out the phrase about harvesting gold by exploiting shortages is very very accurate and appropriate since supply of resources to sell is still a factor in complete control of the seller in the new system, just in a different way and requiring different setup and choices than before to optimize. The big change that is not in the sellers control is the increase in availability of useful mats to other characters which will significantly reduce their need to buy mats and reduce the demand for what you are trying to make money off of selling to them.

Add in the factor of the outrage sellers pushing for locking nodes "affecting the buyers supply of useful mats without selling" as the go to instead of the "make crafters able to use high mats for any" and the fact that any experienced market seller knows demand and shortage are KEY KEY KEY pivotal elements to sales and profit and its pretty clear.

really, come on, a little fortitude is all thats required to not be offended when someone points out the obvious link between buyer's shortages and sellers profits.

Sellers dont make money off of other characters because the other characters consider buying mats a charitable contribution. its off the shortages those characters have. (Well, OK, maybe some of your buyers are doing it out of charity but then they likely will continue it in the new system, so the only buyers affected will be those buying for need not charity.)

Alastrine

Absolutely STEVIL. Whatever you say. It has been very entertaining and turned out to be a tremendously good laugh in the end.
Cheers

Asardes

I don't donate anything, just sell it at the right price on the guild stores. Paying 1.5-3K for a full stack of crafting materials is pretty convenient even for "poor" characters. That much money can be had in 20-30 minutes of pretty much any in-game activity (questing, killing mobs, stealing even white/green items from containers).

I confess, I'm a bourgeois pig that sucks the blood of the MMO proletariat

STEVIL

Alastrine wrote: »

Absolutely STEVIL. Whatever you say. It has been very entertaining and turned out to be a tremendously good laugh in the end.
Cheers

And same to you.

Enjoy!

carljokl

It is coming whether people want it or not. Now comes how to adapt. It has been covered pretty much already.

1) A shift from crafters harvesting materials for lower level characters and alts to those characters harvesting their own raw materials. (Harvesting and Crafting become more separated activities)

2) This may mean spending skill points on keen eyes traits even on characters that are not crafting focused. This may annoy some but it is only 3 skill points vs how many it takes to fully skill out a crafter. Even then keen eyes is not mandatory and materials can be found without it.

3) If you really must have the ability to harvest any level material, 10 alts are needed with different crafting levels. This may cause annoyance as it wasn't necessary before. It will be a choice of what matters most to you. Spending the skill points on you alts on whatever you want or being able to have access to any type of material. Investing just enough skill points to make an alt a given level is still a quite a bit less that filling out all the crafting passives as you would with the main crafter.

4) It remains to be seen how the change impacts on supply and demand for selling raw materials. Players who don't want to harvest are probably not going to start doing it just because the materials are now all the applicable level (they might but if it isn't something they like to do in general probably not).

I hope the 50% material split is a more accurate statistic than the upgrade success probability percentages.

There are good and bad aspects of this change. In the end it is going to happen so people will make the best of it or quit in protest.

STEVIL

@carljokl
Agree.

"I hope the 50% material split is a more accurate statistic than the upgrade success probability percentages."

i can say this...

in the areas that scale on live now, the 50/50 split is close to reality. Like anything, it comes and goes in spurts but when i go to refine the numbers match up close enough.

In the hours i spent on playtest with this scaling (first patch) it seemed just like what i had seen in live as far as frequency. Did not have anywhere near the time in or gone everywhere to have a certainty but it looked like in about six different zones at different levels etc it was on par with what i have seen on live in scaled 50/50 zones. if what goes live is like what i saw on PTS when i was looking to see it work or not, it will be close to the 50/50.

i still hope they slip in a removal of mat-lower-limits for crafting but even if not its a change for the better for the most part IMO.

But i have to dicker with you about the upgrade success thing. its absolutely accurate- you either make it 100% or you lose the stuff. :-)

carljokl

[quote="STEVIL;3393976"
But i have to dicker with you about the upgrade success thing. its absolutely accurate- you either make it 100% or you lose the stuff. :-)[/quote]

@STEVIL For that reason it would be safer if upgrade defaulted to start set to 100% I have lost items by accident because I didn't notice hadn't clicked right far enough.

