The combination of extra resistance, health, and healing received makes a big difference in survival which it should. The problem, however, is that with a set like black rose in particular, heavy armor users can completely ignore recovery and stack max stamina upwards near 40k and still gain about 4k weapon damage. They suffer a critical hit chance loss, but the huge stamina pool and weapon damage means their non-critical hits are much bigger and when a build like that crits, it just hits like a truck. They don't need big recovery numbers because they can burst enemy's down before they run out of stamina and their heavy defense passives make them much harder to kill. Medium armor users can't afford such numbers (unless your a burst nightblade) because they need to worry about stamina recovery and other ways to boost their survival (like roll dodging which costs stamina). Heavy armor black rose just takes the guess work out of it now and allows lots of melee dps builds to focus entirely on dps. Anyone who hasn't seen this setup firsthand should try it out and compare it to a medium armor melee setup. (blackrose, agility, bloodspawn or velidreth, and maelstrom weapons) << Is pretty much what most of them are running
All heavy armor builds stack max stat. It plays into the strengths of heavy armor. You do know the difference between BR and Hundings in HA is 200~ recovery, 1k stam, and -150 weapon dmg, right. Not much difference.
All heavy armor builds stack max stat. It plays into the strengths of heavy armor. You do know the difference between BR and Hundings in HA is 200~ recovery, 1k stam, and -150 weapon dmg, right. Not much difference.
The recovery from br is definitely higher than 200. I see your point between the 2 individual sets but I'm talking about build comparisons as a whole. Medium armor builds would sacrifice a lot to achieve such high max stam and wep dmg to the point where they cant sustain in prolonged combat. Heavy armor br users can (forgot to mention their heavy attacks restore 50% more stamina). I like the concept of blackrose, however, it plays into an imbalance. Heavy armor builds should not be able to achieve higher dps than stam builds while benefiting from all the pros of heavy armor.[/quote]
Good thing Heavy Armor isn't able to achieve higher DPS then Medium armor
Seriously....you guys need to quit repeating ***
? Since when does heavy armour do more damage than medium armour builds? With penetration running rampant, the only heavy armour builds that are "tankier" are due to perma-block. The difference between 2 DPS builds that run 5 heavy and 5 medium are something along the lines of;
medium
4-5k weapon power (sometimes more) + 1000-2000 stam recovery + 15k resists
heavy
3-4k weapon power + 1000-ish stam recovery + constitution passive + 20k resists.
the 20k resists and 15k resists make jack-all difference when people are running 12k+ penetration...... When was the last time you got one shot by a 5 heavy armour wearing NB? If you say you HAVE gotten one shot by a 5 heavy NB, I say its time to stop wearing ur 5 piece PVE TBS full divines in cyro.
The meta is all about burst and black rose is meant to counter that meta. So it does its job well. Black rose builds arent unkillable. You just need to be running a sustain build too. I know, cos I have killed people wearing black rose. I have a magDK with 5 heavy seducers + silks that does just fine against the stam black rose pops club. And yes, my gank-blade stands close to no-chance against those black rose users cos he is a burst build and runs out of stam when fighting those builds.
leepalmer95 wrote: »? Since when does heavy armour do more damage than medium armour builds? With penetration running rampant, the only heavy armour builds that are "tankier" are due to perma-block. The difference between 2 DPS builds that run 5 heavy and 5 medium are something along the lines of;
medium
4-5k weapon power (sometimes more) + 1000-2000 stam recovery + 15k resists
heavy
3-4k weapon power + 1000-ish stam recovery + constitution passive + 20k resists.
the 20k resists and 15k resists make jack-all difference when people are running 12k+ penetration...... When was the last time you got one shot by a 5 heavy armour wearing NB? If you say you HAVE gotten one shot by a 5 heavy NB, I say its time to stop wearing ur 5 piece PVE TBS full divines in cyro.
