Ruins of Mazzatun Vet too hard

kadar

Doncellius wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

There is no special prize. However, we can all probably agree that if a single player (no matter the skill level) can solo a veteran dungeon, it is not in need of nerfs. Especially when said nerfs are being called for Day 1.

I don't think we can say that, no. It would be like saying that just because one guy (Bruce Lee) can play ping pong with Nunchucks, that anyone should be able to. The logic doesn't pan out. Most people can't do that.

There are many factors. Not everyone has a high end computer. Not everyone has perfect high speed internet. Not everyone has hours a day to devote to perfecting muscle memory.

In fact, MOST people are not going to be able to "compete" on that level, nor would they want to.

One of the bigger failings of the gaming industry has been the push towards "e-sports" and the pursuit of elite competition, leaderboards, constant comparison, who has the bigger numbers.

It encourages shallow gameplay and tells the company they can skimp on immersion and actual content for the sake of some spreadsheet grinding mash-off.

Maelstrom Arena had the right idea. If people really NEED that sort of affirmation, then let them get it separate from the normal rotation of dungeon content.

Don't balance the game around a minority.

That said, I am not convinced the dungeon is "too hard," especially since the one group I tried it with didn't make it past the turtle boss.

I do think some of the telegraph mechanics are badly designed, which makes it tedious more than hard.

But I am not the Bruce Lee of ESO...... I'd have to use Cheat Engine for that comparison to work

I am a PS4 player as well so no 60FPS to help me. It runs badly on console these days (~10-20FPS with stutters in dungeons).

By this logic, that few can even complete moderately-difficult content, shouldn't we further nerf vICP and vWGT because you still need to follow mechanics to succeed? This all seems like an attempt to justify that these new dungeons need nerfs Day One, by saying almost everyone sucks to much so it has to be done -_-

Maybe it's just me...... but I fail to see how if you see a red circle, you can continue to run into it and not understand why you took damage. If you honestly cannot invest the time to follow mechanics and must faceroll it, you can play on Normal.

Note, Bruce Lee used Cheat Engine. This is my take away.

Milvan

Casual scrolls attacking again.

C'mon guys. It's not even that hard. It's challeging and easy to learn hard to master.

UltimaJoe777

Milvan wrote: »

C'mon guys. It's not even that hard. It's challeging and easy to learn hard to master.

FTFY.

Mettaricana

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I am sorry but I have to agree with the OP. This dungeon is far too hard for casuals. Most people are not going to be able to do this on Vet. We made it to the fourth boss before our tank had to go and then after another 10 deaths, the other dps and heals had to go. Everyone kept getting one shot by the By that time, we had gone through at least 20+ deaths.

They need to dial things back about 25% from what they are. The 30 extra CP don't do anything to make up for the severe increase in damage.

The Third Bosses (Mighty Chudan) Mucous Spray his for between 25-35k on players so that was a one hit kill no matter what.

If you do this on Vet, you need to have teamspeak no matter what. It is twice as bad as VICP and VWGT was when it was first released.

The one guild I am in also tried Trials tonight and AA is 10 times harder than it used to be.
The Storm Attronach, in addition to new mechanics has 51.7 million Health
Overcharge is hitting for 84+k.... there is no blocking that.
The Stone Attronach has 41.4 million Health...
Adds have over a million health each as well.

Frankly, dial it back a bit, or make a new third Elitist Tier for people who want that type of competition.

But this type of stuff is not fun to me and to a lot of other people. You complain that we are giving our honest opinions about this now with it just being released, just wait until the rest of the community catches up after the download. This forum is going to be flooded with complaints.

The rewards for doing these, does not come close to making up for the punishment of doing them.

