Turn down the auto ban system

asneakybanana

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel The auto ban system is penalizing players for being at the top of their game and completing content too fast. How is this at all logical? I know many people who have never and will never hack the game yet they have been banned for "speed hacks" presumably in vMA as its mainly people posting fast runs. How can you at all justify the auto ban system when its detecting innocents and people who actually cheated are roaming around? The auto ban system is just a lazy implementation that puts caps on what zos "thinks is possible" even though they have no clue whats actually possible in their game. Auto ban should be used as a temporary solution where its only tagging the people who are being extremely obvious such as flying or perma ult or extreme stat modification and while that is in place they should be working on adding a fix that doesnt revolve around banning people and instead revolves around actually fixing the hacks.

thisisScoMan

Git bad.

Function

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

GivvumBoane

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

Yeah....What he said.

Elsonso

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

kevlarto_ESO

Don't believe everything people tell you, I see cheaters still in the game everyday, so the auto detect is still not doing everything it needs to yet, I know it is a hassle if you were not cheating and get banned, and as they tweak the auto detect things will happen, I hope they tighten up the auto detect even more and get rid of the cheaters that are ruining the game. Unfortunately there was a great deal more cheating going on that anyone wants to admit, after the CE came to light the game play was night and day, it is easy to spot them in game now.

Nifty2g

lordrichter wrote: »

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

Rethink your post, the person banned has videos of all his runs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpcaA9WDGXI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK-ziEoc3Pw

Elsonso

Nifty2g wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

Rethink your post, the person banned has videos of all his runs

I stand by what I said.

Reason: I don't know these people. The evidence they present can be done so in a manner that hides that they are cheating.

Personofsecrets

lordrichter wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

Rethink your post, the person banned has videos of all his runs

I stand by what I said.

Reason: I don't know these people. The evidence they present can be done so in a manner that hides that they are cheating.

"Face when all runs must be cheat runs unless there is a video of them.

By the way, even if there was a video of any run, it isn't like someone who doesn't want to be convinced of a leader board score would suddenly become convinced of that scores legitimacy. They would be likely to just push the goal posts further away.

"Well, maybe you showed me a whole vMA run, but you didn't also record all of your computer processes to show me you were not cheating."

"Well maybe you recorded all of your computer processes to, but you could have just forged the recording."

"Well maybe some other outlandish thing because I don't actually want to believe you to be an authority so I wont despite the clear evidence.""

Phinix1

lordrichter wrote: »

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

This 100%.

ZOS has a full logging system. If you were legit banned for no reason an appeal investigation would reveal that. I would suggest that if you are seriously a victim you appeal the ban.

Personally I don't buy it. When ONE person I know is wrongfully banned (and I know a lot being around since early access) then I might be more inclined to believe it.

Rohamad_Ali

I recommend not posting in these threads . I have seen a lot of people get forum banned just for insinuating someone banned is a cheater . Reversal of fortunes . These topics are heated on all sides and just lead to trouble . Avoid it .

Phinix1

@Roehamad_Ali Khajiit is wise. This one thanks Khajiit.

Nifty2g

lordrichter wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

Rethink your post, the person banned has videos of all his runs

I stand by what I said.

Reason: I don't know these people. The evidence they present can be done so in a manner that hides that they are cheating.

He's my friend, I'm often talking to him and talking about how to improve time, he has videos of all of his runs and everything.
The fact alone he has so much video evidence, this type of post is just ignorant.

Even that, @andy.s also got banned for the same reason, ZOS are targeting the top players now? They both post videos all over their youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D5NO3SwrzM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO1qjTxo9yI

Being competitive in this game is getting really pathetic that we have come to the point where you are required to post your videos and strategies or people view you as a cheater.

Also, read through this thread

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/274561/login-servers-down/p1

Phinix1 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

This 100%.

ZOS has a full logging system. If you were legit banned for no reason an appeal investigation would reveal that. I would suggest that if you are seriously a victim you appeal the ban.

Personally I don't buy it. When ONE person I know is wrongfully banned (and I know a lot being around since early access) then I might be more inclined to believe it.

Check the above video, that person was wrongfully banned for the same reason and it was reversed.

Nifty2g

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

I recommend not posting in these threads . I have seen a lot of people get forum banned just for insinuating someone banned is a cheater . Reversal of fortunes . These topics are heated on all sides and just lead to trouble . Avoid it .

