The Dodge Roll Eternal Hunt Well fitted folks might be going extinct very soon...
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Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Drummerx04 wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
Cloak was the first step on a road that Wrobel seems to enjoy following. Next up is locking DK's out of using Wings and Sorcs using Shields.Princess_Asgari wrote: »I dont mind most of the buffs to the ult, but i do mind the no purge or no cloaking it. I dont understand this new direction of not allowing class defining skills to do what they are intended to do.
Wings already lost the ability to reflect meteors a while ago.
That was in my opinion a good change. You should not be able to just take an ultimate and cast one spammable defense skill to send the ULTIMATE back at the caster.
And yet, there was a way to make meteor hit your target 100% even if they reflected it. Unfortunately the majority of the player base doesn't care for testing, learning, trying things. They don't care for knowing how the game works and the mechanic that allows for you to smartly use Meteor. You get enough of these people on an online forum complaining about how they don't know what they are doing and you end up with the current version of Meteor.
If you think back on it, having the meteor bounce back a few times made the game play feel one sided, like there was an illusion of skill play. You timed the reflects and it was essentially a DK's and S+B build dominant play only.
Having it blockable only means all classes have access to its counter (you don't really need S+B to block), you still have to Cc before you use it if you want it to function at full dmg, and it saves on all the lag with the game calculations (remember the stutter that happened when you reflected it twice?)
Overall it's a more balanced change with more a universal counter.
Blocking was still an option back then, so I don't see the difference if we're going to claim reflecting it was trivial. Fact of the matter is there was ways to prevent it being reflected at you as well should you be aware enough to throw a light attack/entropy or such at the enemy to have that reflected instead of the meteor (DK's make this complicated. and rightfully so as it's a class defining feature). I don't recall lag caused by meteor though. Every fight I can remember either went smoothly with many meteors getting pinged around (#thanksve #thankshaxus), or the lag was already there prior. The only thing I think it could have possibly helped with was the fall damage bug.
Because Rite of Passage roots you in place and Healing Ritual does not. ZOS did not want to allow Templars to move while channeling Rite of Passage, and so they settled for CC immunity. Being able to move allows you to not be next to someone who can bash you.
Casting healing ritual snares you 70%. Keep in mind CC immunity is a very powerful effect.
Option A: ZOS grants CC immunity to rite because it is meant to be used in the middle of heavy melee, and ZOS does not want an ultimate effect to be so easily nullified.
Option B: ZOS grants CC immunity to rite because you can not move at 30% speed during the channel. If you could, rite would not get that immunity.
If you think that option B is more likely, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.Now I'll respond to the bolded part:
Why does anyone use an ultimate that can be countered? Meteor has been used since the game came out when it could be reflected. Standard/nova/veil have been used since the game came out and they can be negated or just moved out of. You can literally auto run out of the radius of dragon leap before it hits you. Can you not dodge incap? Can you not reflect overload? Why does anyone use these absolutely atrocious abilities?
Wait there's more! Remember when people used to use Soul Assault? I do. I don't remember it granting the user CC immunity. I remember it could be purged. It could be cloaked (maybe?
). People used it because it did insane single target damage, and they knew when to use it. The people using it to good effect weren't just slamming their palm on the keyboard and then wondering why soul assault didn't kill someone. Unfortunately that seems like the direction ZOS wants to go with PvP judging by changes like this. Unfortunately for you you're actually defending brain dead pvp.
All those ultimates are still usable, still have their purpose, in specific scenarios. You never waste your ult unless you use it wrong. Standard needs to be used in enclosed spaces, incap on a feared target, etc.
With SA, the "wrong use" would be using it in melee range where it will be easily bashed. So use it at range, right? Well, there's the thing: People have been asking ZOS for a classless single-target magicka ultimate. And the response was(it was in the video from gamescom i think): "There already is one - soul assault. ".
Now consider this: If SA is supposed to be THE go-to single target magicka ultimate, like ZOS intends, it needs to be usable in melee as well. And that means it needs to be uninterruptable. I bet that's the reason why it got the immunity in the firstplace. Ranged casters can get by with the current SA mechanics - melees, not so much.
I mean you can believe what you want to believe, but being able to move is infinitely better than not. IDK, maybe you'll get a different response when you ask Wrobel directly about the skill.
I'd like to bring some attention to a specific part of your post however. Bolding it isn't enough. I had to go to great measures to adequately prove how *** this whole argument is.
Here it is:
It... it's almost like that applies to EVERY SKILL IN THE GAME INCLUDING EVERY ULTIMATE. Hopefully now that I've converted one person I can have better luck banging it into the much thicker skulls of everyone else.
