Crafting Nodes

CrazySonoran

I just wandered around many different zones on PTS with 2 characters to see how the new nodes were laid out and am a bit concerned now. The first was a brand new character, level 4, no crafting skills developed yet and the second was a maxed out cp300+ character with all the crafts maxed out.

The baby character had expected results, I found iron, jute and rawhide everwhere I went, including Wrothgar and Craglorn, Stros M'Kai, and even zones that are considered Cadwell Silver/Gold on live currently.

What I found with the max level crafter is the one that has me concerned. All I found was Ancestor Silk, Rubedite and Rubedo Leather. I am Daggerfall Covenant so Stro M'Kai and Behnikh were my starter areas, CP150+ nodes there, Checked Glenumbra, Bangkorai, Deshaan, Gold Coast, Craglorn, Wrothgar, and a couple others, all CP150+ nodes.

I had heard, and believe the way it works on live now, is the node has a random chance of having a 'zone level' node, or a 'crafting skill level' node. So if i went to my lvl 15+ zone on my CP300+ I would have at least a chance to find Steel or the other materials for a level 15 characters equipment, but there were none. I checked enough I dont think the RNG was playing tricks either, I spent an hour or more over all wandering.

If every zone only contains the nodes for the top tier crafting materials it will be really hard to equip the remaining characters on my 2 accounts as I level them up to 50. I dont really want to, and shouldnt have to, level crafting on all of them, I already spent enough time maxing out one character in all the crafts as it is, and I dont have enough materials to equip even the remaining 8 characters on my main account.

Is this working as intended? How will those of us with max level crafters equip our low level alts?

Cously

I believe they are going on the route of non-crafted gear for lower tiers. The fact zones will drop set pieces scaled to the character's level imply you aren't supposed to bother crafting them.

anitajoneb17_ESO

CrazySonoran wrote: »

I had heard, and believe the way it works on live now, is the node has a random chance of having a 'zone level' node, or a 'crafting skill level' node.

That's the part where you're wrong.
The node has 50% chance to drop a material adjusted to your character's level, and 50% chance to drop a material adjusted to your crafting level. Zone level doesn't exist any more.

What you describe is working as intended : if you harvest wood with a CP300+ char with crafting maxed out and 10 points in the first wood passive, you'll get 100% CP150 materials.
Try removing those skill points from the first wood passive, on that same character, you'll find 50% CP150 mats and 50% lvl1 mats.

CrazySonoran wrote: »

How will those of us with max level crafters equip our low level alts?

3 options :

- Do crafting writs with your main : they will drop either a survey, OR a "stack" of 25 of a random lower level material.
- Harvest with an alt of the required level
- Respec and remove / add skill points on your main (or any other character for that matter) until the required level, and go harvesting.

Obviously the first option is the "easiest one" and the way ZOS intends us to proceed.

CrazySonoran

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That's the part where you're wrong. The node has 50% chance to drop a material adjusted to your character's level, and 50% chance to drop a material adjusted to your crafting level. Zone level doesn't exist any more.

What you describe is working as intended : if you harvest wood with a CP300+ char with crafting maxed out and 10 points in the first wood passive, you'll get 100% CP150 materials.
Try removing those skill points from the first wood passive, on that same character, you'll find 50% CP150 mats and 50% lvl1 mats.

3 options :

- Do crafting writs with your main : they will drop either a survey, OR a "stack" of 25 of a random lower level material.
- Harvest with an alt of the required level
- Respec and remove / add skill points on your main (or any other character for that matter) until the required level, and go harvesting.

Obviously the first option is the "easiest one" and the way ZOS intends us to proceed.

Zones dropping materials based on character level and crafting level does sound like how PTS is setup now that you mention it.

Option one wouldn't work at all. Can only do one writ a day for a small chance of a "stack" of whatever you may need doesn't sound good at all. Be just my luck I'd REALLY need Ebon Ore and I'd get a survey or one of the other many tiers' "stacks" that I didn't need.

Option two may work but I don't really want, and shouldn't have, to spend points on crafting passives on all of my lower level alts just to get gear made for them. I maxed out my main specifically so I didn't HAVE to level crafting on 12 characters. Also, consider the fact that the lower level alt will be only able to harvest the materials for the levels they are about to pass, by the time I get enough High Iron the character will be moving on to the next tier. Cant harvest High Iron between level 10 and 14 in preparation for when they ding 16 and need the new armor.

Option three is just flat out silly.... I'll tell you what, you send me the gold it takes to respec 310+ skill points every time I need to change tiers I need to harvest and I'll vote for you in the next election.

There are many hundreds of other reasons why a high level character may want to harvest lower level materials as well, not just for personal use. Equipping guild members, selling stuff on the market are just two. We REALLY need a reliable way to harvest whatever level material we need when we need it and not have to jump through hoops to do so. If this change goes through the price of lvl 14-cp140 materials will skyrocket and go out of the price range of most players.

