Turn down the auto ban system

Phinix1

Bromburak wrote: »

...certain skills, your timing and possible lags at the "right moment" decide if you are getting banned...

Sounds highly dubious to me.

Appeal the ban with the support process available. Wait for them to do an investigation. If you are innocent, get unbanned. Simple.

Nothing is accomplished by posting about disciplinary actions on the forum other than to try and whip the community into a fervor without the possibility of actual evidence, which is destructive not constructive.

This thread should be locked.

Personofsecrets

Phinix1 wrote: »

andy.s wrote: »

Unfortunately, this topic won't be ever answered by ZOS, because they trust their software.

Hope you are unbanned if you are innocent.

Let's just all hope that something goes right. Let's hope that we don't get targeted next.

andy_s

Phinix1 wrote: »

andy.s wrote: »

Unfortunately, this topic won't be ever answered by ZOS, because they trust their software.

Like I said, follow the appeal process. If you were legit banned with no reason you have nothing to fear. They will do an investigation and unban you.

Posting on the forums about disciplinary actions is against the TOS. Not sure why you would expect them to respond here as opposed to following the support process available to you.

Hope you are unbanned if you are innocent.

My account only was suspended for 72 hours on Friday too right before the weekends. And there were no people who could investigate it, there were only automated responses. Then no responses at all. I wish you good luck and don't experience it yourself.

Also I disagree about posting on forums about this issue. People should see how real hackers are freely playing the game with their "hardly" earned MSA weapons, and ZOS don't do anything about it. Instead they are busy with their amazing anti cheat system which can detect cheaters... But what's the point if all cheaters continue to play and to have all the stuff they got by cheating?

GivvumBoane

Phinix1 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

And why would we assume that the same people who review logs carefully enough to unban known cheaters would be able to correctly identify who is and who isn't cheating? We have no way of knowing that ZOS will correctly deal with every case, but we have every reason to believe that there will be cases that are dealt with in an unsatisfactory way.

For just that reason, because we don't know. We DO know they log everything. The evidence IS there. People that were flagged as false-positives DO get unbanned. We DO know that much.

Occam's Razor dictates the simplest explanation tends to be the right one. I tend to assume either some people get flagged as false positives which happens even with world class antivirus programs like Norton and McAfee, and will be unbanned after appeal like others, or that they actually were cheating.

I don't think it is very rational to automatically assume that ZOS has some personal Dr. Evil agenda to maliciously ban "top performers" without cause, no.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

It's ok that an innocent person occasionally gets wrongfully convicted. That's what I got from this.

False positives happen. No security software in the world is free of them. Sorry if that is confusing to you.

Of course, false positives happen. But saying you would rather occasional people be banned by mistake as opposed to a casual stance on the matter is like using a shotgun to kill a fly. You launch a pile of projectiles at the fly, maybe kill a couple other bugs in the process, and still miss the fly. I am not confused. I'm sure you wouldn't be ok with it if you were one of the people mistakenly banned.

Bromburak

Phinix1 wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

...certain skills, your timing and possible lags at the "right moment" decide if you are getting banned...

Sounds highly dubious to me.

Appeal the ban with the support process available. Wait for them to do an investigation. If you are innocent, get unbanned. Simple.

Nothing is accomplished by posting about disciplinary actions on the forum other than to try and whip the community into a fervor without the possibility of actual evidence, which is destructive not constructive.

What is your contribution, you might should start being constructive instead being ignorant in this matter.
You have no clue what is going on didn't follow corresponding threads regarding cheating and exploits , VMA , speed etc..

Did you help to find bugs that trigger the cheat detection tool and send them to ZOS, did you participate on constructive discussions that are dealing with the problems that would help false positives customers on a long run, did you actually do anything that tries to find solutions to improve this game as member of this community? Imo you are one of the most ignorant consumers out there that doesn't care about anything as long you don't run into a problem by your self.

False positives happen.

But you obviously don't care about them as long it's not you ...

SanTii.92

andy.s wrote: »

So... 'German is freely playing in Cyrodiil with his maelstrom staff he got for his hacked 597k runs, while Jace is being banned? Seems legit lol.

