Icereach PC NA (Mulaamnir/Kyne/BWB NA PC - Final)

Beaverton

vamp_emily wrote: »

I can't take any of my low level characters to Kyne because someone will call me a re-roller noob farmee.

FIxed it. ;-p . #roadto482

ShenaniganSquad

Stridig wrote: »

ShenaniganSquad wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

I still think players (like me) should not be able to take a toon through Kyne in consecutive campaigns. If you’re an experienced PVPer, there are three whole campaigns for you to play in without having to crutch on fighting noobs.

So you want to force people who cant play in vet, to play in vet, which will result in them leaving pvp?... yeah good one mate...

Honest question.... what is the reason some people can't play in vet? I've heard that the lag is too bad for some, but I'm trying to understand that. Both Sotha and Shor have the same pop as Kyne on any given day. So there has to be something else about vet PvP that I'm not understanding.

I play at minimum 350 ping in kyne and pve... sotha is usually around 400... vivec is more like 450-500... I was in kyne one day when the server took a dump, my ping went to around 500 and most of the americans in zone were saying their ping jumped to 200-250.. at this point they all started whining in zone that it was unplayable.... well welcome to my internet... I told them they were babies and to suck it up but they all logged claiming 200-250 ping was unplayable for pvp.... so if 200-250 is unplayable for these guys, then I guess 350 is just plain impossible, but I do it, its why you can all cc me to death and me not be able to do anything, im just stuck there, it takes 3 seconds for me to have vigor go off from the time i hit the key to the time it registers and gives me back health, usually in that time someone has animation cancelled 6 snipes and Im dead.... if you have any solutions Im all ears... but I can barely play kyne, so vet is out

Enkil

Stridig wrote: »

Enkil wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

ShenaniganSquad wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

I still think players (like me) should not be able to take a toon through Kyne in consecutive campaigns. If you’re an experienced PVPer, there are three whole campaigns for you to play in without having to crutch on fighting noobs.

So you want to force people who cant play in vet, to play in vet, which will result in them leaving pvp?... yeah good one mate...

Honest question.... what is the reason some people can't play in vet? I've heard that the lag is too bad for some, but I'm trying to understand that. Both Sotha and Shor have the same pop as Kyne on any given day. So there has to be something else about vet PvP that I'm not understanding.

It’s easy for us to generalize about people rerolling on Kyne but there are myriad reason why some players are limited. I play on a MacBook and have trouble grouping ,CTD multiple times in a day... it’s just how it is with a global player base. Playing from oceanic isn’t a picnic and I can surely attest to this as I played from Hawaii from 2014-2018. Y’all playing on mainland can never undersntand it.

Some of us do actually play on Kyne to help the newbs with tactics, gear, and help heal them as they try to learn.... I am one.

You might be a DPS player or whatever, so u don’t even understand that a healer/mentor/leader gives vital support to new players that will be the future PvP players in game. Your view is limited so please don’t try to limit the possibilities of the entire campaign and server based on those views. New people learn from veterans... that’s how it’s been since time immorial..

BTW, I am not trying to be some holier-than-thou MFer.. just saying some players have a natural inclination to help others learn the ropes, get better, and learn to kick ass....

I bought mounts and gear and crafted for new players for years in BWB/Kyne so I DO understand. I'm not some random person from a different server talking trash about Kyne players. I have spent millions of my own gold helping new players. Calm down. I play in vivec with Saber quite often. Saber plays on a MacBook. I'm only asking how Kyne is more playable than Sotha. Thanks for schooling me on what it means to help new people though.

I wasn’t trying to school you at all.... my comments were directed at no one in particular, and I was speaking generally. I’m glad you help/helped newbs and that you can do it on other campaigns as well. I am finally reaching the point where i have more geared vet toons so I am able to do this too.

((why is confrontational the default mode of response!?!?))

Stridig

Enkil wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

Enkil wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

ShenaniganSquad wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

I still think players (like me) should not be able to take a toon through Kyne in consecutive campaigns. If you’re an experienced PVPer, there are three whole campaigns for you to play in without having to crutch on fighting noobs.

So you want to force people who cant play in vet, to play in vet, which will result in them leaving pvp?... yeah good one mate...