Tannus15

I agree.
I like what they are doing in principle, but we need a way to harvest mats for levels below both our crafting skill and character level, or the ability to refine any material to a lower grade.

Actually, I think I prefer that option.

In the crafting UI we need to be able to choose what material to refine raw materials to.

anitajoneb17_ESO

CrazySonoran wrote: »

Option three is just flat out silly.... I'll tell you what, you send me the gold it takes to respec 310+ skill points every time I need to change tiers I need to harvest and I'll vote for you in the next election.

Waow thanks ! But errr... I'm not candidate (last time I checked)

Of course option 3 is flat out silly. And option 2 is close to flat out silly too. I was merely describing the new node system since you were asking.

Option 1 is the only option really. It works well, provided you do writs every day (not simply wait until you need specific mats) and keep them in your inventory, bank or mule. Or better, crafting bag. Remember, dailies and subs are the bread and butter of MMOs.

And there are still the guild traders, or friends or guildies. You don't need a lot of mats at lower levels to craft gear. Yes those mats will be more valuable but they won't skyrocket either. At least I don't think so. Also, newbies and alts won't rely as much as they do now on crafted gear because it will be easy to gather dropped set gear with One Tamriel. There will be less demand for lower level mats altogether.

I for one already stacked a lot of those mats since I have a crafting bag so I can help new guildies with mats any time. I assume most master crafters will do the same. THis is an MMO, you won't be alone ! :-)

CrazySonoran

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Option 1 is the only option really. It works well, provided you do writs every day (not simply wait until you need specific mats) and keep them in your inventory, bank or mule. Or better, crafting bag. Remember, dailies and subs are the bread and butter of MMOs.

25 of each lower tier material per writ will still be super slim chance of getting what you need, then if you do get lucky its only enough to make 1-2 items and then you have to wait another 1-X days for the RNG to bless you with another correct set of 25... This nullifies Option one as being an option. Especially, when you consider someone with luck like mine will get the maps instead since I need the lower mats.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

And there are still the guild traders, or friends or guildies. You don't need a lot of mats at lower levels to craft gear. Yes those mats will be more valuable but they won't skyrocket either. At least I don't think so. Also, newbies and alts won't rely as much as they do now on crafted gear because it will be easy to gather dropped set gear with One Tamriel. There will be less demand for lower level mats altogether.

There may be enough people leveling that dump stuff to keep a decent supply but the prices will go up, and can go up considerably on some of the rarer things like leather. But, we shouldn't have to buy from others to do a basic activity that all characters should be able to do (and can do in almost every other MMO I've seen. This would be the first that restricts anyone from being able to harvest materials lower than their skill/level.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I for one already stacked a lot of those mats since I have a crafting bag so I can help new guildies with mats any time. I assume most master crafters will do the same. THis is an MMO, you won't be alone ! :-)

I have huge stacks of each ore/wood/leather/cloth material except the 1-14 mats, which I am surprisingly really low in. Ok, maybe not so surprising since I create and delete so many baby alts. So personally I have some ideas on what I will be doing after 1T goes live, but I am not just thinking about myself I am thinking about all the other players who are in a similar situation and may want to level an alt and craft for it, and not be stuck using only whatever set they happen to find in the zone they are running in which probably wont be one they want anyways.

Personally, I think they need to revert the node distribution to something very close to what it was at launch, your alliance zones drop Iron/high iron/dwarven/etc/etc, then your Silver and Gold Alliance zones drop the appropriate mats they did before, and leave the CP150+ materials for Cyrodil/Wrothgar/Craglorn/Hews/Gold Coast/[insert next DLC zone here]. It actually solves the problem totally because if I need Galentite I know exactly where I can go farm it, no need to rely on RNG to bless me or hope someone else isnt gouging everyone on the prices of it and such.

STEVIL

@CrazySonoran
"Personally, I think they need to revert the node distribution to something very close to what it was at launch, your alliance zones drop Iron/high iron/dwarven/etc/etc, then your Silver and Gold Alliance zones drop the appropriate mats they did before, and leave the CP150+ materials for Cyrodil/Wrothgar/Craglorn/Hews/Gold Coast/[insert next DLC zone here]. It actually solves the problem totally because if I need Galentite I know exactly where I can go farm it, no need to rely on RNG to bless me or hope someone else isnt gouging everyone on the prices of it and such."

Bad idea.

That divorces nodes providing "useful mats" from character needs.

Characters grouping cross alliance have 1-2 at least in a zone giving crappy stuff.
Charscters running daily quests anywhere else but one z9ne get crappy mats.
Characters choosing to not follow the one true path for progression thru content get crappy mats.
Characters choosing are alts who jump a chunk of cp at 50 but who run the one true path get crappy mats.


In short for the majority of players, the divorce between character and nodes-set-by-zone reaches critical mass. The mass of players just grabbing nodes as they play thru dont get what they need, but for sure the master crafters eill stock up and sell them plenty at the shortage inflated prices.

