Proof that Magicka Sorcerer is not OP as claimed

Essiaga

Fasoo wrote: »

Here is my simple proof/reason Magicka Sorcerer is now a mid to low tier spec:

When you go into Cyrodiil, how many Magicka Sorcs do you see? Compared to Templar, to night blade, to Dragonknight. It is laughable. Now count how many of those Sorcs killed you , and then count how many times you die to other specific specs, the difference is very substantial. Yet people that die to a Magicka Sorc immediately claim "Cheat Engine". The reason being most Magicka sorcerers are so subpar they cannot kill a mid tier player nowadays, so when the said mid tier player is actually killed,(by very specific players I may add) they are already pointing fingers claiming "Cheat Engine!" Magicka Sorc is in a very similar spot to Magicka DK in the sense that only the absolute elite tier of them can still perform , while the meager numbers of the remaining fail to perform due to not enough experience and playing only in the strong Sorc meta of previous patches.

If Magicka Sorc is so good, why does no one play one? (I'm looking at all you Templar ReRolls"

I was running with a Magicka Sorc in duo and immediately as we were killing a larger than usual amount of people, I was bombarded with whispers of "cheat engine" "hacker" "tool" and etc.
I was even Whispered by a man saying "You are nothing but a scoundrel , a thief, a coward". And he then followed that up with a "Give a kiss to your hero , H-I-T-L-E-R".
now I'm not sure if that was a reference to the notorious PCNA Sorc and he was basing rumors of one Sorc to be applied to all of us ,but I find It very funny.

The point of my post is this, Magicka Sorc is in a terrible position, small scale being the 2nd worst spec to play (HAIL MAG DK) And the people that die to the rare Pepe Sorc need to realize it is simply a L2P issue and there are much bigger issues within pvp, with Stam and tank builds being rampant, etc.

To all Magicka Sorcs still out there Exposing in 2016, I salute you.

I never PVPed with mSorc. Hardened Ward nerf that bad?

jeedrzej

There is simplier explenation.
Sorcerer now isn't as easy as before DB.
Most people like easy-mode :P

Ryuho

MSorc is still strong in 1 vs 1 situations. Sharpened changes ofc worked for our advantage, casue we can 3 shot ppls now, but those changes are also nail to our coffin.. I mean its sooo hard to play sorc 1 vs x those days, u need to rely on environment even more (rocks/trees are ur best friends in open pvp), but most scenarios u wont escape good medium geared players, cause insane speed they have and 99% u will die.. Also if u drop ur shield for 1 sec u die.. besides its super esy to die vs 2 medium skilled nbs, fear -> double inca -> double suprise (u have 0 armor, 0 crit resist also - cause u rely on shields - thx ZOS for new sharpened) if u are lucky ur hp will be at 10% after such burst, u start reshielding/blinking, they repeat combo, BOOOM dead. Sadly that's the 1 vs x for sorc those days.. We lost our potential to perform good in 1 vs x, dawnbrkr changes, shield changes, sharpened changes, magicka skill cost incresae those all changes *** us to much..

And if som1 claims that he saw good sorc 1 vs 1 dueling, yeas, as I noted above, sorc is good 1 vs 1, but sorc lost 1 vs x potential and it's at the same spot like mDK, mDK in 1 vs 1 is also great, but 1 vs x same as sorc, sucks..

Also please understand, ofc u will see nice videos of sorcs rekting in 1 vs x, but trust me, they are facing scrubs, its almost impossible to 1 vs 2/3 if u face medium skilled players those days..

I am waiting for old sets, I am gonna try pokemon master setup next patch with sick magicka pool.

Till now I am playing my mTemplar mostly, sadly mTemplar is in better spot this patch than sorc, and mTemplar was always most nerfed class

Vaoh

Ryuho wrote: »

MSorc is still strong in 1 vs 1 situations. Sharpened changes ofc worked for our advantage, casue we can 3 shot ppls now, but those changes are also nail to our coffin.. I mean its sooo hard to play sorc 1 vs x those days, u need to rely on environment even more (rocks/trees are ur best friends in open pvp), but most scenarios u wont escape good medium geared players, cause insane speed they have and 99% u will die.. Also if u drop ur shield for 1 sec u die.. besides its super esy to die vs 2 medium skilled nbs, fear -> double inca -> double suprise (u have 0 armor, 0 crit resist also - cause u rely on shields - thx ZOS for new sharpened) if u are lucky ur hp will be at 10% after such burst, u start reshielding/blinking, they repeat combo, BOOOM dead. Sadly that's the 1 vs x for sorc those days.. We lost our potential to perform good in 1 vs x, dawnbrkr changes, shield changes, sharpened changes, magicka skill cost incresae those all changes *** us to much..

