Heavy armor should be for tanks not dd...

BruhItsOver9000

Seriously, what's the point of wearing 5 medium armor or light if you could just wear 5 heavy and get the same stats + more survivablity.
Heavy armor should only be for tanks, not for players who want to deal damage, heavy armor has so much pros but not that much cons

If you choose to wear 5 heavy, it should be like this


Pros
1. Gain more survivablity
2. Gain more max stam and max mag
3. Constitution passive
4. reduce damage taken

Cons
1. Lose alot of weapon damage and spell damage
2. Lose stam recovery
3. Cannot sneak
4. Light and heavy attacks take longer to cast

Currently it's like this

Pros
1. Gain more survivablity
2. Constitution passive
3. Better healing
4. Reduced damage taken

Cons
1. Lose a tiny bit of weapon damage and spell damage
2. Lose a tiny bit of stam recovery

Also heavy armor has the best sets like black rose, reactive, fasalla's guile, dreugh king and ravager etc

BurritoESO

The black rose stam population will soon be here to try and defend their op set

BruhItsOver9000

BurritoESO wrote: »

The black rose stam population will soon be here to try and defend their op set

I'm sure most of the pvp community hate heavy armor builds, also there're more heavy armor sets that are worse than black rose, fasalla's guile is one of them.

OdinForge

Honestly Black Rose is just ridiculous, something needs to change regarding heavy armor passives or a set like Black Rose. I've been quiet about it before, but it's just silly now. Heavy armor is outclassing medium armor by a huge margin, you honestly can't compete in medium armor, not in a reasonable way at least.

AverageJo3Gam3r

As a lifelong heavy armor user...you can take away my damage when you give up your penetration. As long as I can still get hit with 11k incap strikes while using 5-1-1 heavy with 7 pieces impen, I'll continue to maintain that heavy armor grants no more tankiness. I can swap out heavy armor with medium well fitted and be much more tanky by rolling for days.

Erock25

1vX and gankers here again to complain about targets wearing heavy armor. I'm shocked.

Unsent.Soul

Had a good chuckle at

BruhItsOver9000 wrote: »

If you choose to wear 5 heavy, it should look like this

Cons
1. Lose alot of weapon damage and spell damage
2. Lose stam recovery
3. Cannot sneak
4. Light and heavy attacks take longer to cast

scorpiodog

BruhItsOver9000 wrote: »

If you choose to wear 5 heavy, it should look like this

Cons
1. Lose alot of weapon damage and spell damage
2. Lose stam recovery
3. Cannot sneak
4. Light and heavy attacks take longer to cast

You should be able to sneak, run and roll with heavy armor, but at a much heavier cost.
There is no way a clankety-clank-clank heavy armor set is as stealthy as light or medium armor, or that you can sprint just as fast and as long in 7 heavy as completely naked.

Minno

As a lover of heavy armor, I'd say the strength of the line is being able to reach armor cap and achieve a dmg mitigation of 50%.

As a Templar, the healing received + the extra health allow me to synergize with a few skills/passives not to mention give me back resources in 2 additional ways and since I'm technically a pincushion, the Constitution passive can help me find the stamina I need to break free in tough situations.

That said, in a Magicka class and don't feel I have the dmg available that stam users can get using heavy armor.

With that said, heavy armor shouldn't provide extra dmg (aside from wraith). It should offer pve and pvp options to how they want to protect and support but both should not overshadow the other in terms of dmg; provide sets that give equal extra dmg.

The sets themselves should offer bonuses that alter the play experience for both group and solo play.

The_Duke

For all the hate people put out towards black rose there are worse sets to use that are op in my opinion. For example Ive run heavy only since console release and I find 5 piece alchemist much more potent than black rose in small scale PVP. 2 k health 129 weapon/magicka damage and a proc of 600+ for 15 seconds. As a heavy user I can be more offensive due to me being at 25 000 resistances. I can pop an imovable pot and face tank anyone on my stam nightblade Gank Tank.

With my gear set up I get to 3900 weapon damage, 34000 stam, 30 000hp, 2000k crit resist, 25000 spell/damage resist, 1800 stam regen. You cant get those numbers with black rose and if played right 3900 weapon damage with wreck people in the 15 second alchemist proc.