Marrying nodes-you-find to character needs will put more useful/usable mats in the hands of more characters.
Thats an economic model to mitigate, reduce or sometimes prevent shortages and make sure however you play, whoever you play with, wherever you get to... every node ties its yield to your capabilities.

Much better than now.
Much better than if they did OneT and kept zoned-nodes.
Could be even better if they dropped bottom limit gesr cap on mats.

Will mean some have to do thing differently, like every patch.

anitajoneb17_ESO

CrazySonoran wrote: »

Personally, I think they need to revert the node distribution to something very close to what it was at launch, your alliance zones drop Iron/high iron/dwarven/etc/etc, then your Silver and Gold Alliance zones drop the appropriate mats they did before, and leave the CP150+ materials for Cyrodil/Wrothgar/Craglorn/Hews/Gold Coast/[insert next DLC zone here]. It actually solves the problem totally because if I need Galentite I know exactly where I can go farm it, no need to rely on RNG to bless me or hope someone else isnt gouging everyone on the prices of it and such.

Well, if you think of yourself, you said you had mats stocked up already, so your problem is solved.
If you think of others, include those who don't have access to DLC zones (yes, there are many of them). Access to CP160 mats are a real problem to them right now, it won't be anymore in OT.

CrazySonoran

Stevil, as it is now it divorces WAY more people from the Tier 2-9 mats. Myself included, all of my 11 characters are either under chaaracter level 7, capped, have no training in any crafts or have it maxed. I of at least 4 people who are in a similar situation, so would be totally screwed if the 1T system as it is goes live.

A slight modification would be if the zone has a chance to drop either zone level specific or character crafting level as it is now in a lot of zones, as apposed to dropping all cp150+ if I am cp150+ and max crafting. So Auridon could drop either Iron or whatever tier material your passives allow you to work. Not just iron, and not just Rubedite.

I may have a lot of mats right now but not an insane amount, I can probably make 2-7 sets of gear out of any one given material. But what will happen if I don't have access to Tier 2-9 for a while, I will slowly run out and be forced to level an alt to the appropriate level to farm a specific item I might need for one of various reasons.

Bottom line is we ABSOLUTELY need to have a way that we can get materials of every tier without being forced into a certain play style like to level an alt, respec our mains, or do writs praying we'll get 25 of the item we need, you know how RNGezus can be fickle. I think I have a better chance of getting struck by lightning than getting the Ebon Ore I might need while I need it and not after. Thats if I want to do writs which right now are a waste of materials unless you get lucky and get a survey report. I really hope ZOS figures something out. My biggest beef is being forced to find ways to be able to do what I have been able to do since launch. I shouldn't be forced to level crafting on all 12 of my alts, I shouldn't be forced to do writs, etc.

STEVIL

CrazySonoran wrote: »

Stevil, as it is now it divorces WAY more people from the Tier 2-9 mats. Myself included, all of my 11 characters are either under chaaracter level 7, capped, have no training in any crafts or have it maxed. I of at least 4 people who are in a similar situation, so would be totally screwed if the 1T system as it is goes live.

A slight modification would be if the zone has a chance to drop either zone level specific or character crafting level as it is now in a lot of zones, as apposed to dropping all cp150+ if I am cp150+ and max crafting. So Auridon could drop either Iron or whatever tier material your passives allow you to work. Not just iron, and not just Rubedite.

I may have a lot of mats right now but not an insane amount, I can probably make 2-7 sets of gear out of any one given material. But what will happen if I don't have access to Tier 2-9 for a while, I will slowly run out and be forced to level an alt to the appropriate level to farm a specific item I might need for one of various reasons.

Bottom line is we ABSOLUTELY need to have a way that we can get materials of every tier without being forced into a certain play style like to level an alt, respec our mains, or do writs praying we'll get 25 of the item we need, you know how RNGezus can be fickle. I think I have a better chance of getting struck by lightning than getting the Ebon Ore I might need while I need it and not after. Thats if I want to do writs which right now are a waste of materials unless you get lucky and get a survey report. I really hope ZOS figures something out. My biggest beef is being forced to find ways to be able to do what I have been able to do since launch. I shouldn't be forced to level crafting on all 12 of my alts, I shouldn't be forced to do writs, etc.

How are all of your characters screwed?
Chatacters under 7 with no skill can harvest tier one mats useful for them Since both skill and char are at tier 1 this will be 100% what they need.
Characters under 7 with max craft dkill will harvest hslf tier 1 useful for them and halfvtier 10 useful by your capped.
Charscters at cap but eith no skill will get half at cap useful for them and half tier 1 useful for your lowers.
Those at cap and max skill get 100% tier 10 useful for them

Every mat any of those characters harvest seems usable for or by themselv3s or others.

The INSTANT one of those characters hit level 16 or skill 2, they start finding tier 2 mats.

That is a definition of screwed i sm unfamiliar with.