And if som1 claims that he saw good sorc 1 vs 1 dueling, yeas, as I noted above, sorc is good 1 vs 1, but sorc lost 1 vs x potential and it's at the same spot like mDK, mDK in 1 vs 1 is also great, but 1 vs x same as sorc, sucks..

Also please understand, ofc u will see nice videos of sorcs rekting in 1 vs x, but trust me, they are facing scrubs, its almost impossible to 1 vs 2/3 if u face medium skilled players those days..

I am waiting for old sets, I am gonna try pokemon master setup next patch with sick magicka pool.

Till now I am playing my mTemplar mostly, sadly mTemplar is in better spot this patch than sorc, and mTemplar was always most nerfed class

Magicka Sorc is strong at 1vX still. Burst is more key though and harder to achieve for us now. I agree that Sorcerer needs a lot of changes though. There is a reason it is the most uncommon class in PvP by a large margin

You just need to be on top of your game. Not faceroll anymore. If you run Magicka Sorc, you need to be skillful to not get ruined asap. If you aren't a Magicka Sorc who is "really good" you are typically free AP/Ult gain to any 1vXer.

Magicka Templar has been good for awhile now. This patch, it is on the brink of OP, and needs to be toned down a bit imo. Definitely the go-to Magicka class, and is why 85%+ of Magicka classes this patch in PvP are Templars They also have great synergy with certain broken sets (Malubeth, Reactive Armor).

Derra

Fasoo wrote: »

Here is my simple proof/reason Magicka Sorcerer is now a mid to low tier spec:

When you go into Cyrodiil, how many Magicka Sorcs do you see? Compared to Templar, to night blade, to Dragonknight. It is laughable. Now count how many of those Sorcs killed you , and then count how many times you die to other specific specs, the difference is very substantial. Yet people that die to a Magicka Sorc immediately claim "Cheat Engine". The reason being most Magicka sorcerers are so subpar they cannot kill a mid tier player nowadays, so when the said mid tier player is actually killed,(by very specific players I may add) they are already pointing fingers claiming "Cheat Engine!" Magicka Sorc is in a very similar spot to Magicka DK in the sense that only the absolute elite tier of them can still perform , while the meager numbers of the remaining fail to perform due to not enough experience and playing only in the strong Sorc meta of previous patches.

If Magicka Sorc is so good, why does no one play one? (I'm looking at all you Templar ReRolls"

I was running with a Magicka Sorc in duo and immediately as we were killing a larger than usual amount of people, I was bombarded with whispers of "cheat engine" "hacker" "tool" and etc.
I was even Whispered by a man saying "You are nothing but a scoundrel , a thief, a coward". And he then followed that up with a "Give a kiss to your hero , H-I-T-L-E-R".
now I'm not sure if that was a reference to the notorious PCNA Sorc and he was basing rumors of one Sorc to be applied to all of us ,but I find It very funny.

The point of my post is this, Magicka Sorc is in a terrible position, small scale being the 2nd worst spec to play (HAIL MAG DK) And the people that die to the rare Pepe Sorc need to realize it is simply a L2P issue and there are much bigger issues within pvp, with Stam and tank builds being rampant, etc.

To all Magicka Sorcs still out there Exposing in 2016, I salute you.

Even pre nerfs sorcs were behind in every class poll for cyrodiil. If it would at any point have been as op as people made it out to be there would have been more people playing them.

Hektik_V

With the change to negate making it the strongest ultimate in the game and the nerf to shields the paradigm that ZoS seems to think magicka sorcs should fit into is in a group.

Personally I'd give anything to go back to stronger shields and revert the change to negate IMO.

Cinnamon_Spider

With the right build, sorc is amazing on the non cp campaign. When you add in cp, stam builds make things rough.

It's difficult to find the right balance between max magic and regen without neglecting something else.

The most ridiculous thing to me is when I can't chase someone down because of Streak cost increase. Maybe thats my penance for using such a troll build for so long.

Sandman929

Does anyone still say Sorcs are OP? They're still plenty strong in the right hands, but not OP.

Minalan

They've broken the sorc class to the point where you're either Zerg surfing or playing no-CP anymore.

I'm sorry, but if you're 1vX'ing people in TF or Haderus with a sorc, the people you are fighting are simply awful. Period. I do it all the time, but those people I kill aren't blocking, dodging, healing, using shuffle, Dizzying swing, or crit rush. The ice comet lands and they all fly into thei air. That's not what decent players do.