The meta is all about burst and black rose is meant to counter that meta. So it does its job well. Black rose builds arent unkillable. You just need to be running a sustain build too. I know, cos I have killed people wearing black rose. I have a magDK with 5 heavy seducers + silks that does just fine against the stam black rose pops club. And yes, my gank-blade stands close to no-chance against those black rose users cos he is a burst build and runs out of stam when fighting those builds.
Heavy armour users usually have like 40k stamina with the 3-4k wpn dmg , medium users usually have 35k~ with 3-4k wpn , the only time they have higher than 4k is with proc's such as alchemist, but then they won't be able to sustain like a heavy armour user would.
BurritoESO wrote: »The black rose stam population will soon be here to try and defend their op set
leepalmer95 wrote: »? Since when does heavy armour do more damage than medium armour builds? With penetration running rampant, the only heavy armour builds that are "tankier" are due to perma-block. The difference between 2 DPS builds that run 5 heavy and 5 medium are something along the lines of;
medium
4-5k weapon power (sometimes more) + 1000-2000 stam recovery + 15k resists
heavy
3-4k weapon power + 1000-ish stam recovery + constitution passive + 20k resists.
the 20k resists and 15k resists make jack-all difference when people are running 12k+ penetration...... When was the last time you got one shot by a 5 heavy armour wearing NB? If you say you HAVE gotten one shot by a 5 heavy NB, I say its time to stop wearing ur 5 piece PVE TBS full divines in cyro.
The meta is all about burst and black rose is meant to counter that meta. So it does its job well. Black rose builds arent unkillable. You just need to be running a sustain build too. I know, cos I have killed people wearing black rose. I have a magDK with 5 heavy seducers + silks that does just fine against the stam black rose pops club. And yes, my gank-blade stands close to no-chance against those black rose users cos he is a burst build and runs out of stam when fighting those builds.
Heavy armour users usually have like 40k stamina with the 3-4k wpn dmg , medium users usually have 35k~ with 3-4k wpn , the only time they have higher than 4k is with proc's such as alchemist, but then they won't be able to sustain like a heavy armour user would.
? My stam nb runs with close to 4.1k weapon power unbuffed. With procs all up he is over 5k. My stam DK with 5 black rose + 3 agility + 2 engin is barely at 3.5k. With all buffs up such as wrath etc etc he would be at about 4k. Where are ur tiny numbers for medium armour coming from?
Not everyone rates their weapon damage with a stealth passive from Nightblades active.
I think if people tried SnB in pvp w/ medium armor they would get a better understanding of cumulative stacking of defensive abilities and the balance of it.
Then evasion and it morphs will need to be replaced by same way crappy ability as HA and LA have now.LycanNaryko wrote: »As already said:
The armor skills should require 5 Pieces of armor.
If i want to use shuffle than i have to use 5 Piece of medium (i would prefer 7 pieces to be honest).
Dodge rolling isnt comparable to heavy armor. One fear (no more dodge rolling) and your dead in medium armor - in heavy you can survive or the buffed soul ultimate from pts - no dodge rolling.
All armor skills should require 5 or more pices of the armor type to be slottable.
All passives should require 5 pieces too imo.
leepalmer95 wrote: »? Since when does heavy armour do more damage than medium armour builds? With penetration running rampant, the only heavy armour builds that are "tankier" are due to perma-block. The difference between 2 DPS builds that run 5 heavy and 5 medium are something along the lines of;
medium
4-5k weapon power (sometimes more) + 1000-2000 stam recovery + 15k resists
heavy
3-4k weapon power + 1000-ish stam recovery + constitution passive + 20k resists.
the 20k resists and 15k resists make jack-all difference when people are running 12k+ penetration...... When was the last time you got one shot by a 5 heavy armour wearing NB? If you say you HAVE gotten one shot by a 5 heavy NB, I say its time to stop wearing ur 5 piece PVE TBS full divines in cyro.
The meta is all about burst and black rose is meant to counter that meta. So it does its job well. Black rose builds arent unkillable. You just need to be running a sustain build too. I know, cos I have killed people wearing black rose. I have a magDK with 5 heavy seducers + silks that does just fine against the stam black rose pops club. And yes, my gank-blade stands close to no-chance against those black rose users cos he is a burst build and runs out of stam when fighting those builds.