Now, my advise is that with all those tier 1 mats dropping, when a character hit 14 and you are eyeing getting tp 16 soon but only then starting to harvest mats - then at 14 craft level 14 gear top of tier to wear thru your tier 2 harvesting days. Then when you near tier three use your accumulated tier 2s to build top tier 2 gear to carry you thru tier 3 harvest... etc etc etc.
Its a trivial change in operations but it better suits the harvest tied to level scheme than the old craft at bottom of tier does.

"My characters (and all characters) only get mats they can use or are useful for them" = "screwed"???

Priceless.

As for this
My biggest beef is being forced to find ways to be able to do what I have been able to do since launch.


In every update of consequence, people have to adjust the way some things are done.

Alastrine

So, I'm NOT on the test server but what I'm reading here is that with the new update all of my toons will only be able to harvest mats for whatever level they are skilled for.

My main toon, my first one, farms for all my toons, she is my crafter. If this is true, she will no longer be able to do that. Also, 2 of my trade guilds are in starter zone areas, so I harvest mats and such to sell in those guilds.. higher level mats would not sell there. In order to farm all level of mats for my trade guilds I would need toons that 'stay' at different skill levels just to be able to do that? Am I understanding that right or have I got something messed up?
**Edited, I left out the word "NOT" on the test server in my first version.

STEVIL

Alastrine wrote: »

So, I'm on the test server but what I'm reading here is that with the new update all of my toons will only be able to harvest mats for whatever level they are skilled for.

My main toon, my first one, farms for all my toons, she is my crafter. If this is true, she will no longer be able to do that. Also, 2 of my trade guilds are in starter zone areas, so I harvest mats and such to sell in those guilds.. higher level mats would not sell there. In order to farm all level of mats for my trade guilds I would need toons that 'stay' at different skill levels just to be able to do that? Am I understanding that right or have I got something messed up?

Every char will harvest nodes split between their skill and their level.
So a lvl 50 cp 160 blacksmith able to work tier 10 but only woodwork for tier one would find all rubedite ore but the wood would be maple half the time and ruby ash the other time.

All your other chars would harvest based on their level in skill half the time and their character level too.

Every character everywhere will harvest mats applicable to them.

DaveMoeDee

CrazySonoran wrote: »

There are many hundreds of other reasons why a high level character may want to harvest lower level materials as well, not just for personal use.

Please list 100 of those many hundreds of other reasons.

Hammy01

In my opinion, the easiest way to get around this problem is to craft now (before the DLC drops) both magicka and stamina lv 10,20,30,40 set pieces and the save them to your bank. They are all account bound so going forth this should cover any and all new characters you wish to level up.

Of course this does nothing for the new players that want crafted gear for their level.

wookikiller95

what about the crafting writs?!
Should i Open the Boxes now or After the Patch, wann make more Money

Alastrine

STEVIL wrote: »

Alastrine wrote: »

So, I'm on the test server but what I'm reading here is that with the new update all of my toons will only be able to harvest mats for whatever level they are skilled for.

My main toon, my first one, farms for all my toons, she is my crafter. If this is true, she will no longer be able to do that. Also, 2 of my trade guilds are in starter zone areas, so I harvest mats and such to sell in those guilds.. higher level mats would not sell there. In order to farm all level of mats for my trade guilds I would need toons that 'stay' at different skill levels just to be able to do that? Am I understanding that right or have I got something messed up?

Every char will harvest nodes split between their skill and their level.
So a lvl 50 cp 160 blacksmith able to work tier 10 but only woodwork for tier one would find all rubedite ore but the wood would be maple half the time and ruby ash the other time.

All your other chars would harvest based on their level in skill half the time and their character level too.

Every character everywhere will harvest mats applicable to them.

Thanks. Well, its been fun playing these couple of years.. over 6K hours in the game. All good things come to an end sometime.
What a stupid setup this will be, I might as well quit my trade guilds now. Farming now and saving in my bank might help my crafting but it does nothing for helping me keep my guild shelves full on an ongoing basis. What I could save now will keep me going for maybe a couple of weeks and that's it.
How dumb is this.. so I develop just one crafter and all my other toons have to be held at different skill levels in crafting in order to have ongoing access to different level mats.. and even that is only a 50/50 chance unless I don't even play them or level them up past a certain level... Now I understand why two people I know have already given away all of their stuff and quit playing in anticipation of this. I had hoped they were wrong in what they were saying but it appears not.
Makes me laugh, what an outstandingly stupid idea for the crafting/trading community.

Asardes

You don't need to harvest in order to craft gear for your alts. Just make them deconstruct all the trash white/green/blue gear that drops of mobs and that's always at their level and you'll have the needed materials in no time. Just craft it at the highest level in that tier to be sure you've gathered enough materials and only craft every 10 levels. Level 14/24/34/44, preferably training gear is enough, and then you can make directly CP150-160, depending on your CP. I reuse the same training gear for all my tunes to save even more effort. That's the strategy I used while leveling, and even had enough materials to sell the surplus on guild stores after I crafted the gear. To me CP150-160 material is important for crafting gear, CP90-140 for gear writs (as I don't like wasting the former), and the rest is just trash I want to rid myself of rather quickly.