Honest question.... what is the reason some people can't play in vet? I've heard that the lag is too bad for some, but I'm trying to understand that. Both Sotha and Shor have the same pop as Kyne on any given day. So there has to be something else about vet PvP that I'm not understanding.

It’s easy for us to generalize about people rerolling on Kyne but there are myriad reason why some players are limited. I play on a MacBook and have trouble grouping ,CTD multiple times in a day... it’s just how it is with a global player base. Playing from oceanic isn’t a picnic and I can surely attest to this as I played from Hawaii from 2014-2018. Y’all playing on mainland can never undersntand it.

Some of us do actually play on Kyne to help the newbs with tactics, gear, and help heal them as they try to learn.... I am one.

You might be a DPS player or whatever, so u don’t even understand that a healer/mentor/leader gives vital support to new players that will be the future PvP players in game. Your view is limited so please don’t try to limit the possibilities of the entire campaign and server based on those views. New people learn from veterans... that’s how it’s been since time immorial..

BTW, I am not trying to be some holier-than-thou MFer.. just saying some players have a natural inclination to help others learn the ropes, get better, and learn to kick ass....

I bought mounts and gear and crafted for new players for years in BWB/Kyne so I DO understand. I'm not some random person from a different server talking trash about Kyne players. I have spent millions of my own gold helping new players. Calm down. I play in vivec with Saber quite often. Saber plays on a MacBook. I'm only asking how Kyne is more playable than Sotha. Thanks for schooling me on what it means to help new people though.

I wasn’t trying to school you at all.... my comments were directed at no one in particular, and I was speaking generally. I’m glad you help/helped newbs and that you can do it on other campaigns as well. I am finally reaching the point where i have more geared vet toons so I am able to do this too.

((why is confrontational the default mode of response!?!?))

I'm fine with all that. I had no idea you were speaking generally since you actually "quoted" me. My original question had nothing to do with why people play in Kyne. I have a pretty good understanding as to why people re-roll.

Sungod

I have been playing in BwB/Kyne since release.

There are a few reasons why I do this which I can list:

1. I am a casual player. This limits the time I spend in the game improving my account (CP, events, gear, achievements etc). Kyne allows me to be competitive in PvP using crafted gear which is easy and fast for me to make. I say competitive, because outside of the 2% of people that may use gold upgrades/monster sets/overland sets not found in cyro vendors, crafted sets are the baseline for everyone. There are of course variances with enchanting, armor improvement and potions/food to have more of an edge over others.
2. I am usually a lone wolf when playing PvP. Due to time restrictions, I have become this way due to not wanting to commit to guilds or groups on a schedule. In my experience, Kyne has smaller guilds, less ball groups and is more solo or 1vx friendly than other campaigns. This is a more enjoyable playing experience for me than I've found on other campaings.
3. Kyne has a smaller overall population base than other servers (aside from Shor). Overtime I have developed some bonding with players (friend and foe). This familiarization with whom I am fighting, or the guilds I am fighting is easy for me. I often feel overwhelmed when I go to other campaings trying to figure out who is who, what is the political climate of the guilds and players. I suppose you can say I feel more socially comfortable in Kyne.

I hear a lot of criticisms of anyone that is not "new" playing in Kyne. Or those of us that perpetually re-roll characters in that campaign. This is a mindset that I do not understand. We are all allowed to play where we want, and how we want within the boundaries of Zenimax's code of conduct and game model. These people act like only "noobs" or people playing their first toon should be allowed to play in Kyne. This is a mindset they have developed for themselves, but is not necessarily adopted or shared by everyone. This is no more silly than saying that anyone under CP 810 and not wearing FULL gold/enchant/food armor should NOT be playing in a CP campaign. People are allowed to play where and how they want. These dictators should be ignored. This idea that anyone jumping into PvP should have their hands held, be wrapped in bubblewrap and protected is silly. Maybe its just me, but I started my MMORPG PVP experience playing Asheron's Call in 1999 on Darktide. If you are unfamiliar, it was a open world, no faction free-for-all, death loot PVP game. There were severe risks and rewards for playing PvP. There was no bubblewrap or hand holding. Anyone that entered, came with the expectation that they were going to get their asses kicked until they improved their skill, learned from mentors, and geared themselves up accordingly. The same mindset should be had with ESO's PvP.
Kyne is no more a learning ground for people new to PvP than any of the other PvP servers. Screw anyone that tries to tell you how to play your game.

