[Video] Healbotting

ataggs

@Joy_Division does it hurt to be so wise? You say all the things I wish I was smart enough to think!

RadioheadSh0t

Meetre wrote: »

There is a counter to every mechanic in this game. Just because you don't have it slotted in the fight does not mean it isn't there to use. I run a healer only in pvp. I swap skills on my bar at least every five minutes to what is the most appropriate for the situation I think I'm going into. You should do the same.

Been playing since beta, so I don't need the notes. I don't know many, if any, 1vX players who change their skills up every five minutes, not to mention the impracticality of that mindset.

At any moment you could be fighting any one of the eight classes, or a combination of them, so you need to have well-rounded builds that are more affective against all types of enemies. You're a healer only, so as a healer you have one role, to heal the DD, so I doubt you have much if any experience in 1v1/1vX, so probably not the best idea to give advice to players who've been maining a class since beta.

So, the biggest counter to Magplars is major defile, which I don't have access to as a Mag Sorc, so there are no skills I can swap out every five minutes that will change that, and both of my gold weapons have disease enchants, yet still these cheeseplars have no problem burst healing through my damage. The amount of bad players playing Templar right now is through the roof.

Joy_Division

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

When damage increases, and it has by a ridiculous amount, healing must keep pace with it. Damage dealers have near infinite sustain, high burst, multiple proc sets, and complain when this damage gets countered by "cancer" builds that involve blocking, healing, shielding, heavy armor. What a bunch of BS. It's the damage builds that are the cancer; it's bad enough they have all that, but they get so much damage avoidance and healing themselves to pair with it.

Now I'm reading that people have issues with templars showing up and healing players not in the group. Too damn bad if you have problems with it. I have a problem with damage dealers showing up and aiding non-group members by crit rushing - dawnbreakering - reverse slicing enemies attacking said non-group members.

What you´re describing about dmg dealers is absolutely 100% the stamina procc meta which everyone agrees on is absolute bullpoo.
The problem with healing is: Healing is able to keep up with the rediculous amounts of dmg a procc build can throw out. That basically leaves every other "dmg" build out of the window once a properly built healer shows up (especially ranged builds - why the *** is there still a bonus for blocking projectiles when they´re already the weakest form of dmg in the game).

As a magica sorc even if i set up my rotation perfectly and my target does not dodge or block i won´t be able to kill them when there is a templar standing nearby spamming one button.
That means basically a 5 button dps sequence involving an ultimate is hardcountered by 1 button being spammed rapidly with the gamesystems doing 100% of the work - because the healing has to keep up with what stamina proccbuilds can dish out in one button press.


When a random dmg dealer shows up - you can cc them, pressure them, most likely even kill them really fast because they can´t coordinate with their allies over ts.
When a random templar shows up holding block spamming 1 button there is absolutely nothing a non nightblade can do (and even on a nightblade you need an absurd amount of luck). An add tankhealer gets more effective (lol) when you actually focus on them. An add dps gets less effective when focused on because they can no longer reliably dmg because they have to defend themselves.

On a sidenote: I think vicious death was never ever meant to be outhealed. It was supposed to blow up ppl who stack together in a really close proximity - same with the "stupid amounts of aoe". The only aoe i´m noticing at all atm in this game is siege when it bugs out and does not show red circles.


Last i believe it would be really easy to change the healing system for smartheals to only work in a cone in the direction the camera is facing. This would impact "good" healers with situational awareness very little while it would absolutely shatter the hold block trololo111111!!!elfluribolg meta for bad trollplars.

Damage has been crazy since 1.6 dropped. It was so bad ZoS had to put in 50% battlespirit. The stam proc meta is just the tip of the iceberg. Powercreep keeps getting worse with every patch.

You have a problem that your sorcerer cant out damage the incoming heals from a templar ... and the target's own actions? If a healer can't do that it's pointless to even be one.

Damage dealers will never be satisfied until they can press their 'perfect' rotation and score an automatic kill.

When ZoS nerfs your damage toys, all of you get in an uproar. Even the stupid OP vMA axes and daggers which were ridiculously overperforming, has prompted so many DPS to complain.

Yet, DPS have no problem crying to ZoS that shields, dodge, block, heals, sets, barrier, whatever are "cancers" and demand nerfs. How many nerfs to BoL will it take to satisfy you? DPs whine and whined and ZoS listen and took away and entire heal. Then DPS whined about LoS and ZoS changed it so even a tree could block heals. Now we are still cancers so now you want us only healing in a 60% angle.