So, when I use a detect pot, making the NB fully visible through his cloak spam, my Soul Assault gets instantly eaten and negated by cloak spam(target is -fully- visible due to detect pot) It's my fault for using my ultimate wrong?
lol
Uh, yes.
Uh, no.
Be intelligent. If you know it's not going to work then don't *** use it when they're spamming cloak. This is Brain Dead PvP 101 qaevir keep up please.
Honestly the mechanic sounds like it doesn't work the way it should, not Soul Assault. If that's actually happening it's a problem for other skills not just that one, so it makes no sense to change just one skill. Why don't detect pots just have a stealth lockout aura around you like flare? Wow so hard m8.
I'm being very intelligent.
When you waste "other ultimates" they still do their effect. When you waste soul assault so easily on a NB even though detect pots make them vulnerable to every other skill in the game, there is a problem with soul assault, an ultimate no less.
When you dawnbreaker a templar, they cannot just purify and waste the actual hit(initial impact.) When you incap strike a templar, they cannot purify the initial hit. When you drop a standard on a templar, they cannot sit in it and purify it. When you keep a templar in your bats range, they cannot purify it. The only ultimate you can waste(mechanically) on a templar, is soul assault.
What can a templar do now? What they do against every other ultimate. They can buff up increasing their resistances with their super low cost and free-to-cast rune focus which also buffs their healing, and just heal through. If they are debuffed, they can block-cast purify and return to healing. Maybe they can even go into mistform and just negate everything as they do with everything else including dawnbreakers which hit even harder! The only difference is that now, the soul assault is actually -used- and the victim has to take actual steps the same way they would for being hit by any other ultimate in the game.Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »The DPS is not the issue here. The terrible mechanics are. It is beyond dumb that using a damage skill makes you immune to CC and breaks the normal rules of the game.
It's an ultimate. Ultimates break the normal rules of the game. For example, take rite of passage. That too is a channel that is uninterruptable and makes the caster immune to CC for the duration.
You picked the exception and are trying to claim it's the rule
Most ultimates do not break the normal rules of the game. Banner, DK Leap, Magma Shell, Nova, Radial Sweep, Negate, Storm Atronach, Overload, Soul Harvest, Soul Tether, Veil of Blades, and Dawnbreaker all conform to the normal rules of the game.
Neither of those is a channel. I did not pick an exception, i picked another ultimate that is also a channel. When debating whether a channeled ultimate giving CC immunity is normal or not, it makes sense to compare it to another ultimate that is also channeled, not to those which aren't.
And as you pointed out, there also is another ultimate that breaks "normal rules". SA will be the 3rd. And the 1h/s ultimate will be another one. Blocking mitigation without holding block? Reflect that isn't limited to 4 projectiles? Devs do not care what you or me consider "normal" when designing the game, and neither should they.
Devs should care about compelling PvP. Pressing "I win" buttons without having to think about tactics, consequence, or counter-play is something I'd rather not see.
How is an uninterruptable channel more of an i-win button than an instant-cast ability?
Or in other words, wouldn't you agree that if you could interrupt SA ultimate, and only SA ultimate, it would be significantly less of an i-win button than pretty much every other ultimate there is?
Instant cast abilities I can evade/mitigate/counter by doing something other than block.
And what can you do against a meteor that wouldn't work against soul assault?
See the telegraph, go get a drink, come back and do one of the following, switch weapons, mist form, change my potions, move behind a tree, immediately counter attack the instant it lands, et al.
Is the telegraph of soul assault is so much less obvious and so much shorter than the one of meteor that you absolutely cannot react to it by mist forming, and moving behind a tree?
Or just simply block and counter attack right away, while the poor sod can't block whatever you decide to throw at him.
Yes.
When someone presses their Meteor ultimate button, the game tells you in about 3 seconds you are going to get hit and can plan ahead accordingly.
When someone presses their soul assault ultimate button, you immediately start taking damage and have to react. If you are on a different bar, you would have to swap and then activate the skill, which takes time and leaves you exposed to take the full damage. Moving behind a tree? You are 70% snared when hit with soul assault and that happens immediately. No, the poor sod can't block, but neither can they be stunned, let alone interrupted. And since you are blocking, super-snared, and cant even stun the soul assaulter, the "whatever" you throw at them in their counter attack is not going to be very threatening, let alone force them to decide whether or not to continue the channel, which might actually be interesting gameplay but ZoS wants none of that.
