Yesterday The Guild Bank Was Robbed. Today The Thief Admitted Everything On Live Stream <3

Lumbermill_Emperor

ok
do you have any proofs its a bannable offence?
because i have proofs its not

Bouldercleave

I don't think one single post here claimed it was a bannable offense. That doesn't change the fact that it is an absolute *** thing to do.

Abeille

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Kildayen wrote: »

Not sure if it will help at all because I know ZOS's stance on people in a guild having access to a guild bank, but I am wondering how many times someone has gotten caught admitting to it in chat with video proof.

Yesterday a player who was in one of my guilds for about a year decided that he wanted to clear the bank out. One of the awesome things about this guild is people donate their time and materials so that everyone can have access to free food, drinks, materials etc. I know it is a risky business when you give access to everyone, but you kinda expect people who have been around for a while to be decent human beings, and you only get access if you have been part of the family for a while.

I take this stuff personally as I work in law enforcement in real life and I hate it when bad people do bad things to good people. I am not posting this because I am "butthurt". I am just curious if you feel that the evidence is grounds for ZOS doing something.

Anyway, I saw the person was online today. I never spoke to him before in my life. I sent him a whisper and he responded. I have the entire conversation recorded on video via Live Stream from Twitch to YouTube. The reason I am posting about it here is I am wondering with the evidence I have, will ZOS actually do something about what happened? I feel bad for the people who donated their efforts. I took no personal loss from what happened. I just feel bad for the others. I am going to email ZOS a link to the YouTube video showing the conversation and will be sure to spread the info on reddit and facebook groups as well. I can't post a link here because his info will be shown, but I can post the transcript. Here it is for your reading enjoyment

**note** I claimed that I donated my time and materials in the bank. None of the items he stole were mine. I said what I did to see how he would respond. The items he took belonged to the other hard working members of the guild. All names were left out so that I would not get into trouble for naming and shaming. You can see the full names on the un-edited version when it goes around on the other websites.

**transcript was copied exactly as it was typed by him. Not everything he responded with made sense, but he doesn't seem too educated anyway**

me: Yo
me: Wake up!

evil bad guy: ye?
evil bad guy: sorry i was eating breakfast

me: hey sorry to bug you. I don't expect to get a good reason, but I was wondering why you chose to empty out the guild bank of **** ****? I donated a lot of my materials and time to put that food together. It kind sucks that you did that
me: It really sucks that you did that
me: I put that stuff in there to help others, and you took all that away.
me: Should I expect a reason? Or are you just going to ignore the question?
me: Anything?

evil bad guy: yeah im a terrible person. i took an opportunity to make alot of bank. I know i was probably a trusted member of the guild since i was in it for a year but \_('*)_/
evil bad guy: is there a log anyway that says who took because i got found out pretty fast

me: yeah it shows everything in the guild history
me: I put a lot of effort into helping others

evil bad guy: LOL XD

me: and you took all of it away. Shows everything that you took.
me: Seriously, like why did you do it?
me: just to make money?

evil bad guy: yeah the economy is rough man

me: yeah but that was my money. All my donations and time spent...
me: you should give it all back
me: your thoughts?

evil bad guy: look my friend im a thief but im not a bad one here ill give you 10k for actually having the courage to confront me. Sorry man, next time the ***** people to increase the bank permissions or whatever. or just dont promote a guy like me.

me: 10k is all you'll give me? For all that? Come on man.
me: lol is this the first time you have done something like this? Have you robbed other guild banks too?

evil bad guy: hey if i was a huge d**k i wouldn't have given you anything man. I may be heartless for what I did but i've got about 1% of a soul
yeah its my first

me: Aren't you scared of losing your account? Getting banned?

evil bad guy: its not bannable look it up
evil bad guy: the devs have an official statement on it

me: Yeah but if you admit to taking something that is not yours for personal gain, that kinda negates that

evil bad guy: look man what i did is certainly not breaking any rules i know that for a fact well anyway try to have a nice day

**end transcript**

At this point he blocked me and I could not communicate with him anymore. I was a little upset about this because I really wanted him to know that this was all being live streamed and recorded and I didn't have the opportunity to tell him.

Here are some picture of the items he took. The guild history only goes back so far, so I was not able to get everything.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Let me know what you think!

I would go after the person who gave this player access to the bank. It isn't this players fault for doing what he did. It's the fault of the administrator who is in charge of granting special privileges to players of gaining access to such precious items.

Very typical for someone who refuses to take responsibility for ones own actions. Always blaming the other person.

