Heavy armor, overbuffed af?

olsborg

So I tried heavy armor (black rose) yesterday for the first time, ive been either light armor or medium armor in this game since the start. I found it insanely stronger then either of the other 2 armor types, imo they overbuffed it by FAR.

Toughts?

ku5h

True.

Apherius

True.

Wollust

Nope, it's mainly black rose and to some extent reactive.
Well that's my opinion after trying out different combinations of sets and weights.

jircris11

olsborg wrote: »

So I tried heavy armor (black rose) yesterday for the first time, ive been either light armor or medium armor in this game since the start. I found it insanely stronger then either of the other 2 armor types, imo they overbuffed it by FAR.

Toughts?

It may be a bit strong, but honestly before the buff it was extremely lackluster. I run 2 heavy 5 medium on my NB and i love it. the extra survivability helps me not die instantly (unless my ping thinks the middle of a boss fight is a great time to spike to 9k+. I think instead of nerfing heavy they should reword med and light to bring it up to par with heavy. I am tired of the constant nerfs, and besides resetting your skill points each time is a pain in the pocket.

olsborg

Thanks for input so far ppl, I should mention that Im speaking from a pvp perspective.

jircris11

olsborg wrote: »

Thanks for input so far ppl, I should mention that Im speaking from a pvp perspective.

Pvp or pve I still think they need to stop nerfing and just big the lack luster things lol.

olsborg

jircris11 wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Thanks for input so far ppl, I should mention that Im speaking from a pvp perspective.

Pvp or pve I still think they need to stop nerfing and just big the lack luster things lol.

Im not a fan of nerfing either, but atm the gap between light/medium and heavy is too much, this could ofc be because of blackrose (constitution). Balance is hard to achieve, atm its extremely unbalanced tho..

Skander

Heavy armor is fine, some heavy armor sets on the other way are broken.

leepalmer95

Yep overbuffed.

olsborg

Skander wrote: »

Heavy armor is fine, some heavy armor sets on the other way are broken.

I suspect youre talking about black rose and reactive?

sirrmattus

its oonly overbuffed for pvp, which is fine, since the meta is burst builds. with heavy armor you dont have the burst but you can put out a decent amount of damage will being able to withstand some of the major bursters

Kildayen

I don't think there is anything wrong with it, and Black Rose does exactly what it is supposed to do.

Lexxypwns

I switch between heavy and medium on my stamina characters and heavy and light on my mDK on a regular basis, every time I go heavy though I always have less fun than light/medium. I really feel like all 3 are viable choices for a variety of builds, which hasn't been true at any other point in the game. I think the real problem lies with buggy sets and cheesy combos allowing the stacking of healing buffs(major vitality/mending, which, in pvp have basically the same effect) with heavy armor healing passives and CP tree healing passives. The buff to heavy armor wasn't too much, per se, but they need to address some buff interaction between vitality/mending, likely by combining them into one buff with the major vitality effect. This wouldn't be a large pve change since most of the time you're over healing anyway, making stacking mending/vitality basically a waste

Rjizzle09

At the end of the day there needs to be a separation from pvp and pve. just because something is over performing in pvp doesnt mean it needs to be nerfed to the ground being useless in pve and vice versa. Until that day comes then it will continue to be unbalanced cause you cant balance around one play style in an mmo or youll just end up leaving a large croud in the dust while giving the other crowd what they asked for hence the reason we make forum posts

leepalmer95

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

At the end of the day there needs to be a separation from pvp and pve. just because something is over performing in pvp doesnt mean it needs to be nerfed to the ground being useless in pve and vice versa. Until that day comes then it will continue to be unbalanced cause you cant balance around one play style in an mmo or youll just end up leaving a large croud in the dust while giving the other crowd what they asked for hence the reason we make forum posts

Heavy never once had a problem in pve though, even before the buff.

Wing

not in the slightest.

only people that cannot one shot complain about heavy armor. people give up so much to be able to survive just a little bit and every [SNIP] DPS cries about it. proof lies in the complaints about reactive that does nothing to increase damage but helps mitigate gank damage, its literally an anti gank set and everyone cries about. sorry, not sorry.

if everything were balanced 1 out of every 3 people would be wearing heavy armor.

imagine all the forum tears if heavy armor were that viable .

FriedEggSandwich

Skander wrote: »

Heavy armor is fine, some heavy armor sets on the other way are broken.

From the perspective of someone who only wears 2 heavy in pvp I agree with this; the passives and mitigation don't seem overbuffed. Maybe it's just certain sets.