I would much rather get targeted by the meteor ultimate that is more than twice as expensive and it's not close. Which is a sad state of affairs because meteor is another ultimate with lazy mechanics.
I think you are just arguing this just for arguments sake. I despise the stam meta with a burning hatred and I have many times told ZoS how dumb it is in numerous ways, and even offered lengthy advice on how to get some semblance of balance back. The point of the matter is, yes, ZoS had the right intent on providing magicka with a cheap burst DPS alt available to everyone, but totally missed the boat on how to go about doing that with a lazy, noob-friendly design that is overly restrictive as far as counterplay. I dont want magicka to be competitive because I have a cheese Xv1 troll ultimate.
Strange. Almost every stam build I've come across, move at acceptable speed even with the 70% snare from my soul assault. They are taking 75k tooltip damage ticks that -cannot- be mitigated at all and get to the closest tree moving at a speed that is even with the snare, more then usual because Stam is the most mobile thing in the game.
Have you actually dueled people on PTS with this change? I can feel the damage difference now, I can't just melt people open field with it even though my tool-tip on it increased to 85k. Now they can block it. Magic builds can shield through it, vamps can mistform. It has a plethora of counters still. But at least now, when I use my damn ultimate, it is actually used.Edited by Lord_Hev on September 17, 2016 7:12PM3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »No, the poor sod can't block, but neither can they be stunned, let alone interrupted. And since you are blocking, super-snared, and cant even stun the soul assaulter, the "whatever" you throw at them in their counter attack is not going to be very threatening
Snare does not matter, because he is snared as well. If you are not in melee range, use a gap closer. If you are already in melee range, just hold block and DPS him. You cannot stun him, but you do not need to because he basically stunned himself. He is completely helpless - he cannot block, heal himself, shield himself or roll dodge. The only way you wouldn't be threatening to him in this situation is if you are not threatening at all.
Edited by Sharee on September 17, 2016 7:33PM1 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ha it just keeps getting better, My Sorc gonna LOVE this
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/292335/pts-patch-notes-v2-6-2/p1
Sorcerer
Daedric Summoning
Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked.
Yup....between Soul Assault and now this....yup...I think this sums it up how dodge rollers gonna feel next update...
Edited by RinaldoGandolphi on September 20, 2016 4:05PMRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Ha it just keeps getting better, My Sorc gonna LOVE this
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/292335/pts-patch-notes-v2-6-2/p1
Sorcerer
Daedric Summoning
Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked.
Yup....between Soul Assault and now this....yup...I think this sums it up how dodge rollers gonna feel next update...
I can't even right now.Edited by Manoekin on September 20, 2016 5:02PM1 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Ha it just keeps getting better, My Sorc gonna LOVE this
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/292335/pts-patch-notes-v2-6-2/p1
Sorcerer
Daedric Summoning
Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked.
Yup....between Soul Assault and now this....yup...I think this sums it up how dodge rollers gonna feel next update...
I can't even right now.
Oh it gets better...multiple Sorcs can stack Multiple Velicious Curses on you...Say 3 Sorcs see ya, all 3 of them cast Curse on you...in 3.5 Secs those 3 Unblockable Curses will explode at the same time for a HUGE amount of burst...Not even Rally + Major Mending + Vigor will save you from that...dead...on a full damage spec that easily 24k-27 worth of burst damage all at one time(7-8k per Curse)...This is not to mention the person Wrobel beaming you, and the Templar Jesus beaming you for good measure....
hence the Negan bat coming down on the skull...seems to fit the situation....
its really getting silly at this point....lol....this is every bit as silly as the roll, roll, roll, roll, shuffle, just in the opposite direction. Of course i will giggle at the roll roll shuffle folks taking their medicine on this one, for a few months its probably going to hurt...real bad...Edited by RinaldoGandolphi on September 20, 2016 5:12PMRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Ha it just keeps getting better, My Sorc gonna LOVE this
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/292335/pts-patch-notes-v2-6-2/p1
Sorcerer
Daedric Summoning
Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked.
Yup....between Soul Assault and now this....yup...I think this sums it up how dodge rollers gonna feel next update...
I can't even right now.
Oh it gets better...multiple Sorcs can stack Multiple Velicious Curses on you...Say 3 Sorcs see ya, all 3 of them cast Curse on you...in 3.5 Secs those 3 Unblockable Curses will explode at the same time for a HUGE amount of burst...Not even Rally + Major Mending + Vigor will save you from that...dead...on a full damage spec that easily 24k-27 worth of burst damage all at one time(7-8k per Curse)...This is not to mention the person Wrobel beaming you, and the Templar Jesus beaming you for good measure....
hence the Negan bat coming down on the skull...seems to fit the situation....
its really getting silly at this point....lol....this is every bit as silly as the roll, roll, roll, roll, shuffle, just in the opposite direction. Of course i will giggle at the roll roll shuffle folks taking their medicine on this one, for a few months its probably going to hurt...real bad...