That's the same excuse exploiters use. "It isn't my fault ZOS didn't fix the exploit". They know something is wrong and they do it anyway. It's their fault.

What the thief did, despite not being against the rules, is something extremely scummy. The only fault the other person committed was trusting too much.

Of course, unless the person who granted the thief bank access did that on purpose, knowing that the thief would clean the bank. But this is something that we can't just assume.

Elmour0Fudd

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

ok
do you have any proofs its a bannable offence?
because i have proofs its not

was wondering were you live that theft was acceptable or not, what would your reaction to it be if you had it happen to you/the guild your in.
Unless you would do the same thing why do you agree with this player's action's, it's not RP as you can do any of the guild stuff without touching anything except NPC's it's just Greed and laziness the individual was too idle to do his own work so he took it off other's.
Can't you see something wrong with that?
the thread already states that we all know there are no rule's against what he did but it sure as he** is wrong!

BlueViolet

Abeille wrote: »

That's the same excuse exploiters use. "It isn't my fault ZOS didn't fix the exploit". They know something is wrong and they do it anyway. It's their fault.

What the thief did, despite not being against the rules, is something extremely scummy. The only fault the other person committed was trusting too much.

Of course, unless the person who granted the thief bank access did that on purpose, knowing that the thief would clean the bank. But this is something that we can't just assume.

Agreed.

HE took it. Of his own free will, clearly. He owns the responsibility for that action, no one else. Just because you walk into a store with access to loads of items on racks or shelves doesn't mean it isn't someones fault if they choose to steal things.
JFC some people need life lessons.

What a scumbag. I too believe these are cases where naming and shaming is absolutely appropriate.

Lumbermill_Emperor

its still not again the rulers

Ashtaris

What I find most disturbing is the lack of morality and good judgement some people have demonstrated in their posts in this thread. The guy stole from the bank, plain and simple. He even admitted to the action. There is NO way you can justify this as anything but what it was, a theft. Just because ZOS hasn't implemented tools yet to prevent such theft doesn't give anyone the green light to clear out the bank. We all know right from wrong.

Kildayen

Ashtaris wrote: »

What I find most disturbing is the lack of morality and good judgement some people have demonstrated in their posts in this thread. The guy stole from the bank, plain and simple. He even admitted to the action. There is NO way you can justify this as anything but what it was, a theft. Just because ZOS hasn't implemented tools yet to prevent such theft doesn't give anyone the green light to clear out the bank. We all know right from wrong.

People are amazing. I've come to expect the horrible troll responses on these message boards. There are some very ugly people out there.

Abeille

Ashtaris wrote: »

What I find most disturbing is the lack of morality and good judgement some people have demonstrated in their posts in this thread. The guy stole from the bank, plain and simple. He even admitted to the action. There is NO way you can justify this as anything but what it was, a theft. Just because ZOS hasn't implemented tools yet to prevent such theft doesn't give anyone the green light to clear out the bank. We all know right from wrong.

Law and Morality. The old debate that has no good reason to still exist, other than to reinforce their separation for purely academic purposes.

And still, there are way too many people who can't separate the two. "Something must be wrong because it is against the law, something must be right because it is not against the law".
Well, something can certainly be absolutely immoral and still be legal, while something else can be completely socially acceptable and be illegal. I'm sure we all can think of a few examples in real life.

Replace "law" with "TOS" and that's pretty much what I see when I see posts saying that what the thief did isn't wrong because it is not against the TOS.

Ayantir

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom if you still don't know me, I'm one of your major addon authors, and still seeing this from years make me angry.

Please communicate at least or in a mood of crazyness, I'll give to all those *** a nice reward they could not join any guild anymore and be ashamed by everyone targetting them.

Please,

Thank you.

ElfFromSpace

Guildmasters have been begging ZOS for 2 years to do something about this. Such as multiple bank tabs, or limits on how many items can be taken out at a time, or both. ZOS just doesn't think that this or any of the other serious guild issues are a priority. While it's true that content drives players to keep playing the game, the guilds and social aspect is what makes this an MMO. Most players stay and or play more because of the social aspects. Doing a little to make the running of guilds easier on those who work so hard would go a long ways to helping the sustainability of the community.

No matter who you give guild bank permissions to, a guild bank is only really useful if access is shared. If it's shared then you have to trust those it's shared with and leaders CANNOT know their members well enough to really predict behavior. I would suggest for those with guild banks to limit how much is in it. Putting 2 stacks of purple food is enough to supply members using it without being such a tempting target. Usually the banks that get robbed are those with the highest values.

