Another Fearless stab in the dark about balance!

FearlessOne_2014

What made PvP unfun for myself and maybe others. Is the fact ZOS decided it was a good to nerf magicka into the ground. Then after all of the magicka nerfs. To give Stamina based players the ability to kill magicka based players with absolutely no skill. Super high burst damage/DPS, high sustain via Vigor + Rally + evasion + dealing damage directly with roll dodging. That before we add the RNG procing sets that are highly effective atm.

The comparable skill floor and ceiling between Magicka and Stamina now is beyond out of wack. I mean for crying out loud stamina has super high burst damage RNG sets. That which can easily instantly kill nearly any current 5 or 7 piece light armor wearing off of the battlefield by simply light attacking. I don't think with the exception of the shield stacking sorcerer. That we've ever been so far from any resemblance of balance in this game. Even then the shield stacking sorc had to work for his/her kills, and didn't had them feed to them. I mean come on all of the decent defensive abilities of the game tied to only one of the DPSing resource pools of the game. Shields have been so nerfed into the grounds. That with my builds today shields are actually a bane and not a boon in my case. I suspect this to be the case of many many others with similar play styles.

- What I think that needs to not happen is removing the limiter on Stamina Sprinting. Instead what needs to happen in my personal opinion at least is that. Sprinting, Roll Dodging, Break Free, Blocking should either. Be completely move off of the stamina resource pool, to one of their own. Or that which ever is higher, Max Stamina or Max Magicka on that's players character sheet. Should be used for the mentioned abilities above.

- Also either a major evasion nerf a big one, or a big shield buff.

- Either those or how about we mention something completely extreme. Just as how extreme the stamina meta is atm. If your Max Magicka is higher then your Max Stamina then all abilities that cost stamina is unusable. If your Max Stamina is higher then your Max Magicka then all abilities that cost magicka becomes unusable.

If the upper management does not change there business practice. Then I personally so forsee this game losing more of it's community. Faster then ANet is with GW2 after they implement such tactics to increase sales. It increased sales for the first month and after that. Hear we are in GW2 where both WvW and sPvP game modes, are almost completely barren wastelands deprived of players presence, and support. All because ANet thought it so be a good ideal the intentionally gimp whole players play styles. Then rotate the gimped players play styles every month. Until more and more players just stopped playing. Most active guilds that was full of life in that game. Are now reporting out of the 201 plus players. Only 10 or so have logged on in the past 3 months. All the rest of those players. Don't even log into the game ,to collect their free daily log in rewards. If the higher ups at ZOS are fine with killing their own game, just like ANet did with theirs. I'm perfectly fine with that too personally. Just means again another group of names added to my blacklist of, do not buy game from if x person's name is on it. Perfect business model right guys? *** off consumers so much that they will not even touch a future product, that has that names of your people or company name in it.

Again just another stab in the dark for balance. I am very interested what all parties, that this can effect thinks?

Cronopoly

I concur. I'm at the point where I don't even know how anyone can even have a straight face about the over the top Stamina favored mechanics in the game. Item sets are more powerful than any Class Skills.

New Character creation screens should be redesigned to say (Stamina or Magicka) as Class is largely irrelevant excepting Templar. Throw 64 pool points one way or the other and call it a day. I jest of course but making a point.

Let Classless (no pun intended) users go to Class guilds to learn which skills they wish to master. Almost like...hold for it...Skyrim. Talk about water under the bridge four+ years ago when development started... I know it's a fantasy and not going to happen. I'm just illustrating how I thought "the way" was lost long ago. sue me.

Being shoehorned into ineffectiveness by Stat pool.

Armitas

I think the only thing keeping the combat focused players to ESO is the lack of a competing game but that will not always be the case. When a new game comes out that can compete and cares about combat that portion of the community will leave.

These guys are breaking the game while they are waiting to fix it. It's complete negligence. It's like flying a plane. The engineer says, "hey you have too much weight for your planes engine." The pilot says "yeah but I'm going to get a bigger engine when I land." Now How can I fit this, this and that into the plane before I take off."

LegacyDM

The problem with this game is ZOS ignore the real issues around balancing. They try to balance via armor sets making the situation worse and worse.

It appears its a conscious business decision. They may be worried that by introducing a nerf or a buff they will lose more customers than if they introduced armor sets and tweaked them over time. If they do introduce s nerf they blame it on an error in the algorithm (e.g., multiplicative vs additive).

They need to deal with it head on and be transparent. Not try to cover up their balance issues by creating more and more unbalanced sets or blame it on faulty algorithms.

Stoopid_Nwah

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

- Either those or how about we mention something completely extreme. Just as how extreme the stamina meta is atm. If your Max Magicka is higher then your Max Stamina then all abilities that cost stamina is unusable. If your Max Stamina is higher then your Max Magicka then all abilities that cost magicka becomes unusable.

So you want magicka users to not be able to dodge roll, break free, block, use rapids, and for magicka dks to lose a gap closer option with invasion. Oh and no more magicka classes being able to utilize caltrops or shuffle with the cp 120 passive perk-unchained.

Get rid of major evasion and stupid rng sets first, then I'd say go from there if more balancing is needed. And please at least try to make your posts grammatically sound.

FearlessOne_2014

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

- Either those or how about we mention something completely extreme. Just as how extreme the stamina meta is atm. If your Max Magicka is higher then your Max Stamina then all abilities that cost stamina is unusable. If your Max Stamina is higher then your Max Magicka then all abilities that cost magicka becomes unusable.

So you want magicka users to not be able to dodge roll, break free, block, use rapids, and for magicka dks to lose a gap closer option with invasion. Oh and no more magicka classes being able to utilize caltrops or shuffle with the cp 120 passive perk-unchained.

