Yesterday The Guild Bank Was Robbed. Today The Thief Admitted Everything On Live Stream <3

jarradarab

Thats what you get for having an open guild bank. The guilds im in i just message a higher up and they get the item out for me. Thats how you should run it, its the internet man, trust nobody.

Bryanonymous

Mojmir wrote: »

Inubis wrote: »

NoRagret wrote: »

The thief has right to withdraw one or all items in bank, if anyone is responsible its yourself. Nie could you please stop bragging about your lack of responsibilty and accountability on forums? Thanks.

Oh wait, so when someone steals your identity and orders things off the internet in your name it's your fault?!? Good to know.

If you gave them permission to access it,yes.

Kind of like how a bank gives the tellers access to their vault, so if the teller decides to clean out the vault, it's the banks fault... You know, because stealing only happens because the victims allowed it.

Inubis

Mojmir wrote: »

Inubis wrote: »

NoRagret wrote: »

The thief has right to withdraw one or all items in bank, if anyone is responsible its yourself. Nie could you please stop bragging about your lack of responsibilty and accountability on forums? Thanks.

Oh wait, so when someone steals your identity and orders things off the internet in your name it's your fault?!? Good to know.

If you gave them permission to access it,yes.

I see I see... So if you take your computer to say Best Buy and allow them to "fix it" for you and in the process of allowing them "access" they steal sensitive personal information it is in no way the techs "fault" but rather your own. Ok, I think it is all starting to make sense.

Tandor

Inubis wrote: »

NoRagret wrote: »

The thief has right to withdraw one or all items in bank, if anyone is responsible its yourself. Nie could you please stop bragging about your lack of responsibilty and accountability on forums? Thanks.

Oh wait, so when someone steals your identity and orders things off the internet in your name it's your fault?!? Good to know.

I thought this topic was about someone who was given full access to the guild bank making full use of the rights accorded to him, when did identity theft and obtaining goods by criminal deception come into it?

I don't defend what the guy did, there's no justification or defence for that and I hope that ZOS feel they can act on the extra evidence provided in this case as well as tightening up the guild access arrangements. However, as long as guilds give full bank access to all members rather than restricting it to a few known and trusted officers then it's likely to be an ongoing problem. The issue isn't helped by the lack of community spirit and guild loyalty fostered by a system that allows multiple guild memberships.

JD2013

I would definitely like to see better and stricter permissions for guild banks.

Sorry this happened to you, OP. They guy is clearly an immense ***.

Mattock_Romulus

Did anyone in the guild sign a written agreement outlining how much they could withdraw from the guild bank?

If not, it's difficult to make the case he was stealing since he simply acted with the withdrawal privileges he was granted.

BFT88

I think what people need to realize is the fact that these people sweet talk their way into ranks with the ability to withdraw from the bank, the will wait for as long as it takes days weeks months, then flip a 180 personality-wise and jack the guild bank.

There is no amount of damage control you can do upfront to stop that, short of making guild withdrawals the equivalent of russia and only allowing the guild leader to withdraw from the bank.

Inubis

Tandor wrote: »

Inubis wrote: »

NoRagret wrote: »

The thief has right to withdraw one or all items in bank, if anyone is responsible its yourself. Nie could you please stop bragging about your lack of responsibilty and accountability on forums? Thanks.

Oh wait, so when someone steals your identity and orders things off the internet in your name it's your fault?!? Good to know.

I thought this topic was about someone who was given full access to the guild bank making full use of the rights accorded to him, when did identity theft and obtaining goods by criminal deception come into it?

I don't defend what the guy did, there's no justification or defence for that and I hope that ZOS feel they can act on the extra evidence provided in this case as well as tightening up the guild access arrangements. However, as long as guilds give full bank access to all members rather than restricting it to a few known and trusted officers then it's likely to be an ongoing problem. The issue isn't helped by the lack of community spirit and guild loyalty fostered by a system that allows multiple guild memberships.

LOL, it started because I was bored and sadly morality isn’t just black and white. That said I agree with your entire last paragraph.

Paulington

Hopefully some day very soon we see an enhanced guild bank permission system, it's something the game very much needs.

Rohamad_Ali

This is why I keep most of my stuff in personal bank and only donate things I do not care get stolen . It's terrible we don't have more guild bank options like limiting amount of withdrawal per day .

Voxicity

Zensonar wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

If anything, posting about it on forums with transcripts and such could be considered harassment, which is a bannable offense

Seriously? That's the angle you're gonna go with?