KenaPKK

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

As a lifelong heavy armor user...you can take away my damage when you give up your penetration. As long as I can still get hit with 11k incap strikes while using 5-1-1 heavy with 7 pieces impen, I'll continue to maintain that heavy armor grants no more tankiness. I can swap out heavy armor with medium well fitted and be much more tanky by rolling for days.

That's a problem with stamina damage scaling, not penetration.

Light armor magicka users get more penetration than stam users, but when was the last time you were hit with an 11k Soul Harvest?

Xsorus

BruhItsOver9000 wrote: »

Seriously, what's the point of wearing 5 medium armor or light if you could just wear 5 heavy and get the same stats + more survivablity.
Heavy armor should only be for tanks, not for players who want to deal damage, heavy armor has so much pros but not that much cons

If you choose to wear 5 heavy, it should be like this


Pros
1. Gain more survivablity
2. Gain more max stam and max mag
3. Constitution passive
4. reduce damage taken

Cons
1. Lose alot of weapon damage and spell damage
2. Lose stam recovery
3. Cannot sneak
4. Light and heavy attacks take longer to cast

Currently it's like this

Pros
1. Gain more survivablity
2. Constitution passive
3. Better healing
4. Reduced damage taken

Cons
1. Lose a tiny bit of weapon damage and spell damage
2. Lose a tiny bit of stam recovery

Also heavy armor has the best sets like black rose, reactive, fasalla's guile, dreugh king and ravager etc

Please explain why you think Heavy Armor; which naturally is build around sustaining and being hard to kill..shouldn't have Sustain?

The very fact the best burst setup (Medium Armor) was also master of sustain was silly.

DannyLV702

Heavy armor does need to be way more tanky and deal less damage. The synergy between Blackrose and shield and sword is ridiculously strong. When I'm playing my stamblade, I honestly have zero issues with heavy armor users, but when I'm on my heavy armor DK, I feel sorry for the average person that runs into me. Heavy armor without the use of shield and sword is still very squishy though.

SleepyTroll

Wrath should never have been added to heavy armor, it's almost I think just a little less then the medium passive.
BUT set wise other then black rose it doesn't matter because most every set can be put in every slot, other then crafted.

leepalmer95

Heavy give better sustain by far than both medium and light; wearing black rose will give you the equivalant of 650 magicka AND stamina regen per second, the fact it gives both is quite important it's what allows classes like stamina sorc to literally ignore all sustain since heavy and dark deal was buffed.

It of course gives bigger survivability as it should.

You don't lose damage, wraith gives the same damage as the medium armour passive does. It's not too much of a dps lose with the light penetration.

You gain more healing as well, this is why some builds are just nearly impossible to kill, heavy stam dk gets like 60% increased healing easy, heavy magplar uses 1 breath of life and heals for like 15k +

So why wouldn't people use it? What downside has heavy got? I don't see one. It used to be sustain and damage, but not anymore it seems.

Honestly i laugh when people try to defend it, i threw it on the other day and the difference is insane, hitting someone with a 10k dizzying while they hit me with a 3k one ...

It's so strong, hence why everyone uses it, don't because of peoples burst because it's OP, there is a reason it's called the meta.

Xsorus

Black rose gives around 450ish per second if in full heavy; less if not

Full heavy in general is 300ish

Also the fact that you think you can go from 10k dizzying swings to 3k dizzying swings based on putting on full heavy tells me you don't understand what you're talking about....

leepalmer95

Xsorus wrote: »

Black rose gives around 450ish per second if in full heavy; less if not

Full heavy in general is 300ish

Also the fact that you think you can go from 10k dizzying swings to 3k dizzying swings based on putting on full heavy tells me you don't understand what you're talking about....

It was the fact i was able to hit 10k dizzying when using heavy, it's mean't to be tanky armour yet the dps i can do in it is stupid.

Please read.

I was including the base constitution which is like 950 or something, you know considering we're talking about heavy in general.