Get rid of major evasion and stupid rng sets first, then I'd say go from there if more balancing is needed. And please at least try to make your posts grammatically sound.

Wow as always you never fail to show how constructive, you can be in my threads or posts. I love it, trust me I really do. However on a more serious note. Did you come he attempting to troll me, and or my thread? Or did you come have to discus issues related to the topic here?

Stoopid_Nwah

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

- Either those or how about we mention something completely extreme. Just as how extreme the stamina meta is atm. If your Max Magicka is higher then your Max Stamina then all abilities that cost stamina is unusable. If your Max Stamina is higher then your Max Magicka then all abilities that cost magicka becomes unusable.

So you want magicka users to not be able to dodge roll, break free, block, use rapids, and for magicka dks to lose a gap closer option with invasion. Oh and no more magicka classes being able to utilize caltrops or shuffle with the cp 120 passive perk-unchained.

Get rid of major evasion and stupid rng sets first, then I'd say go from there if more balancing is needed. And please at least try to make your posts grammatically sound.

Wow as always you never fail to show how constructive, you can be in my threads or posts. I love it, trust me I really do. However on a more serious note. Did you come he attempting to troll me, and or my thread? Or did you come have to discus issues related to the topic here?

Was I not clear enough in my disagreement with the "extreme" option you gave? Pretty sure I gave plenty of reasons why I think it would hurt magicka even more. With this option there would have to be a separate pool for break free, dodge roll, and block. So let's pretend this is the case AND your "extreme" option is implemented alongside it. Magicka loses utility skills like rapids, shuffle, caltrops, invasion and defensive posture. Stamina loses a bulk of their CC options, defensive options outside of dodging/shuffle like cloak and wings, and many buff abilities like igneous weapons and crit surge. And in pve it would ruin tanks.

Then I wrote what I think should be the first step in handling the stam/magicka imbalance. To be clear and repeat myself, major evasion does not have a place in pvp imo. At least not as a 20sec buff. I also think rng sets that can instakill while giving decent sustain should be drastically reworked.

Finally, I offered you some advice: some people can tolerate walls of text filled with spelling and grammatical errors, but others cannot (to the extent they won't even bother reading it). It's better to have as many people as possible reading this and posting, than it is to have a chunk of the population ignore it for reasons that can be avoided.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

There's three things I think could fix a long way toward fixing PvP balance:
1. Soft Caps.
2. Soft Caps.
3. Soft Caps.

I think that about covers it.

Pinja

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

There's three things I think could fix a long way toward fixing PvP balance:
1. Soft Caps.
2. Soft Caps.
3. Soft Caps.

I think that about covers it.

That's only going to work partially, it's not that simple. If some abilities or sets are more effective then others, it won't matter how high the max stat will be if you don't/can't apply it properly. Shielders will always be stuck to get hit, projectiles will always be subject to miss, & it just so happens that both styles are gimped to the same genre.
Not to mention what is this going to do to the extra damage procs, its just going to allow greater out-put without a draw back.
Say at a max everyone can only put out 7000dmg/s, will my poision orb give an extra 3k or deduct 3k from whatever else I put out that sec. Say I put all 7k into a frag & it misses, were's the balance?

Stoopid_Nwah

Pinja wrote: »

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

There's three things I think could fix a long way toward fixing PvP balance:
1. Soft Caps.
2. Soft Caps.
3. Soft Caps.

I think that about covers it.

That's only going to work partially, it's not that simple. If some abilities or sets are more effective then others, it won't matter how high the max stat will be if you don't/can't apply it properly. Shielders will always be stuck to get hit, projectiles will always be subject to miss, & it just so happens that both styles are gimped to the same genre.
Not to mention what is this going to do to the extra damage procs, its just going to allow greater out-put without a draw back.
Say at a max everyone can only put out 7000dmg/s, will my poision orb give an extra 3k or deduct 3k from whatever else I put out that sec. Say I put all 7k into a frag & it misses, were's the balance?

Agreed. Soft caps would help the insane damage numbers that are reachable, but at the end of the day, I really believe major evasion + rng sets are what need to be fixed first. There's no skill left in pvp .

MrTarkanian48

Honestly, I expect Magicka to get another buff at some point. The problem is that when imbalances arise, ZOS seems to have their content planned for the next two DLC's already. Don't expect sweeping magicka buff changes in One Tamriel.

Just play one of your stamina alts until Magicka gets buffed back to the top, and enjoy yourself.

FearlessOne_2014

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

There's three things I think could fix a long way toward fixing PvP balance:
1. Soft Caps.
2. Soft Caps.
3. Soft Caps.

I think that about covers it.

That's only going to work partially, it's not that simple. If some abilities or sets are more effective then others, it won't matter how high the max stat will be if you don't/can't apply it properly. Shielders will always be stuck to get hit, projectiles will always be subject to miss, & it just so happens that both styles are gimped to the same genre.
Not to mention what is this going to do to the extra damage procs, its just going to allow greater out-put without a draw back.
Say at a max everyone can only put out 7000dmg/s, will my poision orb give an extra 3k or deduct 3k from whatever else I put out that sec. Say I put all 7k into a frag & it misses, were's the balance?

Agreed. Soft caps would help the insane damage numbers that are reachable, but at the end of the day, I really believe major evasion + rng sets are what need to be fixed first. There's no skill left in pvp .

Yes this is another thing we can agree on. As for me now. I'm going to focus on PvPing. In another game with this eSports clan that accepted me after trial period. So needless to say. My personal investment in ESO as of now. Is at a all time low. Getting ready to watch the debut of this game's first multi-million USD eSports event, this year. My clan has currently assigned me a coach to get me up to speed. So far I've clocked 189 hours and is almost qualified to participate in the ranked league matches. Oh yeah and this game pumps out balancing updates at least once a month if not twice a month. And explain why they've nerfed and buffed the things they did. As of such they one of the top profitable multi player games out.