Yes, in terms of bannable offences

Voxicity

Kildayen wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

If anything, posting about it on forums with transcripts and such could be considered harassment, which is a bannable offense

lol you're funny

I'm not being funny. It's the truth

Voxicity

BFT88 wrote: »

I think what people need to realize is the fact that these people sweet talk their way into ranks with the ability to withdraw from the bank, the will wait for as long as it takes days weeks months, then flip a 180 personality-wise and jack the guild bank.

There is no amount of damage control you can do upfront to stop that, short of making guild withdrawals the equivalent of russia and only allowing the guild leader to withdraw from the bank.

You literally just solved the problem in your last sentence.

Banana

Some people need a kick in the nuts

Bouldercleave

Although not a bannable offense, I think ZoS should tag said individuals with the title "Guild Thief" and they should be forced to wear it unless they return all items and funds.

What a tool.

zerosingularity

Lol, economy is rough my foot, tell that to those of us making money without being jerks. We don't need to steal to make money, we work for it.

No matter how you try to cut it, this is still theft, and he admitted it as such. All members are notified that you may not steal, and to take what you give. Just because you are ABLE to do something, does not make it excusable.

Additionally, since not only did this person admit to this action, there is absolutely 0 doubt of guilt (whether you agree it is bannable or not, guilt still remains). Therefore I feel it is fully appropriate to name and shame said person.

This is not a case of someone being accused of something, this is someone who admitted to being guilty of theft. If you let someone into your house and stuff gets stolen, it's still theft even though you gave access to them. If the ToS does not allow for punishment of such an action, then it may be in need of review. Again, this is because we actually have a confession of guilt, with no remorse, unlike accusations of players cheating that we see so very often.

SHADOW2KK

The guy who done this to you is a piece of dishonourable crap OP, I feel for ya man.

If I were you, I would completely lock the bank down, so only the GM can withdraw, if anyone wants anything, then they talk to you, or a inner circle of highly trusted officers.

Its the only way to deal with crap like this.

Xjcon

I think all of you who seem to think it's OK to empty a bank just because you have access to it even though you did not put the stuff their, are just as bad as the person who took it. It's not right and if the community is going to accept that it's just how it is then it's a bad day for the ESO community.

alephthiago

Just watched your video, i hope zos can do something provided all the evidence about what happened

Violynne

Kildayen wrote: »

I know it is a risky business when you give access to everyone, but you kinda expect people who have been around for a while to be decent human beings, and you only get access if you have been part of the family for a while.

I take this stuff personally as I work in law enforcement in real life and I hate it when bad people do bad things to good people.

*takes off the gloves

For someone who works in law enforcement, you should have been the first line of defense protecting everyone's stuff and recommended more security be put in place to prevent such a grand theft.

Your real life job should have given you an insight about this risk.

Now, because you're feeling bad for others, you expect ZoS to rectify the situation?

Sorry, but I can't defend this action. Your guild was robbed, in a game that promotes thievery. He was right: he didn't break any rules.

Now you must face the consequences of the actions of allowing everyone access to the goods or not be adamant enough to warn such an action carried a massive risk.

I'm sure everyone in the guild is having a bad day, but now it's time to either rebuild the bank's assets or disband the guild.

I'm actually a bit more upset with you trying to get ZoS to correct the lack of common sense than I am the thief at this point.

*puts gloves back on.

Time to go pick some Kresh fibers.

zerosingularity

Violynne wrote: »

Kildayen wrote: »

I know it is a risky business when you give access to everyone, but you kinda expect people who have been around for a while to be decent human beings, and you only get access if you have been part of the family for a while.

I take this stuff personally as I work in law enforcement in real life and I hate it when bad people do bad things to good people.

*takes off the gloves

For someone who works in law enforcement, you should have been the first line of defense protecting everyone's stuff and recommended more security be put in place to prevent such a grand theft.

Your real life job should have given you an insight about this risk.

Now, because you're feeling bad for others, you expect ZoS to rectify the situation?

Sorry, but I can't defend this action. Your guild was robbed, in a game that promotes thievery. He was right: he didn't break any rules.

Now you must face the consequences of the actions of allowing everyone access to the goods or not be adamant enough to warn such an action carried a massive risk.

I'm sure everyone in the guild is having a bad day, but now it's time to either rebuild the bank's assets or disband the guild.

I'm actually a bit more upset with you trying to get ZoS to correct the lack of common sense than I am the thief at this point.

*puts gloves back on.

Time to go pick some Kresh fibers.

Hindsight, absolutely useless when something like theft or another criminal offense happens. Go get robbed, then come back, your feelings on the subject will change. (I don't actually WANT you to get robbed, but you know what I mean I hope.)