They really want everyone to slot purge or reroll Templar.0 -
BruhItsOver9000✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Ha it just keeps getting better, My Sorc gonna LOVE this
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/292335/pts-patch-notes-v2-6-2/p1
Sorcerer
Daedric Summoning
Daedric Curse: The damage done to the primary target can no longer be blocked for this ability and its morphs. The area of effect damage to all secondary targets can still be blocked.
Yup....between Soul Assault and now this....yup...I think this sums it up how dodge rollers gonna feel next update...
I can't even right now.
Oh it gets better...multiple Sorcs can stack Multiple Velicious Curses on you...Say 3 Sorcs see ya, all 3 of them cast Curse on you...in 3.5 Secs those 3 Unblockable Curses will explode at the same time for a HUGE amount of burst...Not even Rally + Major Mending + Vigor will save you from that...dead...on a full damage spec that easily 24k-27 worth of burst damage all at one time(7-8k per Curse)...This is not to mention the person Wrobel beaming you, and the Templar Jesus beaming you for good measure....
hence the Negan bat coming down on the skull...seems to fit the situation....
its really getting silly at this point....lol....this is every bit as silly as the roll, roll, roll, roll, shuffle, just in the opposite direction. Of course i will giggle at the roll roll shuffle folks taking their medicine on this one, for a few months its probably going to hurt...real bad...
Wrobel is forcing players to wear heavy armor, #BlameWrobel.
WOOD ELF MASTER RACE.0 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Balance is so fisted at this point, it's just entertaining to watch unfold.The Age of Wrobel.0 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/291083/pts-patch-notes-v2-6-1#latest
Soul Magic
Shatter Soul (Soul Strike morph): Increased the explosion damage by 50%.
Soul Strike:- This ability can no longer can be purged or interrupted, but can now be blocked.
- You will now be immune to CC while channeling this ability.
- Increased the damage from this ability by 15%.
- This ability now prevents your target from entering stealth and invisibility for 2 seconds
Just imagine...an avoidable ultimate(if you can't LOS) at around 70 cost that:
1. Double Dips from both Thaum and Elemental Expert
2. Will be increased in damage from sets like Soul Shine that will be dropping in CP 160 soon
3. Will pretty much ignore all your Spell Resist due to Spell Pen numbers
4. Will be used liberally because its so cheap to slow you pursuit so the Jesus Beam spammers can get you.
5. Can't use Cloak to get away from it because it lock you out from using it.
6. Can't Purge it.
You roll with your Eternal Hunt and will have 4 Soul Assaults on you at any given time, and perhaps a Radiant Destruction or 2 thrown in the mix for giggles. Behind every rock, every blade of grass...no longer will it just be an archer...but a Soul Assault spammer, and a Jesus Beam spammer to go along with the Soul Assault spammer....zerg surfing just got real very quickly...
Many large raid leaders right now are thinking of those who would gank their people on their siege weapons then roll away into the sunset while wasting time killing them while they run around a tree and roll....they are stroking their chin whiskers and thinking to themselves right now at this moment.........something like.......
Please note this post is for sarcasm and satire its means to make you LAUGH.....its the silly affair of things nowadays....
Alright, now we are getting ridiculous when it comes to this Ultimate, cant interrupt it or cloak it off (and it knocks people out of Cloak, like we needed another one of those), the person cannot be CC'ed (really???), cannot purge it and the only thing you can do is really just Block it.... this is utter BS, no counter-play at all here
WTF are you doing ZOS... Like really..fix it..
Just keep it up with the BS and crap changes, Camelot Unchained is coming soon (TM) and stuff like this makes me really think about it.. and oh yeah, Sorcs and magicka builds need a slight buff (and I am a Stam build player)..
Blocking would be considered Counter Play.
Soul Assault is *** right now, and its not *** because you can Interrupt it...Its *** because its damage is *** poor. its a 4.2 Second Channeled dot where you can't do anything else... The only reason the Bow Ult is going to get play is because Ballista lets you burst with it....
Take a picture of Soul Assault on PTS delving for 81k..In PVP that's actually 40.5k just from Battle Spirit..That is before you factor in Spell Resist and CP Points which means its going to end up ticing for around 8k per second for 4.2 second....