That's why all of the good players quit sorc. Because they know that there's more to playing this game than beating up PVE potatoes in the sewers. They can't fight their PVPer friends. They can't play solo. They don't want to Zerg surf and cast negate.

PS: I don't get why people keep telling me how powerful negate is? You dodge roll out, then go back to killing people. Am I missing something? Can you not just dodge roll out once?

TrueGreenSmoker

Still play Sorc but more on my Mag Dk

OrphanHelgen

Meta doesnt mean strongest.
Wouldnt it be fun to be the only magicka sorc for once?

Minalan

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

With the right build, sorc is amazing on the non cp campaign. When you add in cp, stam builds make things rough.

It's difficult to find the right balance between max magic and regen without neglecting something else.

The most ridiculous thing to me is when I can't chase someone down because of Streak cost increase. Maybe thats my penance for using such a troll build for so long.

This pretty much. Sorcs are still amazing in Azuras No CP.

No-CP is just you, a little bit of gear, and whatever skill you bring. Everyone is level 50.

Damage is capped without CP, there are no one hit kills. You have a fighting chance to avoid a gank.

Every class is even without CP. You can't block forever. You can't dodge roll forever. Sorcs can't shield forever. Templars can't heal forever.

It's fun. I recommend everyone try it. If you think you're good and not just relying on 501 CP, broken builds, and class imbalance - Come test yourself.

rfennell_ESO

Magicka Sorcs are pretty lackluster without "superior animation cancelling".

Of course what I mean is macros and a little bit of cheat engine to speed things up.

Makkir

@Fasoo The only people who refuse to admit what you state in your OP are trolls or butthurt stambads that were sorc fodder last DLC.

If the class was actually fun to play I wouldn't be upset about "mid to low point range" as much.

I got called a dirty hack and a pot chugging N word two nights ago for killing a group of 3 AD on Haderus.

Seriously, some of these stam classes are playing with a handicap right now

Yoyuyi999

Thats because sorceror got harder to play. Doesnt mean it isnt as good. Dont get me wrong, this isnt me denouncing that other specs are OP. Stamina still needs some type of nerf to its healing/sustain. Besides that, MSorc is still a VERY strong spec and I still consider it one of the bests to small scale with. When I was on a mag sorc (even without proper gear with impen, and 19k hp) I was able to tank, sustain and burst people quickly. With the shield change it makes it much harder for newbies to play sorc which is why they reroll. But to all the experienced players out there that know how to play each and every spec in the game with ease. They should still be good as a sorc. That's all I have to say. Sorc got harder to play, but is still really good.

Hyssia

Magicka Sorc is tha bomb dude.

Ppl mad cuz their detonation+dawnbreaker cheese combo no longer works : ' (

WillhelmBlack

A Sorc in 5 light is just as strong as a Templar in 5 light. Put that Templar in Heavy or Reactive, Transmutation and Malubeth and that then is just another story, one which I won't get into in this thread but I'll put it this way, it is no worse than Sorc before the shield nerf. You could knock either flat on the floor and you still can't burst them.

Lucky28

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

Thats because sorceror got harder to play. Doesnt mean it isnt as good. Dont get me wrong, this isnt me denouncing that other specs are OP. Stamina still needs some type of nerf to its healing/sustain. Besides that, MSorc is still a VERY strong spec and I still consider it one of the bests to small scale with. When I was on a mag sorc (even without proper gear with impen, and 19k hp) I was able to tank, sustain and burst people quickly. With the shield change it makes it much harder for newbies to play sorc which is why they reroll. But to all the experienced players out there that know how to play each and every spec in the game with ease. They should still be good as a sorc. That's all I have to say. Sorc got harder to play, but is still really good.

It didn't get harder to play, it got boring to play. every single sorc in this game is now running the same exact build. there is no variation and sorcs weren't all that varied to begin with but with the changes in DB there is no room for imagination with the class, it's just stale and stagnant and every sorc looks the same.

Yoyuyi999

Lucky28 wrote: »

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

Thats because sorceror got harder to play. Doesnt mean it isnt as good. Dont get me wrong, this isnt me denouncing that other specs are OP. Stamina still needs some type of nerf to its healing/sustain. Besides that, MSorc is still a VERY strong spec and I still consider it one of the bests to small scale with. When I was on a mag sorc (even without proper gear with impen, and 19k hp) I was able to tank, sustain and burst people quickly. With the shield change it makes it much harder for newbies to play sorc which is why they reroll. But to all the experienced players out there that know how to play each and every spec in the game with ease. They should still be good as a sorc. That's all I have to say. Sorc got harder to play, but is still really good.