Sheezabeast

Oh that sucks Selfish people that don't mind hurting other people are just the worst Kildayen when I'm back from my hiatus let's talk (we're friends I use a different tag) I need to know if this guy is in any of my guilds, so I can restrict withdrawal privileges. Maybe I can donate to help rebuild your g-bank.

raidentenshu_ESO

Bouldercleave wrote: »

So the thief is not to blame simply because he was given the opportunity to be a *** head?

I agree that I would be FAR more wary of who got access than what happened here, but it is 100% the fault of the *** thief that stole from guildmates that were trying to work together.

Abeille wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Kildayen wrote: »

Not sure if it will help at all because I know ZOS's stance on people in a guild having access to a guild bank, but I am wondering how many times someone has gotten caught admitting to it in chat with video proof.

Yesterday a player who was in one of my guilds for about a year decided that he wanted to clear the bank out. One of the awesome things about this guild is people donate their time and materials so that everyone can have access to free food, drinks, materials etc. I know it is a risky business when you give access to everyone, but you kinda expect people who have been around for a while to be decent human beings, and you only get access if you have been part of the family for a while.

I take this stuff personally as I work in law enforcement in real life and I hate it when bad people do bad things to good people. I am not posting this because I am "butthurt". I am just curious if you feel that the evidence is grounds for ZOS doing something.

Anyway, I saw the person was online today. I never spoke to him before in my life. I sent him a whisper and he responded. I have the entire conversation recorded on video via Live Stream from Twitch to YouTube. The reason I am posting about it here is I am wondering with the evidence I have, will ZOS actually do something about what happened? I feel bad for the people who donated their efforts. I took no personal loss from what happened. I just feel bad for the others. I am going to email ZOS a link to the YouTube video showing the conversation and will be sure to spread the info on reddit and facebook groups as well. I can't post a link here because his info will be shown, but I can post the transcript. Here it is for your reading enjoyment

**note** I claimed that I donated my time and materials in the bank. None of the items he stole were mine. I said what I did to see how he would respond. The items he took belonged to the other hard working members of the guild. All names were left out so that I would not get into trouble for naming and shaming. You can see the full names on the un-edited version when it goes around on the other websites.

**transcript was copied exactly as it was typed by him. Not everything he responded with made sense, but he doesn't seem too educated anyway**

me: Yo
me: Wake up!

evil bad guy: ye?
evil bad guy: sorry i was eating breakfast

me: hey sorry to bug you. I don't expect to get a good reason, but I was wondering why you chose to empty out the guild bank of **** ****? I donated a lot of my materials and time to put that food together. It kind sucks that you did that
me: It really sucks that you did that
me: I put that stuff in there to help others, and you took all that away.
me: Should I expect a reason? Or are you just going to ignore the question?
me: Anything?

evil bad guy: yeah im a terrible person. i took an opportunity to make alot of bank. I know i was probably a trusted member of the guild since i was in it for a year but \_('*)_/
evil bad guy: is there a log anyway that says who took because i got found out pretty fast

me: yeah it shows everything in the guild history
me: I put a lot of effort into helping others

evil bad guy: LOL XD

me: and you took all of it away. Shows everything that you took.
me: Seriously, like why did you do it?
me: just to make money?

evil bad guy: yeah the economy is rough man

me: yeah but that was my money. All my donations and time spent...
me: you should give it all back
me: your thoughts?

evil bad guy: look my friend im a thief but im not a bad one here ill give you 10k for actually having the courage to confront me. Sorry man, next time the ***** people to increase the bank permissions or whatever. or just dont promote a guy like me.

me: 10k is all you'll give me? For all that? Come on man.
me: lol is this the first time you have done something like this? Have you robbed other guild banks too?

evil bad guy: hey if i was a huge d**k i wouldn't have given you anything man. I may be heartless for what I did but i've got about 1% of a soul
yeah its my first

me: Aren't you scared of losing your account? Getting banned?

evil bad guy: its not bannable look it up
evil bad guy: the devs have an official statement on it

me: Yeah but if you admit to taking something that is not yours for personal gain, that kinda negates that

evil bad guy: look man what i did is certainly not breaking any rules i know that for a fact well anyway try to have a nice day

**end transcript**

At this point he blocked me and I could not communicate with him anymore. I was a little upset about this because I really wanted him to know that this was all being live streamed and recorded and I didn't have the opportunity to tell him.

Here are some picture of the items he took. The guild history only goes back so far, so I was not able to get everything.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Let me know what you think!

I would go after the person who gave this player access to the bank. It isn't this players fault for doing what he did. It's the fault of the administrator who is in charge of granting special privileges to players of gaining access to such precious items.