Kinda wish mmos would stop doing more health means hardmode and just make bosses fight smarter and more aggressive rather than puttings health through the roof

Forestd16b14_ESO

Yes it is tough............. BUT IT IS AMAZINGLY BRUTAL.... Don't even dare ask for nerfs for the longest time PvE is actually challenging and fun again

Vaoh

The_Outsider wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

There is no special prize. However, we can all probably agree that if a single player (no matter the skill level) can solo a veteran dungeon, it is not in need of nerfs. Especially when said nerfs are being called for Day 1.

I don't think we can say that, no. It would be like saying that just because one guy (Bruce Lee) can play ping pong with Nunchucks, that anyone should be able to. The logic doesn't pan out. Most people can't do that.

There are many factors. Not everyone has a high end computer. Not everyone has perfect high speed internet. Not everyone has hours a day to devote to perfecting muscle memory.

In fact, MOST people are not going to be able to "compete" on that level, nor would they want to.

One of the bigger failings of the gaming industry has been the push towards "e-sports" and the pursuit of elite competition, leaderboards, constant comparison, who has the bigger numbers.

It encourages shallow gameplay and tells the company they can skimp on immersion and actual content for the sake of some spreadsheet grinding mash-off.

Maelstrom Arena had the right idea. If people really NEED that sort of affirmation, then let them get it separate from the normal rotation of dungeon content.

Don't balance the game around a minority.

That said, I am not convinced the dungeon is "too hard," especially since the one group I tried it with didn't make it past the turtle boss.

I do think some of the telegraph mechanics are badly designed, which makes it tedious more than hard.

But I am not the Bruce Lee of ESO...... I'd have to use Cheat Engine for that comparison to work

I am a PS4 player as well so no 60FPS to help me. It runs badly on console these days (~10-20FPS with stutters in dungeons).

By this logic, that few can even complete moderately-difficult content, shouldn't we further nerf vICP and vWGT because you still need to follow mechanics to succeed? This all seems like an attempt to justify that these new dungeons need nerfs Day One, by saying almost everyone sucks to much so it has to be done -_-

Maybe it's just me...... but I fail to see how if you see a red circle, you can continue to run into it and not understand why you took damage. If you honestly cannot invest the time to follow mechanics and must faceroll it, you can play on Normal.

Note, Bruce Lee used Cheat Engine. This is my take away.

Not that Bruce Lee used Cheat Engine.... but that I'd need Cheat Engine to be the ESO equivalent of Bruce Lee.

Oh forget it lol.

MaxwellC

Seriously please don't nerf another dungeon. I'm sick and tired of people complaining about content especially when it just came out. Too many dungeons have been nerf'd if you can't complete it, then it's time to re-think tactics and optimize your build even further to meet the criteria for all dungeons.

I'm not coming after the OP but just painting with a broad bush on the subject.

AzraelKrieg

Stop asking for nerfs just because it's hard. It's meant to be hard. That's the point of vet mode dungeons. They are supposed to be a challenge where you learn the mechanics for the fights. If you can't complete it, stick to normal until you feel confident in your abilities to do it. And stop thinking pug groups are going to be even feasible in these things. Find a solid group and learn together.

Stridig

My only complaint about the new dungeons is the level 1 gear drops. I got one of the new gear set drops in each dungeon that is level 1. Lol

JodaGreyhame

Please don't nerf this at all - our group finished vet hard mode fine. The whole dungeon still seems way too easy, especially since the content has just been released.

Nebthet78

Well I am not saying it needs a huge nerf, but I do feel it does need to be toned down just a bit, especially if it is going to be in the rotation of Vet Gold Pledges like it was today. It could be the insane amount of health, adds and the boss have, in comparison to other V160 Gold pledge dungeons that is making it harder to deal with taking the boss down with only four players.

This content is also not just for Elitists or Min/Maxers. It has to cater to everyone. Perhaps one day they will make a nightmare mode for those players who want to go up against a boss with 55million health and constant one shot kills.

I have tried both Vet and Normal modes of these dungeons today and I have to say the difficulty of Vet is 100x harder than Normal. Normal is a cake walk.
Perhaps the issue is how ZOS is upscaling things. Maybe there is something going on that shouldn't that we don't know about. But I guarantee, within the week, a lot of people will be complaining, especially when it hits Consoles.