Do I presume rubedite will be available everywhere? Presently I have only got it in Wrothgar. My main crafter just hit Blacksmithing and Clothing level 50 last night and I could upgrade to level 10 crafting on both lines. That would mean both usage level and crafting level is rubedite. I believe rubedite came in later and hasn't existed from the beginning. As such I think I may still end up getting voidsteel nodes and gear in other places. I note that even now there are places where generic gear such as suff found in dungeon racks and forges always matches you usage level. My experience sees that capped at Voidsteel except in Wrothgar. As I have only just hit max level I could be wrong about this though.

helediron

carljokl wrote: »

...snip...
Do I presume rubedite will be available everywhere? ...snip...

Rubedite is everywhere. I have visited at least ten different areas with max level crafter, and they all had rubedite.

I'd would add to topic that the source of lower level mats moves from farming to writs. When i did writs in PTS with 12 crafters, i got maybe 700..800 low level mats every day. It seems to be that if there is no survey map, there is a lower level shipment. Since survey maps drop more rarely, majority of writ rewards will have the shipment. I think i don't need to harvest low level mats ever again.

Asardes

Currently the non-DLC scaling area on live is Cyrodiil, but NPC scaling is capped at CP140 (will increase to CP160 after pach). However the nodes do indeed scale to the last tier. For example my main has maximum proficiency in all crafting skills, and he finds rubedite, ruby ash and ancestor silk in the nodes in Cyrodiil. The animals, although they are CP140 drop rubedo leather scraps. As opposed to the mobs in Cadwell's gold that are CP160 but still drop CP140 gear and shadowhide scraps. One Tamriel will simply fix and simplify the scaling in all areas.

STEVIL

carljokl wrote: »

[quote="STEVIL;3393976"
But i have to dicker with you about the upgrade success thing. its absolutely accurate- you either make it 100% or you lose the stuff. :-)

@STEVIL For that reason it would be safer if upgrade defaulted to start set to 100% I have lost items by accident because I didn't notice hadn't clicked right far enough.


[/quote]

Agree completely

Teridaxus

By the way, people without wrothgar won't be able to do crafting writs anymore since the split of resources you find does not exist yet and crafting writs still requiere void materials.
Well food and alchemy works while enchanting is still possible by buying potentency runes at vendors.

Asardes

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

By the way, people without wrothgar won't be able to do crafting writs anymore since the split of resources you find does not exist yet and crafting writs still requiere void materials.
Well food and alchemy works while enchanting is still possible by buying potentency runes at vendors.

Once the update was made to PTS I had the same dilemma, but I found out that top tier writs will be turned in in Craglorn as well. Was confirmed by ZoS in some podcast and also by people doing actual tests on PTS.

Jayne_Doe

I understand the concerns about not being able to harvest all tiers of mats (without having to set alts at certain levels). But, this has already been done with Enchanting, so anyone who participated in the discussion with the developers about the changes to Enchanting were pretty much prepared for this change.

Fortunately, we were able to get them to reintroduce potency harvesting (the initial proposal was to have them only available by purchasing from vendors or from decon/hireling). However, while they reintroducing potency harvesting, it's only a CHANCE to receive a potency, and it's scaled to your char/crafting level. And, at first, there were no potencies whatsoever available from the surveys, but they fortunately fixed that as well.

Bottom line - this scaling is already on live for Enchanting, so many of us knew it was coming for the others and some of us have already made our peace with it.

In regard to sales, I will say that the new harvesting system for Enchanting has been a real detriment to guild trading. The ONLY thing of value to sell now are Kutas and CP160 potencies. Since EVERY node provides an essence and aspect rune (which is often doubled with the CP passive) and EVERY survey node provides all three (with 2 aspect, all with the chance of doubling with CP passive), enchanters all have way more essences and aspects than they'll ever use, and they are virtually worthless to sell. Even Rekutas, which I was able to sell quite regularly, are sitting on store shelves and piling up in my bank. And as for potencies, while you can sell them, you have to price them below vendor prices, which for anything other than CP160 is not going to bring in much and many aren't even bothering to buy them since they know they can purchase them for very little if necessary. So, CP160 potencies and Kutas are the only enchanting materials that sell consistently.

So, yes, I think that players being able to consistently harvest what they need will affect the demand for these mats at guild traders. I think that those trying to complete writs every day may still purchase these in bulk, but the average person just trying to outfit their character probably won't bother, since they'll always be able to harvest/decon what they need. However, time will tell, and we won't really know until it hits live.