Alastrine

This game had a wide appeal for a lot of different types of players. It had the pve, the pvp and then the crafting/farming aspect and so on.
My enjoyment in the game is farming / crafting and the business aspect of my trade guilds. Not interested in pvp, dueling, etc. Don't care for always having to find a group to do the new HIST dungeons (what a waste that is for solo players). I work every day in a high-stress job, I look to ESO to decompress. Farm, sell/trade, watch the gold pile up - much of which I use to help new players (I've bought more horses for new players than I can count.. just because it feels good to do it for them).

I understand what people are advising here about having enough mats to craft for your own characters. That is not my concern. That is a paltry amount in the grand scheme of things.

My concern is for my trade guilds where I sell ALL level of mats every day, ongoing, in a number of guilds.

In order to continue to sell all levels of mats I will need to have one toon that I never quest, never level past level 14 to be my farmer for iron/maple/jute. Go get enough shards to put skill points in the skills that will let them detect nodes and thats it. Done, don't ever quest with that toon again. Just farm with them. One character slot gone.
Another toon for high iron ore/flax etc. Never quest with that one past level 24. Couple points in the crafting so thats the level they are at there, and done. Thats it for that toon. Another character slot gone.
And so on.
Then I will be able to have a solid, ongoing supply of every level of mat for my trade guilds (and my crafter).
As for writs.... I agree with CrazySonoran - I don't like being forced to do anything just to get basic mats of different levels. I worked hard to get my top character to the crafting level she is at. Years. She should be able to go and harvest mats of all levels.

Writs should be something I want to do because they might give me something special - like Kuta for enchantment writs and so on, not because I HAVE to do them just to MAYBE get some basic mats I need.
Yea........

As for this... "In every update of consequence, people have to adjust the way some things are done."

This isn't 'some things' for me. This is the entire game and what I enjoy about it. But then I am only one person so if I quit it really matters not at all.

And how does this affect something like Nirn drops in Craglorn? If a level 12 with no crafting points goes there (as I understand Craglorn will be open to all levels - another dumb idea) and is harvesting will Nirn be dropping on nodes that are iron and maple for them? Or only if you are higher level/skilled player? Not to mention the farming frenzy for Nirn there will be with only 'one' Craglorn instance instead of three...

STEVIL

@Alastrine
"My concern is for my trade guilds where I sell ALL level of mats every day, ongoing, in a number of guilds."

I think the biggest hit to this is that every character everywhere will be harvesting mats useful for them whether they have spent skill points or not. This means more characters having the mats themselves.

While that might be good for most characters and good for the gameplay overall it will almost certainly hit those who are focused on harvesting gold off of other players by exploiting shortages in mats at the right levels the older system promoted.

People having easier access to what they need reduces their need to buy and a steady flow of mats into the game at levels in sync with the characters being played will definitely reduce the frequency and severity of exploitable shortages.

But again, every update of any significance changes how something gets done for someone and often this means some have to find new ways to get things done.

And every time, some of those get upset while others see it as a goid thing for many more.

Asardes

Well, nirnhoned is not such a good trait after the last couple of updates, especially for end game. Sharpened on weapons and divines on armor, or infused for big pieces if you are tank, or impenetrable if you PvP are far more useful. Basically nirnhoned items are on demand just to research the 9th trait for crafting some sets. And the drop rate for it will double. So the prices will probably plummet after One Tamriel, reducing the incentive to farm and sell it. Prices have already halved over the last 4-5 months and will most likely drop further. On EU PC potent nirncrux is already down to ~15-17K from a high of 25-30K a few months ago, and the fortified is barely 4K, from a high of 8-10K. So overcrowding/farming Craglorn doesn't look like a big issue.

Asardes

IMO is a bad idea to make a low level character master crafter. I concentrate on making them viable, flexible builds that can do endgame content, then grabbing the skill points to also make them good enough crafters to do the writs while they are "idle". And the higher the writ level, the better the rewards: doing tier 1 woodworking writ has very slim chances of dropping that rosin or glass motif fragment. I've noticed that tier 9 gear writs are more sustainable because I can make up the loss in materials by deconstructing the trash that drops in dungeons and overland content. Deconstructing tier 10 will only net you 1 material, or 3 if it's intricate. I also have a lot of tier 9 materials in storage. I really see no point in keeping every tier. If low level chars want me to craft gear, they can bring their own materials that can be gotten the same way I mentioned above - simply breaking down the trash that every mob drops. You'll have piles of every material in ~15 minutes of looting and deconstructing.

Kas

CrazySonoran wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That's the part where you're wrong. The node has 50% chance to drop a material adjusted to your character's level, and 50% chance to drop a material adjusted to your crafting level. Zone level doesn't exist any more.