AnviOfVai

PVP:
Black rose armor set is based for tanks, it has to be strong and tanky... mainly its supposed to be used for sheilding and taking damage, being able to tap in the buffs it allows, but using this means your damage to other players is surpressed. I don't think its over powered at all. I have been using it since it was released in IC and have used it on Stamina based tanks and Magika. Either way you use the armor you can either go deal damage, die quicker. Or take damage like a pro, but can't give damage what so ever, so prey to god other players are around to save you.

leepalmer95

Wing wrote: »

not in the slightest.

only people that cannot one shot complain about heavy armor. people give up so much to be able to survive just a little bit and every full [SNIP] DPS cries about it. proof lies in the complaints about reactive that does nothing to increase damage but helps mitigate gank damage, its literally an anti gank set and everyone cries about. sorry, not sorry.

if everything were balanced 1 out of every 3 people would be wearing heavy armor.

imagine all the forum tears if heavy armor were that viable .

And what do they give up exactly?

Sustain? Constitution has better sustain than medium or light? 50% more back on heavy attacks.
Damage? Wraith.
Healing? Nah extra 8%
Survivability? Nah heavy = more armour

Oh and 10% more hp too.

Is there anything heavy doesn't give?

Wollust

Wing wrote: »

not in the slightest.

only people that cannot one shot complain about heavy armor. people give up so much to be able to survive just a little bit and every full [SNIP] DPS cries about it. proof lies in the complaints about reactive that does nothing to increase damage but helps mitigate gank damage, its literally an anti gank set and everyone cries about. sorry, not sorry.

if everything were balanced 1 out of every 3 people would be wearing heavy armor.

imagine all the forum tears if heavy armor were that viable .

That's a bunch of bs

Ahzek

Wing wrote: »

not in the slightest.

only people that cannot one shot complain about heavy armor. people give up so much to be able to survive just a little bit and every full [SNIP] DPS cries about it. proof lies in the complaints about reactive that does nothing to increase damage but helps mitigate gank damage, its literally an anti gank set and everyone cries about. sorry, not sorry.

if everything were balanced 1 out of every 3 people would be wearing heavy armor.

imagine all the forum tears if heavy armor were that viable .

Reactive is not just an anti gank set, its an anti burst set in a meta where to only way to kill people solo is through high burst. Naturally people will complain about a set that is pretty much designed to counter the current meta.
Everything would be fine and fun if this would mean that people can just move on to sustained DPS builds in order to have success, but the game does simply not support that playstyle in PvP and this is where reactve becomes over the top. When something is a hard counter to the only viable option it is too powerful.
Now I dont think they should nerf reactive, but instead make changes to the game that allow more offensive playstyles to have success in PvP, so that it is not a guaranteed life protection against solo players.

Edit: and just a quick comment on the popularity of heavy armor: in the last few duel sessions ive taken part in, it is probably fair to say that about 50% of all non magicka sorc participants have been running at least 5 pieces heavy armor, if not more.

Solariken

Nah, heavy armor is in a pretty good place at the moment. If anything is overbuffed it's all the burst damage sets.

Wing

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

not in the slightest.

only people that cannot one shot complain about heavy armor. people give up so much to be able to survive just a little bit and every full re**rd DPS cries about it. proof lies in the complaints about reactive that does nothing to increase damage but helps mitigate gank damage, its literally an anti gank set and everyone cries about. sorry, not sorry.

if everything were balanced 1 out of every 3 people would be wearing heavy armor.

imagine all the forum tears if heavy armor were that viable .

And what do they give up exactly?

Sustain? Constitution has better sustain than medium or light? 50% more back on heavy attacks.
Damage? Wraith.
Healing? Nah extra 8%
Survivability? Nah heavy = more armour

Oh and 10% more hp too.

Is there anything heavy doesn't give?

heavy armor sustain requires either a fully charged heavy attack (that any class can do Heavy armor is just slightly better) or you to take damage, light and medium armor get their sustain and cost reduction all the time regardless if they are being hit or not

Wrath also requires you to be constantly getting hit over a long period for it to ramp up to its mediocre amounts of damage, both medium and light get their damage bonuses all the time regardless of situation (crit, penetration, and bonus %damage)

heavy armor gains an extra 8% healing recived and is actually a decent passive, a drop in the bucket in the long run though, and even less so in pvp where healing is cut in half.