Adenoma

I’m gonna be back in their for my necromancer. Super excited to play a bit. I’ve felt burnt out on the current update.

casparian

Sungod wrote: »

We are all allowed to play where we want, and how we want within the boundaries of Zenimax's code of conduct and game model.

No one said it isn't allowed.

The fact is that you and the Rattleheads of the world are perpetually playing against a field stacked with the new, the unskilled, and the uninitiated, in far greater proportions than you would find in other campaigns.In my experience, most of the players on Kyne don't exhibit the skill that even mid-tier players on Vivec or Sotha do. I'll be the first to admit that taking a new character through Kyne occasionally and being so far ahead of much of the server is a fun feeling. But to do that perpetually? Maining Kyne as a re-roller is just granting yourself the bubblewrap of only rarely having to fight players on an equal field. That's sad.

Sungod

casparian wrote: »

Sungod wrote: »

We are all allowed to play where we want, and how we want within the boundaries of Zenimax's code of conduct and game model.

No one said it isn't allowed.

The fact is that you and the Rattleheads of the world are perpetually playing against a field stacked with the new, the unskilled, and the uninitiated, in far greater proportions than you would find in other campaigns.In my experience, most of the players on Kyne don't exhibit the skill that even mid-tier players on Vivec or Sotha do. I'll be the first to admit that taking a new character through Kyne occasionally and being so far ahead of much of the server is a fun feeling. But to do that perpetually? Maining Kyne as a re-roller is just granting yourself the bubblewrap of only rarely having to fight players on an equal field. That's sad.

Do you have actual solid stats to support this? Or are you pulling *** out of your ass to support your narrative? There is no way to compare the amount of "new" players within pvp campaigns. New can also mean anything. There are 'new' people to ESO in general, there are new people to pvp. Do you count all the CP 810 toons that are new to pvp? or do you only think that pre-50 toons are new?

Enkil

Sungod wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Sungod wrote: »

We are all allowed to play where we want, and how we want within the boundaries of Zenimax's code of conduct and game model.

No one said it isn't allowed.

The fact is that you and the Rattleheads of the world are perpetually playing against a field stacked with the new, the unskilled, and the uninitiated, in far greater proportions than you would find in other campaigns.In my experience, most of the players on Kyne don't exhibit the skill that even mid-tier players on Vivec or Sotha do. I'll be the first to admit that taking a new character through Kyne occasionally and being so far ahead of much of the server is a fun feeling. But to do that perpetually? Maining Kyne as a re-roller is just granting yourself the bubblewrap of only rarely having to fight players on an equal field. That's sad.

Do you have actual solid stats to support this? Or are you pulling *** out of your ass to support your narrative? There is no way to compare the amount of "new" players within pvp campaigns. New can also mean anything. There are 'new' people to ESO in general, there are new people to pvp. Do you count all the CP 810 toons that are new to pvp? or do you only think that pre-50 toons are new?

I’m pretty sure the gist of what @casparian is saying is well understood by most that play on Kyne regularly. No sense in calling for hard data that we all know only the dev’s possess that, and when it’s obvious and blatant what’s up. It is what it is. It would just be nice if those that do re-roll on Kyne regularly would help the newbs out so they can learn and grow rather just farm enemy newbs with overwhelming numbers/gear. It’s exploitation of the most simple and obvious form so said players can get their AP fix. Like I said... it is what it is.

MajBludd

Learn not to care. Just play the game because it won't last much longer. I suspect a brief resurgence for necro but it will go back to the normality of a decreasing player base.

Pvp is almost dead

Enkil

I share that thought about PvP dying Major... but I’ll always care. It’s not in my personality to not care in regards to anything.

These devs could improve it and I think Elsweyr could draw back some of the longtime elder scrolls fan type players like me. They can make PvP more inviting with a few adjustments here and there as being discussed in other threads.

MajBludd

@Enkil I think they let pvp slide for far too long to gain any significant numbers back to pvp. Kyne shows this by it lack of pop compared to when it was BWB and you had 3 faction pop lock.

Datthaw

Problem is kids these days don't have patience for mmos. They want to play fartnight and apex losers. The same EXACT game like 10 times. It's like cod, the same thing just new guns.