This is outrageous, truly.

NovaShadow

Turn it up.

The amount of people still cheating/hacking is stupidly ridiculous. Clearly the current set up isn't catching them.

Bromburak

LegacyDM wrote: »

Function wrote: »

This thread saddens me, Jace and Andy were both clearly misbanned but people still think the worst even with their proof. What if this happened to you?

Sure but maybe people aren't getting banned for speed running vma. Maybe people are getting banned for gold farm buying, running bots, Or finding duping exploits. Not saying these individuals did any of that and quite possibly were wrongfully banned. However, before jumping to conclusion about people innocently getting banned based on videos there maybe other reasons that a video doesn't show.

Very simple, then the suggestion for a ban is not coming from a buggy cheat detection tool the decision was made by staff analyzing in detail what happened.

The cheat detection tool temp bans everyone for 72 hours (internally it's a suggestion for further investigation) but not every case is being investigated in detail by staff ... On one hand we have false positives without knowing the exact trigger so it can happen to anyone and on the other hand we have real speed hackers that come away because not every temp ban is analyzed in detail by staff.

ZOS simply has a man power issue to analyze all incoming cheater cases including suggestions by cheat detection tool and reports by players. That's why we always will have false positives and cheaters that come away.

Hashtag_

lordrichter wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

Rethink your post, the person banned has videos of all his runs

I stand by what I said.

Reason: I don't know these people. The evidence they present can be done so in a manner that hides that they are cheating.

Do you know the people at ZOS in charge of the ban system? Do you have evidence these people were cheating? How can you make these assumptions about the banned but not about the banners?

asneakybanana

Hashtag_ wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

Rethink your post, the person banned has videos of all his runs

I stand by what I said.

Reason: I don't know these people. The evidence they present can be done so in a manner that hides that they are cheating.

Do you know the people at ZOS in charge of the ban system? Do you have evidence these people were cheating? How can you make these assumptions about the banned but not about the banners?

Totally agree with that. ZoS isnt doing an innocent until proven guilty type judgement they are doing a guilty until proven innocent which is absolutely wrong and should be reviewed.

Wollust

Well. ZoS is getting rid of hardcore players which don't exist to begin with in this game according to Firor.

For one casual Tamriel!

Sunburnt_Penguin

Fun fun fun on the autobahn

Phinix1

Bromburak wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

...certain skills, your timing and possible lags at the "right moment" decide if you are getting banned...

Sounds highly dubious to me.

Appeal the ban with the support process available. Wait for them to do an investigation. If you are innocent, get unbanned. Simple.

Nothing is accomplished by posting about disciplinary actions on the forum other than to try and whip the community into a fervor without the possibility of actual evidence, which is destructive not constructive.

What is your contribution, you might should start being constructive instead being ignorant in this matter.
You have no clue what is going on didn't follow corresponding threads regarding cheating and exploits , VMA , speed etc..

Did you help to find bugs that trigger the cheat detection tool and send them to ZOS, did you participate on constructive discussions that are dealing with the problems that would help false positives customers on a long run, did you actually do anything that tries to find solutions to improve this game as member of this community? Imo you are one of the most ignorant consumers out there that doesn't care about anything as long you don't run into a problem by your self.

False positives happen.

But you obviously don't care about them as long it's not you ...

Resorting to base insults just because someone doesn't share your conclusions is never constructive.

Never mind my signature. Writing and developing some of the most popular addons for the game clearly offers nothing. One of the most ignorant customers, clearly.

Oh, and all that time I spend freely on the PTS testing and sending feedback? Didn't happen. Clearly you know for a fact I have done nothing to help provide ZOS with feedback for the anti-cheat engine, so that must have just been a dream.

Whatever your position on this, there is no evidence publicly so this thread is pointless, and you going off the rails and insulting someone for not jumping on the "let's all bash ZOS" bandwagon doesn't really help your argument.

Phinix1

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

And why would we assume that the same people who review logs carefully enough to unban known cheaters would be able to correctly identify who is and who isn't cheating? We have no way of knowing that ZOS will correctly deal with every case, but we have every reason to believe that there will be cases that are dealt with in an unsatisfactory way.