It didn't get harder to play, it got boring to play. every single sorc in this game is now running the same exact build. there is no variation and sorcs weren't all that varied to begin with but with the changes in DB there is no room for imagination with the class, it's just stale and stagnant and every sorc looks the same.

Lol sorc always had no variation. For me its always been boring, nothing changed about that. But yes it did indeed get harder to play for scrubs.

Derra

Lucky28 wrote: »

Yoyuyi999 wrote: »

Thats because sorceror got harder to play. Doesnt mean it isnt as good. Dont get me wrong, this isnt me denouncing that other specs are OP. Stamina still needs some type of nerf to its healing/sustain. Besides that, MSorc is still a VERY strong spec and I still consider it one of the bests to small scale with. When I was on a mag sorc (even without proper gear with impen, and 19k hp) I was able to tank, sustain and burst people quickly. With the shield change it makes it much harder for newbies to play sorc which is why they reroll. But to all the experienced players out there that know how to play each and every spec in the game with ease. They should still be good as a sorc. That's all I have to say. Sorc got harder to play, but is still really good.

It didn't get harder to play, it got boring to play. every single sorc in this game is now running the same exact build. there is no variation and sorcs weren't all that varied to begin with but with the changes in DB there is no room for imagination with the class, it's just stale and stagnant and every sorc looks the same.

People who haven´t played sorc to some extend will never understand that.

If you haven´t played sorc to it´s limits (or atleast theorycrafted it there) this is out of most ppls imagination because they never noticed variation in sorcs to begin with as the class always was onedimensional and got even more so after the latest patch.

Darnathian

Makkir wrote: »

@Fasoo The only people who refuse to admit what you state in your OP are trolls or butthurt stambads that were sorc fodder last DLC.

If the class was actually fun to play I wouldn't be upset about "mid to low point range" as much.

I got called a dirty hack and a pot chugging N word two nights ago for killing a group of 3 AD on Haderus.

Seriously, some of these stam classes are playing with a handicap right now

and all the whinners in this thread were relying on easy mode shields.

Minalan

Darnathian wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

@Fasoo The only people who refuse to admit what you state in your OP are trolls or butthurt stambads that were sorc fodder last DLC.

If the class was actually fun to play I wouldn't be upset about "mid to low point range" as much.

I got called a dirty hack and a pot chugging N word two nights ago for killing a group of 3 AD on Haderus.

Seriously, some of these stam classes are playing with a handicap right now

and all the whinners in this thread were relying on easy mode shields.

Because all of our other class-specific abilities are awesome.

I mean, sorcs should just cloak, scales, and breath of life instead of shields right? Shields are just easy mode...

Acts

RIP Mag Sorcs of Old.

SubtleHate

I feel more powerful than ever on my Sorcs when I play properly. But it is harder to play-- if you make mistakes on a Sorc it'll cost you a lot more than similar mistakes on other classes would. I'm still having fun playing it after two years, though.

Jsmalls

I'll chime in.

So I've been a Breton Magicka Sorc since the beginning, lots of things have fluctuated update to update, and our "strength" has definitely been "lowered". It's much harder to burst on a Sorc nowadays because all magicka characters run harness or dampen, and all stamina characters run evasion and can dodge roll very effectively. And unfortunately for us some of our main dps skills for PvP (frags, pulse, endless, and weaving) are all projectiles that can be reflected, cloaked or dodged (passively or physically). Aaaand that's extremely frustrating as a Sorc to see a large majority of your abilities not hit.

I have my Breton Sorc at a point where I can make him magicka or stamina at will. And I like to play as a Stamina Sorc on and off this update because Stamina is definitely meta this update. The damage they can put down is unbelievable, and it's all immediate. No projectile travel time, it's just instant punishing damage. And their executes? Oh man is Reverse slice OP right now, and let's not even get started on poison injection. And I'm experiencing all of this raw damage on a magicka race, couldn't even imagine how strong this character would be otherwise. Stamina is just in a really strong point in this update.

Hell can't imagine leveling up a Stamblade, knowing all the tools in their arsenal.

All in all, Magicka Sorcs are playable and are still a threat, but not as much anymore to experienced players. In comparison to other classes their arsenal just isn't as threatening, and are very easy to manage.