Black rose = 1300 every 4s so it's 650 per 2 seconds which is the same as 650 stam/mag regen.

altemriel

BruhItsOver9000 wrote: »

Seriously, what's the point of wearing 5 medium armor or light if you could just wear 5 heavy and get the same stats + more survivablity.
Heavy armor should only be for tanks, not for players who want to deal damage, heavy armor has so much pros but not that much cons

If you choose to wear 5 heavy, it should be like this


Pros
1. Gain more survivablity
2. Gain more max stam and max mag
3. Constitution passive
4. reduce damage taken

Cons
1. Lose alot of weapon damage and spell damage
2. Lose stam recovery
3. Cannot sneak
4. Light and heavy attacks take longer to cast

Currently it's like this

Pros
1. Gain more survivablity
2. Constitution passive
3. Better healing
4. Reduced damage taken

Cons
1. Lose a tiny bit of weapon damage and spell damage
2. Lose a tiny bit of stam recovery

Also heavy armor has the best sets like black rose, reactive, fasalla's guile, dreugh king and ravager etc

"can not sneak" - wow, that would pretty much make many tanks upset! but logically - yes - good point - heavy armor is HEAVY armor , there is no way that someone in a heavy armor can sneak or pass by silently without being noticed by everyone !! If nothing else, then only the steps would make some really strong clang! clang!! tchung! tchung! sounds

some medieval heavy armor pics

Xsorus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Black rose gives around 450ish per second if in full heavy; less if not

Full heavy in general is 300ish

Also the fact that you think you can go from 10k dizzying swings to 3k dizzying swings based on putting on full heavy tells me you don't understand what you're talking about....

It was the fact i was able to hit 10k dizzying when using heavy, it's mean't to be tanky armour yet the dps i can do in it is stupid.

Please read.

I was including the base constitution which is like 950 or something, you know considering we're talking about heavy in general.

Black rose = 1300 every 4s so it's 650 per 2 seconds which is the same as 650 stam/mag regen.

Heavy armor can't do the same dps as medium armor; if it could every stamina user would be using it over medium armor in pve. You also stated that you put black rose on and was hitting for 10k while being hit 3k with the same ability. This is implying by just putting on heavy armor you suddenly took a massive amount of less damage... You are now pretending that's not what you meant when it's clearly what you meant.... That implies you don't understand how or why heavy armor is strong in pvp and it has very little to do with actual mitigation.

Now onto you talking about black rose regen; you tell me to please read but I suggest you go back and read your post again... You said 650 per second not 650 per 2 seconds. There is a difference between the two.

and it's not the same as 650 regen either because the requirement is on being hit. Meaning if you dodge or you're not being hit you don't regen

Now that doesn't mean it's not a powerful passive; it's there to help heavy armor sustain in combat because things like medium and light armor had massive regen bonus plus massive cost reduction bonus. The cost reduction alone will make up far more over time then constitution will on either magicka or stamina. In medium armor case it also gets dodge cost reduction which cuts down on its stamina cost over time in comparsion to heavy armor.

So heavy armor does give a pretty good return on regen if you're being hit but it will not outdo medium nor light armor in magicka or stamina in the long run.

leepalmer95

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Black rose gives around 450ish per second if in full heavy; less if not

Full heavy in general is 300ish

Also the fact that you think you can go from 10k dizzying swings to 3k dizzying swings based on putting on full heavy tells me you don't understand what you're talking about....

It was the fact i was able to hit 10k dizzying when using heavy, it's mean't to be tanky armour yet the dps i can do in it is stupid.

Please read.

I was including the base constitution which is like 950 or something, you know considering we're talking about heavy in general.

Black rose = 1300 every 4s so it's 650 per 2 seconds which is the same as 650 stam/mag regen.

Heavy armor can't do the same dps as medium armor; if it could every stamina user would be using it over medium armor in pve. You also stated that you put black rose on and was hitting for 10k while being hit 3k with the same ability. This is implying by just putting on heavy armor you suddenly took a massive amount of less damage... You are now pretending that's not what you meant when it's clearly what you meant.... That implies you don't understand how or why heavy armor is strong in pvp and it has very little to do with actual mitigation.