How much situational awareness does it take DPs to spam gap closers when there target is inconveniently at range and dizzying blow, dizzying blow, dizzying blow, reverse slice?

DPS have it just as easy to be cancers as tanks and healers. ESO was meant to be beer and preztels. OK someone mentioned that having easy mode damage and easy mode heals is undesirable. When the damage dealers volunteer to give up their OP gap-closers that have no cooldown, their own overly effective heals and damage avoidance mechanics, their own trololo111111!!!elfluribolg spam, then I'll stop making a case for ESO's healing.

MoeCoastie

i like the build, I like the purpose of the build, I play my Templar very similar so I guess Im bias....or old school. whatever you wanna call it.

As far as people claiming they cant burst down someone being healed by a templar like this:

this is a team game, ASSIST!

RadioheadSh0t

MoeCoastie wrote: »

i like the build, I like the purpose of the build, I play my Templar very similar so I guess Im bias....or old school. whatever you wanna call it.

As far as people claiming they cant burst down someone being healed by a templar like this:

this is a team game, ASSIST!

So, in other words: Go screw yourself solo players.

Manoekin

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

MoeCoastie wrote: »

i like the build, I like the purpose of the build, I play my Templar very similar so I guess Im bias....or old school. whatever you wanna call it.

As far as people claiming they cant burst down someone being healed by a templar like this:

this is a team game, ASSIST!

So, in other words: Go screw yourself solo players.

Wait, ZOS is screwing solo players? I see plenty of those running around having success. "I didn't win that fight by mashing button x because enemy player z was mashing button y" is not a valid argument.

Lexxypwns

I'm just saying, for this so called "cheese build" all you need is 2 people to foucs him down, that's not true for reactive/maluplars. I personally didn't love watching the video, but I know that its a play style that is immensely rewarding and that requires self sacrifice to even attempt, on top of that you need very good movement, positioning, and situational awareness to play healer well in pvp.

Every healer isn't a cheese build guys, sometimes you just run what helps your group the most.

HoloYoitsu

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I'm just saying, for this so called "cheese build" all you need is 2 people to foucs him down, that's not true for reactive/maluplars. I personally didn't love watching the video, but I know that its a play style that is immensely rewarding and that requires self sacrifice to even attempt, on top of that you need very good movement, positioning, and situational awareness to play healer well in pvp.

Every healer isn't a cheese build guys, sometimes you just run what helps your group the most.

You don't seem to understand, grouping is a cheese tactic. Anything that requires teamwork to beat is unfair. if I have to change my build and give up dmg for defile debuffs to kill someone, then they're cancer.

Meetre

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Been playing since beta, so I don't need the notes. I don't know many, if any, 1vX players who change their skills up every five minutes, not to mention the impracticality of that mindset.

At any moment you could be fighting any one of the eight classes, or a combination of them, so you need to have well-rounded builds that are more affective against all types of enemies. You're a healer only, so as a healer you have one role, to heal the DD, so I doubt you have much if any experience in 1v1/1vX, so probably not the best idea to give advice to players who've been maining a class since beta.

So, the biggest counter to Magplars is major defile, which I don't have access to as a Mag Sorc, so there are no skills I can swap out every five minutes that will change that, and both of my gold weapons have disease enchants, yet still these cheeseplars have no problem burst healing through my damage. The amount of bad players playing Templar right now is through the roof.

If you've been playing since beta, you should have learned to adapt by now. Swap a skill in for the situation you are in to give you the best advantage for what you are going to do. And your assumption about my experience in 1vx has done what assumptions do....

If you think major defile is the best way to handle a magplar, you should re-think that, because there are more effective ways. And to say a person is a "cheeseplar" and a bad player because you can't kill them seems childish. I can walk out of a zerg of 20+ who don't know what they are doing fighting a templar and still there are players out there who can wreck me by themselves in a 10 seconds if they know what they are doing.

HoloYoitsu

I wonder how ppl who complain about not being able to kill healing Templars (which they admit can do no dps) ever managed to make it through launch - 1.6 in the world of permablock mag DK when it had working GDB?

RadioheadSh0t

Manoekin wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

MoeCoastie wrote: »

i like the build, I like the purpose of the build, I play my Templar very similar so I guess Im bias....or old school. whatever you wanna call it.

As far as people claiming they cant burst down someone being healed by a templar like this:

this is a team game, ASSIST!

So, in other words: Go screw yourself solo players.

Wait, ZOS is screwing solo players? I see plenty of those running around having success. "I didn't win that fight by mashing button x because enemy player z was mashing button y" is not a valid argument.