For just that reason, because we don't know. We DO know they log everything. The evidence IS there. People that were flagged as false-positives DO get unbanned. We DO know that much.

Occam's Razor dictates the simplest explanation tends to be the right one. I tend to assume either some people get flagged as false positives which happens even with world class antivirus programs like Norton and McAfee, and will be unbanned after appeal like others, or that they actually were cheating.

I don't think it is very rational to automatically assume that ZOS has some personal Dr. Evil agenda to maliciously ban "top performers" without cause, no.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

It's ok that an innocent person occasionally gets wrongfully convicted. That's what I got from this.

False positives happen. No security software in the world is free of them. Sorry if that is confusing to you.

Of course, false positives happen. But saying you would rather occasional people be banned by mistake as opposed to a casual stance on the matter is like using a shotgun to kill a fly. You launch a pile of projectiles at the fly, maybe kill a couple other bugs in the process, and still miss the fly. I am not confused. I'm sure you wouldn't be ok with it if you were one of the people mistakenly banned.

But the problem is hardly akin to a fly so the analogy is flawed. It is more like a plague of locusts where 1 in 5 people in PVP are blatantly resource hacking with cheat engine.

Then take Feng Rush's video where he points out how people are being smart about it, only hacking a LITTLE more resource regen, a LITTLE more ultimate, thinking they will fly under the radar of the detection if they blame it on "weird badly timed lag" or whatever I read earlier. It is a HUGE problem that is destroying the game for honorable customers and ZOS is right to come down hard.

I am sure I will be the target of some petty mass-report campaign just for having the integrity to point out that bashing ZOS when there is no actual evidence presented here is inappropriate, since I'm not about to hide my account name in my sig just because people can't take different points of view with a grain of salt and need to make people their mortal enemy as if I was attacking them or something.

I mean did you read that hateful vitriol spewed at me a couple posts back? Seriously, like wow.

If people want to stoop to that level just because they can't take someone disagreeing with them, oh well. I mean never mind all the work on addons I do for these people.

Egonieser

Another "speed hacking" wave? Grief.... Luckily I've not been flagged down this time, but then again, I've not dared to even log my StamSorc since the last incident, not until this farce is sorted out. Shame too, I was really enjoying Fengrush's Supernaut build too, but I guess super-speed+gapcloser+massive latency+ half-assed detection system does not a good game make.

GG ZoS, GG once more, your incompetence pot is growing fuller each passing day.
I feel for those who were legitimately affected, again...

P.S.
Is it just me or has this happened on Friday, again? Where people cannot appeal because nobody is in the office and by the time they come back, their suspension will be lifted anyway without any review and closed.

Where do these people take their "Tw@" lessons? My patience with this company is slowly coming to an end...

P.P.S.
And no, you can't have my stuff

Phinix1

It really does amaze me how people come on threads like this, skim one or two posts, become totally convinced that ZOS is incompetently banning people for using Major Expedition, and proceed to jab insults at them like it was now established fact what is happening, carved in stone, no evidence required.

SanTii.92

Phinix1 wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

So you are saying those who have legitimately documented their biggest prowesses might have triggered the anti-cheat system doing what? Speed hacking to get more flowers?

The problem here is making the assumption that it MUST be their youtube prowess that got them banned. That is a completely baseless assumption born of one's on personal bias.

The fact is we have NO KNOWLEDGE of why they were banned. They could be posting legit videos on their "prowess" at one moment, then firing up their cheat engine in the next to get some lols in Cyrodiil "off the record."

There is no way we could know, so assuming either way is pointless. That is what I'm saying. Let them appeal, let ZOS investigate the logs. But don't come on the forums and start a conspiracy theory about ZOS auto-banning skilled people without any evidence.

It just serves no constructive purpose.

You are right, we couldn't be certain of that but considering some false positives have been triggered on similar situations is not a risky assumption at all to say that's what's probably happening here again.

So here is the purpose, raise awerness to the community that the system is not accurate enough before more and more legitimate players' reputation gets tainted and to Zos, who has to know that the system is indeed not good enough, and that we still are waiting for some answers about certain unbanned players.

