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A Negate Magic change is needed.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
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This power was OP then worthless to good again. I don't run my Sorcs too much but I like the changes for the most part. But can we change it killing my Ultimate? Meteor and Soul Tether that's fair game they are both magic. But a power that turns off magic should not stop Physical attacks I can use my stamina powers in a negate but I can't Dawnbreaker or Incapacitating Strikes why??

To be clear we don't need this nerfed it's not over or underperforming. It's in a great place but it should have no control over stamina and physical powers.
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  • RoyJade
    RoyJade
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    Dawnbreaker and incap strike, even if they are "physical" and "disease" damage, use some form of magical power in order to be performed. Moreover, they are ultimate, not stam attack, they scale on max magicka too.
  • andreasranasen
    andreasranasen
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    Give back the bug when the negate was following you around. Even though it was just the visual that did and not the actual effect it was beautiful! It really scared people and small zergs that likes to stack in corners! Bring back moving Negates!
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  • kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
    kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
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    Typhoios wrote: »
    Something should be given control over physical powers. It isn't balanced that magic users can be silenced and not be able to use any skills, but stam users can still deal damage, vigor etc... I'm in favor of giving Shifting Standard a stam silence component to even the playing field a bit.

    What are you talking about, stamina uses have half our bars greyed out too Cloak, Fear, Relentless, Mark Target, Blur (longer lasting then Shuffle, resistance buff and Assassin passives.), Shadow Image, Repentance, Extended Ritual, Restoring Focus, Volatile Armor, Cloking Talons, Dragon's Blood (the heal is not super OP anymore but you still get out of Execute buffs healing by 12% cause class passive and well 20% extra stamina regen that's not bad.), Dragon Fire Scales, Molten Armaments, Igneous Shield, Fossilize, Defensive Rune, Dark Deal, Crit Surge and Streak. Unlike mages stamina uses have to slot magic to use it and we use a lot of it.

    Losing our magic utility and ultimates is not fair mages can slot stamina powers they don't be they can.
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  • Apherius
    Apherius
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    +1 negat need a change , just add Stam to the first morph with the magic silence .
    and delete this Big *** of Healing negat ! give us a PVE morph with REAL damage for Sorcerer who d'ont care of overload !
    Edited by Apherius on August 30, 2016 3:44PM
  • asneakybanana
    asneakybanana
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    Apherius wrote: »
    +1 negat need a change , just add Stam to the first morph with the magic silence .
    and delete this Big *** of Healing negat ! give us a PVE morph with REAL damage for Sorcerer who d'ont care of overload !

    A bit off topic but sorcs dont need more damage. They are already by far the best range dps class and having at least a couple of range DPS is basically a must for the new scaled trials making it so that sorcs can get into raid fairly easily. Also if youre using overload in trials you're more than likely doing it wrong and would be better off with meteor.

    If they reverted negate back to 1.5 where it was CC breakable but removed ground effects over its entire duration instead of just when cast and restored resources/health depending on how many ground effects were cast into it over it's duration would be decent balance. Allows mag builds to still do something to counter the I win button mechanic that it is right now but it would make it so that its not totally useless like it was from the time tamriel unlimited came out until dark brotherhood.
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  • Aliniel
    Aliniel
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    Negate needs no changes. I'm a Sorc. I play nothing else. But I agree with a debuff to silence stamina users.
  • Jimboo84
    Jimboo84
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    Why nerf if you just can roll out of it...
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  • Khaos_Bane
    Khaos_Bane
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    Yes, please make sure STA builds can always use their abilities. Continue MAG Nerfs !
  • Khaos_Bane
    Khaos_Bane
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    Apherius wrote: »
    +1 negat need a change , just add Stam to the first morph with the magic silence .
    and delete this Big *** of Healing negat ! give us a PVE morph with REAL damage for Sorcerer who d'ont care of overload !

    You will get next month most likely.
    Edited by Khaos_Bane on August 30, 2016 5:08PM
  • RoyJade
    RoyJade
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    An idea for a new negate :
    • Negate magic : silence player (every magicka and ultimate skill can't be used), dispel magical ground based effect, stun ncp. Deal X magic damage each second (same or lower than suppression's field damage).
    • Suppression field : same as base skill, but does more damage (in pair with meteor while counting the ultimate cost, in order to have a class pve ultimate without giving us more damage than now) OR give also absorption's field heal.
    • Crusher sphere : create a dark sphere who crush the foes inside it, stunning NCP, block all stamina and ultimate abilities from players, and deal X physical damage each second (same as negate's damage). We can also give it a small slow (30% max).