That's IF you don't use the one counter play option of just Blocking it...
Blocking is the only Counter to that Ultimate, its way too OP to have only one Counter.. ridiculous..
So you're saying you're going to die to 8k DPS?
Some of you need to log into PTS; and actually Duel With Soul Assault
The DPS is not the issue here. The terrible mechanics are. It is beyond dumb that using a damage skill makes you immune to CC and breaks the normal rules of the game.
Why can't they just make it a decent ability without cheese/noob mechanics that allows players to use their own skills and abilities to counterplay?
Probably because that would require a dev team with experience and imagination who desired PvP to be compelling rather than just spamming buttons.
One morph of the two hand ult gives cc immunity, while ignoring and stealing resistances, and it's burst damage that allows you to keep up dps after using it. My only problem with that ult is stealing reistances. It's an ultimate ability, so is soul assault. With soul assault you are stuck in the channel. That's the trade off0 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Guru Nanak loves the soul assault morphs .Many beams will be cast in his honor .
I was thinking more.. Scott Summers from X-Men;/Update%2001/12-cyclops.png)
I might need to rename my Magplar to Scott Summers, slot Soul Strike and scream 'OPTIC BLAST' IRL when I PVP. Then I can RP trying to be everyone's dad like from the cartoon.
Ah yes, this will be glorious!But really I am looking forward to the ult-- as this ult will be nice to slot on my Magplar. Since Templars native Ults don't really tickle my fancyEdited by Takes-No-Prisoner on September 20, 2016 5:50PM1 -
Dalglish✭✭✭Next up:
Templar -
Radiant Destruction and it's morphs can now be cast with Soul Strike simultaneously.Victrix EU - EP & AD -
Xbox EU - DalglishUK1 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
For the love of Kyne, buff sorc. PC NACP 2100+Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+3/vSS HMs/vKA HMs/vVH/vRG Oax HM/vDSR2 -
Horker✭✭✭✭Opening a clinic for everyone who got 50 types of cancer and tumors aswell from "balancing" soul strike.
Ill just modify my magicka NB, buff a 6k spell dmg empowered with magelight from cloak soul ulti and one shot emperor zergling
Edited by Horker on September 21, 2016 11:18AMROSES ARE RED, VIOLETS ARE BLUE, TRINIMAC IS DEAD, MALACATH IS TRUE0 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Oh it gets better...multiple Sorcs can stack Multiple Velicious Curses on you...Say 3 Sorcs see ya, all 3 of them cast Curse on you...in 3.5 Secs those 3 Unblockable Curses will explode at the same time for a HUGE amount of burst...Not even Rally + Major Mending + Vigor will save you from that...dead...on a full damage spec that easily 24k-27 worth of burst damage all at one time(7-8k per Curse)...This is not to mention the person Wrobel beaming you, and the Templar Jesus beaming you for good measure....
Weren't people complaining that magicka sorcerers were a weak class on 50+ treads at the same time? From my own experience I've seen 2 types of sorcerers:
1) The walking AP bag type who fails to recast their shields & wards, and properly use their DD abilities and it's very easy to burst down
2) The ones that are shielded at all time, hit you with velocious curse, crushing shock and mages wrath or a similar combo and they kill you before you even hit their health bar.
So the supposed "weakness" of sorcerers is mostly a L2P issue. With curse becoming unblockable they will become even more powerful. In fact velocious curse and soul assault might become a winning combo, especially after a Kena proc.
Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor
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41,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
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Characters:
Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
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Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |
Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
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PC-NA CP 1800+
30,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Savage Blade: Majestic Machette
Characters:
Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Oh it gets better...multiple Sorcs can stack Multiple Velicious Curses on you...Say 3 Sorcs see ya, all 3 of them cast Curse on you...in 3.5 Secs those 3 Unblockable Curses will explode at the same time for a HUGE amount of burst...Not even Rally + Major Mending + Vigor will save you from that...dead...on a full damage spec that easily 24k-27 worth of burst damage all at one time(7-8k per Curse)...This is not to mention the person Wrobel beaming you, and the Templar Jesus beaming you for good measure....
Weren't people complaining that magicka sorcerers were a weak class on 50+ treads at the same time? From my own experience I've seen 2 types of sorcerers:
1) The walking AP bag type who fails to recast their shields & wards, and properly use their DD abilities and it's very easy to burst down
2) The ones that are shielded at all time, hit you with velocious curse, crushing shock and mages wrath or a similar combo and they kill you before you even hit their health bar.