If I have no proof of someone who was banned, I would not post. But if I know so well that someone was banned wrongfully to give them such a discredited and bad reputation who puts in a ton of work for the community, I'm going to say something because in my honest opinion that is just a very bad way to handle this situation on ZOS part.
And I'll take the forum ban if it means getting someone who was innocent unbanned.

SienneYviete

lordrichter wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

Rethink your post, the person banned has videos of all his runs

I stand by what I said.

Reason: I don't know these people. The evidence they present can be done so in a manner that hides that they are cheating.

SanTii.92

At this point is obvious that both Andy and now Jace were wrongfully banned, not only because we all have seen theirs scores improving week after week and we know who they are, but also because of the video evidence which IS , with no doubt, prove enough that they don't use a cheat engine to alter stats values. The numbers are right there all, over the video, anyone can test them by themselves and check if you can or can not reach those values. There is no possible way you have altered a stat which doesn't show up on the video.

On a side note, Jace who probably is the most damaged person by this whole cheat engine ordeal, who had the number one vMa player title usurped for over a month already, by whom was unnbanned by the way, was banned by the same system which was placed to help with that, is very well worth a mention at the very least.

Elsonso

.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

Rethink your post, the person banned has videos of all his runs

I stand by what I said.

Reason: I don't know these people. The evidence they present can be done so in a manner that hides that they are cheating.

"Face when all runs must be cheat runs unless there is a video of them.

By the way, even if there was a video of any run, it isn't like someone who doesn't want to be convinced of a leader board score would suddenly become convinced of that scores legitimacy. They would be likely to just push the goal posts further away.

"Well, maybe you showed me a whole vMA run, but you didn't also record all of your computer processes to show me you were not cheating."

"Well maybe you recorded all of your computer processes to, but you could have just forged the recording."

"Well maybe some other outlandish thing because I don't actually want to believe you to be an authority so I wont despite the clear evidence.""

I make no statement about whether the people the OP is referring to are cheating or not.

What some might call "clear evidence", I call anecdotal evidence because it can be cherry picked. Not that it is, or isn't, cherry picked. It can be. There is no way for the player to conclusively prove they were not cheating. Just because they show evidence that they were not cheating at a particular time does not prove what they were doing at other times.

We don't get to see what ZOS sees and the burden of proof lies with them. They are the only ones that can prove that the player was cheating at a particular time. Without this information, which ZOS will never provide, no one can really be sure whether the player claiming innocence can be trusted to present their own evidence fairly and honestly.

It is for that reason that I cannot trust what they say. It has nothing to do with me wanting them to be guilty or innocent.

SanTii.92

lordrichter wrote: »

.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

Rethink your post, the person banned has videos of all his runs

I stand by what I said.

Reason: I don't know these people. The evidence they present can be done so in a manner that hides that they are cheating.

"Face when all runs must be cheat runs unless there is a video of them.

By the way, even if there was a video of any run, it isn't like someone who doesn't want to be convinced of a leader board score would suddenly become convinced of that scores legitimacy. They would be likely to just push the goal posts further away.

"Well, maybe you showed me a whole vMA run, but you didn't also record all of your computer processes to show me you were not cheating."

"Well maybe you recorded all of your computer processes to, but you could have just forged the recording."

"Well maybe some other outlandish thing because I don't actually want to believe you to be an authority so I wont despite the clear evidence.""

I make no statement about whether the people the OP is referring to are cheating or not.

What some might call "clear evidence", I call anecdotal evidence because it can be cherry picked. Not that it is, or isn't, cherry picked. It can be. There is no way for the player to conclusively prove they were not cheating. Just because they show evidence that they were not cheating at a particular time does not prove what they were doing at other times.

We don't get to see what ZOS sees and the burden of proof lies with them. They are the only ones that can prove that the player was cheating at a particular time. Without this information, which ZOS will never provide, no one can really be sure whether the player claiming innocence can be trusted to present their own evidence fairly and honestly.

It is for that reason that I cannot trust what they say. It has nothing to do with me wanting them to be guilty or innocent.

False. You can test by yourself every possibly edited stat shown on the video already provided if you are committed enough.

Rohamad_Ali

Nifty2g wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

I recommend not posting in these threads . I have seen a lot of people get forum banned just for insinuating someone banned is a cheater . Reversal of fortunes . These topics are heated on all sides and just lead to trouble . Avoid it .

If I have no proof of someone who was banned, I would not post. But if I know so well that someone was banned wrongfully to give them such a discredited and bad reputation who puts in a ton of work for the community, I'm going to say something because in my honest opinion that is just a very bad way to handle this situation on ZOS part.
And I'll take the forum ban if it means getting someone who was innocent unbanned.