It should be encouraging to crafters though, to read that the refined materials seem to drop whenever a survey is not received, and surveys are dropping half as often, so crafters should be able to build up stock if they do their daily writs.

STEVIL

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

I understand the concerns about not being able to harvest all tiers of mats (without having to set alts at certain levels). But, this has already been done with Enchanting, so anyone who participated in the discussion with the developers about the changes to Enchanting were pretty much prepared for this change.

Fortunately, we were able to get them to reintroduce potency harvesting (the initial proposal was to have them only available by purchasing from vendors or from decon/hireling). However, while they reintroducing potency harvesting, it's only a CHANCE to receive a potency, and it's scaled to your char/crafting level. And, at first, there were no potencies whatsoever available from the surveys, but they fortunately fixed that as well.

Bottom line - this scaling is already on live for Enchanting, so many of us knew it was coming for the others and some of us have already made our peace with it.

In regard to sales, I will say that the new harvesting system for Enchanting has been a real detriment to guild trading. The ONLY thing of value to sell now are Kutas and CP160 potencies. Since EVERY node provides an essence and aspect rune (which is often doubled with the CP passive) and EVERY survey node provides all three (with 2 aspect, all with the chance of doubling with CP passive), enchanters all have way more essences and aspects than they'll ever use, and they are virtually worthless to sell. Even Rekutas, which I was able to sell quite regularly, are sitting on store shelves and piling up in my bank. And as for potencies, while you can sell them, you have to price them below vendor prices, which for anything other than CP160 is not going to bring in much and many aren't even bothering to buy them since they know they can purchase them for very little if necessary. So, CP160 potencies and Kutas are the only enchanting materials that sell consistently.

So, yes, I think that players being able to consistently harvest what they need will affect the demand for these mats at guild traders. I think that those trying to complete writs every day may still purchase these in bulk, but the average person just trying to outfit their character probably won't bother, since they'll always be able to harvest/decon what they need. However, time will tell, and we won't really know until it hits live.

It should be encouraging to crafters though, to read that the refined materials seem to drop whenever a survey is not received, and surveys are dropping half as often, so crafters should be able to build up stock if they do their daily writs.

Agree with this, as someone who has three master enchanters and was involved in those earlier discussions.

i will add that certain glyphs do sell fairly well tho. not at exorbitant prices but certainly enough to make some cash off of.

CrazySonoran

Alastrine knows exactly what I am talking about, we are both in a similar situation except I do some other things other than crafting. Just like them I craft for others in my guild, in zone chat or friends as well as all of my own crafting. It will be really sad when Alastrine and I cant be nice guys and help new players enjoy the game as much as they could have when we get them role specific set armor for free, and some of them quit because they got frustrated trying to run a magicka sorc in heavy armor 5 levels below them and die a lot.

I am not sure if ZOS is aware of how many players will leave if this system goes live, I know of 2, Alastrine said they will leave. If we know a few there will be a lot more, I am sure we all know how volatile the MMO market is, one tiny little rules change and the entire game can die, fast. I actually left Lord of the Rings Online because a rule change made all of my characters too powerful so the game lost it's challenge so it doesnt have to be a nerf to get people to leave. Hopefully ZOS wont make that mistake, I actually enjoy ESO, and dont really want to go back to EvE, CCP already ruined that game for me but its really the only other game I enjoy.

All I, and Alastrine, ask is to have a reliable way to harvest/acquire the tier 2-9 materials without having to level crafting on another character or respeccing 300+ skill points or any of the other ideas presented by people in this thread that are not really options that would help in most cases.

SirAndy

My 4 mains are all CP160 and each one of them has all crafts maxed at 50.

This really sucks since i do craft quite a bit of gear of all levels for other people and they don't always have the mats needed. Which means i need to keep my stockpiles up to date.

Looks like i will have to re-purpose my storage mules into harvesters.

STEVIL

SirAndy wrote: »

My 4 mains are all CP160 and each one of them has all crafts maxed at 50.

This really sucks since i do craft quite a bit of gear of all levels for other people and they don't always have the mats needed. Which means i need to keep my stockpiles up to date.

Looks like i will have to re-purpose my storage mules into harvesters.

Ep, yepper, yessiree absolutely... or well honestly maybe not.