To be fair, this applies to everyone who feels nothing bad happened, and that the person who did the thieving did nothing wrong. He did, whether the rules say so or not, that means nothing. If the laws cannot punish him, so be it, but that doesn't mean anyone has to show respect or dignity to someone who feels no remorse for a theft they admitted to.

I'm probably just cheesed off, cause I do not personally tolerate such behavior like stealing. It may happen all the time, but its not something that is acceptable.

Jaiden

OP, can you send me a pm of who this person is so I don't invite him to my guild please.

Kildayen

Violynne wrote: »

Kildayen wrote: »

I know it is a risky business when you give access to everyone, but you kinda expect people who have been around for a while to be decent human beings, and you only get access if you have been part of the family for a while.

I take this stuff personally as I work in law enforcement in real life and I hate it when bad people do bad things to good people.

*takes off the gloves

For someone who works in law enforcement, you should have been the first line of defense protecting everyone's stuff and recommended more security be put in place to prevent such a grand theft.

Your real life job should have given you an insight about this risk.

Now, because you're feeling bad for others, you expect ZoS to rectify the situation?

Sorry, but I can't defend this action. Your guild was robbed, in a game that promotes thievery. He was right: he didn't break any rules.

Now you must face the consequences of the actions of allowing everyone access to the goods or not be adamant enough to warn such an action carried a massive risk.

I'm sure everyone in the guild is having a bad day, but now it's time to either rebuild the bank's assets or disband the guild.

I'm actually a bit more upset with you trying to get ZoS to correct the lack of common sense than I am the thief at this point.

*puts gloves back on.

Time to go pick some Kresh fibers.

This has to be the oddest response that I never expected. This is not my bank. It is not my stuff. I am just trying to be helpful to a guild. Thanks for trolling.

SHADOW2KK

Xjcon wrote: »

I think all of you who seem to think it's OK to empty a bank just because you have access to it even though you did not put the stuff their, are just as bad as the person who took it. It's not right and if the community is going to accept that it's just how it is then it's a bad day for the ESO community.

Exactly, rather sad to see such a horrific view on this being that cos its in the bank and you have access to it, you can just loot everything? what, so others cant get stuff they need?

The guy the OP mentioned deliberately looted the entire bank, and some of you defend that? what is wrong with you people?

Normally, decent people just take a few things, a few recipes or whatever, but looting the whole thing for personal gain is ok for some people?

To the ones who think this is acceptable, there is something seriously wrong with your moral compasses.

A equivalent would be someone who has access to your house as they are trusted, and they rob you blind, but I suppose its ok, cos they are not breaking any rules, hope that is of consolation to you sitting in your home with floorboards and the whole place devoid of your stuff.

Utter idiocy.

biovitalb16_ESO

Sad part is I can read his name if I enlarge those images, so you will get in trouble for that, and ZOS will do absolutely nothing for you.

Mojmir wrote: »

Inubis wrote: »

NoRagret wrote: »

The thief has right to withdraw one or all items in bank, if anyone is responsible its yourself. Nie could you please stop bragging about your lack of responsibilty and accountability on forums? Thanks.

Oh wait, so when someone steals your identity and orders things off the internet in your name it's your fault?!? Good to know.

If you gave them permission to access it,yes.

This is another ZOS problem, unlike every other MMO on the planet this one is all or nothing. You either have guild bank access or you don't. They need to add limits to the amount of stuff people can withdrawal.

Dracane

It's an MMO and roleplay is a big part of it. Thieves exist in this world and a very good thief will attempt to get access to such a guild and gain the trust of the members and take the chance to abuse it.

In my opinion, nobody should get banned for this. Every mercenary tells you, that you shouldn't trust anyone.
I celebrate thieves who have the guts to do this. And I know, that the divines will judge over them, sooner or later.
And I know, that the divines will acknowledge OPs warm heart, sooner or later.

Pandorii

Wow. Why is everyone being so unsupportive of the OP? Unbelievable! By showing me that evidence, I am 100 percent on your side, OP, that guy is a piece of scum, and it is important that the community know about it if it's not possible to take disciplinary action.

Now I'm going to go on a tangent... for those of you who are making the argument that it's the OP's fault for not having some absurdly complicated mechanism for extracting items in the guild bank, what are you thinking?

First, if you create a system where guild members must request items from guild leaders, you're: a.) alienating the quiet more shy gamers who would be embarrassed to ask (don't anybody dare insult introversion as a second-rate personality type, because I'll rip your head off. =^o^= like more than half of us who play games are I's.), b.) it puts unnecessary pressure on guild leaders, creating what I call 'guild leader fatigue,' making people not want to take on the extra responsibility to run guilds. If I wanted to volunteer to help run a guild, I would not want to wake up every morning to log into the game and have 12 requests from randos asking me to take items out for them. Plus, what do you do if there aren't any guild leaders on when you need the items? It's not efficient. It's not practical, and it's not fun. Second, how will the guild members know what is in the guild bank? Will they have to toggle through pages and pages of deposit history while cross-checking it with the withdrawn history to make sure it hasn't been taken out? Yea... nope. I'm not going to do that.