I understand . I don't know the details , only the player and ZOS do . Maybe some friends have some insight as well . Of course this is where the appeal system through email is the only option to settle it .

Nifty2g

sAnn92 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

Rethink your post, the person banned has videos of all his runs

I stand by what I said.

Reason: I don't know these people. The evidence they present can be done so in a manner that hides that they are cheating.

"Face when all runs must be cheat runs unless there is a video of them.

By the way, even if there was a video of any run, it isn't like someone who doesn't want to be convinced of a leader board score would suddenly become convinced of that scores legitimacy. They would be likely to just push the goal posts further away.

"Well, maybe you showed me a whole vMA run, but you didn't also record all of your computer processes to show me you were not cheating."

"Well maybe you recorded all of your computer processes to, but you could have just forged the recording."

"Well maybe some other outlandish thing because I don't actually want to believe you to be an authority so I wont despite the clear evidence.""

I make no statement about whether the people the OP is referring to are cheating or not.

What some might call "clear evidence", I call anecdotal evidence because it can be cherry picked. Not that it is, or isn't, cherry picked. It can be. There is no way for the player to conclusively prove they were not cheating. Just because they show evidence that they were not cheating at a particular time does not prove what they were doing at other times.

We don't get to see what ZOS sees and the burden of proof lies with them. They are the only ones that can prove that the player was cheating at a particular time. Without this information, which ZOS will never provide, no one can really be sure whether the player claiming innocence can be trusted to present their own evidence fairly and honestly.

It is for that reason that I cannot trust what they say. It has nothing to do with me wanting them to be guilty or innocent.

False. You can test by yourself every possibly edited stat shown on the video already provided if you are committed enough.

Easy, Jace gives his champion point allocation out a lot
2pc kena, 5pc julianos, 3pc willpower, maelstrom precise staff

go wack a mob and youll see the same numbers.

if there was no addons tracking damage etc and hiding a bunch of stuff, i'd be pretty suspicious

Ackwalan

Every ban should be reviewed by a person that understands the game. On the other hand, lots of cheaters claim, they didn't do anything. Keep the ban system going.

Loralai_907

I'm all for appropriate bans. People who really do cheat should be gone forever, but I don't think that is the company policy. -_-

Smileybones

You people cried rivers because ZOS wasn't addressing cheaters and now you cry rivers because they are addressing cheaters.

Sigh.

Totalitarian

After running a few dungeons with some of these people, I can say that they have the skill to clear stuff really quickly and not be cheating.

For example, here's @Function and some others and I running Vet Spindle when I encountered them during a PUG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMgKB8oVjng

Ignoring my low-dps healing (I've improved a ton since then), they're producing some really good DPS. And as far as I can tell, it's legit.


I don't know a good, concrete solution short of creating exceptions for the auto-ban system, though.

I have faith that ZOS will be able to resolve this issue, and hopefully in a timely manner.

Chori

Except, you dont get to know which run they banned them for.

You dont get to know if they hacked or not in another run, you dont get to know if they only hacked on the last stage to farm weapons too, for example.

Logs are logs people, logs dont effing lie, so unless an individual with bad reading is making the decisions and you believe you are still wrongfully banned, appeal to support.

Ackwalan

Totalitarian wrote: »

After running a few dungeons with some of these people, I can say that they have the skill to clear stuff really quickly and not be cheating.

For example, here's @Function and some others and I running Vet Spindle when I encountered them during a PUG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMgKB8oVjng

Ignoring my low-dps healing (I've improved a ton since then), they're producing some really good DPS. And as far as I can tell, it's legit.


I don't know a good, concrete solution short of creating exceptions for the auto-ban system, though.

I have faith that ZOS will be able to resolve this issue, and hopefully in a timely manner.

That's just it. You can't tell if they are cheating or good. In fact the really good cheaters are very hard to catch. And they all claim innocence.

Nifty2g

Smileybones wrote: »

You people cried rivers because ZOS wasn't addressing cheaters and now you cry rivers because they are addressing cheaters.

Sigh.

This is not addressing cheaters.

Rohamad_Ali

I'm aware of several people perma banned recently . After hearing them talk about using a program to slightly boost their stats and say it was no big deal and they should be given a second chance , I was shocked . Not at the behavior , but that ZOS actually caught them even slightly boosting . I was happy . I was also shocked that people I thought were legit players were doing this . They said it was the only way to compete because the other factions were doing it . Again , not shocked at the mind set , just shocked at how many people where doing this . They petition for there accounts back admitting no wrong doing . Even before telling the truth to myself . They would of swore up and down on a stack of holy relics to get their account back . What a shame .