But yeah I am sadly awaiting the day in ESO where. I'll be able to come back and say told yall so. When all but 15 to 30 players are bothering with Cyrodiil across all of the factions. When ZOS would be forced to completely kill it's entire community. By going completely Pay to Win set gear and weapons dropping from RNG boxes. Just to keep server up to try to milk the rest of yall.

Remember Rift
Remember DCUO
Remember D&D Neverwinter
Remember GW2
Remember NA/EU's BDO
Remember NA/EU's BnS

It will not be long before I'm able to add ESO to that list as well. ZOS is completely committed to the short road. Winter is coming soon mark my words. All of these games was ruined because the company did what ZOS is going to do with ESO. As of now the ESO's community's days are numbered. Very few gamers like to play and support inherently intentionally unbalanced MMOs. The trend has been and will continue to be this way.

Players like myself would rather throw $500 or more. To be instantly geared and leveled, for PvP competition.Instead of playing games of companies that tries to insult what intelligence we have. With intentional balance issues, that are design to push players to spend irl money on the store.

The MMO Apocalypse is here. I can feel the end coming near.

Stoopid_Nwah

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

There's three things I think could fix a long way toward fixing PvP balance:
1. Soft Caps.
2. Soft Caps.
3. Soft Caps.

I think that about covers it.

That's only going to work partially, it's not that simple. If some abilities or sets are more effective then others, it won't matter how high the max stat will be if you don't/can't apply it properly. Shielders will always be stuck to get hit, projectiles will always be subject to miss, & it just so happens that both styles are gimped to the same genre.
Not to mention what is this going to do to the extra damage procs, its just going to allow greater out-put without a draw back.
Say at a max everyone can only put out 7000dmg/s, will my poision orb give an extra 3k or deduct 3k from whatever else I put out that sec. Say I put all 7k into a frag & it misses, were's the balance?

Agreed. Soft caps would help the insane damage numbers that are reachable, but at the end of the day, I really believe major evasion + rng sets are what need to be fixed first. There's no skill left in pvp .

Yes this is another thing we can agree on. As for me now. I'm going to focus on PvPing. In another game with this eSports clan that accepted me after trial period. So needless to say. My personal investment in ESO as of now. Is at a all time low. Getting ready to watch the debut of this game's first multi-million USD eSports event, this year. My clan has currently assigned me a coach to get me up to speed. So far I've clocked 189 hours and is almost qualified to participate in the ranked league matches.

But yeah I am sadly awaiting the day in ESO where. I'll be able to come back and say told yall so. When all but 15 to 30 players are bothering with Cyrodiil across all of the factions. When ZOS would be forced to completely kill it's entire community. By going completely Pay to Win set gear and weapons dropping from RNG boxes. Just to keep server up to try to milk the rest of yall.

Remember Rift
Remember DCUO
Remember D&D Neverwinter
Remember GW2
Remember NA/EU's BDO
Remember NA/EU's BnS

It will not be long before I'm able to add ESO to that list as well. ZOS is completely committed to the short road. Winter is coming soon mark my words. All of these games was ruined because the company did what ZOS is going to do with ESO. As of now the ESO's community's days are numbered. Very few gamers like to play and support inherently intentionally unbalanced MMOs. The trend has been and will continue to be this way.

Players like myself would rather throw $500 or more. To be instantly geared and leveled, for PvP competition.Instead of playing games of companies that tries to insult what intelligence we have. With intentional balance issues, that are design to push players to spend irl money on the store.

The MMO Apocalypse is here. I can feel the end coming near.

I agree about adding ESO to that list. It seems like every part has slowly been falling apart (at least on xbox)...most PVP campaigns are buff servers that are empty, the competitive campaigns have an enormous amount of lag, the game has turned into some RNG grind (thinking of maelstrom) which I seriously believe is just to keep players here longer, PVE leaderboards keep getting exploited, everyone assumes everyone is cheating, the community feels unheard, balance seems unattainable, the economy has tanked hard due to exploits and the way the guild trader system works, the "l33t" pvpers just run cheese sets, and the list goes on...

Sure people will say well just leave then, but it's really hard to let it go. The Elder Scrolls series is my absolute favourite, and I know that if just some of the above things were fixed in the game that eso could be beyond amazing. I'm just not ready to let go of hope yet, but my play time has most certainly been dwindling.

Rohamad_Ali

Need to look into how damage stacks with stamina and find an equivalent in spell power . Making new sets , soft caps and buffing abilities won't fix anything until this gets addressed . We already got light armor nerfs a long time ago and burn so much resources on protection that Our damage should count for something .

scorpiodog

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

What made PvP unfun for myself and maybe others. Is the fact ZOS decided it was a good to nerf magicka into the ground. Then after all of the magicka nerfs. To give Stamina based players the ability to kill magicka based players with absolutely no skill. Super high burst damage/DPS, high sustain via Vigor + Rally + evasion + dealing damage directly with roll dodging. That before we add the RNG procing sets that are highly effective atm.

The comparable skill floor and ceiling between Magicka and Stamina now is beyond out of wack. I mean for crying out loud stamina has super high burst damage RNG sets. That which can easily instantly kill nearly any current 5 or 7 piece light armor wearing off of the battlefield by simply light attacking. I don't think with the exception of the shield stacking sorcerer. That we've ever been so far from any resemblance of balance in this game. Even then the shield stacking sorc had to work for his/her kills, and didn't had them feed to them. I mean come on all of the decent defensive abilities of the game tied to only one of the DPSing resource pools of the game. Shields have been so nerfed into the grounds. That with my builds today shields are actually a bane and not a boon in my case. I suspect this to be the case of many many others with similar play styles.