Trublz

[SNIP]

But in no way is this dungeon too hard. And this is coming from someone who didn't even complete it. I spent over 3hrs total.
I ran with 2 different groups. 1st we killed chundar but members had to bail bcuz it was late. 2nd group we got to last boss but we couldn't finish again bcuz members had to go to bed.
It's all a matter of learning the mechanics. They are very specific and if you can't follow them to a T, and coordinate with group members, you will not finish. I can't wait to log in tomorrow and beat that tree huggin [SNIP]!
[SNIP]

[Edited for Baiting and Profanity]

UltimaJoe777

So since most of the posts here are aggressive in nature I'd just like to point out OP edited his thread and stated the reason they had trouble was because their group was not up to the task collectively. If OP had a more coordinated group it would have gone better for him/her. I get how you all feel but the aggression is only going to get you moderated and/or this thread closed...

Forestd16b14_ESO

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

So since most of the posts here are aggressive in nature I'd just like to point out OP edited his thread and stated the reason they had trouble was because their group was not up to the task collectively. If OP had a more coordinated group it would have gone better for him/her. I get how you all feel but the aggression is only going to get you moderated and/or this thread closed...

Yes some of the post are aggressive but in fairness the content did just come out and players for a long time have been asking for tougher PvE content and these dungeons delivered that.

Could just be natural reaction to threads like these. You know some one complaining about skmething when they die to it.

Is the new dungeons hard? Yes. Do they need nerfed? No once you know what to do.

All in my opinion of course no harm towards any one.

Tyrion87

Haven't done it yet, but could you please tell me how you estimate the difficulty of those two new dungeons (vet modes) compared to vWGT and vICP? Harder? Easier? Of course assuming that you have a good build and know the mechanics.

Izaki

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I am sorry but I have to agree with the OP. This dungeon is far too hard for casuals. Most people are not going to be able to do this on Vet. We made it to the fourth boss before our tank had to go and then after another 10 deaths, the other dps and heals had to go. Everyone kept getting one shot by the By that time, we had gone through at least 20+ deaths.

They need to dial things back about 25% from what they are. The 30 extra CP don't do anything to make up for the severe increase in damage.

The Third Bosses (Mighty Chudan) Mucous Spray his for between 25-35k on players so that was a one hit kill no matter what.

If you do this on Vet, you need to have teamspeak no matter what. It is twice as bad as VICP and VWGT was when it was first released.

The one guild I am in also tried Trials tonight and AA is 10 times harder than it used to be.
The Storm Attronach, in addition to new mechanics has 51.7 million Health
Overcharge is hitting for 84+k.... there is no blocking that.
The Stone Attronach has 41.4 million Health...
Adds have over a million health each as well.

Frankly, dial it back a bit, or make a new third Elitist Tier for people who want that type of competition.

But this type of stuff is not fun to me and to a lot of other people. You complain that we are giving our honest opinions about this now with it just being released, just wait until the rest of the community catches up after the download. This forum is going to be flooded with complaints.

The rewards for doing these, does not come close to making up for the punishment of doing them.

First time I did Imperial City Prison I spent 100 soul gems and 5 hours. We didn't even finish it past the Abomination. Took us around two weeks or doing the dungeon to actually complete it. That dungeon could never be done in a PuG group at all. Its just not possible unless everyone has already done. That was until the nerf from Dark Brotherhood at least.

White Gold Tower was definetly easier. But no PuG could ever do it either.

Those dungeons weren't for casuals and they were great, before the nerf happened. Now ICP is just a very long very boring and a very easy dungeon with a decent group. White Gold Tower is a joke. Because people were crying for nerfs as the dungeons didn't appeal to casuals.