Survivability as in heavy armors actual mitigation, is only twice as good as light, and only a quarter better then medium. . .through not much effort everyone can bypass ridiculous amounts of armor and spell resist.

light gets a free 5k spell pen, sharpened is another 5k, congrats with literally no effort you ignore over a third of the maximum amount of armor achievable in the entire game. this is before things like crushing, night mothers, the new sets that add another flat 5k, maces bypass 20% on stamina, the new ult that ignores ALL armor and steals it and gives it to the DPS, destro ignores 10%


add to this heavy has a massive lack of mobility on par with light armor, but lite has both the ability to make up for it through class skills with its sustain, and the ability to perform its role from a range at witch it can maneuver and see the flow of battle.

Wing

Wollust wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

not in the slightest.

only people that cannot one shot complain about heavy armor. people give up so much to be able to survive just a little bit and every full [SNIP] DPS cries about it. proof lies in the complaints about reactive that does nothing to increase damage but helps mitigate gank damage, its literally an anti gank set and everyone cries about. sorry, not sorry.

if everything were balanced 1 out of every 3 people would be wearing heavy armor.

imagine all the forum tears if heavy armor were that viable .

That's a bunch of bs

salty DPS right here

Wing

btw if your annoyed at black rose being half way decent, or troll builds that are heavy reactive maulbeth. be aware that there are annoying and troll builds for every armor class not just heavy, heavy just finally got some decent sets.

vicious death proxy (insert ult of choice) bombs, the velidreth viper red mountain "win by proc" the eternal hunt "rolly polly" builds.

PVP will ALWAYS be annoying, regardless of armor.

Wollust

Wing wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

not in the slightest.

only people that cannot one shot complain about heavy armor. people give up so much to be able to survive just a little bit and every full [SNIP] DPS cries about it. proof lies in the complaints about reactive that does nothing to increase damage but helps mitigate gank damage, its literally an anti gank set and everyone cries about. sorry, not sorry.

if everything were balanced 1 out of every 3 people would be wearing heavy armor.

imagine all the forum tears if heavy armor were that viable .

That's a bunch of bs

salty DPS right here

Not at all, I play a heavy armor stam DK and a heavy armor magicka templar in PvP. Yet I still call your statement regarding heavy armor out. Heavy armor is completely viable and not stronger or weaker than light/medium armor, if we disregard black rose and reactive.
And reactive is especially cancerous because it's bugged, proccing from stuff it simply shouldn't. At least black rose is simply overtuned but not bugged or anything.

DKsUnite

stamina is what's overbuffed..... black rose to an extent is over performing a little.... heavy armour is okay otherwise

Tormy

Still haven't seen this op black rose or HA lol

Wing

Wollust wrote: »

Not at all, I play a heavy armor stam DK and a heavy armor magicka templar in PvP. Yet I still call your statement regarding heavy armor out. Heavy armor is completely viable and not stronger or weaker than light/medium armor, if we disregard black rose and reactive.
And reactive is especially cancerous because it's bugged, proccing from stuff it simply shouldn't. At least black rose is simply overtuned but not bugged or anything.

I would disagree to a point.

I agree that we are finally getting to a point that heavy armor is viable, its taken over 2 years, but were getting there. I would disagree that reactive and black rose are over tuned (bugs aside) and that they are simply the favorites (as there always are) its simply like kags, or vicious death, viper, red mountain, twice born.

there are always going to be favored sets

I will change my opinion the day I see trial 12 man groups with more then 1-2 people wearing heavy armor.

I will say I'm not surprised that the introduction of duels might foster a return of some heavy armor builds when your in a legit 1v1

Wollust

Wing wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Not at all, I play a heavy armor stam DK and a heavy armor magicka templar in PvP. Yet I still call your statement regarding heavy armor out. Heavy armor is completely viable and not stronger or weaker than light/medium armor, if we disregard black rose and reactive.
And reactive is especially cancerous because it's bugged, proccing from stuff it simply shouldn't. At least black rose is simply overtuned but not bugged or anything.

I would disagree to a point.

I agree that we are finally getting to a point that heavy armor is viable, its taken over 2 years, but were getting there. I would disagree that reactive and black rose are over tuned (bugs aside) and that they are simply the favorites (as there always are) its simply like kags, or vicious death, viper, red mountain, twice born.

there are always going to be favored sets

I will change my opinion the day I see trial 12 man groups with more then 1-2 people wearing heavy armor.

I will say I'm not surprised that the introduction of duels might foster a return of some heavy armor builds when your in a legit 1v1

This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Why should a non tank be wearing heavy to show it's balanced? If a DPS would wear heavy armor and pull competitive numbers that would be a thing to worry about. In PvE, there is a pretty clear distinction. Heavy armor for tanks, light and medium for DPS (and healers ofc). Heavy armor has always been fine in PvE. It was falling behind in PvP, but by now it's completely fine.