So the supposed "weakness" of sorcerers is mostly a L2P issue. With curse becoming unblockable they will become even more powerful. In fact velocious curse and soul assault might become a winning combo, especially after a Kena proc.
Which is why your forced to front bar Hardened Ward on your DPS bar, and have Healing and Harness on your back bar when your being pressured by more then 1 person so you can LOS, Mine Camp and do your Curse + Frags + Fury Combo with Crushing Shock weaves between reshielding.
Magic Sorc's main problem is a low stamina bar, they had longer shields to compensate for this vast weakness that had been masked for a very long time. Its still playable, but its not really competitive. In open world a stam build is better in every situation...better mobility, root and snare immunity, higher damage, better burst, and even better healing...a magic sorc is only a slightly better ranged damage dealer, thats about it.
Yes i am very happy with the buff to Velicious Curse, you won't hear me complaining about it Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak1 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭All magicka builds have by default a low stamina bar. The problem is that all CC breaks use stamina. The sorcerer is actually fortunate compared to other classes because he can convert magicka directly to stamina with dark deal and break free fast. I guess some magicka sorcerers actually take this morph for PvP, especially if their magicka regeneration is high enough. In any case the new Amber Plasm set alleviates the problem somewhat.Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor
PC-EU CP 3000+
41,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
Traders of the Covenant: God of Sales
Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
Valinor Overflow: Trader
The Traveling Merchant: Silver
Characters:
Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |
Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |
PC-NA CP 1800+
30,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Savage Blade: Majestic Machette
Characters:
Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |0 -
Bandit1215✭✭✭To be honest, it did need a buff.
But to go as far as giving the extra damage, anti-cloak, anti-purge, anti-interrupt, anti-CC is "a bit" much.
Seems like Zos forgot the meaning of "counterplay".
There is literally no counter to this skill, which is complete ***. And no, I don't count blocking because when has blocking with a staff or greatsword wored out well for anybody. That will drain your stam so much....CP 561- vSO HM - Completed
- vAA - Completed
- vHRC - Completed
0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Drummerx04 wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
Cloak was the first step on a road that Wrobel seems to enjoy following. Next up is locking DK's out of using Wings and Sorcs using Shields.Princess_Asgari wrote: »I dont mind most of the buffs to the ult, but i do mind the no purge or no cloaking it. I dont understand this new direction of not allowing class defining skills to do what they are intended to do.
Wings already lost the ability to reflect meteors a while ago.
That was in my opinion a good change. You should not be able to just take an ultimate and cast one spammable defense skill to send the ULTIMATE back at the caster.
And yet, there was a way to make meteor hit your target 100% even if they reflected it. Unfortunately the majority of the player base doesn't care for testing, learning, trying things. They don't care for knowing how the game works and the mechanic that allows for you to smartly use Meteor. You get enough of these people on an online forum complaining about how they don't know what they are doing and you end up with the current version of Meteor.
If you think back on it, having the meteor bounce back a few times made the game play feel one sided, like there was an illusion of skill play. You timed the reflects and it was essentially a DK's and S+B build dominant play only.
Having it blockable only means all classes have access to its counter (you don't really need S+B to block), you still have to Cc before you use it if you want it to function at full dmg, and it saves on all the lag with the game calculations (remember the stutter that happened when you reflected it twice?)
Overall it's a more balanced change with more a universal counter.
Blocking was still an option back then, so I don't see the difference if we're going to claim reflecting it was trivial. Fact of the matter is there was ways to prevent it being reflected at you as well should you be aware enough to throw a light attack/entropy or such at the enemy to have that reflected instead of the meteor (DK's make this complicated. and rightfully so as it's a class defining feature). I don't recall lag caused by meteor though. Every fight I can remember either went smoothly with many meteors getting pinged around (#thanksve #thankshaxus), or the lag was already there prior. The only thing I think it could have possibly helped with was the fall damage bug.
Because Rite of Passage roots you in place and Healing Ritual does not. ZOS did not want to allow Templars to move while channeling Rite of Passage, and so they settled for CC immunity. Being able to move allows you to not be next to someone who can bash you.
Casting healing ritual snares you 70%. Keep in mind CC immunity is a very powerful effect.
Option A: ZOS grants CC immunity to rite because it is meant to be used in the middle of heavy melee, and ZOS does not want an ultimate effect to be so easily nullified.
Option B: ZOS grants CC immunity to rite because you can not move at 30% speed during the channel. If you could, rite would not get that immunity.