Heavy armour users usually have like 40k stamina with the 3-4k wpn dmg , medium users usually have 35k~ with 3-4k wpn , the only time they have higher than 4k is with proc's such as alchemist, but then they won't be able to sustain like a heavy armour user would.
? My stam nb runs with close to 4.1k weapon power unbuffed. With procs all up he is over 5k. My stam DK with 5 black rose + 3 agility + 2 engin is barely at 3.5k. With all buffs up such as wrath etc etc he would be at about 4k. Where are ur tiny numbers for medium armour coming from?
leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »? Since when does heavy armour do more damage than medium armour builds? With penetration running rampant, the only heavy armour builds that are "tankier" are due to perma-block. The difference between 2 DPS builds that run 5 heavy and 5 medium are something along the lines of;
medium
4-5k weapon power (sometimes more) + 1000-2000 stam recovery + 15k resists
heavy
3-4k weapon power + 1000-ish stam recovery + constitution passive + 20k resists.
the 20k resists and 15k resists make jack-all difference when people are running 12k+ penetration...... When was the last time you got one shot by a 5 heavy armour wearing NB? If you say you HAVE gotten one shot by a 5 heavy NB, I say its time to stop wearing ur 5 piece PVE TBS full divines in cyro.
The meta is all about burst and black rose is meant to counter that meta. So it does its job well. Black rose builds arent unkillable. You just need to be running a sustain build too. I know, cos I have killed people wearing black rose. I have a magDK with 5 heavy seducers + silks that does just fine against the stam black rose pops club. And yes, my gank-blade stands close to no-chance against those black rose users cos he is a burst build and runs out of stam when fighting those builds.
Heavy armour users usually have like 40k stamina with the 3-4k wpn dmg , medium users usually have 35k~ with 3-4k wpn , the only time they have higher than 4k is with proc's such as alchemist, but then they won't be able to sustain like a heavy armour user would.
? My stam nb runs with close to 4.1k weapon power unbuffed. With procs all up he is over 5k. My stam DK with 5 black rose + 3 agility + 2 engin is barely at 3.5k. With all buffs up such as wrath etc etc he would be at about 4k. Where are ur tiny numbers for medium armour coming from?
Really? What is his max stamina and regen at? Your basically using a gank build or using proc sets. Or have like 26k stamina.
1vX and gankers here again to complain about targets wearing heavy armor. I'm shocked.
1vX and gankers here again to complain about targets wearing heavy armor. I'm shocked.
Tank builds in PvP make for poor gameplay. It's not fun. It turns fights into real drudgery. It's like football before the forward pass. People want fast action, exciting gameplay, not trolly tank builds and super defensive playstyles.
I'm sure people enjoy their buff and shield cycles while they passively tag everyone and get AP for doing nothing. It's a no-risk endeavor. The game shouldn't have crap like this.
1vX and gankers here again to complain about targets wearing heavy armor. I'm shocked.
Tank builds in PvP make for poor gameplay. It's not fun. It turns fights into real drudgery. It's like football before the forward pass. People want fast action, exciting gameplay, not trolly tank builds and super defensive playstyles.
I'm sure people enjoy their buff and shield cycles while they passively tag everyone and get AP for doing nothing. It's a no-risk endeavor. The game shouldn't have crap like this.
Sounds to me like you are looking for a Call of Duty type of combat. Eso isn't COD.
1vX and gankers here again to complain about targets wearing heavy armor. I'm shocked.
Tank builds in PvP make for poor gameplay. It's not fun. It turns fights into real drudgery. It's like football before the forward pass. People want fast action, exciting gameplay, not trolly tank builds and super defensive playstyles.
I'm sure people enjoy their buff and shield cycles while they passively tag everyone and get AP for doing nothing. It's a no-risk endeavor. The game shouldn't have crap like this.
Sounds to me like you are looking for a Call of Duty type of combat. Eso isn't COD.
Sounds to me like you are looking for a Call of Duty type of combat. Eso isn't COD.