Sure, if that was my argument that wouldn't be valid, but it's not. It doesn't matter what combo you hit if a player can negate all incoming damage with one burst heal on top of heavy armor negating damage and adding to healing received.

I was referring to the commenter, not ZOS, but how many of those successful solo players are stamina players running Cancer (i.e., Veli/Viper) setups? Even still, I have a hard time finding solo players to fight against these days. A lot of Templars here who only run in groups commenting on balance or how solo players should play. I've grouped with you back in Decibel, so I know you're a very good player Mano, but there are a ton of bad Templars these days rewarded by poor game mechanics. Previously the trade off for healing was wearing LA and being squishy; now you can be tanky and out heal almost all incoming damage with just one BoL.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I'm just saying, for this so called "cheese build" all you need is 2 people to foucs him down, that's not true for reactive/maluplars. I personally didn't love watching the video, but I know that its a play style that is immensely rewarding and that requires self sacrifice to even attempt, on top of that you need very good movement, positioning, and situational awareness to play healer well in pvp.

Every healer isn't a cheese build guys, sometimes you just run what helps your group the most.

I'm not saying all healers are cheese builds, but it's kind of silly to tell solo players "all you need is two people." That goes against the definition of "solo."

I have no problem with players grouping or healing in PvP, like people are twisting my complaints into, my problem is mostly with the absurd levels of self healing from one BoL compared to outgoing sustain damage without gimmick Cancer sets.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I'm just saying, for this so called "cheese build" all you need is 2 people to foucs him down, that's not true for reactive/maluplars. I personally didn't love watching the video, but I know that its a play style that is immensely rewarding and that requires self sacrifice to even attempt, on top of that you need very good movement, positioning, and situational awareness to play healer well in pvp.

Every healer isn't a cheese build guys, sometimes you just run what helps your group the most.

You don't seem to understand, grouping is a cheese tactic. Anything that requires teamwork to beat is unfair. if I have to change my build and give up dmg for defile debuffs to kill someone, then they're cancer.

Please, show me how to get major defile on a magicka sorc. Sure, I could hop on my NB or Stam DK and follow the meta, but I'm not commenting on how to attack the troll plars as those classes, I'm talking about as a mag Sorc.

Meetre wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Been playing since beta, so I don't need the notes. I don't know many, if any, 1vX players who change their skills up every five minutes, not to mention the impracticality of that mindset.

At any moment you could be fighting any one of the eight classes, or a combination of them, so you need to have well-rounded builds that are more affective against all types of enemies. You're a healer only, so as a healer you have one role, to heal the DD, so I doubt you have much if any experience in 1v1/1vX, so probably not the best idea to give advice to players who've been maining a class since beta.

So, the biggest counter to Magplars is major defile, which I don't have access to as a Mag Sorc, so there are no skills I can swap out every five minutes that will change that, and both of my gold weapons have disease enchants, yet still these cheeseplars have no problem burst healing through my damage. The amount of bad players playing Templar right now is through the roof.

If you've been playing since beta, you should have learned to adapt by now. Swap a skill in for the situation you are in to give you the best advantage for what you are going to do. And your assumption about my experience in 1vx has done what assumptions do....

If you think major defile is the best way to handle a magplar, you should re-think that, because there are more effective ways. And to say a person is a "cheeseplar" and a bad player because you can't kill them seems childish. I can walk out of a zerg of 20+ who don't know what they are doing fighting a templar and still there are players out there who can wreck me by themselves in a 10 seconds if they know what they are doing.

I didnt assume, genius, you said yourself you "only play healer." Can't "only play healer" and also solo.

If you think constantly swapping out your skills because of what "might" be around the corner is a valid suggestion, it's not, and really proves you don't have much solo experience. I have no problem working things into my build to counter problems, but as a solo player you can run into anything at any moment and need a build that is built to handle multiple different types of enemies at any given time or at the same time.

RadioheadSh0t

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

I wonder how ppl who complain about not being able to kill healing Templars (which they admit can do no dps) ever managed to make it through launch - 1.6 in the world of permablock mag DK when it had working GDB?

Just because Templars are not at 1.5 Mag DK levels of OPness doesn't mean there aren't balance issues that need to be addressed. I'm really not just trying to hate on Templars, but I think BoL's self heal is too strong right now and there aren't many non-Templars who disagree with that statement.

I'd rather it heal yourself and two others for the same amount than give the caster ridiculous self-healing.

HoloYoitsu

Radiogeadsh0t wrote:

Please, show me how to get major defile on a magicka sorc. Sure, I could hop on my NB or Stam DK and follow the meta, but I'm not commenting on how to attack the troll plars as those classes, I'm talking about as a mag Sorc.