Very typical for someone who refuses to take responsibility for ones own actions. Always blaming the other person.

That's the same excuse exploiters use. "It isn't my fault ZOS didn't fix the exploit". They know something is wrong and they do it anyway. It's their fault.

What the thief did, despite not being against the rules, is something extremely scummy. The only fault the other person committed was trusting too much.

Of course, unless the person who granted the thief bank access did that on purpose, knowing that the thief would clean the bank. But this is something that we can't just assume.

Well lets take it into consideration. Would you release a game knowing that it hasn't been properly tested by professional beta testers? If this game is so easily exploited then it's ZoS fault. They're responsible for maintaining their game in such way that it's impossible to cheat.

I do agree with one thing and one thing only... and that is that what this player did was scummy. IMO releasing the name of this person is not name shaming but to send out an alert to other guildmasters that kind of character this player is.

I would recommend that this gets posted on other social media sites such as Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/) so that you won't get in trouble for revealing the name of this player on this site. I don't know why, but ZoS protects even scumbag players from being exposed.

Jeephand

"This one sees a thousand sweetrolls and a sign reading 'free to the hungry'. J'Zargo thinks today he is very hungry."

Gargath

While I'm with you OP and I fully understand your grief, I feel that ZOS will do nothing on this, since they actually encourage players for wrong attitude with the game content - theft, murder, mugging.
In my opinion players doing this intentionaly should be stigmatized publicly and banned from community.
No repentance when caught on hand only means they are corrupted and no hope for them.

I also think the guild banks should have stronger security measures, like max. 10 pick ups from bank daily per account. No restrictions only for GMs.

Bryanonymous

I would just like to enlighten a few to some common sense concepts:

Can it get you banned? Just recognize that the answer to this question does not end the discussion. Saying 'it will not get you banned' really doesn't change the fact that it is a sleazy thing to do, and the discussion is about what SHOULD be done. Example: Should trial drops be BoP? Whether they are or not doesn't answer the question of preference.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, some are bringing up empathy and heartlessness... Come on people. Yes, it's an A-hole thing to do, but he took a bunch of mats an purple food, not your grandmothers SSI check. This is a first world video game problem, not someone capturing sex slaves and murdering in the name of their religion. Just be a little more aware of the reality of how insignificant this really is.

Yes, it should be considered griefing. There should be consequences. And there should be more options for control over the guild bank. Just take a deep breath and realize that no one was physically hurt, unless someone got so frustrated, they gave them self some stress related injury.

Jeephand

Try this: Leave two one hundred bills on a park bench in a poor neighborhood with a sign saying 'just take one please'. Set up a camera to catch whoever inevitably takes both of them. The next day go to the police with the footage demanding justice. Let us know how that works out.

Not all people are good people, this is why we keep valuable things in safe places and not just laying around.

Another lesson here is we can't control other people, just ourselves and the agreements we enter into. In this case you entered an agreement that relied too heavily on trusting other people to play in a way you think is fair. Surely, when depositing items you must have thought at one point 'but can't anyone just take ALL of this stuff if they wanted to?' All the guy did was violate an unspoken agreement about HOW MUCH to take and he decided he wanted it all which he had every right to. These MMOs are full of dirty rats, just like the real world. It's your job to safeguard your own valuables from them, not ZOS's. He didn't hack, he didn't steal, he didn't cheat. Someone just gave a jerk bank access and he went nuts. You can start your own guild of trustworthy crafters and keep a tight roster if you want to do that, which would be taking responsibility for your own belongings instead of trying to make it the developer's responsibility. They already gave you a personal bank.

Also, he sucks and sorry you lost you mountain of fake video game food. I never used a guild bank because I have no idea who 75 percent of them even are and assume a lot of them are probably untrustworthy punks anyway.

CherryCake

"look my friend, Im a thief but not a bad one" looool xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Iselin

Yes the guy is a low life *** but it's not a banable offense nor is there anything you can do about it.

Does that mean that ZOS has no responsibility? No.

They do simply because they've left the guild guild functionality in its simplistic state for more than two years. Something as simple as the guild leader being able to set a maximum number of daily withdrawals per member would prevent these wholesale large thefts that have happened many times to many guilds. I don't think I have ever seen an MMO with a guild system as lacking in features as this one so long after release.

Zensonar

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

its still not again the rulers

Is that an argument against any point anyone has made in this thread? No.