- What I think that needs to not happen is removing the limiter on Stamina Sprinting. Instead what needs to happen in my personal opinion at least is that. Sprinting, Roll Dodging, Break Free, Blocking should either. Be completely move off of the stamina resource pool, to one of their own. Or that which ever is higher, Max Stamina or Max Magicka on that's players character sheet. Should be used for the mentioned abilities above.

- Also either a major evasion nerf a big one, or a big shield buff.

- Either those or how about we mention something completely extreme. Just as how extreme the stamina meta is atm. If your Max Magicka is higher then your Max Stamina then all abilities that cost stamina is unusable. If your Max Stamina is higher then your Max Magicka then all abilities that cost magicka becomes unusable.

If the upper management does not change there business practice. Then I personally so forsee this game losing more of it's community. Faster then ANet is with GW2 after they implement such tactics to increase sales. It increased sales for the first month and after that. Hear we are in GW2 where both WvW and sPvP game modes, are almost completely barren wastelands deprived of players presence, and support. All because ANet thought it so be a good ideal the intentionally gimp whole players play styles. Then rotate the gimped players play styles every month. Until more and more players just stopped playing. Most active guilds that was full of life in that game. Are now reporting out of the 201 plus players. Only 10 or so have logged on in the past 3 months. All the rest of those players. Don't even log into the game ,to collect their free daily log in rewards. If the higher ups at ZOS are fine with killing their own game, just like ANet did with theirs. I'm perfectly fine with that too personally. Just means again another group of names added to my blacklist of, do not buy game from if x person's name is on it. Perfect business model right guys? *** off consumers so much that they will not even touch a future product, that has that names of your people or company name in it.

Again just another stab in the dark for balance. I am very interested what all parties, that this can effect thinks?

I agree with the general idea, but not really on the specifics Here are my solutions:
1 - They need to stop putting out new stamina armor sets until they fix the ones that are broken and/or unbalanced. Instead they are launching a whole bunch of new sets that will push the imbalance further.
2 - They need to make cooldowns for skills equal to the animation time. I don't care if I see the animation, but getting hit with five attacks in a fraction of a second because someone programmed a gaming mouse just isn't a fun game.
3 - They need to fix any other combat cheats / exploits that have been around forever.
4 - The need to adjust magika sets to be comparable in power/versatility to Stamina sets.

I have a Stamina Build but I don't even want to PvP. It just isn't fun to play a competitive sport when the opponent is obviously cheating, and if you don't cheat you are at a distinct disadvantage.

PvP now is like watching that boxing match where the guy wrapped his fists in plaster before putting on his gloves, but instead of being permanently banned from boxing as happened in real life, he is allowed to come back and the practice of wrapping your hands in plaster would be the new boxing meta with no repercussions.

DRXHarbinger

Many stam DKs and NBs have fallen to my mighty magsorc tonight. For more kills than deaths. ..still not getting the problem you all have. Magplar again not problem, I have not had any problems at all.

For the record I do not follow this stupid HA crap that's going around atm, I wear 5 light, 1 med, 1 heavy, and go with a trial dps build on all my pvp toons and it works fine.

Everytime I see some sorc challenge me stacked with heavy kags, chucking that stupid curse out and laying mine downs I laugh him off and slap him to the floor everytime. You can very easily rock 18k spell pen soon 20+, have a huge shield on any class and heals on all mag builds. It's really not hard to kill anything on a mag build.

People can dodge roll all they like, I'll never run out of magika but they'll run out of stam in most cases esp DKs very quickly. The trick is to bide your time, just park up and spam shields, they are so used to popping vigor and shuffle as routine they'll deplete all resources quickly and then slay them.

Sorcs frag them down, make them break free, streak, make them break free. They'll be useless in no time.

Magblade, just fear them, use agony make them burn that stam.

DKs just spam deep breath and they'll never be able to dizzying swing, wasting stam and again when recovering from the stun, deep breath, meteor and power lash whilst having your dots on them will kill anyone.

Temp. ..charge a heavy and chuck a javelin, jab them on the floor to full health, and really given the options to damage and heal at the same time you shouldn't be having any problems.

As Wrobel said if there are 10 of them you're dead anyway, doesnt matter if they are level 10s or all mag or stam chances are you're dead.

1v1 every mag class has no reason to not win, the issue is the player, everyone just builds too defensively.

Stoopid_Nwah

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Magblade, just fear them, use agony make them burn that stam.

Tbh, you're significantly better off as a magblade putting up the cripple dot then getting ready to burst with meteor, agony and the spectral bow. I don't know what brainless stam users you're running into, but most of the ones I know have very few issues with their stam management and they try to stay on the offensive with their proc sets.

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

DKs just spam deep breath and they'll never be able to dizzying swing, wasting stam and again when recovering from the stun, deep breath, meteor and power lash whilst having your dots on them will kill anyone.

Also since when did dizzying swing become an interruptible attack...?

Honestly whether or not you can still kill people in Cyrodiil means quite little, but I am always happy to hear about successful sorc stories. I could also tell of success stories where I laugh at stamblades light attacking to try to proc their stupid RNG stuff on me (I still believe some don't know what else to do), and then the hate comes when they realize they died instantly to a meteor combo they didn't bother to see coming.

A huge issue here is that 99% of stam users run major evasion which just really doesn't have a place in PVP imo. Another issue is that there are more and more stam RNG sets with the ability to instakill as a non-gank build. Viper+widowmaker+velidreth, viper+eternal hunt+veli...I mean seriously?