First off, the 50k HP heavy armor trollplar isn't anything new, Zheg's been doing that since 1.6, it's just in the last months that ppl have begun adopting that en mass thanks to the ridiculous stam burst meta. Do you think that all Templars like running around in heavy armor lower spell dmg/lower max mag builds where their ability to kill is pretty much zero?

Second, please explain coherently why someone sacrificing all their killing power to make a tank build that you can't solo kill 1v1 is some horrible bad thing? Part of being a solo sorc is picking the right targets and knowing which fights you dip out of. Your argument that it "goes against the definition of solo" is just pedantic. We aren't concerned about the definition of words, this is about game balance.

And yes, as a mag sorc I can tell you exactly how you deal with the 50k trollplars. You blink away, the whole concept of mag sorc soloing is you pick and choose engagements. For sure, sorc is in a sht spot right now thanks to Wrobel destroying kiting ability, but that's a separate issue. Even excluding that, have a better chance of killing him than he has of killing you, since you can actually make damages.

I can tell you right now that outside of getting one shot off my horse, I pretty much never lost a 1v1 on my sorc from launch till the IC block nerf. What kinda cheese cancer does that make me?

Meetre

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

I didnt assume, genius, you said yourself you "only play healer." Can't "only play healer" and also solo.

If you think constantly swapping out your skills because of what "might" be around the corner is a valid suggestion, it's not, and really proves you don't have much solo experience. I have no problem working things into my build to counter problems, but as a solo player you can run into anything at any moment and need a build that is built to handle multiple different types of enemies at any given time or at the same time.

You did assume, you said that "I doubt you have much solo experience", and in order to read what I wrote and doubt something I did not speak about, you have to assume. Unless you spend a lot of time following me around, idk. If swapping skills to better your chances in a given situation is a bad idea to, that is your prerogative. I can and do only play healer and solo, just use few different skills when I do. I think you may be assuming that the way you solo is the only way to do it.

And back to the topic of this thread, just because your build and play style has trouble with a tanky magplar, does not justify a change to the game. There are plenty of ways for any toon to do it, just because you aren't doing it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Ashamray

Bol spam is a tool that allows mplars to live. Earlier we have a decent aedric shield and Blinding flashes as defensive tools. Now we don't, so it's naturally that we use block-cancel bol spam in every hot situation.

Darnathian

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

MoeCoastie wrote: »

i like the build, I like the purpose of the build, I play my Templar very similar so I guess Im bias....or old school. whatever you wanna call it.

As far as people claiming they cant burst down someone being healed by a templar like this:

this is a team game, ASSIST!

So, in other words: Go screw yourself solo players.

Wait, ZOS is screwing solo players? I see plenty of those running around having success. "I didn't win that fight by mashing button x because enemy player z was mashing button y" is not a valid argument.

Sure, if that was my argument that wouldn't be valid, but it's not. It doesn't matter what combo you hit if a player can negate all incoming damage with one burst heal on top of heavy armor negating damage and adding to healing received.

I was referring to the commenter, not ZOS, but how many of those successful solo players are stamina players running Cancer (i.e., Veli/Viper) setups? Even still, I have a hard time finding solo players to fight against these days. A lot of Templars here who only run in groups commenting on balance or how solo players should play. I've grouped with you back in Decibel, so I know you're a very good player Mano, but there are a ton of bad Templars these days rewarded by poor game mechanics. Previously the trade off for healing was wearing LA and being squishy; now you can be tanky and out heal almost all incoming damage with just one BoL.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I'm just saying, for this so called "cheese build" all you need is 2 people to foucs him down, that's not true for reactive/maluplars. I personally didn't love watching the video, but I know that its a play style that is immensely rewarding and that requires self sacrifice to even attempt, on top of that you need very good movement, positioning, and situational awareness to play healer well in pvp.

Every healer isn't a cheese build guys, sometimes you just run what helps your group the most.

I'm not saying all healers are cheese builds, but it's kind of silly to tell solo players "all you need is two people." That goes against the definition of "solo."

I have no problem with players grouping or healing in PvP, like people are twisting my complaints into, my problem is mostly with the absurd levels of self healing from one BoL compared to outgoing sustain damage without gimmick Cancer sets.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I'm just saying, for this so called "cheese build" all you need is 2 people to foucs him down, that's not true for reactive/maluplars. I personally didn't love watching the video, but I know that its a play style that is immensely rewarding and that requires self sacrifice to even attempt, on top of that you need very good movement, positioning, and situational awareness to play healer well in pvp.