What you describe is working as intended : if you harvest wood with a CP300+ char with crafting maxed out and 10 points in the first wood passive, you'll get 100% CP150 materials.
Try removing those skill points from the first wood passive, on that same character, you'll find 50% CP150 mats and 50% lvl1 mats.

3 options :

- Do crafting writs with your main : they will drop either a survey, OR a "stack" of 25 of a random lower level material.
- Harvest with an alt of the required level
- Respec and remove / add skill points on your main (or any other character for that matter) until the required level, and go harvesting.

Obviously the first option is the "easiest one" and the way ZOS intends us to proceed.

Zones dropping materials based on character level and crafting level does sound like how PTS is setup now that you mention it.

Option one wouldn't work at all. Can only do one writ a day for a small chance of a "stack" of whatever you may need doesn't sound good at all. Be just my luck I'd REALLY need Ebon Ore and I'd get a survey or one of the other many tiers' "stacks" that I didn't need.

Option two may work but I don't really want, and shouldn't have, to spend points on crafting passives on all of my lower level alts just to get gear made for them. I maxed out my main specifically so I didn't HAVE to level crafting on 12 characters. Also, consider the fact that the lower level alt will be only able to harvest the materials for the levels they are about to pass, by the time I get enough High Iron the character will be moving on to the next tier. Cant harvest High Iron between level 10 and 14 in preparation for when they ding 16 and need the new armor.

Option three is just flat out silly.... I'll tell you what, you send me the gold it takes to respec 310+ skill points every time I need to change tiers I need to harvest and I'll vote for you in the next election.

There are many hundreds of other reasons why a high level character may want to harvest lower level materials as well, not just for personal use. Equipping guild members, selling stuff on the market are just two. We REALLY need a reliable way to harvest whatever level material we need when we need it and not have to jump through hoops to do so. If this change goes through the price of lvl 14-cp140 materials will skyrocket and go out of the price range of most players.

if you're looking for practical solutions:
1) play the ~5-8h it takes to reach lvl 50 with dropped grear. if you want to, keep lvl 10 training trait gear in your bank for furtehr alt.
2) buy mats a guild trader. many endgame players will retrieve tons of mats through writs and hirelings on low-crafting lvl alts (much easiert to have 4*3 skillpoints left than 40+ pts) which they will never need (there already are so many players with 10-12 maxlvl chars)
3) decon whatever drops for your alt. should easily be enough to build a set of armor for the appropriate level.

Anazasi

can we just get a player with a PhD in Economy to start speculating with real numbers for supply and demand. when you hit end game does it really matter in the grand scheme of things if you cant find level 1 mats?

STEVIL

A Tale of Two Tails

When they allowed us to buy new character slots, i bought four.

The first character i started was a khajiit stamina sorc.
The second was an Argonian "Red" DragonKnight (focused on fire and magica.)
Wont worry about the third and fourth right yet.

The Argonian played thru the usual content - holding off some of the main questline but finishing the mages and fighter guild, taking many but not necessarily all of the side quests. Did not overlevel the content as much as had seen in earlier characters. For that character during the levels of 4-50, started with iron-jute-maple gear (lots of tier-1 mats available since every non-crafter running with scaled nodes harvest 505 tier 1.)

Made one slight alteration to "crafting as usual" routine - crafted at top of tier using mats harvested along the way during that tier. So at level 14, used mats i harvested along during questing to provide for a set of level 14 armor. So during 3-14 i casually gathered lots of tier-1 and used that to make level 14 top of tier one gear to wear during levels 16-24(?) while i casually harvested mats that i would provide for crafting me a set of level 24 gear that i would wear for levels 26-35 while casually harvesting mats at that level etc.

Worked like a charm. it is slightly different than the old way but just fine.

But still as the character finished COLDHARBOR Hollow City region and walked across the bridge to the Chasm, the Argonian hit level 50 and jumped to Cp160 gear cap. At this point the character still has the rest of Coldharbor left, still has several quests for the main story line left and then has the silver and gold zones left if i do something as simple and commonplace as play through the content.

here is where the tale of two tails gets to its key point.

Tail One

Right now today on live, if i do just that, play through the content as intended, i will be facing half of coldharbor, the main story quests and five silver zones (whole zones) of content where the mats i can casually harvest, all the nodes except for alchemy, provide me basically useless mats from the perspective of gearing up that character. Cold harbor is dropping IIRC 46-49 level, maybe some cp10-30 but as soon as I hit silver i get to look forward to kresh for an entire zone.

that is a whole lot of gameplay where stopping to grab a node is a waste of time. thats a whole lot of content and zones where the node and the drops are hardly worth the inventory management.

Basically, if this character wants gear even close to their gear level - they need to go buy mats or take time away from casual gameplay following the content flow of the game.