If you don't build for at least some defense as a magicka user, you're as good as dead in that paper armour. We also can't just go purely offensive if we don't want to run out of magicka within seconds. All the stam sorcs running like 700 regen...go try running that low of regen on a magicka character and let me know how it works out lol. And it doesn't help that a lot of magicka attacks are projectile based so it's a lot of "dodge, dodge, dodge" with more wasted magic.

FearlessOne_2014

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

There's three things I think could fix a long way toward fixing PvP balance:
1. Soft Caps.
2. Soft Caps.
3. Soft Caps.

I think that about covers it.

That's only going to work partially, it's not that simple. If some abilities or sets are more effective then others, it won't matter how high the max stat will be if you don't/can't apply it properly. Shielders will always be stuck to get hit, projectiles will always be subject to miss, & it just so happens that both styles are gimped to the same genre.
Not to mention what is this going to do to the extra damage procs, its just going to allow greater out-put without a draw back.
Say at a max everyone can only put out 7000dmg/s, will my poision orb give an extra 3k or deduct 3k from whatever else I put out that sec. Say I put all 7k into a frag & it misses, were's the balance?

Agreed. Soft caps would help the insane damage numbers that are reachable, but at the end of the day, I really believe major evasion + rng sets are what need to be fixed first. There's no skill left in pvp .

Yes this is another thing we can agree on. As for me now. I'm going to focus on PvPing. In another game with this eSports clan that accepted me after trial period. So needless to say. My personal investment in ESO as of now. Is at a all time low. Getting ready to watch the debut of this game's first multi-million USD eSports event, this year. My clan has currently assigned me a coach to get me up to speed. So far I've clocked 189 hours and is almost qualified to participate in the ranked league matches.

But yeah I am sadly awaiting the day in ESO where. I'll be able to come back and say told yall so. When all but 15 to 30 players are bothering with Cyrodiil across all of the factions. When ZOS would be forced to completely kill it's entire community. By going completely Pay to Win set gear and weapons dropping from RNG boxes. Just to keep server up to try to milk the rest of yall.

Remember Rift
Remember DCUO
Remember D&D Neverwinter
Remember GW2
Remember NA/EU's BDO
Remember NA/EU's BnS

It will not be long before I'm able to add ESO to that list as well. ZOS is completely committed to the short road. Winter is coming soon mark my words. All of these games was ruined because the company did what ZOS is going to do with ESO. As of now the ESO's community's days are numbered. Very few gamers like to play and support inherently intentionally unbalanced MMOs. The trend has been and will continue to be this way.

Players like myself would rather throw $500 or more. To be instantly geared and leveled, for PvP competition.Instead of playing games of companies that tries to insult what intelligence we have. With intentional balance issues, that are design to push players to spend irl money on the store.

The MMO Apocalypse is here. I can feel the end coming near.

I agree about adding ESO to that list. It seems like every part has slowly been falling apart (at least on xbox)...most PVP campaigns are buff servers that are empty, the competitive campaigns have an enormous amount of lag, the game has turned into some RNG grind (thinking of maelstrom) which I seriously believe is just to keep players here longer, PVE leaderboards keep getting exploited, everyone assumes everyone is cheating, the community feels unheard, balance seems unattainable, the economy has tanked hard due to exploits and the way the guild trader system works, the "l33t" pvpers just run cheese sets, and the list goes on...

Sure people will say well just leave then, but it's really hard to let it go. The Elder Scrolls series is my absolute favourite, and I know that if just some of the above things were fixed in the game that eso could be beyond amazing. I'm just not ready to let go of hope yet, but my play time has most certainly been dwindling.

I wasn't ready to let go either myself. However after looking at the first PTS notes. That pushed me to the line. Then after ZOS confirmed what I witnessed in other past failed MMOs. I was pretty destroyed. Being a TES fanboy and all. Then the 2nd PTS notes showed them selves. I've found I had nothing left emotionally to gave to the gave or get from the game. I went from being completely destroyed, to completely numb in all of 10 seconds flat. Now I have no feelings at all for ZOS destroying one of my 3 most beloved series in gaming. Now at least in my case I am to the point. I only log in to feed my mounts, and research the last of my 9 traits. Till my gold runs out in about another 15 days or so.I no longer get any enjoyment out of the game. I am at peace. I am finally at a position that I can finally move on now.

Maybe I'll go look for a decent up front Pay to Win game. One where the balance is geared to who ever then spend the most cash. Do not have to grind. Step all over those that can't afford to spend money. Where only those who can. Will be able to compete with me. Pretty much how I played Eve Online back in 2009 still remember that game. As the MMO I've spent the most money on over the course of a 9 year and counting spree. With 2009 clocking over $7000 USD spent on Eve Online trying to pay my alliance way into 0.0 space. Worked for about 3 months till the coalitions that had the player numbers and resources was able to kick us out. 10/10 Do not for a second regret that $7k plus USD on that game for that year. Had my most EPIC and ICONIC PvP battles in that game.

Rohamad_Ali

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Many stam DKs and NBs have fallen to my mighty magsorc tonight. For more kills than deaths. ..still not getting the problem you all have. Magplar again not problem, I have not had any problems at all.

For the record I do not follow this stupid HA crap that's going around atm, I wear 5 light, 1 med, 1 heavy, and go with a trial dps build on all my pvp toons and it works fine.

Everytime I see some sorc challenge me stacked with heavy kags, chucking that stupid curse out and laying mine downs I laugh him off and slap him to the floor everytime. You can very easily rock 18k spell pen soon 20+, have a huge shield on any class and heals on all mag builds. It's really not hard to kill anything on a mag build.

People can dodge roll all they like, I'll never run out of magika but they'll run out of stam in most cases esp DKs very quickly. The trick is to bide your time, just park up and spam shields, they are so used to popping vigor and shuffle as routine they'll deplete all resources quickly and then slay them.