GivvumBoane

Phinix1 wrote: »

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

And why would we assume that the same people who review logs carefully enough to unban known cheaters would be able to correctly identify who is and who isn't cheating? We have no way of knowing that ZOS will correctly deal with every case, but we have every reason to believe that there will be cases that are dealt with in an unsatisfactory way.

For just that reason, because we don't know. We DO know they log everything. The evidence IS there. People that were flagged as false-positives DO get unbanned. We DO know that much.

Occam's Razor dictates the simplest explanation tends to be the right one. I tend to assume either some people get flagged as false positives which happens even with world class antivirus programs like Norton and McAfee, and will be unbanned after appeal like others, or that they actually were cheating.

I don't think it is very rational to automatically assume that ZOS has some personal Dr. Evil agenda to maliciously ban "top performers" without cause, no.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

It's ok that an innocent person occasionally gets wrongfully convicted. That's what I got from this.

False positives happen. No security software in the world is free of them. Sorry if that is confusing to you.

Of course, false positives happen. But saying you would rather occasional people be banned by mistake as opposed to a casual stance on the matter is like using a shotgun to kill a fly. You launch a pile of projectiles at the fly, maybe kill a couple other bugs in the process, and still miss the fly. I am not confused. I'm sure you wouldn't be ok with it if you were one of the people mistakenly banned.

But the problem is hardly akin to a fly so the analogy is flawed. It is more like a plague of locusts where 1 in 5 people in PVP are blatantly resource hacking with cheat engine.

Then take Feng Rush's video where he points out how people are being smart about it, only hacking a LITTLE more resource regen, a LITTLE more ultimate, thinking they will fly under the radar of the detection if they blame it on "weird badly timed lag" or whatever I read earlier. It is a HUGE problem that is destroying the game for honorable customers and ZOS is right to come down hard.

I am sure I will be the target of some petty mass-report campaign just for having the integrity to point out that bashing ZOS when there is no actual evidence presented here is inappropriate, since I'm not about to hide my account name in my sig just because people can't take different points of view with a grain of salt and need to make people their mortal enemy as if I was attacking them or something.

I mean did you read that hateful vitriol spewed at me a couple posts back? Seriously, like wow.

If people want to stoop to that level just because they can't take someone disagreeing with them, oh well. I mean never mind all the work on addons I do for these people.

I agree cheaters should be punished harshly. But they need to tweak the system as not to cast a net so wide you catch the honest players too. If that is indeed what's happening. People can make all sorts of videos of honest runs and then cheat while not making a video. A few videos of legit runs is not evidence that every run is legit.

andy_s

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

And why would we assume that the same people who review logs carefully enough to unban known cheaters would be able to correctly identify who is and who isn't cheating? We have no way of knowing that ZOS will correctly deal with every case, but we have every reason to believe that there will be cases that are dealt with in an unsatisfactory way.

For just that reason, because we don't know. We DO know they log everything. The evidence IS there. People that were flagged as false-positives DO get unbanned. We DO know that much.

Occam's Razor dictates the simplest explanation tends to be the right one. I tend to assume either some people get flagged as false positives which happens even with world class antivirus programs like Norton and McAfee, and will be unbanned after appeal like others, or that they actually were cheating.

I don't think it is very rational to automatically assume that ZOS has some personal Dr. Evil agenda to maliciously ban "top performers" without cause, no.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

It's ok that an innocent person occasionally gets wrongfully convicted. That's what I got from this.

False positives happen. No security software in the world is free of them. Sorry if that is confusing to you.

Of course, false positives happen. But saying you would rather occasional people be banned by mistake as opposed to a casual stance on the matter is like using a shotgun to kill a fly. You launch a pile of projectiles at the fly, maybe kill a couple other bugs in the process, and still miss the fly. I am not confused. I'm sure you wouldn't be ok with it if you were one of the people mistakenly banned.

But the problem is hardly akin to a fly so the analogy is flawed. It is more like a plague of locusts where 1 in 5 people in PVP are blatantly resource hacking with cheat engine.