Now onto you talking about black rose regen; you tell me to please read but I suggest you go back and read your post again... You said 650 per second not 650 per 2 seconds. There is a difference between the two.

and it's not the same as 650 regen either because the requirement is on being hit. Meaning if you dodge or you're not being hit you don't regen

Now that doesn't mean it's not a powerful passive; it's there to help heavy armor sustain in combat because things like medium and light armor had massive regen bonus plus massive cost reduction bonus. The cost reduction alone will make up far more over time then constitution will on either magicka or stamina. In medium armor case it also gets dodge cost reduction which cuts down on its stamina cost over time in comparsion to heavy armor.

So heavy armor does give a pretty good return on regen if you're being hit but it will not outdo medium nor light armor in magicka or stamina in the long run.

No i implied that i was able be tanky while still hitting stupid numbers.

Pve and pvp aren't the same thing, lets just not even go there and start comparing them.

With light and medium you give up damage or max stats on gear for regen because you need it on them, no point having all this regen boost if you don't use it. With heavy you don't, usually replaced with damage or health.

Constitution gives sustain even when blocking and in the case of console even when bashing or dodging because you have to press block and lose the regen ticks. It also give both magicka and stamina and like i said most builds use the other stat.

Stam Dk's use magicka for igneous and the 2k per cast off it, stam sorc use it for dark deal and the 6k per casr off that, nb's use it to cloak/fear/siphoning to the point where they will never run out of magicka when it's needed, they used to have to run drinks for this affect, not anymore. Stamplar use it for lots of rituals.

Every mag build gains stamina, which is why it impossible run most of them out of it now days.

caeliusstarbreaker

Remeber when heavy armor was worthless?

Armitas

Blocking is what makes HA survivable, most of the armor is penetrated by most builds. If there needs to be a trade off between survival and damage let it start with medium armors dodge roll.

Erock25

People have no idea how much actual mitigation percentage you gain while wearing 5H compared to 5M. It's not much.

People also need to stop converting constitution passive to straight regen. Unless you're in large group vs group pvp, it's unlikely you're hit exactly the moment the cooldown is up.

The_Duke

Erock25 wrote: »

People have no idea how much actual mitigation percentage you gain while wearing 5H compared to 5M. It's not much.

People also need to stop converting constitution passive to straight regen. Unless you're in large group vs group pvp, it's unlikely you're hit exactly the moment the cooldown is up.

Well said. Exactly. 5 heavy 2 medium is only 4% more damage mitigation than 5 medium 2 heavy. You sacrifice 12% weapon damage in the process.

And everyone please don't give me that BS about wrath being comparable to 12%. Mediums 12% is always active. Wrath is a buff over 6 seconds which to meet its full potential means you take alot of hits in the process. 4% mit doesn't cut it.

frozywozy

Heavy armor should give more physical damage, physical resistances, health and stamina sustain. Medium armor should give more physical damage, stamina, mobility and stamina sustain. Light armor should give more spell damage, spell resistances, spell shields (I'm not a fan of the new harness) and magicka sustain.

Magicka DKs should get a real burst heal.

Hi balance.

juhasman

Make all armor skills require to wear 5 piece of armor from their skill line. No more shuffle for heavy armor users no more heavy armor users.

leepalmer95

The_Duke wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

People have no idea how much actual mitigation percentage you gain while wearing 5H compared to 5M. It's not much.

People also need to stop converting constitution passive to straight regen. Unless you're in large group vs group pvp, it's unlikely you're hit exactly the moment the cooldown is up.

Well said. Exactly. 5 heavy 2 medium is only 4% more damage mitigation than 5 medium 2 heavy. You sacrifice 12% weapon damage in the process.

And everyone please don't give me that BS about wrath being comparable to 12%. Mediums 12% is always active. Wrath is a buff over 6 seconds which to meet its full potential means you take alot of hits in the process. 4% mit doesn't cut it.

How exactly is it only 4%.

Heavy armour has 25% more than medium and thats not including the heavy passive.

The_Duke

leepalmer95 wrote: »

The_Duke wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

People have no idea how much actual mitigation percentage you gain while wearing 5H compared to 5M. It's not much.

