What is People's Issue With VMA Tokens?

Ch4mpTW

I don't understand the issue with tokens. I don't get it. Why? Outside of selfishness, what is the logic behind not wanting a token system in a grueling place like VMA? Because selfishness is the only form of logic I can see explaining an issue with a token system.

People say all the time, "Oh, ESO is too casual friendly. They're making everything too easy nowadays. People should have to grind and suffer, just as I and others I know of had to suffer. Now that I have gotten what it is that I needed, I'm done with my grind in VMA. And to hell with anyone else who has not gotten what it is that thet seek." That is selfish. Why? Why would you want you fellow gamer to have to endure grinding in a place like VMA, with no light at the end of the tunnel. Why? That's sick and that's wrong.

Coming from someone who has beaten VMA numerous times, and has best-in-slot gear for stamina-based builds (when I want destruction staves)? I'd love for there to be a token system implemented. I don't want to see people struggle. I don't want people to have to spend months in something as unforgiving as VMA. As is only a small population of people within the ESO community can beat the Maelstrom Arena on veteran difficulty. And an even smaller percentage have beaten it, and gotten what it is that they're looking for precisely. Why make these people's lives more difficult than it has to be? Why? Did these people not complete VMA? Did some of them not complete it tons of times, and farm it for months? Where as you who have an issue with a token system have gotten your sharpened weapons pre-DB? What makes your time so much more special than another person? Even more than that, why would you want your fellow gamer to have to endure something as intense and stressful as Maelstrom? You guys tell me, who have an issue with it. I'd love to know.

Oh and as a side note, keep your off-topic and sneak-dissing to yourself about how I'm just trying to add fuel to the fire or "stir the pot". That crap is just that. Crap. And it is deconstructive and rude. Instead of hating on me, and trying to bust my chops for being so outspoken about things I'm passionate about? Maybe you should look into things that excites you, or makes you want to be so outspoken about them. Rather than looking to bait and flame someone who plays the same game as you, and on a free, official, forum, of this same game. =\

Pepper8Jack

For the record, I'm with you on the token system, though I'd rather have the ability to reroll traits implemented first.

That said, the only argument I've seen people make against the token system was made under the assumption that it would make the grind either just as tedious as it is currently or worse.

I.e. in implementing the token system ZOS would remove the weapon drops from the final chest and replace it with a reward of 1 token. A sharpened inferno staff would cost 150 tokens.

I've never understood this position, because there's so many assumptions there, but that's what I've seen. Apparently something similar to this happened in WOW so people are still gun shy about tokens.

Ch4mpTW

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

For the record, I'm with you on the token system, though I'd rather have the ability to reroll traits implemented first.

That said, the only argument I've seen people make against the token system was made under the assumption that it would make the grind either just as tedious as it is currently or worse.

I.e. in implementing the token system ZOS would remove the weapon drops from the final chest and replace it with a reward of 1 token. A sharpened inferno staff would cost 150 tokens.

I've never understood this position, because there's so many assumptions there, but that's what I've seen. Apparently something similar to this happened in WOW so people are still gun shy about tokens.

Mmm... I see... I hope a specific situation like that wouldn't occur, but I suppose it could validate some people's issues with a token system. I mean, if they did implement a token system — I wouldn't want for them to remove the weapon drop in the last chest. But, simply just include a token with it. You know? Like as an addition.

Also, your idea of being able to re-roll things sounds amazing! Diablo 3:RoS has this option, where you can basically spend materials to re-roll certain parts of your desired item to get the stats you want. Basically gambling. Like say for example you wanted to roll 10% damage, and remove the unwanted 7% attack speed. You could roll the attack speed off, and keep rolling until you get the 10% damage. Or until you're satisfied I suppose.

mobicera

It is really quite simple, and the first comment is the most accurate, selfishness. I had to grind rng to get what I wanted ergo so should you, if you are given something in 10 to 15 runs that invalidates my 100 runs or 200h of wasting my time in some bug ridden often frustrating content. Misery loves company you know... I am also aware some people actually enjoy vmsa immensely however they also tend to be the ones in favor of a token system. Some tend to think without the pointless boring grind(biased I loath grinding, ie. Repeating something I find boring over and over and over again...) There would be no longevity to the game, but really grinding against rng may destroy longevity for some. To be honest the lack of a token system the 40h+ learning curve of vmsa combined with foolish rng on weapons with pointless unwanted traits and rng on some mechanics themselves along with the lack of any comparable weapons basically drove me away from this game. Over the past few months I find I log in move 1 meter remember the frustration of rng and log out.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

To me there should be token systems in several different aspects of the game, not just vma. Maybe once update 12 hits rng won't be as bad... Yeah I know.