Maybe the influx of mats from all nodes, all drops, all characters everywhere will result in a significant drop in the need of or demand for the charitable altruism of nobles like yourself (and coincidentally the demand due to shortages of mats of appropriate types to be bought from those who less altruistically exploit those shortages to harvest gold off players the zone locked node system fails) and so you can still be the altruistic benefactor by crafting, but they wont need you to provide the mats as much and maybe your stockpiles wont need to stay as high as they are now.

More players finding more useful mats relevant to their character will lower, perhaps as drastically as the enchant nodes scale did, reduce the need for outside sources. More characters being able to find appropriate nodes and drops in casual play is s good thing, except for maybe some of those harvesting gold off players hit by shortages.

STEVIL

CrazySonoran wrote: »

Alastrine knows exactly what I am talking about, we are both in a similar situation except I do some other things other than crafting. Just like them I craft for others in my guild, in zone chat or friends as well as all of my own crafting. It will be really sad when Alastrine and I cant be nice guys and help new players enjoy the game as much as they could have when we get them role specific set armor for free, and some of them quit because they got frustrated trying to run a magicka sorc in heavy armor 5 levels below them and die a lot.

I am not sure if ZOS is aware of how many players will leave if this system goes live, I know of 2, Alastrine said they will leave. If we know a few there will be a lot more, I am sure we all know how volatile the MMO market is, one tiny little rules change and the entire game can die, fast. I actually left Lord of the Rings Online because a rule change made all of my characters too powerful so the game lost it's challenge so it doesnt have to be a nerf to get people to leave. Hopefully ZOS wont make that mistake, I actually enjoy ESO, and dont really want to go back to EvE, CCP already ruined that game for me but its really the only other game I enjoy.

All I, and Alastrine, ask is to have a reliable way to harvest/acquire the tier 2-9 materials without having to level crafting on another character or respeccing 300+ skill points or any of the other ideas presented by people in this thread that are not really options that would help in most cases.

My suggestion i offer up and made many times is to not do that at all.

instead remove the lower gear-cap level on mats.

Why make yourself go to one area or another to find ten different tiers of mats for each of the equips and then for the solvents and so on when instead you could get a much simpler change that allowed the high end mats you gather to be used for any level of gear???

That way, anywhere you harvest, anytime you harvest your collection will be useful for any level gear.

its easy to do too... allow the "-" key on the crafting table to keep lowering the "level" below the current gear-cap min but not lower the amount of mats. that is TRIVIAL code change. let appearance still set to the level, so easy peasey. (SIDE EFFCT: the true level mats gathered in writs and stuff or by lower characters are still better - use less mats per item so they still have a place.)

but, now, of course, unlike the cries for ZONE LOCKED NODES in a freeform travel anywhere game - this would also leave in the "everyone everywhere always gets mats/drops they need in casual play" which will be the biggest hit on demand for buying mats which is a poison pill for some.

Taleof2Cities

@STEVIL, your ideas are always presented clearly and explained thoroughly ... which is a nice change from the "GG ZOS" comments that we see frequently posted.

That said, I'm not in favor of dumbing down the crafting system more by having only one tier of mats.

Crafting has value ... and characters that have worked hard on their crafting abilities should enjoy the perks of their trade (including node harvesting).

Characters have much more control over what mat tiers they can gather by investing the passive skill points in those mat tiers ... versus trying to gather mats related to their character level (which at the very low levels is admittedly difficult).

There are enough skill points out there now (with the recent additions of Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood) for a character to take on both crafting and combat abilities. My Templar Main is full on 5/6 of the crafting skill lines (except provisioning) ... but is also full 3/3 on Templar skill line, 3/3 armor skill lines, Mages Guild, full racial passives, and has 2 weapon skill lines full. So, any argument that there's not enough skill points for crafting is moot.

The other player argument is: "I already have a main crafter. Therefore, I'm exempt from leveling crafting in my other characters but still should be entitled to all the crafting perks on those characters." Unfortunately, ZOS bent a little to that argument by introducing the current 50/50 node system based on player level and crafting passive skill points invested. Now, all nodes will be scaled in One Tamriel ... but players only have 50% chance of getting those precious low level mats. No pun intended, but hindsight is 50/50. If we were to change node scaling back to the passive skill points invested, there will still be the vocal minority of non-crafting end game players that (insert excuse here) can't get end game mats.