Every healer isn't a cheese build guys, sometimes you just run what helps your group the most.

You don't seem to understand, grouping is a cheese tactic. Anything that requires teamwork to beat is unfair. if I have to change my build and give up dmg for defile debuffs to kill someone, then they're cancer.

Please, show me how to get major defile on a magicka sorc. Sure, I could hop on my NB or Stam DK and follow the meta, but I'm not commenting on how to attack the troll plars as those classes, I'm talking about as a mag Sorc.

Meetre wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Been playing since beta, so I don't need the notes. I don't know many, if any, 1vX players who change their skills up every five minutes, not to mention the impracticality of that mindset.

At any moment you could be fighting any one of the eight classes, or a combination of them, so you need to have well-rounded builds that are more affective against all types of enemies. You're a healer only, so as a healer you have one role, to heal the DD, so I doubt you have much if any experience in 1v1/1vX, so probably not the best idea to give advice to players who've been maining a class since beta.

So, the biggest counter to Magplars is major defile, which I don't have access to as a Mag Sorc, so there are no skills I can swap out every five minutes that will change that, and both of my gold weapons have disease enchants, yet still these cheeseplars have no problem burst healing through my damage. The amount of bad players playing Templar right now is through the roof.

If you've been playing since beta, you should have learned to adapt by now. Swap a skill in for the situation you are in to give you the best advantage for what you are going to do. And your assumption about my experience in 1vx has done what assumptions do....

If you think major defile is the best way to handle a magplar, you should re-think that, because there are more effective ways. And to say a person is a "cheeseplar" and a bad player because you can't kill them seems childish. I can walk out of a zerg of 20+ who don't know what they are doing fighting a templar and still there are players out there who can wreck me by themselves in a 10 seconds if they know what they are doing.

I didnt assume, genius, you said yourself you "only play healer." Can't "only play healer" and also solo.

If you think constantly swapping out your skills because of what "might" be around the corner is a valid suggestion, it's not, and really proves you don't have much solo experience. I have no problem working things into my build to counter problems, but as a solo player you can run into anything at any moment and need a build that is built to handle multiple different types of enemies at any given time or at the same time.

Hey genius. Just walk away. Your failure is that u think u should be able to kill everything. The size of that head tho

ToRelax

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

I can tell you right now that outside of getting one shot off my horse, I pretty much never lost a 1v1 on my sorc from launch till the IC block nerf. What kinda cheese cancer does that make me?

Inexperienced at 1v1.

RadioheadSh0t

Darnathian wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

MoeCoastie wrote: »

i like the build, I like the purpose of the build, I play my Templar very similar so I guess Im bias....or old school. whatever you wanna call it.

As far as people claiming they cant burst down someone being healed by a templar like this:

this is a team game, ASSIST!

So, in other words: Go screw yourself solo players.

Wait, ZOS is screwing solo players? I see plenty of those running around having success. "I didn't win that fight by mashing button x because enemy player z was mashing button y" is not a valid argument.

Sure, if that was my argument that wouldn't be valid, but it's not. It doesn't matter what combo you hit if a player can negate all incoming damage with one burst heal on top of heavy armor negating damage and adding to healing received.

I was referring to the commenter, not ZOS, but how many of those successful solo players are stamina players running Cancer (i.e., Veli/Viper) setups? Even still, I have a hard time finding solo players to fight against these days. A lot of Templars here who only run in groups commenting on balance or how solo players should play. I've grouped with you back in Decibel, so I know you're a very good player Mano, but there are a ton of bad Templars these days rewarded by poor game mechanics. Previously the trade off for healing was wearing LA and being squishy; now you can be tanky and out heal almost all incoming damage with just one BoL.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I'm just saying, for this so called "cheese build" all you need is 2 people to foucs him down, that's not true for reactive/maluplars. I personally didn't love watching the video, but I know that its a play style that is immensely rewarding and that requires self sacrifice to even attempt, on top of that you need very good movement, positioning, and situational awareness to play healer well in pvp.

Every healer isn't a cheese build guys, sometimes you just run what helps your group the most.

I'm not saying all healers are cheese builds, but it's kind of silly to tell solo players "all you need is two people." That goes against the definition of "solo."

I have no problem with players grouping or healing in PvP, like people are twisting my complaints into, my problem is mostly with the absurd levels of self healing from one BoL compared to outgoing sustain damage without gimmick Cancer sets.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I'm just saying, for this so called "cheese build" all you need is 2 people to foucs him down, that's not true for reactive/maluplars. I personally didn't love watching the video, but I know that its a play style that is immensely rewarding and that requires self sacrifice to even attempt, on top of that you need very good movement, positioning, and situational awareness to play healer well in pvp.