Sorcs frag them down, make them break free, streak, make them break free. They'll be useless in no time.

Magblade, just fear them, use agony make them burn that stam.

DKs just spam deep breath and they'll never be able to dizzying swing, wasting stam and again when recovering from the stun, deep breath, meteor and power lash whilst having your dots on them will kill anyone.

Temp. ..charge a heavy and chuck a javelin, jab them on the floor to full health, and really given the options to damage and heal at the same time you shouldn't be having any problems.

As Wrobel said if there are 10 of them you're dead anyway, doesnt matter if they are level 10s or all mag or stam chances are you're dead.

1v1 every mag class has no reason to not win, the issue is the player, everyone just builds too defensively.

I'm assuming this is a troll at this point .

Stoopid_Nwah

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

There's three things I think could fix a long way toward fixing PvP balance:
1. Soft Caps.
2. Soft Caps.
3. Soft Caps.

I think that about covers it.

That's only going to work partially, it's not that simple. If some abilities or sets are more effective then others, it won't matter how high the max stat will be if you don't/can't apply it properly. Shielders will always be stuck to get hit, projectiles will always be subject to miss, & it just so happens that both styles are gimped to the same genre.
Not to mention what is this going to do to the extra damage procs, its just going to allow greater out-put without a draw back.
Say at a max everyone can only put out 7000dmg/s, will my poision orb give an extra 3k or deduct 3k from whatever else I put out that sec. Say I put all 7k into a frag & it misses, were's the balance?

Agreed. Soft caps would help the insane damage numbers that are reachable, but at the end of the day, I really believe major evasion + rng sets are what need to be fixed first. There's no skill left in pvp .

Yes this is another thing we can agree on. As for me now. I'm going to focus on PvPing. In another game with this eSports clan that accepted me after trial period. So needless to say. My personal investment in ESO as of now. Is at a all time low. Getting ready to watch the debut of this game's first multi-million USD eSports event, this year. My clan has currently assigned me a coach to get me up to speed. So far I've clocked 189 hours and is almost qualified to participate in the ranked league matches.

But yeah I am sadly awaiting the day in ESO where. I'll be able to come back and say told yall so. When all but 15 to 30 players are bothering with Cyrodiil across all of the factions. When ZOS would be forced to completely kill it's entire community. By going completely Pay to Win set gear and weapons dropping from RNG boxes. Just to keep server up to try to milk the rest of yall.

Remember Rift
Remember DCUO
Remember D&D Neverwinter
Remember GW2
Remember NA/EU's BDO
Remember NA/EU's BnS

It will not be long before I'm able to add ESO to that list as well. ZOS is completely committed to the short road. Winter is coming soon mark my words. All of these games was ruined because the company did what ZOS is going to do with ESO. As of now the ESO's community's days are numbered. Very few gamers like to play and support inherently intentionally unbalanced MMOs. The trend has been and will continue to be this way.

Players like myself would rather throw $500 or more. To be instantly geared and leveled, for PvP competition.Instead of playing games of companies that tries to insult what intelligence we have. With intentional balance issues, that are design to push players to spend irl money on the store.

The MMO Apocalypse is here. I can feel the end coming near.

I agree about adding ESO to that list. It seems like every part has slowly been falling apart (at least on xbox)...most PVP campaigns are buff servers that are empty, the competitive campaigns have an enormous amount of lag, the game has turned into some RNG grind (thinking of maelstrom) which I seriously believe is just to keep players here longer, PVE leaderboards keep getting exploited, everyone assumes everyone is cheating, the community feels unheard, balance seems unattainable, the economy has tanked hard due to exploits and the way the guild trader system works, the "l33t" pvpers just run cheese sets, and the list goes on...

Sure people will say well just leave then, but it's really hard to let it go. The Elder Scrolls series is my absolute favourite, and I know that if just some of the above things were fixed in the game that eso could be beyond amazing. I'm just not ready to let go of hope yet, but my play time has most certainly been dwindling.

I wasn't ready to let go either myself. However after looking at the first PTS notes. That pushed me to the line. Then after ZOS confirmed what I witnessed in other past failed MMOs. I was pretty destroyed. Being a TES fanboy and all. Then the 2nd PTS notes showed them selves. I've found I had nothing left emotionally to gave to the gave or get from the game. I went from being completely destroyed, to completely numb in all of 10 seconds flat. Now I have no feelings at all for ZOS destroying one of my 3 most beloved series in gaming. Now at least in my case I am to the point. I only log in to feed my mounts, and research the last of my 9 traits. Till my gold runs out in about another 15 days or so.I no longer get any enjoyment out of the game. I am at peace. I am finally at a position that I can finally move on now.

Maybe I'll go look for a decent up front Pay to Win game. One where the balance is geared to who ever then spend the most cash. Do not have to grind. Step all over those that can't afford to spend money. Where only those who can. Will be able to compete with me. Pretty much how I played Eve Online back in 2009 still remember that game. As the MMO I've spent the most money on over the course of a 9 year and counting spree. With 2009 clocking over $7000 USD spent on Eve Online trying to pay my alliance way into 0.0 space. Worked for about 3 months till the coalitions that had the player numbers and resources was able to kick us out. 10/10 Do not for a second regret that $7k plus USD on that game for that year. Had my most EPIC and ICONIC PvP battles in that game.

I'm going to just play Morrowind probably. Super easy for me to get totally absorbed in that game . I live in far too expensive a place to be wasting money on cash grab, p2w games lol. Plus games like that never really leave me feeling satisfied/skilled/happy about wins, just completely apathetic really.