Tail Two

In about a week on Live, right away on Coldharbor - the instant i login - the drops from enemies, the nodes, the chests etc will all be providing me gear and mats at the level of my character (character level half, skill level half) automatically. There will be no need to run off to some other zone to specifically harvest the mats i need.

As i play out the Coldharbour quests - every node and every drop is is "useful for me" (half the time useful for making mats, half the time useful for me to craft with if i do that.)

As i play out the remaining main quest line content - every node and every drop is is "useful for me" (half the time useful for making mats, half the time useful for me to craft with if i do that.)

As i play out all the silver zone quests and content - every node and every drop is is "useful for me" (half the time useful for making mats, half the time useful for me to craft with if i do that.) Even as i play out the gold zones quests and content - every node and every drop is is "useful for me" (half the time useful for making mats, half the time useful for me to craft with if i do that.) (Right now its mostly not though some drops and chests do scale a few pieces.)

So, for me and for many many character and many players just you know doing something as straightforward as playing through the content, having all nodes, all drops everywhere provide useful mats and drops as far as gear cap level and crafting level - well that means as you play wherever you play you find the stuff the game serves up is relevant to your character, not divorced from it.

That second tale is very good... for many but not all. The vast majority will find it helpful, especially since the world is shifting to a more world wide be sent all over the place by the repeatable content model.

That is why i have recommended they drop the lower limit on materials gear levels. let rubedite or kresh be used to make anything at their current material cap or lower (along the lines of the glyph changes introduced a while back.)


but even if they dont make that change, the new nodes and drops will serve the game and the majority of players a lot better.

however, even if they drop the lower limit, those focused on harvesting gold off other players by exploiting the mat-gear shortages will likely find their markets reduced because more players will find more useful mats in casual play and not need to go to guild stores as much to get mats to keep up with their progressions.

Me, i like the second tale better.

Thats why that character is sitting in Glenumbra doing writs now and waiting for OneT to drop before pursuing their remaining questing.

Asardes

Pretty much how I did it:

Leveled 1-50 and gained 64 points in alliance area just doing all quests, grabbing all books and sky shards 9 & 1/3 points per zone (3 from quests, 1 from group event in public dungeon, 16 sky shards). Did Coldharbour next - same number of skill points, but only local lore skill books. Then did the mages (2 skill points) and fighters guild quests, and left main quest last (11 skill points). By that time I had all class skills, 2 weapon, 1 armor skill maxed out with most passives assigned and abilities morphed. Continued in "silver". By the time I finished that I had mages guild at 10 with all unlocked skills morphed and at rank 4, and 5/6 craft maxed out and specced to the penultimate tier. I get banish the wicked 3/3 and rearming trap on every character, even if he's magicka build. After 1st zone in gold I also have the 6th crafting specced as well. Now the char is ready to do group content and daily crafting writs.

Alastrine

STEVIL wrote: »

@Alastrine
"My concern is for my trade guilds where I sell ALL level of mats every day, ongoing, in a number of guilds."

I think the biggest hit to this is that every character everywhere will be harvesting mats useful for them whether they have spent skill points or not. This means more characters having the mats themselves.

While that might be good for most characters and good for the gameplay overall it will almost certainly hit those who are focused on harvesting gold off of other players by exploiting shortages in mats at the right levels the older system promoted.

People having easier access to what they need reduces their need to buy and a steady flow of mats into the game at levels in sync with the characters being played will definitely reduce the frequency and severity of exploitable shortages.

But again, every update of any significance changes how something gets done for someone and often this means some have to find new ways to get things done.

And every time, some of those get upset while others see it as a goid thing for many more.

I see your point and get where you're coming from.
And yes, there is no fix that is agreeable to everyone, obviously. I'm saddened its going this way as it will change the game for myself to a huge detriment. But thats just me.
For the record, I don't think 'harvesting gold off of other players by exploiting shortages" is a very nice way to word your point. Selling mats was just another aspect of the game, it wasn't about 'exploiting' other players. No one HAS to buy anything. Many players don't like to farm, their focus is on levelling and getting to end game. They WANT to be able to go buy their mats (to do writs or whatever). I don't see that changing. If anything, I have seen an increase in new players just wanting to rush through the game and level their characters as fast as possible.
I do appreciate your time in replying, thank you.

Asardes

My guess is that there won't be a shortage of anything because in the last update on the PTS the survey report drop rate has been halved, while the node contents were double. And the writs just drop a random package of 25 lower level materials if you don't get the survey. So people doing writs at maximum level will still have plenty of lower tier materials that they don't use and will be selling them on guild stores or crafting gear for their buddies.

JKorr

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

CrazySonoran wrote: »

There are many hundreds of other reasons why a high level character may want to harvest lower level materials as well, not just for personal use.

Please list 100 of those many hundreds of other reasons.

I can't find a way to link the rosters for the guilds I belong to and am one of the crafters for. 5 guilds, average 400ish members in each. That works out to what, 2000 some reasons?