Eleusian

Tokens are good if it's a reasonable amount . They know what the desired traits are they need to fix the watered down loot table.

Riga_Mortis

Just make everything BOE, at least we can make some gold out of the grind.

driosketch

I guess it depends on the token system, but I'm not against the concept of tokens in general. (Not really familiar with how they work.)

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

I.e. in implementing the token system ZOS would remove the weapon drops from the final chest and replace it with a reward of 1 token. A sharpened inferno staff would cost 150 tokens.

Yeah, if that was the implementation, I too would rather take my chances with RNG.

SublimeSparo

I have now completed it god knows how many times, every class combo except magplar. I loathe the place, and despite well over 100 runs, probably a lot more, including multiple leaderboards, I have never gotten a Sharpened weapon from the chest, and only 1 from the weekly rewards- a resto, the only one you don’t want.
Whereas my friend pretty much always pulls Sharpened weapons out of the chest, about every other time on average.
RNG is dumb, broken, unwanted, unwarranted, unfair, boring, unrewarding.

Ch4mpTW

SublimeSparo wrote: »

I have now completed it god knows how many times, every class combo except magplar. I loathe the place, and despite well over 100 runs, probably a lot more, including multiple leaderboards, I have never gotten a Sharpened weapon from the chest, and only 1 from the weekly rewards- a resto, the only one you don’t want.
Whereas my friend pretty much always pulls Sharpened weapons out of the chest, about every other time on average.
RNG is dumb, broken, unwanted, unwarranted, unfair, boring, unrewarding.

I know your struggle of RNG in VMA, comrade. Trust me. Do a check on some of the threads I have made both recently and in the past. I know your struggle all too well. It wasn't until my 90-something run that I got my first staff (as in of all time the possible staves) which was a sharpened restoration staff. And since, I've only gotten restoration staves and 1 destruction staff. A nirnhoned inferno staff (I made a thread about this particular drop out of excitement). Once I get 1 more destruction staff, I'm done with VMA. It can be a charged ice staff. I'd settle. Honest to goodness, I would settle.

DRXHarbinger

@Ch4mpTW this is why...because you all must suffer as much as me. Put in 7 months...20 runs a week and them after that you may have your token system. That's how long long it took me to get a sharp destro. No one else should have it sooner for just farming tokens.

Rohamad_Ali

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

@Ch4mpTW this is why...because you all must suffer as much as me. Put in 7 months...20 runs a week and them after that you may have your token system. That's how long long it took me to get a sharp destro. No one else should have it sooner for just farming tokens.

The scars are deep . The pain is real .

PurifedBladez

The people against token system already have their vma weapons and they don't want us to be as cool.

Acrolas

Because the issue isn't with the drop itself, it's with the bind on pickup.

But taking away BOP would force ZOS to produce new content faster, which would then flood the server with dev tears because their safe space has been violated.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Riga_Mortis

If VMA ever got a token system, which I dont think will or should ever happen, then a token system would be requested for all activities down the line.
I dont have my sharpened weapons yet either and am still against tokens for the above reason. Just my 2 cents.

PurifedBladez

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

@Ch4mpTW this is why...because you all must suffer as much as me. Put in 7 months...20 runs a week and them after that you may have your token system. That's how long long it took me to get a sharp destro. No one else should have it sooner for just farming tokens.

No. Because in 7 months doing 20 runs a week you could end up never getting that sharp inferno. So go be special somewhere else.

DRXHarbinger

Dazza1968 wrote: »

If VMA ever got a token system, which I dont think will or should ever happen, then a token system would be requested for all activities down the line.
I dont have my sharpened weapons yet either and am still against tokens for the above reason. Just my 2 cents.

Not to mention zos would owe me hundreds of tokens. May as well give me the Dev tool in fact so I can gift me everything I want.

PurifedBladez

Dazza1968 wrote: »

If VMA ever got a token system, which I dont think will or should ever happen, then a token system would be requested for all activities down the line.
I dont have my sharpened weapons yet either and am still against tokens for the above reason. Just my 2 cents.

Oh yeah that's right.. what are the undaunted dailies again? Pretty much a token system? Oh ok..