I'll see what happens with One Tamriel when it's live before I make any decisions. For now, I'm going to try to get as many achievements as possible (already have some of the bigger/difficult/time consuming ones anyway).

And @Rohamad_Ali I was really hoping it was a troll post, but parts of it made me think they were dead serious

smacx250

I'm a magicka player, so I feel the pain. But after years of stam neglect, and the resulting tiny playerbase, ZOS needed to overbuff stamina in order to balance the stamina/magicka playerbase. If stam wasn't OP, people wouldn't move to it in droves, and the entrenched magicka playerbase would remain. When they figure enough have moved to stam, they'll nerf it/buff magicka, and the great cycle of balance will move on. Check out "cyclical imbalance" in the latter part of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

Rohamad_Ali

smacx250 wrote: »

I'm a magicka player, so I feel the pain. But after years of stam neglect, and the resulting tiny playerbase, ZOS needed to overbuff stamina in order to balance the stamina/magicka playerbase. If stam wasn't OP, people wouldn't move to it in droves, and the entrenched magicka playerbase would remain. When they figure enough have moved to stam, they'll nerf it/buff magicka, and the great cycle of balance will move on. Check out "cyclical imbalance" in the latter part of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

Watch the end of that video again . If the players keep bringing it up , it probably is broken and not a perfect imbalance .

smacx250

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

I'm a magicka player, so I feel the pain. But after years of stam neglect, and the resulting tiny playerbase, ZOS needed to overbuff stamina in order to balance the stamina/magicka playerbase. If stam wasn't OP, people wouldn't move to it in droves, and the entrenched magicka playerbase would remain. When they figure enough have moved to stam, they'll nerf it/buff magicka, and the great cycle of balance will move on. Check out "cyclical imbalance" in the latter part of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

Watch the end of that video again . If the players keep bringing it up , it probably is broken and not a perfect imbalance .

Sorry I wasn't clear. I don't mean to say that I think the situation is "perfect imbalance", just that they may be working under the "cyclical imbalance" principal to correct the current imbalance in the player base, and that the pendulum will swing back to magicka in the future (and hopefully it doesn't swing quite so far each time!).

FearlessOne_2014

smacx250 wrote: »

I'm a magicka player, so I feel the pain. But after years of stam neglect, and the resulting tiny playerbase, ZOS needed to overbuff stamina in order to balance the stamina/magicka playerbase. If stam wasn't OP, people wouldn't move to it in droves, and the entrenched magicka playerbase would remain. When they figure enough have moved to stam, they'll nerf it/buff magicka, and the great cycle of balance will move on. Check out "cyclical imbalance" in the latter part of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

I'll have fun playing this perfectly imbalanced sPvP game. While yall get eased by gear procing off of light attacks.

Have fun with that guys.

GrumpyDuckling

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

There's three things I think could fix a long way toward fixing PvP balance:
1. Soft Caps.
2. Soft Caps.
3. Soft Caps.

I think that about covers it.

100% agree from a PVP perspective. The PVE in me says, "Ut oh, I'll never complete VMA if soft caps are in the game." It's all a damage race.

DHale

I don't want any nerfs to Stam but want magic to be buffed to equal which it is not. I watched Kodi one of the best pc players on na dust off his magic DK and get obliterated. It was cringe worthy to watch. This guy probably has 2 k hours on that toon. It was NO BUENO. This guy one v exes with best of them. People like Staffa and blob and vyr cor can do it but it's not the class it's them they are the beasts the class is, meh.

Cronopoly

smacx250 wrote: »

I'm a magicka player, so I feel the pain. But after years of stam neglect, and the resulting tiny playerbase, ZOS needed to overbuff stamina in order to balance the stamina/magicka playerbase. If stam wasn't OP, people wouldn't move to it in droves, and the entrenched magicka playerbase would remain. When they figure enough have moved to stam, they'll nerf it/buff magicka, and the great cycle of balance will move on. Check out "cyclical imbalance" in the latter part of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

That ridiculousness doesn't work on everyone. Some of us leave the game after getting treated like a lemming for long.

The short of it is the same dev team created the imbalances to begin with in this cyclical nature continue to ignore the please of the playerbase to bring some semblance of parity. That's what burns us up. No accountability.

We knew from the PTS long ago that Proxy / Alchemist / Vicious Death was a ridiculous idea as delivered. Magicka players of course mentioned no good would come of this. Then afterwards it's like the Magicka players were blamed for the "Imbalance" and the tide turning. The same is happening now with Stamina. Yet the devs come clear out and say there is no intentional bias in the delivery of this imbalance...that they designed?!?! On purpose.

The players didn't design Viper/Widowmaker/Eternal Hunt/Velidreth which stack, oh so nicely for the Burst they deliver. Some of these sets can kill you with the enemy damn near just auto attacking or just spamming one skill and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

Looking at 1 Tamriel, I would admit I like the delivery of all the different sets for PVE. That said, in PVP there's absolutely nothing that assists Magicka classes come up to par. Flat out the Stamina pool for CCbreak, Dodge Roll, Block and Sprint are KEY PVP mechanics. Sorcs shields covered up that crutch for years.

Now it's nearly all Sorcs can do is constantly shield while having very little ability to apply little tactical pressure on anyone competant. Only the pro keyboard/mouse macro users do well. That's right, I said it. They program it right on the edge of not getting flagged, which is still way faster than pure finger pushers. I don't and never will.

Additionally all the Stamina burst abilities vs all the time delayed, windup, 8% or 10% chance to proc crap on all Magica classes. Just apply more dots meanwhile Vigor/Rally/and Dodge Roll/Evade laughs at your Magicka Dots.