Every healer isn't a cheese build guys, sometimes you just run what helps your group the most.

You don't seem to understand, grouping is a cheese tactic. Anything that requires teamwork to beat is unfair. if I have to change my build and give up dmg for defile debuffs to kill someone, then they're cancer.

Please, show me how to get major defile on a magicka sorc. Sure, I could hop on my NB or Stam DK and follow the meta, but I'm not commenting on how to attack the troll plars as those classes, I'm talking about as a mag Sorc.

Meetre wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Been playing since beta, so I don't need the notes. I don't know many, if any, 1vX players who change their skills up every five minutes, not to mention the impracticality of that mindset.

At any moment you could be fighting any one of the eight classes, or a combination of them, so you need to have well-rounded builds that are more affective against all types of enemies. You're a healer only, so as a healer you have one role, to heal the DD, so I doubt you have much if any experience in 1v1/1vX, so probably not the best idea to give advice to players who've been maining a class since beta.

So, the biggest counter to Magplars is major defile, which I don't have access to as a Mag Sorc, so there are no skills I can swap out every five minutes that will change that, and both of my gold weapons have disease enchants, yet still these cheeseplars have no problem burst healing through my damage. The amount of bad players playing Templar right now is through the roof.

If you've been playing since beta, you should have learned to adapt by now. Swap a skill in for the situation you are in to give you the best advantage for what you are going to do. And your assumption about my experience in 1vx has done what assumptions do....

If you think major defile is the best way to handle a magplar, you should re-think that, because there are more effective ways. And to say a person is a "cheeseplar" and a bad player because you can't kill them seems childish. I can walk out of a zerg of 20+ who don't know what they are doing fighting a templar and still there are players out there who can wreck me by themselves in a 10 seconds if they know what they are doing.

I didnt assume, genius, you said yourself you "only play healer." Can't "only play healer" and also solo.

If you think constantly swapping out your skills because of what "might" be around the corner is a valid suggestion, it's not, and really proves you don't have much solo experience. I have no problem working things into my build to counter problems, but as a solo player you can run into anything at any moment and need a build that is built to handle multiple different types of enemies at any given time or at the same time.

Hey genius. Just walk away. Your failure is that u think u should be able to kill everything. The size of that head tho

Any class being able to kill anything when played right is called BALANCE. I have no problem killing most Templars, and there have been nearly Unkillable Templars for quite a while (I remember people like Braidas being almost unkillable a long time ago), but the problem is they nerfed a bunch of other defensive mechanics for Templars and made them BoLbots.

Templars are overperforming so much that if you post videos of them overperforming, the moderators remove them.

HoloYoitsu

ToRelax wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

I can tell you right now that outside of getting one shot off my horse, I pretty much never lost a 1v1 on my sorc from launch till the IC block nerf. What kinda cheese cancer does that make me?

Inexperienced at 1v1.

ataggs

Someone doesn't know who you are....

ToRelax wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

I can tell you right now that outside of getting one shot off my horse, I pretty much never lost a 1v1 on my sorc from launch till the IC block nerf. What kinda cheese cancer does that make me?

Inexperienced at 1v1.

Mojomonkeyman

In my experience, all the great, competitive and skillfully balanced PvP games I know of, that managed to fascinate its playerbase for long periods of time, have one thing in common:

The innate philosophy that heal/support setups (unit or class, im not only referencing mmos) can NOT outheal the burst of burst setups by themselves (or only for a very limited amount of time). They will perform marginally worse output-wise than its damage counterparts, if we suppose both roles play perfect. Only worse by a slight margin tho.

You might ask: 'why is that important for skillful PvP?'

Because if a support class is able to cancel out an offensive class one by one, stalemates will happen far too easy (since support classes usually cant kill but only survive). The incentive to just decide being unkillable and stalemate would be huge and the situation itself (stalemate) too easy to accomlish. Stalemates ar the very last thing you want for competitive PvP. Tourneys, leagues and all the good stuff (which is only possible in well balanced PvP games) rely on dynamic matches driven by pressure. Support classes have to be supported by the cc and dmg setups efficiently to not get overwhelmed by pressure. Through that both opposing factions/teams of the match can gain momentum/advantage by optimizing their teamwork and therefore efficeny. Healing is a support role by nature, not a standalone.