What next? Nerf Maw of Lorkhaj and make group finder for trials? What's the point? Where's the fun in that even for a casual? People are already messing around with normal Sanctum Ophidia on level 45 just to get the gear. I farmed mine on CP160 for hells knows how many hours. So Maw is a place where gear certainly matters because everyone has to be very good at DPS, healing or tanking. But there are also mechanics that make it impossible to complete only if you have the right gear. You actually need to talk and think about what is happening. That's the whole point of an MMO. To play with people and figure diffucult stuff together.
Take the Possessed Manticora as an example. When he does his big AoE thing, if one member doesn't block damage starts to hurt, if two don't block half the group wipes, if three don't block you might as well rez at wayshrine cause you're going to waste your soul gems otherwise.

Please don't nerf hard stuff for the sake of making it appeal to casuals. People who find it too hard => there's a normal version available just for that. You don't get the gear. Because to get that sweet Amberplasm or Velidreth set you gotta actually beat it on vet. Review your whole build. Learn all the mechanics. And then you may get your sets not before. Not like with Sanctum.

pretzl

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Haven't done it yet, but could you please tell me how you estimate the difficulty of those two new dungeons (vet modes) compared to vWGT and vICP? Harder? Easier? Of course assuming that you have a good build and know the mechanics.

It's a bit hard to say atm because there are alot of NEW mechanics. Mechanics that have never before been seen require time to figure out so it creates a certain level of artificial difficulty simply because you don't know the mechanics.
With this in mind, I'd say vRoM is slightly harder than vICP, but not by alot. vCoS is also about the same difficulty, but perhaps just alittle harder.

idk

Valn wrote: »

dw, killed it after 4 hours. it was a pug group, next time ill find a decent team

Is it to hard or are we maybe learning the mechanics? Also, was your pug in voice chat or just using text?

The new dungeons are mechanics driven and once players have the mechanics down they will be much easier. Also, being in voice chat helps group work through new content like this much easier. Going into it without voice chat, especially with random players increases the challenge significantly.

And yea, I would never do a new dungeon with unknown players. Just such a dice roll.

Izaki

Phinix1 wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

There is no special prize. However, we can all probably agree that if a single player (no matter the skill level) can solo a veteran dungeon, it is not in need of nerfs. Especially when said nerfs are being called for Day 1.

I don't think we can say that, no. It would be like saying that just because one guy (Bruce Lee) can play ping pong with Nunchucks, that anyone should be able to. The logic doesn't pan out. Most people can't do that.

There are many factors. Not everyone has a high end computer. Not everyone has perfect high speed internet. Not everyone has hours a day to devote to perfecting muscle memory.

In fact, MOST people are not going to be able to "compete" on that level, nor would they want to.

One of the bigger failings of the gaming industry has been the push towards "e-sports" and the pursuit of elite competition, leaderboards, constant comparison, who has the bigger numbers.

It encourages shallow gameplay and tells the company they can skimp on immersion and actual content for the sake of some spreadsheet grinding mash-off.

Maelstrom Arena had the right idea. If people really NEED that sort of affirmation, then let them get it separate from the normal rotation of dungeon content.

Don't balance the game around a minority.

That said, I am not convinced the dungeon is "too hard," especially since the one group I tried it with didn't make it past the turtle boss.

I do think some of the telegraph mechanics are badly designed, which makes it tedious more than hard.

Except, they ain't balancing the game around it. The other dungeons are already easy AF when you've done them a couple of times. This is a optional dungeon. Its a DLC. If you buy DLCs you're putting at least some kind of time into the game. I'm by no means a top player, not even a capped CP, but I enjoy doing hard stuff. Beating vMSA is a great feeling, these dungeons and the revamp of Trials are meant to give the same kind of feeling. Except its in a group environment, so instead of saying "I'm so awesome" you're going to say "we are so awesome, thank you for the run guys, its been a pleasure".

MattT1988

Grrr, this is why we can't have nice things......

Vaoh

Why do we even have a Normal version anymore? What's the point?