I haven't pvpd since that day . Wasn't interested in playing with people that might still have people cheating . This has nothing to do with the OP's case , I just wanted to state aim happy ZOS is finally catching even slight CE users . I don't want them to turn anything down . I want this to go away . Even if it means losing some bad companions along the way .

Again , nothing to do with OP or anyone in this thread , just the anti cheat system .

Nifty2g

Ackwalan wrote: »

Totalitarian wrote: »

After running a few dungeons with some of these people, I can say that they have the skill to clear stuff really quickly and not be cheating.

For example, here's @Function and some others and I running Vet Spindle when I encountered them during a PUG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMgKB8oVjng

Ignoring my low-dps healing (I've improved a ton since then), they're producing some really good DPS. And as far as I can tell, it's legit.


I don't know a good, concrete solution short of creating exceptions for the auto-ban system, though.

I have faith that ZOS will be able to resolve this issue, and hopefully in a timely manner.

That's just it. You can't tell if they are cheating or good. In fact the really good cheaters are very hard to catch. And they all claim innocence.

I have a lost of faith in this community to see what people are coming to. Jace is probably the most legit player. The evidence of progression, the evidence of clearing and coming up with strategies are all there, most videos are unlisted but I'm sure he will post them if needed to.

But what is disappointing is now Zenimax has ruined all reputation Jace has had, as he is just now going to be seen as a cheater/hacker no matter what. It's a shame what the witch hunt and damage this has caused for the community, it's turned everyone toxic and against each other rather than supporting each other from such obvious false claims. And even more so now the "elite" players are just getting targeted non stop.

I really hope Zenimax start addressing things properly instead of just causing constant issues within the community, it's disappointing and just causing constant damage.

Function

This thread saddens me, Jace and Andy were both clearly misbanned but people still think the worst even with their proof. What if this happened to you?

LegacyDM

asneakybanana wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel The auto ban system is penalizing players for being at the top of their game and completing content too fast. How is this at all logical? I know many people who have never and will never hack the game yet they have been banned for "speed hacks" presumably in vMA as its mainly people posting fast runs. How can you at all justify the auto ban system when its detecting innocents and people who actually cheated are roaming around? The auto ban system is just a lazy implementation that puts caps on what zos "thinks is possible" even though they have no clue whats actually possible in their game. Auto ban should be used as a temporary solution where its only tagging the people who are being extremely obvious such as flying or perma ult or extreme stat modification and while that is in place they should be working on adding a fix that doesnt revolve around banning people and instead revolves around actually fixing the hacks.

sAnn92 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

Rethink your post, the person banned has videos of all his runs

I stand by what I said.

Reason: I don't know these people. The evidence they present can be done so in a manner that hides that they are cheating.

"Face when all runs must be cheat runs unless there is a video of them.

By the way, even if there was a video of any run, it isn't like someone who doesn't want to be convinced of a leader board score would suddenly become convinced of that scores legitimacy. They would be likely to just push the goal posts further away.

"Well, maybe you showed me a whole vMA run, but you didn't also record all of your computer processes to show me you were not cheating."

"Well maybe you recorded all of your computer processes to, but you could have just forged the recording."

"Well maybe some other outlandish thing because I don't actually want to believe you to be an authority so I wont despite the clear evidence.""

I make no statement about whether the people the OP is referring to are cheating or not.

What some might call "clear evidence", I call anecdotal evidence because it can be cherry picked. Not that it is, or isn't, cherry picked. It can be. There is no way for the player to conclusively prove they were not cheating. Just because they show evidence that they were not cheating at a particular time does not prove what they were doing at other times.

We don't get to see what ZOS sees and the burden of proof lies with them. They are the only ones that can prove that the player was cheating at a particular time. Without this information, which ZOS will never provide, no one can really be sure whether the player claiming innocence can be trusted to present their own evidence fairly and honestly.

It is for that reason that I cannot trust what they say. It has nothing to do with me wanting them to be guilty or innocent.

False. You can test by yourself every possibly edited stat shown on the video already provided if you are committed enough.

How can you be certain 100% without a shadow of a doubt these people were banned for speed hacking vma? These guys can post videos all day long and it's meaningless if that's not why they were banned.did Zos inform them that they were banned due to vma? I'd be interested to know.