If you think that option B is more likely, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.Now I'll respond to the bolded part:
Why does anyone use an ultimate that can be countered? Meteor has been used since the game came out when it could be reflected. Standard/nova/veil have been used since the game came out and they can be negated or just moved out of. You can literally auto run out of the radius of dragon leap before it hits you. Can you not dodge incap? Can you not reflect overload? Why does anyone use these absolutely atrocious abilities?
Wait there's more! Remember when people used to use Soul Assault? I do. I don't remember it granting the user CC immunity. I remember it could be purged. It could be cloaked (maybe? ). People used it because it did insane single target damage, and they knew when to use it. The people using it to good effect weren't just slamming their palm on the keyboard and then wondering why soul assault didn't kill someone. Unfortunately that seems like the direction ZOS wants to go with PvP judging by changes like this. Unfortunately for you you're actually defending brain dead pvp.
All those ultimates are still usable, still have their purpose, in specific scenarios. You never waste your ult unless you use it wrong. Standard needs to be used in enclosed spaces, incap on a feared target, etc.
With SA, the "wrong use" would be using it in melee range where it will be easily bashed. So use it at range, right? Well, there's the thing: People have been asking ZOS for a classless single-target magicka ultimate. And the response was(it was in the video from gamescom i think): "There already is one - soul assault. ".
Now consider this: If SA is supposed to be THE go-to single target magicka ultimate, like ZOS intends, it needs to be usable in melee as well. And that means it needs to be uninterruptable. I bet that's the reason why it got the immunity in the firstplace. Ranged casters can get by with the current SA mechanics - melees, not so much.
I mean you can believe what you want to believe, but being able to move is infinitely better than not. IDK, maybe you'll get a different response when you ask Wrobel directly about the skill.
I'd like to bring some attention to a specific part of your post however. Bolding it isn't enough. I had to go to great measures to adequately prove how *** this whole argument is.
Here it is:
It... it's almost like that applies to EVERY SKILL IN THE GAME INCLUDING EVERY ULTIMATE. Hopefully now that I've converted one person I can have better luck banging it into the much thicker skulls of everyone else.
So, when I use a detect pot, making the NB fully visible through his cloak spam, my Soul Assault gets instantly eaten and negated by cloak spam(target is -fully- visible due to detect pot) It's my fault for using my ultimate wrong?
lol
Uh, yes.
Uh, no.
Be intelligent. If you know it's not going to work then don't *** use it when they're spamming cloak. This is Brain Dead PvP 101 qaevir keep up please.
Honestly the mechanic sounds like it doesn't work the way it should, not Soul Assault. If that's actually happening it's a problem for other skills not just that one, so it makes no sense to change just one skill. Why don't detect pots just have a stealth lockout aura around you like flare? Wow so hard m8.
I'm being very intelligent.
When you waste "other ultimates" they still do their effect. When you waste soul assault so easily on a NB even though detect pots make them vulnerable to every other skill in the game, there is a problem with soul assault, an ultimate no less.
When you dawnbreaker a templar, they cannot just purify and waste the actual hit(initial impact.) When you incap strike a templar, they cannot purify the initial hit. When you drop a standard on a templar, they cannot sit in it and purify it. When you keep a templar in your bats range, they cannot purify it. The only ultimate you can waste(mechanically) on a templar, is soul assault.
What can a templar do now? What they do against every other ultimate. They can buff up increasing their resistances with their super low cost and free-to-cast rune focus which also buffs their healing, and just heal through. If they are debuffed, they can block-cast purify and return to healing. Maybe they can even go into mistform and just negate everything as they do with everything else including dawnbreakers which hit even harder! The only difference is that now, the soul assault is actually -used- and the victim has to take actual steps the same way they would for being hit by any other ultimate in the game.Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »The DPS is not the issue here. The terrible mechanics are. It is beyond dumb that using a damage skill makes you immune to CC and breaks the normal rules of the game.
It's an ultimate. Ultimates break the normal rules of the game. For example, take rite of passage. That too is a channel that is uninterruptable and makes the caster immune to CC for the duration.
You picked the exception and are trying to claim it's the rule
Most ultimates do not break the normal rules of the game. Banner, DK Leap, Magma Shell, Nova, Radial Sweep, Negate, Storm Atronach, Overload, Soul Harvest, Soul Tether, Veil of Blades, and Dawnbreaker all conform to the normal rules of the game.
Neither of those is a channel. I did not pick an exception, i picked another ultimate that is also a channel. When debating whether a channeled ultimate giving CC immunity is normal or not, it makes sense to compare it to another ultimate that is also channeled, not to those which aren't.