To summarize, just like combat skills, players are encouraged to "git gud" on their crafting abilities across characters ... rather than whine in the forums that ZOS isn't providing them enough opportunity to acquire that mats they need. I oppose any discussion of further dilution of the crafting professions ... thus my post here.

TheSpin

Quite frankly, I don't see the reason for concern.

If I have a non-crafting character, I hit the appropriate level for a tier (say level 16 for high iron) I then go to a zone I am already familiar with and farm enough ore/wood/leather for my next set of armor. It might take a little while, but nothing unreasonable. Then if I want to replace before my next tier I just keep gathering. (Remember that tempers come from any tier node, so there's no reason not to gather everything you see anyway).

There will probably be waaaay more tier 1 stuff than needed, but I don't think it'll be a big deal to just harvest as you go.

carljokl

..."You didn't realise you could go back from "One Tamriel" all along"..."All you need to do is use the ruby rubedite slippers sabatons!"..."Just click your heels together three times and repeat after me...there's no place like home the nodes are all zoned...the nodes are all zoned..."

Jayne_Doe

STEVIL wrote: »

Agree with this, as someone who has three master enchanters and was involved in those earlier discussions.

i will add that certain glyphs do sell fairly well tho. not at exorbitant prices but certainly enough to make some cash off of.

I've never bothered to sell glyphs. Which ones are worth selling? I'd guess that people would rather buy gold glyphs, but are they willing to pay at least the same price as what a Kuta sells for?

CrazySonoran wrote: »

Alastrine knows exactly what I am talking about, we are both in a similar situation except I do some other things other than crafting. Just like them I craft for others in my guild, in zone chat or friends as well as all of my own crafting. It will be really sad when Alastrine and I cant be nice guys and help new players enjoy the game as much as they could have when we get them role specific set armor for free, and some of them quit because they got frustrated trying to run a magicka sorc in heavy armor 5 levels below them and die a lot.

I am not sure if ZOS is aware of how many players will leave if this system goes live, I know of 2, Alastrine said they will leave. If we know a few there will be a lot more, I am sure we all know how volatile the MMO market is, one tiny little rules change and the entire game can die, fast. I actually left Lord of the Rings Online because a rule change made all of my characters too powerful so the game lost it's challenge so it doesnt have to be a nerf to get people to leave. Hopefully ZOS wont make that mistake, I actually enjoy ESO, and dont really want to go back to EvE, CCP already ruined that game for me but its really the only other game I enjoy.

All I, and Alastrine, ask is to have a reliable way to harvest/acquire the tier 2-9 materials without having to level crafting on another character or respeccing 300+ skill points or any of the other ideas presented by people in this thread that are not really options that would help in most cases.

As STEVIL alluded to, players will have ready access to the mats for their level, so they can harvest it easily and give it to you. You can still craft their gear for free, but let them supply the raw mats. You can still use your own style/trait stones and tempers.

Also, if you do crafting writs, it sounds like the new system will make it easy to get your hands on lower tier materials. It may take some time to build them up, but since surveys are going to drop half as often, with all other times being a package of 25 refined material, it should give you a decent supply.

At the end of the day, this change is happening. They already did it with Enchanting, so they're not going to go back on it. And with One Tamriel, it makes perfect sense. If you propose keeping it the way it is, only those who choose to play the game in the rigid structure it once was will get the mats they need. Others will be going all over the place and not getting the mats they need. And, new players wouldn't know where they SHOULD go to get them. They want to play with their friends, who are off doing some dolmens in another alliance or whatever - let them harvest what they can use while they're wandering around there. If they do, then they'll have the mats to give you so you can craft some gear for them. If it's truly just about being able to craft gear for others, I really don't think there will be a problem.

EDITED for clarity in last paragraph.

AmberLaTerra

There is actually a quick and easy fix to this issue.

Simply allow a master crafter to craft tier 10 mats into any level gear. It would be pretty simple to add the coding to make stats the same as iron for levels 1-14 or the same as void cloth for cp140 but using Rubidte or Ancestor silk to make them. I mean if we are master crafters should we have the knowledge of how to make the gear out of that mat at ANY level?

Agalloch

Let the base game have zone lvl craft nodes . Or make it like the actual runstone nodes system in LIVE .