    With that, negate will be even more useful, giving a new damage ultimate for magsorc (if more damage) or a better utilitie one (if both actual morph fused), giving a new stamina morph and a great tool in pvp who don't destroy magicka while giving stamina ball more power.
  • mtwiggz
    mtwiggz
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    Or we can make Negate silence all abilities, stamina and magicka alike.
  • Luigi_Vampa
    Luigi_Vampa
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    Typhoios wrote: »
    Something should be given control over physical powers. It isn't balanced that magic users can be silenced and not be able to use any skills, but stam users can still deal damage, vigor etc... I'm in favor of giving Shifting Standard a stam silence component to even the playing field a bit.

    What are you talking about, stamina uses have half our bars greyed out too Cloak, Fear, Relentless, Mark Target, Blur (longer lasting then Shuffle, resistance buff and Assassin passives.), Shadow Image, Repentance, Extended Ritual, Restoring Focus, Volatile Armor, Cloking Talons, Dragon's Blood (the heal is not super OP anymore but you still get out of Execute buffs healing by 12% cause class passive and well 20% extra stamina regen that's not bad.), Dragon Fire Scales, Molten Armaments, Igneous Shield, Fossilize, Defensive Rune, Dark Deal, Crit Surge and Streak. Unlike mages stamina uses have to slot magic to use it and we use a lot of it.

    Losing our magic utility and ultimates is not fair mages can slot stamina powers they don't be they can.

    You can still heal and do damage. You might lose some utility but you are not crippled like Magic users. What stamina powers do you think magic users could use that wouldn't use up the whole stam pool they need to block, break free and doge roll? The only stam skill I'd use on my mDK is sometimes Shuffle. And I only used it before a fight, or after break free to get the 80% unchained reduction because it is very expensive for a magicka user. You have half your bar greyed out, we have all our bars greyed out.

    The reason stam users can slot so much magic utility is because their magic pool can be used for nothing but utility. Magic users need stam so they can cc break, and we don't have a lot of it. When a stam user runs out of magic, they are still okay. They can still heal, and deal damage. When a magicka user runs out of stam, he is dead.

    You honestly believe that it is fair that an enemy ultimate can completely cripple magicka builds, but only remove some utility from stam builds and that nothing should be able to silence stam healing and damage? Is that balanced to you?

    You should absolutely lose your ultimates and utility in a negate. You are asking to be completely immune to an enemy ultimate, and that should never happen.

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  • Beerbong_Ginn
    Beerbong_Ginn
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    dsalter wrote: »
    Typhoios wrote: »
    Something should be given control over physical powers. It isn't balanced that magic users can be silenced and not be able to use any skills, but stam users can still deal damage, vigor etc... I'm in favor of giving Shifting Standard a stam silence component to even the playing field a bit.

    or a nova morph that blinds all enemies physical hit chance by 80% while in the AoE, basically a negate for melee

    Ooooh, like a little nod/throwback to Blinding Flashes. Nice :smiley:
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  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
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    dsalter wrote: »
    Typhoios wrote: »
    Something should be given control over physical powers. It isn't balanced that magic users can be silenced and not be able to use any skills, but stam users can still deal damage, vigor etc... I'm in favor of giving Shifting Standard a stam silence component to even the playing field a bit.

    or a nova morph that blinds all enemies physical hit chance by 80% while in the AoE, basically a negate for melee

    Nova is in a good place, it is one of the best ultimates for Mitigation alongside Veil, both of which grant the Major Protection buff to the whole group.

    I believe @Typhoios made a better suggestion with Shifting Standard.
    Heck, maybe the "physical silence" could be a side effect of the synergy.
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  • Daveheart
    Daveheart
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    Apherius wrote: »
    +1 negat need a change , just add Stam to the first morph with the magic silence .
    and delete this Big *** of Healing negat ! give us a PVE morph with REAL damage for Sorcerer who d'ont care of overload !

    A bit off topic but sorcs dont need more damage. They are already by far the best range dps class and having at least a couple of range DPS is basically a must for the new scaled trials making it so that sorcs can get into raid fairly easily. Also if youre using overload in trials you're more than likely doing it wrong and would be better off with meteor.