That philosophy is, in my opinion, indispensable for skillful PvP and its non-implementation in ESO is causing a lot of the imbalances (so perceived from all parties involved) we are facing on a daily basis.

Healing and regeneration performs far too well to allow for sustained damage builds. They are not viable in ESO for the sole reason of how well defensive abilities are overperforming. Theres only two offensive ways to play atm if you want to kill: max heal reduc fasalla or dmg being able to burst 100 to 0. There`s no middleground because it wouldn`t achieve anything.

You have to identify healing as the core problem and go from there to adjust the remaining parameters accordingly later on in order to make ESO a more skillful and fun game. This is not AGAINST healers, this is pvp basics.

Just wanted to leave my 2c, stop splitting everything into "us" (the healers") and "them" ("the dps", "the tank") or otherwise around and try to look at the bigger picture and what is necessary to create compelling PvP dynamics.

Love

Cathexis

Edenprime wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You don't need malubeth/reactive to run a cheese build.

I guess there are different stages/forms of cancer. Reactive+malubeth would be like terminal cancer and mine would be like breast cancer?

It amazes me that people treat tanky builds as cancer but the macro slice is straight up legit.

MoeCoastie

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

MoeCoastie wrote: »

i like the build, I like the purpose of the build, I play my Templar very similar so I guess Im bias....or old school. whatever you wanna call it.

As far as people claiming they cant burst down someone being healed by a templar like this:

this is a team game, ASSIST!

So, in other words: Go screw yourself solo players.

There lies your problem. Your approach to this game is all wrong. Had you been playing Streetfighter, you'd be justified in your logic. Unfortunately, youre playing a multiplayer game.

Which brings me to a gripe of mine. In every MMO ive played Ive dabbled in solo play. Ive NEVER seen a solo-community complain and *** as much as Ive seen in this game. The culture is sickening. Players willfully choose to play solo which essentially is hard-mode and they complain like they were forced to do it! They choose hard-mode in an MMO and campaign to make solo play easier! That is the type of PvP I'd rather not see. If I enjoyed that type of PvP i'd visit my local arcade and challange some 4 year old to a game of streetfighter while I spout profanities in e-speak. get rekt bruh! LOL....hilarious!

RadioheadSh0t

MoeCoastie wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

MoeCoastie wrote: »

i like the build, I like the purpose of the build, I play my Templar very similar so I guess Im bias....or old school. whatever you wanna call it.

As far as people claiming they cant burst down someone being healed by a templar like this:

this is a team game, ASSIST!

So, in other words: Go screw yourself solo players.

There lies your problem. Your approach to this game is all wrong. Had you been playing Streetfighter, you'd be justified in your logic. Unfortunately, youre playing a multiplayer game.

Which brings me to a gripe of mine. In every MMO ive played Ive dabbled in solo play. Ive NEVER seen a solo-community complain and *** as much as Ive seen in this game. The culture is sickening. Players willfully choose to play solo which essentially is hard-mode and they complain like they were forced to do it! They choose hard-mode in an MMO and campaign to make solo play easier! That is the type of PvP I'd rather not see. If I enjoyed that type of PvP i'd visit my local arcade and challange some 4 year old to a game of streetfighter while I spout profanities in e-speak. get rekt bruh! LOL....hilarious!

That's not what I was saying at all, I was making fun of someone suggesting that solo players get someone else to target them as a response to my criticisms. I know what I signed up for when I play solo, what I was saying was that is a terrible solution.

The point here is about BALANCE, which seems to be a hard concept for some people to grasp.

I've never seen any class defended by White Knights as much as Templar.

Chuga_Rei

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

That's not what I was saying at all, I was making fun of someone suggesting that solo players get someone else to target them as a response to my criticisms. I know what I signed up for when I play solo, what I was saying was that is a terrible solution.

The point here is about BALANCE, which seems to be a hard concept for some people to grasp.

I've never seen any class defended by White Knights as much as Templar.

you clearly werent around for skirt and stick dk's I guess.


Also funny how someone posts alts and of course....no experience with the class they are complaining about. My stam NB is a joke to play compared to either of my templars. Viper+vale=lol. BOL spam only goes so far, especially after the multiple nerfs.

timidobserver

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

MoeCoastie wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

MoeCoastie wrote: »

i like the build, I like the purpose of the build, I play my Templar very similar so I guess Im bias....or old school. whatever you wanna call it.

As far as people claiming they cant burst down someone being healed by a templar like this:

this is a team game, ASSIST!

So, in other words: Go screw yourself solo players.