People also need to stop converting constitution passive to straight regen. Unless you're in large group vs group pvp, it's unlikely you're hit exactly the moment the cooldown is up.

Well said. Exactly. 5 heavy 2 medium is only 4% more damage mitigation than 5 medium 2 heavy. You sacrifice 12% weapon damage in the process.

And everyone please don't give me that BS about wrath being comparable to 12%. Mediums 12% is always active. Wrath is a buff over 6 seconds which to meet its full potential means you take alot of hits in the process. 4% mit doesn't cut it.

How exactly is it only 4%.

Heavy armour has 25% more than medium and thats not including the heavy passive.

Here is the calculation used to derive mitigation.

Take your spell or physical resistance and devide it by 650. 650 is = to 1% mitigation.

My purple v16 gear 5 medium and 2 heavy is 12781 resist. That equals 19.66 mitigation.

My purple vet 16 heavy armor 5 heavy 2 medium (same set all I did was switch the gloves feet and head to medium) is 15362. Which equals 23.63 mitigation.

23.63-19.66=3.97 difference in mitigation.

Therefor if all armors are equal sets you only gain 3.97 extra damage mitigation from heavy armor using 5H and 2M vs. 5M and 2H.

Its really basic math silly.

Regards,
The Duke

leepalmer95

The_Duke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

The_Duke wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

People have no idea how much actual mitigation percentage you gain while wearing 5H compared to 5M. It's not much.

People also need to stop converting constitution passive to straight regen. Unless you're in large group vs group pvp, it's unlikely you're hit exactly the moment the cooldown is up.

Well said. Exactly. 5 heavy 2 medium is only 4% more damage mitigation than 5 medium 2 heavy. You sacrifice 12% weapon damage in the process.

And everyone please don't give me that BS about wrath being comparable to 12%. Mediums 12% is always active. Wrath is a buff over 6 seconds which to meet its full potential means you take alot of hits in the process. 4% mit doesn't cut it.

How exactly is it only 4%.

Heavy armour has 25% more than medium and thats not including the heavy passive.

Here is the calculation used to derive mitigation.

Take your spell or physical resistance and devide it by 650. 650 is = to 1% mitigation.

My purple v16 gear 5 medium and 2 heavy is 12781 resist. That equals 19.66 mitigation.

My purple vet 16 heavy armor 5 heavy 2 medium (same set all I did was switch the gloves feet and head to medium) is 15362. Which equals 23.63 mitigation.

23.63-19.66=3.97 difference in mitigation.

Therefor if all armors are equal sets you only gain 3.97 extra damage mitigation from heavy armor using 5H and 2M vs. 5M and 2H.

Its really basic math silly.

Regards,
The Duke

Well no? Your counting the extra 2 pieces of medium or heavy in your calculations and you really shouldn't be. Because the heavy ones add mitigation passive

Try comparing 5 medium to 5 heavy.

Also people wear heavy for the survivability and believe it or not just armour rating isn't survivability. So even though we should count the extra hp and the increased healing we won't.

5x Heavy pieces (not helm + shoulder) = 10047 + 1810 (passive) = 11857

5x Medium = 7553

Using the 650 = 1% then:

5x Heavy = 18.2%
5x Medium = 11.6

18.2 - 11.6 = 6.6% mitigation.

Not including the extra hp/healing.

If your gonna make a snarky point atleast get the maths right.

Lokey0024

Xsorus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Black rose gives around 450ish per second if in full heavy; less if not

Full heavy in general is 300ish

Also the fact that you think you can go from 10k dizzying swings to 3k dizzying swings based on putting on full heavy tells me you don't understand what you're talking about....

It was the fact i was able to hit 10k dizzying when using heavy, it's mean't to be tanky armour yet the dps i can do in it is stupid.

Please read.

I was including the base constitution which is like 950 or something, you know considering we're talking about heavy in general.

Black rose = 1300 every 4s so it's 650 per 2 seconds which is the same as 650 stam/mag regen.