Izaki

Un-nerf Streak and buff Ball Of Lightning. Sorcs were meant to be the most mobile class, they are the only ones with a teleport skill that is not a gap closer. So now we can pretty much Bolt away once and then camp in their mines, which in my opinion has always been suicide.
- Mines are a niche skill and cost way too much for what they are, look at Beast Trap AKA one of the best DPS skills in-game.
- Encase is stupid because of its small area of effect and its pretty much the crap version of Talons.
- Rune Prison is pretty interesting, but you're handing out free CC immunity with both morphs given the amount of stam players out there.
- Mages Fury is a JOKE of an execute. The worst one in the game to be fair. Look at Impale/Jesus Beam/Reverse Slice, hell even Poison Injection is a better execute. "Yeah but sorcs get Implosion" yeah we do at 15% health.
- Lightning Form is a good skill. Well no, Hurricane is amazing and Boundless Storm is almost decent. I slot it just cause there ain't nothing better. But by design its a very good skill, just the damage is really too low to even be taken into account.
- Liquid Lightning is awesome. The other morphs sucks.
- Surge is AMAZING. Don't even need shields in PvE now. Too bad the class only has 2 DoTs... That are unusable in PvP.
- Bolt Escape... As above...
- Daedric Curse can be purged. And no one even knows if its a DoT or not. Apparently doing damage after a period of time is not a DoT. If we could have some damage over time before the detonation (maybe damage that grows each 0.5 seconds until the explosion...)
- Pets should never have existed, I know some people like them, but lets be honest : they are bad. They need to change/disappear.
- Bound Armor gives as much magicka as NB's Siphonning PASSIVE. I think you get my point. Its underwhelming.
- Shields : the duration doesn't bug me. But Dampen Magicka blows Hardened Ward out of the ground. Would you take a 16k + 42% or a 16k + 33% shield ?
- Overload is the reason sorcs are amazing in vMSA. Its also the reason why they underperform every where else (Trials/PvP)
- No comment on negate.
- Storm Atronach is bad. Its just bad.

I love my sorc, but I'm an Overload bot now... Elegance + Moondancer + Kena for vMSA/4-mans... Elegance + Seducer + Kena for PvP...

Lord-Stien

Magic sorc is still a good class... but the main hinderance to us is that ALL of our abilities are dodgeible..

I.E. Our bread and butter abilities... Crystal Frag, Mages wrath, Velouses Curse,

after a week of game play i recorded all of my cast 89% missed..
And that is casting after the target has roll dodged..

Flame staff... worthless
Ice staff......ok
Lighting staff.... A MUST HAVE..

Healing staff.. ok for magica regen

and now for tthe ultamates..

Negate... dodgeible and the DOT's
Overload. dodgeible
Summon Attronnock only good for choke points...


on your average fight... for a magic sorc you have a VERY small window to get off your abilities and hope... due to server lag the you are not being mislead the the targets roll dodge count.


Also since the server lag .... a lot ..... ( looking at you ZOS) Most sorc's have to root spam there target. to make sure that their targets have Dodge fatigue and most of their attacks will land... but if you are in range to root your target... you are in range for them to bowtard you to death or 2 hand spam you to death....

Most magic sorcs i play with .... stay in the back.... apply curses... ( If they even land) and spam mages wrath when the target is in 20% range...



unless you get really luck and run into someone how dose not rolldodge and or shuffle stack... you are on an almost even footing with them... unless they gap close you to death aswell...... then your kinda screwed.

But this is only my opion after 2.5 years as a magica sorc.

Master_Kas

#RevertStreaknerf

Streak was never a real issue (except perhaps back when you could streak with scrolls ) and gapclosers got no cost increase, so why should streak?

It's like ZOS don't want anyone to kite or being able to stay ranged sadly. Sorc was more fun to play at launch (was a non max level scrub) but it was the second most fun class to play with the mobility it once had :<

But these are the threads and suggestions that ZOS just ignores.

LegendaryMage

Master_Kas wrote: »

#RevertStreaknerf

Streak was never a real issue (except perhaps back when you could streak with scrolls ) and gapclosers got no cost increase, so why should streak?

It's like ZOS don't want anyone to kite or being able to stay ranged sadly. Sorc was more fun to play at launch (was a non max level scrub) but it was the second most fun class to play with the mobility it once had :<

But these are the threads and suggestions that ZOS just ignores.

I agree. The mobility is kinda there but then again not really. Gap closing onto a streaking sorc is as easy as it gets. So let's do a race then, no cost increase. If that's too much for zenimax, then at least remove penalty if you hit someone with it, it's an offensive morph and using it in battle shouldn't increase it's cost.

KenaPKK

@Lord-Stien I love my sorc precisely because so little of my damage has a travel time or can be roll dodged. Try playing a staff mageblade for a bit if you think sorcs have it hard... Swallow Soul, Assassin's Will, and Impale is a far inferior burst combo to Crushing Shock, Curse, Frag, and Fury explosion. Applying Curse and Fury to the enemy is half the damage and easy as pie.

sorc now.