    If they reverted negate back to 1.5 where it was CC breakable but removed ground effects over its entire duration instead of just when cast and restored resources/health depending on how many ground effects were cast into it over it's duration would be decent balance. Allows mag builds to still do something to counter the I win button mechanic that it is right now but it would make it so that its not totally useless like it was from the time tamriel unlimited came out until dark brotherhood.

    I'm fully on board with this.
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  • kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
    kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
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    Typhoios wrote: »
    Typhoios wrote: »
    Something should be given control over physical powers. It isn't balanced that magic users can be silenced and not be able to use any skills, but stam users can still deal damage, vigor etc... I'm in favor of giving Shifting Standard a stam silence component to even the playing field a bit.

    What are you talking about, stamina uses have half our bars greyed out too Cloak, Fear, Relentless, Mark Target, Blur (longer lasting then Shuffle, resistance buff and Assassin passives.), Shadow Image, Repentance, Extended Ritual, Restoring Focus, Volatile Armor, Cloking Talons, Dragon's Blood (the heal is not super OP anymore but you still get out of Execute buffs healing by 12% cause class passive and well 20% extra stamina regen that's not bad.), Dragon Fire Scales, Molten Armaments, Igneous Shield, Fossilize, Defensive Rune, Dark Deal, Crit Surge and Streak. Unlike mages stamina uses have to slot magic to use it and we use a lot of it.

    Losing our magic utility and ultimates is not fair mages can slot stamina powers they don't be they can.

    You can still heal and do damage. You might lose some utility but you are not crippled like Magic users. What stamina powers do you think magic users could use that wouldn't use up the whole stam pool they need to block, break free and doge roll? The only stam skill I'd use on my mDK is sometimes Shuffle. And I only used it before a fight, or after break free to get the 80% unchained reduction because it is very expensive for a magicka user. You have half your bar greyed out, we have all our bars greyed out.

    The reason stam users can slot so much magic utility is because their magic pool can be used for nothing but utility. Magic users need stam so they can cc break, and we don't have a lot of it. When a stam user runs out of magic, they are still okay. They can still heal, and deal damage. When a magicka user runs out of stam, he is dead.

    You honestly believe that it is fair that an enemy ultimate can completely cripple magicka builds, but only remove some utility from stam builds and that nothing should be able to silence stam healing and damage? Is that balanced to you?

    You should absolutely lose your ultimates and utility in a negate. You are asking to be completely immune to an enemy ultimate, and that should never happen.

    That's not like being immune losing my magic is fine but not my ultimate that's not okay if it's not magic damage. We have to do all the same things with our stamina too you know blocking, break free and rolling is cheaper not free add in the attacks and heals you have a mad stamina burn going on. Powers like Mirage, Dark Cloak and Shadow Image are defensive.

    It's not like I'm asking for a free pass a lot of powers kill stamina pretty good knocking out but ultimates and all magic class leaves a lot off the table.
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  • RAGUNAnoOne
    RAGUNAnoOne
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    2 words stupid circle

    plus stamina classes already have a lot less counters than magicka for example the only non class reflect is for spell projectiles. no if phys ultimates loose the ability to be silenced then you might as well just set up a system to prevent mage builds from queing at all to save time

    Finally lore incap= 2 bound daggers a spell for battlemages that was negated in oblivion if silenced and daawnbreaker is pretty much the same thing
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  • kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
    kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
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    2 words stupid circle

    plus stamina classes already have a lot less counters than magicka for example the only non class reflect is for spell projectiles. no if phys ultimates loose the ability to be silenced then you might as well just set up a system to prevent mage builds from queing at all to save time

    Finally lore incap= 2 bound daggers a spell for battlemages that was negated in oblivion if silenced and daawnbreaker is pretty much the same thing

    We left normal logic long again I can use stamina to teleport and pull four different "magic" swords Suprise Attack, Killer's Blade and Incapacitating Strikes. ZoS made the game on launch for mages with no thoughts to stamina builds. The reason stamina heals and stamina class morphs had to be added was cause ZoS don't envision stamina uses wants to use class powers for more then utility.

    Look if the want to make the base and one morph negate magic and magic ultimates and the other morph negates stamina and stamina ultimates I'm fine with that. As long as the two can't overlap that's fine. Physical ultimates can't proc magic bonuses or benefits so they shouldn't have magical consequences.
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