Heavy armor can't do the same dps as medium armor; if it could every stamina user would be using it over medium armor in pve. You also stated that you put black rose on and was hitting for 10k while being hit 3k with the same ability. This is implying by just putting on heavy armor you suddenly took a massive amount of less damage... You are now pretending that's not what you meant when it's clearly what you meant.... That implies you don't understand how or why heavy armor is strong in pvp and it has very little to do with actual mitigation.

Now onto you talking about black rose regen; you tell me to please read but I suggest you go back and read your post again... You said 650 per second not 650 per 2 seconds. There is a difference between the two.

and it's not the same as 650 regen either because the requirement is on being hit. Meaning if you dodge or you're not being hit you don't regen

Now that doesn't mean it's not a powerful passive; it's there to help heavy armor sustain in combat because things like medium and light armor had massive regen bonus plus massive cost reduction bonus. The cost reduction alone will make up far more over time then constitution will on either magicka or stamina. In medium armor case it also gets dodge cost reduction which cuts down on its stamina cost over time in comparsion to heavy armor.

So heavy armor does give a pretty good return on regen if you're being hit but it will not outdo medium nor light armor in magicka or stamina in the long run.

Basically there is a tradeoff going on. You dont have near the amount of sustain wearing heavy, even with black rose, and if you're playing a nuke build vs a heavy armor SnB set up with all WD running max stat food yea, might be a problem. They can midigate your burst by blocking.

WD is just one benefit of medium armor. The reduced cost, the regen, and the speed all need to be utilized, not just the modifier to max WD. Smart players know this, dumb ones keep trying the same thing over and over again and fail. I run shieldbreaker5pc leki 3pc agi 3 pc and didnt have one problem dealing with a HA user on my NB. Stam poison back bar and rooted them to force dodge rolling. That just made it easy. Was a bit more difficult with no stam poison but forcing them to burst and knowing when to D up, you know, skills and talent gameplay, made the difference in the fight.

The_Duke

leepalmer95 wrote: »

The_Duke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

The_Duke wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

People have no idea how much actual mitigation percentage you gain while wearing 5H compared to 5M. It's not much.

People also need to stop converting constitution passive to straight regen. Unless you're in large group vs group pvp, it's unlikely you're hit exactly the moment the cooldown is up.

Well said. Exactly. 5 heavy 2 medium is only 4% more damage mitigation than 5 medium 2 heavy. You sacrifice 12% weapon damage in the process.

And everyone please don't give me that BS about wrath being comparable to 12%. Mediums 12% is always active. Wrath is a buff over 6 seconds which to meet its full potential means you take alot of hits in the process. 4% mit doesn't cut it.

How exactly is it only 4%.

Heavy armour has 25% more than medium and thats not including the heavy passive.

Here is the calculation used to derive mitigation.

Take your spell or physical resistance and devide it by 650. 650 is = to 1% mitigation.

My purple v16 gear 5 medium and 2 heavy is 12781 resist. That equals 19.66 mitigation.

My purple vet 16 heavy armor 5 heavy 2 medium (same set all I did was switch the gloves feet and head to medium) is 15362. Which equals 23.63 mitigation.

23.63-19.66=3.97 difference in mitigation.

Therefor if all armors are equal sets you only gain 3.97 extra damage mitigation from heavy armor using 5H and 2M vs. 5M and 2H.

Its really basic math silly.

Regards,
The Duke

Well no? Your counting the extra 2 pieces of medium or heavy in your calculations and you really shouldn't be. Because the heavy ones add mitigation passive

Try comparing 5 medium to 5 heavy.

Also people wear heavy for the survivability and believe it or not just armour rating isn't survivability. So even though we should count the extra hp and the increased healing we won't.

5x Heavy pieces (not helm + shoulder) = 10047 + 1810 (passive) = 11857

5x Medium = 7553

Using the 650 = 1% then:

5x Heavy = 18.2%
5x Medium = 11.6

18.2 - 11.6 = 6.6% mitigation.

Not including the extra hp/healing.

If your gonna make a snarky point atleast get the maths right.

I was only looking at the flat rate with no passives. 2.6% meaning 6.6% extra due to passives still doesnt make up the 12% extra damage plus regen plus cost reduction plus roll and sprint bonus.

As for the tone of my comment I prefer tongue and cheek to "snarky"