There lies your problem. Your approach to this game is all wrong. Had you been playing Streetfighter, you'd be justified in your logic. Unfortunately, youre playing a multiplayer game.

Which brings me to a gripe of mine. In every MMO ive played Ive dabbled in solo play. Ive NEVER seen a solo-community complain and *** as much as Ive seen in this game. The culture is sickening. Players willfully choose to play solo which essentially is hard-mode and they complain like they were forced to do it! They choose hard-mode in an MMO and campaign to make solo play easier! That is the type of PvP I'd rather not see. If I enjoyed that type of PvP i'd visit my local arcade and challange some 4 year old to a game of streetfighter while I spout profanities in e-speak. get rekt bruh! LOL....hilarious!

That's not what I was saying at all, I was making fun of someone suggesting that solo players get someone else to target them as a response to my criticisms. I know what I signed up for when I play solo, what I was saying was that is a terrible solution.

The point here is about BALANCE, which seems to be a hard concept for some people to grasp.

I've never seen any class defended by White Knights as much as Templar.

If you don't defend your class against the constant nerf threads you end up getting DK'd.

Chuga_Rei

Or they start doing things like taking away a defensive ability and replacing it with a ridiculous execute that still needs tweaking a year later lol

Valencer

The smart heals in this game are relatively expensive compared to the more efficient ground-based AoE heals, but it just isnt much of a difference anymore because of the limitless sustain we have nowadays.

The smart heal system was obviously designed with the game in mind as it was at launch, with softcaps and no CP system. Actually had to make some resource management decisions back then (BoL spam was costly).
Then again, the same can be said for a lot of abilities in this game... not just smart heals.

Chuga_Rei

Valencer wrote: »

The smart heals in this game are relatively expensive compared to the more efficient ground-based AoE heals, but it just isnt much of a difference anymore because of the limitless sustain we have nowadays.

The smart heal system was obviously designed with the game in mind as it was at launch, with softcaps and no CP system. Actually had to make some resource management decisions back then (BoL spam was costly).
Then again, the same can be said for a lot of abilities in this game... not just smart heals.

I could endlessly heal with soft caps much easier than i can with max CP. throw in another templar and equilibrium and it was absolute cake.

This is of course just my opinion, and i really prefer to play in AZ when possible. But I dont ever remember being resource starved from launch-CP release.

edit: rewatched an old video, amazing how much stronger equilibrium used to be. funny how we remember things/forget others. You are right BOL did take giant chunks out of my magicka pool but it was so easy to return it seemed like no issue.

HoloYoitsu

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

That's not what I was saying at all, I was making fun of someone suggesting that solo players get someone else to target them as a response to my criticisms. I know what I signed up for when I play solo, what I was saying was that is a terrible solution.

The point here is about BALANCE, which seems to be a hard concept for some people to grasp.

I've never seen any class defended by White Knights as much as Templar.

you clearly werent around for skirt and stick dk's I guess.


Also funny how someone posts alts and of course....no experience with the class they are complaining about. My stam NB is a joke to play compared to either of my templars. Viper+vale=lol. BOL spam only goes so far, especially after the multiple nerfs.

Hey, remember the Bash Knights?

timidobserver wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

MoeCoastie wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

MoeCoastie wrote: »

i like the build, I like the purpose of the build, I play my Templar very similar so I guess Im bias....or old school. whatever you wanna call it.

As far as people claiming they cant burst down someone being healed by a templar like this:

this is a team game, ASSIST!

So, in other words: Go screw yourself solo players.

There lies your problem. Your approach to this game is all wrong. Had you been playing Streetfighter, you'd be justified in your logic. Unfortunately, youre playing a multiplayer game.

Which brings me to a gripe of mine. In every MMO ive played Ive dabbled in solo play. Ive NEVER seen a solo-community complain and *** as much as Ive seen in this game. The culture is sickening. Players willfully choose to play solo which essentially is hard-mode and they complain like they were forced to do it! They choose hard-mode in an MMO and campaign to make solo play easier! That is the type of PvP I'd rather not see. If I enjoyed that type of PvP i'd visit my local arcade and challange some 4 year old to a game of streetfighter while I spout profanities in e-speak. get rekt bruh! LOL....hilarious!

That's not what I was saying at all, I was making fun of someone suggesting that solo players get someone else to target them as a response to my criticisms. I know what I signed up for when I play solo, what I was saying was that is a terrible solution.

The point here is about BALANCE, which seems to be a hard concept for some people to grasp.

I've never seen any class defended by White Knights as much as Templar.

If you don't defend your class against the constant nerf threads you end up getting DK'd.