Itsnotarealwar

casparian wrote: »

Sungod wrote: »

We are all allowed to play where we want, and how we want within the boundaries of Zenimax's code of conduct and game model.

No one said it isn't allowed.

The fact is that you and the Rattleheads of the world are perpetually playing against a field stacked with the new, the unskilled, and the uninitiated, in far greater proportions than you would find in other campaigns.In my experience, most of the players on Kyne don't exhibit the skill that even mid-tier players on Vivec or Sotha do. I'll be the first to admit that taking a new character through Kyne occasionally and being so far ahead of much of the server is a fun feeling. But to do that perpetually? Maining Kyne as a re-roller is just granting yourself the bubblewrap of only rarely having to fight players on an equal field. That's sad.

This is exactly why I left this game after only a few months. Constantly getting rolled by groups of well geared, experienced groups. Then getting t-bagged by them when I actually gave them a run for their money. I had a huge advantage too. I had somebody completely gear me up with all purple gear for every 4 levels. The icing on the cake was all those same people that zerg you down on the forums when you call them out for it.

Sungod

I keep hearing the same arguments "yeah but its no fun when better geared people smoke you".
Well guess what, that is happening in Vivec and Shor as well. And on a grander scale. Next we'll have people calling for no siege cause "siege OP", and "no ball groups" "no masters weapons" "no gold gear or enchants" "wah wah wah".
Shut the *** up and play or die. This game has so many levels of inequality that we could go on forever. As it stands, Kyne provides the most even level playing field vs Vivec and Shor.

Stridig

Sungod wrote: »

I keep hearing the same arguments "yeah but its no fun when better geared people smoke you".
Well guess what, that is happening in Vivec and Shor as well. And on a grander scale. Next we'll have people calling for no siege cause "siege OP", and "no ball groups" "no masters weapons" "no gold gear or enchants" "wah wah wah".
Shut the *** up and play or die. This game has so many levels of inequality that we could go on forever. As it stands, Kyne provides the most even level playing field vs Vivec and Shor.

Why you so mad?

Datthaw

Sungod wrote: »

I keep hearing the same arguments "yeah but its no fun when better geared people smoke you".
Well guess what, that is happening in Vivec and Shor as well. And on a grander scale. Next we'll have people calling for no siege cause "siege OP", and "no ball groups" "no masters weapons" "no gold gear or enchants" "wah wah wah".
Shut the *** up and play or die. This game has so many levels of inequality that we could go on forever. As it stands, Kyne provides the most even level playing field vs Vivec and Shor.

Kyne def does not give the most even playing field. Like not even close. The 160 cp in sotha and the 810 have 0 difference. In viv yeah cp has some effect, But you know what, lowbie toons scale soooooooooo well there, some of the most broken builds are under 50 builds.

The cp 160 and the cp 810 have the same gear advantage also, they don't have to farm sets every 2 lvl to stay relevant like in kyne, and I'm sure yall gonna say "BUT I DoNt uSe gEAr eVeRy 2 lVlS" but still you want to talk about disadvantage? The lvl 15 quester with mismatched green gear and 0 skill points vs the rerolling lvl 35 in up to date gear and farmed skill lines. That's a disadvantage.

At this point either how dead kyne is there is no reason for yall to stay other than you're afraid to leave. It's not "oH BuT mY pINg" I have crap ping and play vet servers, you want to know what my internet is? Mobile hotspot. It's all just excuses at this point.

MajBludd

Too late to lament. Kyne is dead for the most part and all the guilds that stayed and all the rerollers, me included, contributed to its decline in some shape or form. Be it running vet gear or farming dB, meteor, psijic line etc.

But the worst offenders are the guilds that think fun is rolling the map then jumping on another faction to roll the map again. Your guilds killed under 50 because you can't play without running a full raid against a low pop faction.

People get tired of that junk, so you have kyne as it is now. A pvdoor jerk off fest for some dumb ass guild leaders and l33t *** bags.

Sungod

Actually Kyne does give the most even playing field. 99% of people in Kyne can only use A. Crafted gear. B. Gear purchased in Cyrodiil, C. Gear farmed from overland. There is no CP enabled in Kyne, so we can take CP and dungeon/raid gear out of the equation.