And as you pointed out, there also is another ultimate that breaks "normal rules". SA will be the 3rd. And the 1h/s ultimate will be another one. Blocking mitigation without holding block? Reflect that isn't limited to 4 projectiles? Devs do not care what you or me consider "normal" when designing the game, and neither should they.
Devs should care about compelling PvP. Pressing "I win" buttons without having to think about tactics, consequence, or counter-play is something I'd rather not see.
How is an uninterruptable channel more of an i-win button than an instant-cast ability?
Or in other words, wouldn't you agree that if you could interrupt SA ultimate, and only SA ultimate, it would be significantly less of an i-win button than pretty much every other ultimate there is?
Instant cast abilities I can evade/mitigate/counter by doing something other than block.
And what can you do against a meteor that wouldn't work against soul assault?
See the telegraph, go get a drink, come back and do one of the following, switch weapons, mist form, change my potions, move behind a tree, immediately counter attack the instant it lands, et al.
Is the telegraph of soul assault is so much less obvious and so much shorter than the one of meteor that you absolutely cannot react to it by mist forming, and moving behind a tree?
Or just simply block and counter attack right away, while the poor sod can't block whatever you decide to throw at him.
Yes.
When someone presses their Meteor ultimate button, the game tells you in about 3 seconds you are going to get hit and can plan ahead accordingly.
When someone presses their soul assault ultimate button, you immediately start taking damage and have to react. If you are on a different bar, you would have to swap and then activate the skill, which takes time and leaves you exposed to take the full damage. Moving behind a tree? You are 70% snared when hit with soul assault and that happens immediately. No, the poor sod can't block, but neither can they be stunned, let alone interrupted. And since you are blocking, super-snared, and cant even stun the soul assaulter, the "whatever" you throw at them in their counter attack is not going to be very threatening, let alone force them to decide whether or not to continue the channel, which might actually be interesting gameplay but ZoS wants none of that.
I would much rather get targeted by the meteor ultimate that is more than twice as expensive and it's not close. Which is a sad state of affairs because meteor is another ultimate with lazy mechanics.
I think you are just arguing this just for arguments sake. I despise the stam meta with a burning hatred and I have many times told ZoS how dumb it is in numerous ways, and even offered lengthy advice on how to get some semblance of balance back. The point of the matter is, yes, ZoS had the right intent on providing magicka with a cheap burst DPS alt available to everyone, but totally missed the boat on how to go about doing that with a lazy, noob-friendly design that is overly restrictive as far as counterplay. I dont want magicka to be competitive because I have a cheese Xv1 troll ultimate.
Strange. Almost every stam build I've come across, move at acceptable speed even with the 70% snare from my soul assault. They are taking 75k tooltip damage ticks that -cannot- be mitigated at all and get to the closest tree moving at a speed that is even with the snare, more then usual because Stam is the most mobile thing in the game.
Have you actually dueled people on PTS with this change? I can feel the damage difference now, I can't just melt people open field with it even though my tool-tip on it increased to 85k. Now they can block it. Magic builds can shield through it, vamps can mistform. It has a plethora of counters still. But at least now, when I use my damn ultimate, it is actually used.
Not so strange as stam, as you point out, if played intelligently, has it relatively easy when it comes to snares.
No, I don't have the PTS, but I've been soul assaulted (i.e. with the bad one on Live) enough to be familiar with what and does. I much rather be meteored because of the "Hey, look out!" warning the game is so kind to give such that the only time it incoveniences me is in a laggy enviroment.
I'm not going to sit here and say that soul assault is a death sentence because it's not. Its just more inconvenient and more frustrating. It's mechanics are dumb, encourage lazy gameplay, and a 3 second single target channel is not exactly the burst I'm looking for from the devs. I much rather have the old Dawnbreaker.1 -
Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I remember way way back around launch that this ability became the ONLY way a group could kill MurderThumbs. It was discovered when he was EMP, as a DK, with his build, at the time, that using this was a sure way to end his rampage. Of course if he had a healer it was pretty much not an issue. So lets look at the reasons this ability 2 years later has been revisited. Tanks. Lord have mercy the number of tanky builds that exist today in PVP is out outrageous. This ability is and will be known as the tank killer. You will find after 2.6 goes live that magic users are going to build an entire meta around this one ability. You will find soul strike and meteor to be the go to choices for them and Dare I say, this will become the new meta role for Magic Sorcs. They will eventually rival the stam sorc meta that is without question the FOTM class build at the moment. Roll dodgers are a simple side note in this story, because no one really worries about them. Tanks beware this meta build will be the counter to your "ha ha i cant die."
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