I hope even the actual system from PTS will be implemented in Live ...to not last for too much time.

They'll see crafting and farming ruined . If they want to keep the crafters or farmers still playing the game I'm sure in a few months they'll make adjustments.

Also the aggressive BOP system that are coming with OT ...will be nerfed in a few months . I'm sure about this.

Many people will leave because the changes made to crafting nodes or the extension of BOP items to almost every item dropped from dungeons and trials. The economy will be ruined in few months but will have a fresh start after that when they will realize how many mistakes did. ( I'm talking here also about crown crates ..u know what rage they started already with them)

Even OT is not on Live yet, I'm sure the real one will be up after a few months after launch.


English is not my native language.

carljokl

AmberLaTerra wrote: »

There is actually a quick and easy fix to this issue.

Simply allow a master crafter to craft tier 10 mats into any level gear. It would be pretty simple to add the coding to make stats the same as iron for levels 1-14 or the same as void cloth for cp140 but using Rubidte or Ancestor silk to make them. I mean if we are master crafters should we have the knowledge of how to make the gear out of that mat at ANY level?

This could have an economic impact on Writs. If a writ asks for gear of a specific material could gear be crafted of a much lower level and requiring fewer raw materials and still satisfy the writ? At present the writ only specifies gear of a given material and not what level it must be. These are not problems that cannot be resolved. It might get tricky having the top level material scale all the way down to level 1 if the number of ingots scales with it. I suppose there would likely be a lower limit where the number of bars can not drop below.

If we get into crafting gear with the same number of materials but different levels then perhaps it would also be possible to craft gear at every level (even if more than one level uses the same number of ingots). Presently only the even levels (except level 1 being substituted for level two) can be crafted. It can't be totally unreasonable as the dropped gear can be the odd levels meaning the calculations have already been done about the statistics of gear at those levels.

CrazySonoran

Almost everyone on here is missing the point. We, as in all of us, NEED a way to get tier 2-9 mats without having to jump through hoops, PERIOD!!! Writs, hirelings, leveling alts or respeccing max level are all "hoops" and wont give a steady reliable supply of materials a lot of us may need in the future. Really the only solution is to have a graduated system where certain nodes drop in certain zones, loosely following the old world zone/node distribution would work the best with some slight modification to allow tier 10 to be harvested in an area where non-DLC owners can have access to those nodes.

Consider the player who only has one character and has all crafts maxed (or multiple maxed characters), virtually impossible to get lower tier materials, I see them cancelling and playing something else, Altaholics like myself will find a "hoop" that is the lesser of the many evils and will survive, but some will go away too. Add on the BOP issue some have mentioned and I am sure ZOS will feel a dent in the wallet. They want a true sandbox game they need to cater to as many kids as possible so we can all play in the sand nice together no matter which tractor we play with.

STEVIL

CrazySonoran wrote: »

Almost everyone on here is missing the point. We, as in all of us, NEED a way to get tier 2-9 mats without having to jump through hoops, PERIOD!!! Writs, hirelings, leveling alts or respeccing max level are all "hoops" and wont give a steady reliable supply of materials a lot of us may need in the future. Really the only solution is to have a graduated system where certain nodes drop in certain zones, loosely following the old world zone/node distribution would work the best with some slight modification to allow tier 10 to be harvested in an area where non-DLC owners can have access to those nodes.

Consider the player who only has one character and has all crafts maxed (or multiple maxed characters), virtually impossible to get lower tier materials, I see them cancelling and playing something else, Altaholics like myself will find a "hoop" that is the lesser of the many evils and will survive, but some will go away too. Add on the BOP issue some have mentioned and I am sure ZOS will feel a dent in the wallet. They want a true sandbox game they need to cater to as many kids as possible so we can all play in the sand nice together no matter which tractor we play with.

first bold - why? Why do all of us need constant access to tier 2-9 mats?

More specifically, once all characters in casual play keep finding mats at their level and the flow of mats into the game keeps getting keyed to characters in play, who do all of us need constant access to the nine other mats tiers other than the ones we can wear?

Why would someone leave a game because they cant get mats they dont need?

Why wouldnt letting these maxed crafters use those mats they harvest freely to craft any levrl gear meet their needs?

That said, the idea of mines/farms spread around but leaving routine nodes scaling as planned... not a problem.