Vivec is CP enabled. Those that are max CP have a larger advantage over those under the CP max. Its math, can't refute that. CP also lends to a higher variety in builds than can be found in non-cp enable campaigns.

Gear in Vivec, Sotha and Shor give a HIGER advantage to those that are able to; A. FARM gear from dungeons (Most CP 160 cannot successfully complete the upper tier dungeons and raids that many META builds get their gear from). B. FARM gear from VDSA, IC, vBPA, Maelstrom etc). This gear gap is much higher than any proposed gear gap you mention in Kyne.

Farming gear "every 2 levels" does not give an advantage as much as you think, it just staves off the negative decline one receives while leveling through Kyne. If someone is a "lv 15 quester in green gear", they should expect to not be able to compete the same as someone that enters PvP prepared. You use this argument like only newbies in green and white gear should be pvping in Kyne. You also make the fallacy assumption that a majority of the population of players in Kyne are "lv 15 in mismatched green gear". Unless you have some stats to prove this assumption, its just empty wind to support your weird narrative. If you've ever played Kyne, and speak to people, you will quickly realize that most of the people playing are smart, prepared folks, and that a very small portion of folks are indeed ignorant newbies.

Stating that lowbie toons scale well in Vivec lends nothing to the topic of this conversation.

Bridges1120

Sungod wrote: »

If you've ever played Kyne, and speak to people, you will quickly realize that most of the people playing are smart, prepared folks, and that a very small portion of folks are indeed ignorant newbies.

So to recap. In response to "Few new players want to be in Kyne because they get farmed" you say "Nu uh, there are barely any new players in Kyne!"

Are you missing the like, one foot wide foot path between these two points of logic or is this your moment of "I WON THE ARGUMENT!" triumph.

Stridig

90% of the smart, prepared folks are smart and prepared because they have been in PvP for several years. Anybody who has ever talked to them would know that.

Datthaw

Sungod wrote: »

Actually Kyne does give the most even playing field. 99% of people in Kyne can only use A. Crafted gear. B. Gear purchased in Cyrodiil, C. Gear farmed from overland. There is no CP enabled in Kyne, so we can take CP and dungeon/raid gear out of the equation.

Vivec is CP enabled. Those that are max CP have a larger advantage over those under the CP max. Its math, can't refute that. CP also lends to a higher variety in builds than can be found in non-cp enable campaigns.

Gear in Vivec, Sotha and Shor give a HIGER advantage to those that are able to; A. FARM gear from dungeons (Most CP 160 cannot successfully complete the upper tier dungeons and raids that many META builds get their gear from). B. FARM gear from VDSA, IC, vBPA, Maelstrom etc). This gear gap is much higher than any proposed gear gap you mention in Kyne.

Farming gear "every 2 levels" does not give an advantage as much as you think, it just staves off the negative decline one receives while leveling through Kyne. If someone is a "lv 15 quester in green gear", they should expect to not be able to compete the same as someone that enters PvP prepared. You use this argument like only newbies in green and white gear should be pvping in Kyne. You also make the fallacy assumption that a majority of the population of players in Kyne are "lv 15 in mismatched green gear". Unless you have some stats to prove this assumption, its just empty wind to support your weird narrative. If you've ever played Kyne, and speak to people, you will quickly realize that most of the people playing are smart, prepared folks, and that a very small portion of folks are indeed ignorant newbies.

Stating that lowbie toons scale well in Vivec lends nothing to the topic of this conversation.

As I said everything else is just excuses. I mean you literally like

"I'm at a disadvantage because other people play the game and get gear, and I'm stuck rerolling kyne and afraid to move on"

That's you

siduri

As someone who was actually a noob and stepped into Cyrodiil for the first time during Midyear Mayhem, uh... yeah. It was a bit of an eye-opener and WTF? moment realizing people had farmed and crafted these pieces of gear and then later delete them to begin anew. End result? I'm incredibly unlikely to want to even go to Kyne anymore.

You accuse them of the "fallacy assumption" that there are no newbies. Can you actually back up your claims that there aren't? Just because they're not active on the forums or directly within your eye-sight doesn't mean they don't exist. A lot of them probably go in there, get wrecked and peace out.