Lastly, guilds are supposed to create COMMUNITY. If I have to choose among three different guilds, one doesn't have a guild bank, one has a guild bank locked behind guild leaders, and the other has an open guild, I'm probably going to feel most welcome and most comfortable in the open one.

How unrealistic is it for you all to empathize with the OP? It's happened to us all, if you've played a few months and been part of guilds. Look at all the supportive people who are saying, 'yea that stinks. it's happened to me. ZOS should implement some guild bank access features.' Instead you JUDGE the OP and try to come up with these lame excuses as to why he is at fault?

Umm...no. It's not the OPs fault that the guild bank access features are limiting, not conducive to community-building, and designed to bring out the worst in people by tempting them to make quick money behind the veil of anonymity.

Bouldercleave

Dracane wrote: »

It's an MMO and roleplay is a big part of it. Thieves exist in this world and a very good thief will attempt to get access to such a guild and gain the trust of the members and take the chance to abuse it.

In my opinion, nobody should get banned for this. Every mercenary tells you, that you shouldn't trust anyone.
I celebrate thieves who have the guts to do this. And I know, that the divines will judge over them, sooner or later.
And I know, that the divines will acknowledge OPs warm heart, sooner or later.

This has NOTHING to do with roleplay. An RPer would gut the bank as part of his RP, but INSTANTLY return it after the ruse was played out.

You can't bring in RP as ANY justification for this kind of *** move. Please don't drag the RP community down by even alluding that an RPer would do this.

Kildayen

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

Sad part is I can read his name if I enlarge those images, so you will get in trouble for that, and ZOS will do absolutely nothing for you.

I thought blurred them all out completely. I see the part you were talking about and I just fixed the problem. Nobody can see his name, but everyone should have the right to know who he is. Too bad I can get into trouble here for trying to protect everyone.

Kildayen

Pandorii wrote: »

Wow. Why is everyone being so unsupportive of the OP? Unbelievable! By showing me that evidence, I am 100 percent on your side, OP, that guy is a piece of scum, and it is important that the community know about it if it's not possible to take disciplinary action.

Now I'm going to go on a tangent... for those of you who are making the argument that it's the OP's fault for not having some absurdly complicated mechanism for extracting items in the guild bank, what are you thinking?

First, if you create a system where guild members must request items from guild leaders, you're: a.) alienating the quiet more shy gamers who would be embarrassed to ask (don't anybody dare insult introversion as a second-rate personality type, because I'll rip your head off. =^o^= like more than half of us who play games are I's.), b.) it puts unnecessary pressure on guild leaders, creating what I call 'guild leader fatigue,' making people not want to take on the extra responsibility to run guilds. If I wanted to volunteer to help run a guild, I would not want to wake up every morning to log into the game and have 12 requests from randos asking me to take items out for them. Plus, what do you do if there aren't any guild leaders on when you need the items? It's not efficient. It's not practical, and it's not fun. Second, how will the guild members know what is in the guild bank? Will they have to toggle through pages and pages of deposit history while cross-checking it with the withdrawn history to make sure it hasn't been taken out? Yea... nope. I'm not going to do that.

Lastly, guilds are supposed to create COMMUNITY. If I have to choose among three different guilds, one doesn't have a guild bank, one has a guild bank locked behind guild leaders, and the other has an open guild, I'm probably going to feel most welcome and most comfortable in the open one.

How unrealistic is it for you all to empathize with the OP? It's happened to us all, if you've played a few months and been part of guilds. Look at all the supportive people who are saying, 'yea that stinks. it's happened to me. ZOS should implement some guild bank access features.' Instead you JUDGE the OP and try to come up with these lame excuses as to why he is at fault?

Umm...no. It's not the OPs fault that the guild bank access features are limiting, not conducive to community-building, and designed to bring out the worst in people by tempting them to make quick money behind the veil of anonymity.

Thank you so much for your awesome reply.

The fact of the matter is that the thief openly admitted to doing what he did. We are not assuming. He actually admitted it. This is where ZOS needs to step in. I don't care who the person is in the guild or what rank they are. Any officer or whatever can clear the bank out if they want to. That is a chance you take by giving anyone access, even if they are well trusted. This circumstance has the proof that it was done for dishonest reasons. If they openly admit that they stole for their gain, they lost every right that protects them in the TOS.