This morning my cp352 maxed smith/wood/clothing skills crafter made a set of level 12, level 32, and level 40 gear. There will be other requests waiting tonight when I get home from work and go to play. I'm also working on a set for one of my 12 characters that I need rubedite/rebedo for. 8 of my characters I've had long enough that they have outleveled all of the lower tier stuff. The 4 new characters I made I've purposely NOT leveled any crafting skills on. It doesn't feel right to restrict how I usually level my characters, but I'll see if it works or not.

JKorr

Alastrine wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

@Alastrine
"My concern is for my trade guilds where I sell ALL level of mats every day, ongoing, in a number of guilds."

I think the biggest hit to this is that every character everywhere will be harvesting mats useful for them whether they have spent skill points or not. This means more characters having the mats themselves.

While that might be good for most characters and good for the gameplay overall it will almost certainly hit those who are focused on harvesting gold off of other players by exploiting shortages in mats at the right levels the older system promoted.

People having easier access to what they need reduces their need to buy and a steady flow of mats into the game at levels in sync with the characters being played will definitely reduce the frequency and severity of exploitable shortages.

But again, every update of any significance changes how something gets done for someone and often this means some have to find new ways to get things done.

And every time, some of those get upset while others see it as a goid thing for many more.

I see your point and get where you're coming from.
And yes, there is no fix that is agreeable to everyone, obviously. I'm saddened its going this way as it will change the game for myself to a huge detriment. But thats just me.
For the record, I don't think 'harvesting gold off of other players by exploiting shortages" is a very nice way to word your point. Selling mats was just another aspect of the game, it wasn't about 'exploiting' other players. No one HAS to buy anything. Many players don't like to farm, their focus is on levelling and getting to end game. They WANT to be able to go buy their mats (to do writs or whatever). I don't see that changing. If anything, I have seen an increase in new players just wanting to rush through the game and level their characters as fast as possible.
I do appreciate your time in replying, thank you.

He thinks that every crafter is out to bleed any customers out of all the gold they can. Its a constant theme in his posts in every thread that discusses this.

Even after its been pointed out that many people don't charge anything. For two of my guilds, all gear is made for free. The cp160 stuff the person has to provide the mats for, but the crafting is free. I only wish I was making gold the way STEVIL thinks every crafter is. I'd have a lot more gold to go out and get more motifs so I can craft more for my guilds that don't pay me anything. Biggest tip I've ever gotten was 2 potent nirn.

STEVIL

Alastrine wrote: »

For the record, I don't think 'harvesting gold off of other players by exploiting shortages" is a very nice way to word your point.

its accurate tho. key point is if you are worried about the change in your ability to make gold off other players (as you admitted) the bigger hit to your wallet will come from other characters having what they need not from you having to find new ways to get lower level nodes.

See, as you have already noted, there are ways if you want to maintain a steady supply of all levels of mats.
you are in complete control of those aspects. You can choose to get characters at the right levels and the right skills to keep access to all nodes at all levels.

Sure its different but... if that is key to your - how did you put it "This is the entire game and what I enjoy about it. "... yeah that was it.

Well then by making different choices than you do now and getting skills spent differently than you do now and maybe doing a bit of work to get to a new characters and skill spend setup you can get back to being able to send a character to harvest nodes of any level at any time.

better yet, they wont have to even travel. Choose the right character and wherever they are... bam... the exact mats you want.

So, your characters being denied access? thats entirely now in your control for that one piece of the "This is the entire game and what I enjoy about it. " operation.

BUT you and i both know without a doubt that is only a piece of the operation, right?

You could have ten million mats of every level delivered in your inbox daily and wouldn't be able to sell them as long as the other characters in the game got it too, right?

in order for you to make gold off other characters for selling mats you have to have other characters in sufficient numbers who dont have mats they need.

the part of the new system you and other marketers cannot control that will hit your bottom line the most is that other characters will get mats and drops keyed to their needs.

based on what i have seen, a good deal of (it seems to me the majority of) the outrage by marketers over the new system keep coming back to divorcing the harvesting of other characters from nodes they need. They keep saying "hey lets lock zones" in one way or another as an answer to "i wont be able to harvest mats of any level as easily."

but see, when i suggest instead "hey, lets make mats able to be used at any level they can now AND LOWER so all the nodes you harvest as master crafters will enable you to craft for anyone?" that doesn't seem to be the same argument solution they want.

The marketers solutions - Change the plan to prevent the part of the change that gets everyone their mats.
My Solution - Change the plan to allow more flexibility for use of the higher end mats so marketers can use them for any level gear.

key is, major difference is, my solution deals with the need of the crafters to gets mats they can use to craft lower end gear while their zone lock solutions deal with the reduced need of other characters to buy mats at all if the other characters get them easily, readily for free with drops and casual gameplay.




as for nice enough?

is it nicer than... less nice than... or about the same niceyness as the following?

What a stupid setup this will be

How dumb is this