And sure, there is the learning aspect. But, I also had the lovely experience of being scooped up by a Kyne guild and thought, "cool, a group to roll with and learn from" only to be witness to hilarious levels of drama from veteran players with a vendetta. Maybe some of these long time Kyne "vets" need to go into the other campaigns for a change of scenery and not have to deal with whoever has caused them some silly slight this week.

TL;DR - yeah, there's problems with Kyne and a lot of them are player caused.

casparian

Sungod you are vastly, vastly overestimating the importance of gear in general, and in particular the importance of gear from difficult dungeons. Very few actually good PVP items come from difficult PVE content, the only real exception being a couple items from vDSA.

Datthaw

casparian wrote: »

Sungod you are vastly, vastly overestimating the importance of gear in general, and in particular the importance of gear from difficult dungeons. Very few actually good PVP items come from difficult PVE content, the only real exception being a couple items from vDSA.

^

ColoursYouHave

I've rolled around Kyne in both green gear out-leveled by 10 levels and purple gear with gold weapons crafted every 2-4 levels, and gear quality and level absolutely make a massive difference. I just recently tried playing in Kyne with gold weapons for the first time, and I couldn't believe how big the difference was between even purple and gold quality gear. I'm generally fine with perpetually re-rolling in Kyne, but to say that gear level or quality doesn't make that big of a difference seems disingenuous at best.

Datthaw

Yeah I mean kyne is probably the most unbalanced gear campaign of them all.

ShenaniganSquad

Im curious as to why people keep harping on about re-rollers, why does it matter to you? Its obvious you (all the re-roller moaners) do not play in kyne any more and have moved on, so why are you still looking back at your time under 50 and complaining about it? .. sounds like salt to me, and salt usually comes from someone feeling they were unfairly beaten. Are you harbouring feelings of hurt and frustration? I just dont get it.. if you dont play there, why on earth do you give any f**ks at all? What is your pay off for continually bringing it up? What is the agenda behind constantly making people who re-roll out to be less than you because you play vet?... Im being serious here... whats the reason for constantly dogging on re-rollers when you dont play kyne or in some cases on this thread, dont even play eso at all any more

Datthaw

ShenaniganSquad wrote: »

Im curious as to why people keep harping on about re-rollers, why does it matter to you? Its obvious you (all the re-roller moaners) do not play in kyne any more and have moved on, so why are you still looking back at your time under 50 and complaining about it? .. sounds like salt to me, and salt usually comes from someone feeling they were unfairly beaten. Are you harbouring feelings of hurt and frustration? I just dont get it.. if you dont play there, why on earth do you give any f**ks at all? What is your pay off for continually bringing it up? What is the agenda behind constantly making people who re-roll out to be less than you because you play vet?... Im being serious here... whats the reason for constantly dogging on re-rollers when you dont play kyne or in some cases on this thread, dont even play eso at all any more

Not dogging on re rollers it's just don't try and *** former rerollers about why you do it, and make up stuff like gear disadvantage. You're not fooling anyone.

Itsnotarealwar

ShenaniganSquad wrote: »

Im curious as to why people keep harping on about re-rollers, why does it matter to you? Its obvious you (all the re-roller moaners) do not play in kyne any more and have moved on, so why are you still looking back at your time under 50 and complaining about it? .. sounds like salt to me, and salt usually comes from someone feeling they were unfairly beaten. Are you harbouring feelings of hurt and frustration? I just dont get it.. if you dont play there, why on earth do you give any f**ks at all? What is your pay off for continually bringing it up? What is the agenda behind constantly making people who re-roll out to be less than you because you play vet?... Im being serious here... whats the reason for constantly dogging on re-rollers when you dont play kyne or in some cases on this thread, dont even play eso at all any more

I can only assume the last sentence is about me. I'll just say that there would be a lot less people who "don't even play ESO at all any more" if it wasn't for re-rolling poor sports who hide behind the guise of poor connections. Or their "charity" of helping new players. Or the made up notion that the skill gap is virtually non existent in sub 50 because gear doesn't really matter. All those excuses are plain b.s. and if anybody disagrees, they are only lying to themselves. Hundreds of threads on the forums about population decline and it's a FACT that re-rollers in sub 50 have contributed to at least some of that. If people can re-roll Kyne forever, then people who don't even play any more have just as much right to come in here and say why.