Riga_Mortis

PurifedBladez wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

If VMA ever got a token system, which I dont think will or should ever happen, then a token system would be requested for all activities down the line.
I dont have my sharpened weapons yet either and am still against tokens for the above reason. Just my 2 cents.

Oh yeah that's right.. what are the undaunted dailies again? Pretty much a token system? Oh ok..

Undaunted dailies reward a key for a random item, in a random weight with a random trait lol.

Stoopid_Nwah

I still am all for being able to get 1 token/vma run/x amount of gold/x amount of tel-var/x amount of AP and having 25 tokens act as a trait change for an already owned Maelstrom weapon. Then 50 could buy a specific weapon from a box with a random trait so if you're lucky you'll get your sharpened destro, if not you'll need another 25 tokens to change the trait.

This way we wouldn't all lose our minds running maelstrom back to back. Instead we could PVP and earn tokens that way with AP and tel-var. Or we could earn gold from PVE trials/dungeons/farming. Basically we could get our BIS weapons while still having fun in the game and doing what we actually want to do and enjoy doing.

PurifedBladez

Dazza1968 wrote: »

PurifedBladez wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

If VMA ever got a token system, which I dont think will or should ever happen, then a token system would be requested for all activities down the line.
I dont have my sharpened weapons yet either and am still against tokens for the above reason. Just my 2 cents.

Oh yeah that's right.. what are the undaunted dailies again? Pretty much a token system? Oh ok..

Undaunted dailies reward a key for a random item, in a random weight with a random trait lol.

Still.. pretty much a token system. Chance to get secondary loot after the fact. I'd take something similar for vma.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

They should just have the weekend vendor sell the weapons. Problem solved. Well at least for me it would be solved because I will never beat vMA and I have accepted that. I mean the game was advertised as "Play the way you want to play" and the way I want to play is to have everything handed to me so I never get better by doing the actual content to obtain the gear. Id rather be a scrub with good gear than a good player with no gear.

nine9six

I'm cool with Tokens. But then they'd make it 100+ for an item and I'd rather do something else. Solo Content to get a Weapon for an MMO isn't something I'm interested in.

mb10

Yawn at the Maelstrom threads...

Almost a year since it came out, why is there all this noise about it now??

Stoopid_Nwah

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

They should just have the weekend vendor sell the weapons. Problem solved. Well at least for me it would be solved because I will never beat vMA and I have accepted that. I mean the game was advertised as "Play the way you want to play" and the way I want to play is to have everything handed to me so I never get better by doing the actual content to obtain the gear. Id rather be a scrub with good gear than a good player with no gear.

I hope this is sarcasm.

Vaoh

I've invested the time. The least I deserve are my Daggers/Axes. I am the absolute perfect example of a victim to our current system.

*** Implement the token system!

Vaoh

Not to mention that you used to only get Maelstrom weapons in BiS traits, so the players who were strong early got their loot ASAP while so many others want them but have horrendously diluted loot tables to sort through -_-

Sardath

Firstly, I'll start by saying I don't like the current way VMA is handled. With that out of the way, both RNG and tokens can be done well or badly.

Tokens have the issue of trivializing rewards. A GOOD rng(not this one) feels both exciting and rewarding. The next issue is the grind - lets put a specific weapon at 50 tokens(one per run). For a player who had 100+ runs it will seem like a walk in the park, but for new players it will seem like it's very arbitrary and time consuming, most people will dread it - especially since there is no reward excitment, until those 50 runs are through.

Imo this just highlights the underlining issue: there are more useless traits than useful ones. If it weren't so, rng wouldn't be an issue. They should rebalance traits for PvE and PvP separately - everything should be useful. Until then, they should implement a trait reroll system.

Coming from Gw2 that used tokens for most content, I know how boring and unrewarding it can be.

Ch4mpTW

Vaoh wrote: »

I've invested the time. The least I deserve are my Daggers/Axes. I am the absolute perfect example of a victim to our current system.

*** Implement the token system!

Lol.

I deserve my destro staves too, bruh. I've been grinding od.

AtmaDarkwolf

why do you keep linking that same pic whenever any thread is talking about maelstrom? starting to think your trying to troll/brag because its almost guaranteed if a thread has maelstrom in it, you link your 'perfect' drops. LOL

Ch4mpTW

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

why do you keep linking that same pic whenever any thread is talking about maelstrom? starting to think your trying to troll/brag because its almost guaranteed if a thread has maelstrom in it, you link your 'perfect' drops. LOL

I linked it twice, and I linked it here as a joke/tease to Vaoh. It's an inside joke from PSN.