The point isn't that it's against the rules. The point is that the rules are dysfunctional.

andreasranasen

The fact that some of you side with that D-head of a thief is beyond me. If someone did this to our guild I would get his IP address, get their real name. Find them on social media and have my entire guild harass them on there. I believe it's much deserved

Gargath

Iselin wrote: »

Something as simple as the guild leader being able to set a maximum number of daily withdrawals per member would prevent these wholesale large thefts that have happened many times to many guilds. I don't think I have ever seen an MMO with a guild system as lacking in features as this one so long after release.

I cannot agree more, but guild system & mail system. Again, ZOS, why not taking example from SWTOR? Bioware already invented some great inventions which you still just working on .

Zensonar

Bryanonymous wrote: »

On the opposite end of the spectrum, some are bringing up empathy and heartlessness... Come on people. Yes, it's an A-hole thing to do, but he took a bunch of mats an purple food, not your grandmothers SSI check. This is a first world video game problem, not someone capturing sex slaves and murdering in the name of their religion. Just be a little more aware of the reality of how insignificant this really is.

Yes, it should be considered griefing. There should be consequences. And there should be more options for control over the guild bank. Just take a deep breath and realize that no one was physically hurt, unless someone got so frustrated, they gave them self some stress related injury.

If you invite me into your home and I tear the pages out of every book on your bookshelves, have I physically hurt anyone? No. It's just paper. Nobody got captured or murdered. It would just be a first world book related problem. In the grand scheme of things, something like this might seem trivial. But to the person whom the books belonged to, it might be heartbreaking. And, unless I was a 3 year old that had no idea what I was doing, there is no doubt that my empathy would be questionable for doing something like that.

Mojmir

should do like the other thread and ask for a public apology,yea that will fix it.

Bryanonymous

Zensonar wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

On the opposite end of the spectrum, some are bringing up empathy and heartlessness... Come on people. Yes, it's an A-hole thing to do, but he took a bunch of mats an purple food, not your grandmothers SSI check. This is a first world video game problem, not someone capturing sex slaves and murdering in the name of their religion. Just be a little more aware of the reality of how insignificant this really is.

Yes, it should be considered griefing. There should be consequences. And there should be more options for control over the guild bank. Just take a deep breath and realize that no one was physically hurt, unless someone got so frustrated, they gave them self some stress related injury.

If you invite me into your home and I tear the pages out of every book on your bookshelves, have I physically hurt anyone? No. It's just paper. Nobody got captured or murdered. It would just be a first world book related problem. In the grand scheme of things, something like this might seem trivial. But to the person whom the books belonged to, it might be heartbreaking. And, unless I was a 3 year old that had no idea what I was doing, there is no doubt that my empathy would be questionable for doing something like that.

Meh, the books might have been junk. Of course, I would be pissed though, more about the breaking in, but life goes on. As I said, I do feel it was grief worthy, however just recognize the value of the digital items when using words like heartless.

Zensonar

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Meh, the books might have been junk. Of course, I would be pissed though, more about the breaking in, but life goes on. As I said, I do feel it was grief worthy, however just recognize the value of the digital items when using words like heartless.

Indeed, life goes on. And it fades, and expires, and rots, and is forgotten. As will all life. The earth will die. The sun and the stars will burn out. All will perish in the heat death of the universe. Everything we do is futile and meaningless.

Lumbermill_Emperor

Zensonar wrote: »

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

its still not again the rulers

Is that an argument against any point anyone has made in this thread? No.

The point isn't that it's against the rules. The point is that the rules are dysfunctional.

but its not rude or wrong if it was Role Play action

Jeephand

andreasranasen wrote: »

The fact that some of you side with that D-head of a thief is beyond me. If someone did this to our guild I would get his IP address, get their real name. Find them on social media and have my entire guild harass them on there. I believe it's much deserved

I haven't seen anyone side with him. I'm not sure you know what stealing means tho. If you brought a bottle of wine to share at a party and I took it and drank the whole thing by myself in the corner, it's not stealing, it's just being a rude jerk, which is what literally everyone here has been calling him. You couldn't get me on theft charges and the police wouldn't care because it's not illegal to be rude...to take too much of what is being offered. This is why it's funny some think ZOS should give a crap like it's somehow violating a law. Bringing real life stalking and harassment into your video game world problems would definitely be considered a much more bannable, if not jailable offense. Please get a grip and try not to hurt anyone over digital bervez fruit. ☺

Actually, I'm starting to like this guy after all. His reply was pretty funny and honest. I'd kick him from the guild tho obviously.

Drummerx04

Man... he even took the 200 Ta...

Lumbermill_Emperor

i usually destroying Ta