There's only one single Magicka spell that Stam classes fear. One in the entire game and only on one class. Jesus Beam. Is the LOS seemingly broken? yup, is the Execute range likely too damn high at 50%? yup. However there's nothing left for Magicka, burst wise. I know, two wrongs by design... Just calling it as I see it.

Stoopid_Nwah

Cronopoly wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

I'm a magicka player, so I feel the pain. But after years of stam neglect, and the resulting tiny playerbase, ZOS needed to overbuff stamina in order to balance the stamina/magicka playerbase. If stam wasn't OP, people wouldn't move to it in droves, and the entrenched magicka playerbase would remain. When they figure enough have moved to stam, they'll nerf it/buff magicka, and the great cycle of balance will move on. Check out "cyclical imbalance" in the latter part of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

That ridiculousness doesn't work on everyone. Some of us leave the game after getting treated like a lemming for long.

The short of it is the same dev team created the imbalances to begin with in this cyclical nature continue to ignore the please of the playerbase to bring some semblance of parity. That's what burns us up. No accountability.

We knew from the PTS long ago that Proxy / Alchemist / Vicious Death was a ridiculous idea as delivered. Magicka players of course mentioned no good would come of this. Then afterwards it's like the Magicka players were blamed for the "Imbalance" and the tide turning. The same is happening now with Stamina. Yet the devs come clear out and say there is no intentional bias in the delivery of this imbalance...that they designed?!?! On purpose.

The players didn't design Viper/Widowmaker/Eternal Hunt/Velidreth which stack, oh so nicely for the Burst they deliver. Some of these sets can kill you with the enemy damn near just auto attacking or just spamming one skill and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

Looking at 1 Tamriel, I would admit I like the delivery of all the different sets for PVE. That said, in PVP there's absolutely nothing that assists Magicka classes come up to par. Flat out the Stamina pool for CCbreak, Dodge Roll, Block and Sprint are KEY PVP mechanics. Sorcs shields covered up that crutch for years.

Now it's nearly all Sorcs can do is constantly shield while having very little ability to apply little tactical pressure on anyone competant. Only the pro keyboard/mouse macro users do well. That's right, I said it. They program it right on the edge of not getting flagged, which is still way faster than pure finger pushers. I don't and never will.

Additionally all the Stamina burst abilities vs all the time delayed, windup, 8% or 10% chance to proc crap on all Magica classes. Just apply more dots meanwhile Vigor/Rally/and Dodge Roll/Evade laughs at your Magicka Dots.

There's only one single Magicka spell that Stam classes fear. One in the entire game and only on one class. Jesus Beam. Is the LOS seemingly broken? yup, is the Execute range likely too damn high at 50%? yup. However there's nothing left for Magicka, burst wise. I know, two wrongs by design... Just calling it as I see it.

I play all magicka characters, but was on the pro-range nerf side of radiant destruction (alongside stam nerfs or magicka buffs) to get to some sort of balance. But with the patch notes and all of the nonsense, cheese rng sets going on, I have switched sides because I just gave up on caring. Give every magicka character a beam I say. Double the range. Triple the damage. MOAR!

MalakithAlamahdi

What I think needs to be changed again:

Soft caps: bring them back, I still don't understand why they got removed.

Damage based on resource pool: We already have a stat for this, called weapon and spell damage. A bigger pool should only mean you can pull off more skills, not do more damage with them. Now you either go for substain with plenty of regen, or a lot of damage and a big pool so you can burst them down before you run out.

RNG: this shouldn't even exist in a "skill based" game. We have stats you can alter like crit chance, this is enough randomness for one game (I have no problem with crit chance).

Less snares and stunns: This ruins the flow of the game a lot. At this point everyone always has a 60% or so snare on them, if everyone is snared all the time we might as well remove it all together, with the exception of perhaps low slash because you actually cut someone In the feet, but maks it 20%, not 60%.

Game responsiveness: Break free, weapon swap and several other things are still very clunky at times. I remember how bad some things were at beta which got improved a lot now, but these things are still not working well enough so they shouldn't stop improving it.

Balance: they told me I could build my char the way i want and still be effective, but now you must build it in some sort of way or you'll really handicap yourself. I used to run a hybrid Templar with about 2.5k regen in all stats, that was good fun. The same is for the armor sets and the meta. First they favoured magicka, and now stamina is grossly overpowered, why not just balance them so neither is OP and both can be enjoyed as much?

Whoever calls the shots at zenimax must have been drunk for at least a year now, go to a clinic already.

Armitas

smacx250 wrote: »

I'm a magicka player, so I feel the pain. But after years of stam neglect, and the resulting tiny playerbase, ZOS needed to overbuff stamina in order to balance the stamina/magicka playerbase. If stam wasn't OP, people wouldn't move to it in droves, and the entrenched magicka playerbase would remain. When they figure enough have moved to stam, they'll nerf it/buff magicka, and the great cycle of balance will move on. Check out "cyclical imbalance" in the latter part of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

Total believer in cyclical micro imbalance. My favorite part of the game is making champion B and then C and so on. ZOS just needs to understand what micro and cyclical means. It will likely be 3 years before we reach a single cycle. Their imbalance isn't planned either, it's more of a pandoras box approach. Throw out a fleet of new sets with massive potential and see what happens.

Lets say Sypher is the steroid weight lifter in the video representing the very top of click speed and reaction time and performance....

Perfect Balance = Sypher beats you like a spoiled child every hour of every day.

Perfect Imbalance = Sypher beats you a few times, then you start brain storming and develop champion B and beat Sypher. And then Sypher makes Champion C and beats you and so on. Everybody wins at some point.

Perfect imbalance is the better system it really is, it just has to be understood. I don't think ZOS is doing this though, they have been pressing the stamina button way too long and way too hard for it to be cyclical micro imbalance.