People are just going to cry for nerfs Day 1 and ruin it for everyone.

Can we lower the CP cap to 160 already and cap incoming damage at 24% of Max Health to accomodate as well?.... because right now it looks like all of the terrible players are too upset over losing on the hardest difficulty within hours of release that it needs to be nerfed instead of choosing Normal Mode. All to satisfy their needs to faceroll it on CP160 characters wearing random green/blue gear with terrible builds and not following mechanics. Playing on Normal would hurt their egos because they want the loot (CP160 versions of same sets) from beating it on Veteran without putting in any of the effort

Lieblingsjunge

Yeah, it's really hard. But you know what, that suits me JUST fine! vWGT was the same - vICP, too. Tried the boss for a while last night, dayum it's a pain. But that's part of the struggle - part of the game. You can't expect to beat all new content in 1 day, in one try. Geez, you people want everything handed to you.

IwakuraLain42

Playing dungeons on Normal is extremely boring for and halfway competent player (try nWGT or nICP for example), so don't ask people to just use that. May I remember you that this a paid DLC that just contains the 2 new dungeons and trials ? This needs to sell (not everyone has ESO+), but only having the ridiculously easy Normal versions will not do. I'll see for myself in a few weeks how this plays out (Console player here), but I'm hoping for content that has some fair mechanics that you can actually figure out and enemies that any decent player with decent gear can finish (unlike for example vMoL or vMSA)

Lord_Eomer

I am playing mostly on PS4 (620 CP), yesterday i tried this dungeon on PC (210 CP), we were group of 200+ CP and unable to beat Mighty Chudan.

After 3-4 tries, we were keep failing and had left.

May be i need to workout on my PC account to raise more Cp and get good gear and will try again. This dungeon is tough but not impossible..

I am sure i will be able to do on PS4 once it comes out.

leandro.800ub17_ESO

I didnt beat it last night but i did inderstand mechanics well.
Its allot more easy than ICP and WGT when they came out so please no nerf

Valn

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I am playing mostly on PS4 (620 CP), yesterday i tried this dungeon on PC (210 CP), we were group of 200+ CP and unable to beat Mighty Chudan.

After 3-4 tries, we were keep failing and had left.

May be i need to workout on my PC account to raise more Cp and get good gear and will try again. This dungeon is tough but not impossible..

I am sure i will be able to do on PS4 once it comes out.

I was in that dungeon for 4 hours. It's worth it in the end though no matter how frustrating it was. But too me it's too hard for casuals

Vaoh

Just created a poll that works in favor of everyone

Let Normal stay very easy.

Make Veteran easier so it's doable basically everytime by random groups for Veteran Pledges.

Add Nightmare with increased rewards for "tough" difficulty.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/282376/time-for-the-next-dungeon-difficulty-tier#latest

dwemer_cog11

Actually I was running this dungeon with someone called "Valn" - a DK tank having around 290 CP. And we did pretty OK, considering non of us ran this dungeon before, made some good pulls on last boss

OP, if you are the one I am talking about - have found a healer to beat the last boss after I bailed out ?

Dromede

My group spent almost 3 hrs there yesterday. We finished vet Mazzatun on normal mode, difficult was too overwhelming.

We figured it out as we went through - no walkthrough, just a little help from guildies. We had a blast, epecially on pre-last boss with the cleansing fountains. It was interesting, challenging, so much fun!

Please don't nerf it. I'm pretty sure that more people will be able to ace the new dungeons as soon as they get a chance to learn and memorize mechanics.

P.s. That pool of spice mechanic is truly wonderful! It gave my Vicious Ophidian set a whole new meaning lol - i loved the speed buff before, adored it in this dngeon

zerosingularity

This dungeon isn't so bad in a coordinated group on TS. I don't see hardmode easily doable without a voice chat program due to the boss mechanics, but I doubt it needs a nerf just yet. Who knows, we might get more CP next DLC making this easier.

That Amberplasm set though, yum!