Then take Feng Rush's video where he points out how people are being smart about it, only hacking a LITTLE more resource regen, a LITTLE more ultimate, thinking they will fly under the radar of the detection if they blame it on "weird badly timed lag" or whatever I read earlier. It is a HUGE problem that is destroying the game for honorable customers and ZOS is right to come down hard.

I am sure I will be the target of some petty mass-report campaign just for having the integrity to point out that bashing ZOS when there is no actual evidence presented here is inappropriate, since I'm not about to hide my account name in my sig just because people can't take different points of view with a grain of salt and need to make people their mortal enemy as if I was attacking them or something.

I mean did you read that hateful vitriol spewed at me a couple posts back? Seriously, like wow.

If people want to stoop to that level just because they can't take someone disagreeing with them, oh well. I mean never mind all the work on addons I do for these people.

I agree cheaters should be punished harshly. But they need to tweak the system as not to cast a net so wide you catch the honest players too. If that is indeed what's happening. People can make all sorts of videos of honest runs and then cheat while not making a video. A few videos of legit runs is not evidence that every run is legit.

damn you are so right, I think that all top-100 VMA scores are done with cheats, and since I'm the only one who has all my best runs recorded and published, I demand to remove all scores from leaderboards but mine until I get 100% evidence they all are legit.

GivvumBoane

andy.s wrote: »

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

And why would we assume that the same people who review logs carefully enough to unban known cheaters would be able to correctly identify who is and who isn't cheating? We have no way of knowing that ZOS will correctly deal with every case, but we have every reason to believe that there will be cases that are dealt with in an unsatisfactory way.

For just that reason, because we don't know. We DO know they log everything. The evidence IS there. People that were flagged as false-positives DO get unbanned. We DO know that much.

Occam's Razor dictates the simplest explanation tends to be the right one. I tend to assume either some people get flagged as false positives which happens even with world class antivirus programs like Norton and McAfee, and will be unbanned after appeal like others, or that they actually were cheating.

I don't think it is very rational to automatically assume that ZOS has some personal Dr. Evil agenda to maliciously ban "top performers" without cause, no.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

It's ok that an innocent person occasionally gets wrongfully convicted. That's what I got from this.

False positives happen. No security software in the world is free of them. Sorry if that is confusing to you.

Of course, false positives happen. But saying you would rather occasional people be banned by mistake as opposed to a casual stance on the matter is like using a shotgun to kill a fly. You launch a pile of projectiles at the fly, maybe kill a couple other bugs in the process, and still miss the fly. I am not confused. I'm sure you wouldn't be ok with it if you were one of the people mistakenly banned.

But the problem is hardly akin to a fly so the analogy is flawed. It is more like a plague of locusts where 1 in 5 people in PVP are blatantly resource hacking with cheat engine.

Then take Feng Rush's video where he points out how people are being smart about it, only hacking a LITTLE more resource regen, a LITTLE more ultimate, thinking they will fly under the radar of the detection if they blame it on "weird badly timed lag" or whatever I read earlier. It is a HUGE problem that is destroying the game for honorable customers and ZOS is right to come down hard.

I am sure I will be the target of some petty mass-report campaign just for having the integrity to point out that bashing ZOS when there is no actual evidence presented here is inappropriate, since I'm not about to hide my account name in my sig just because people can't take different points of view with a grain of salt and need to make people their mortal enemy as if I was attacking them or something.

I mean did you read that hateful vitriol spewed at me a couple posts back? Seriously, like wow.

If people want to stoop to that level just because they can't take someone disagreeing with them, oh well. I mean never mind all the work on addons I do for these people.

I agree cheaters should be punished harshly. But they need to tweak the system as not to cast a net so wide you catch the honest players too. If that is indeed what's happening. People can make all sorts of videos of honest runs and then cheat while not making a video. A few videos of legit runs is not evidence that every run is legit.

damn you are so right, I think that all top-100 VMA scores are done with cheats, and since I'm the only one who has all my best runs recorded and published, I demand to remove all scores from leaderboards but mine until I get 100% evidence they all are legit.

Is my post the only one you read? Earlier posts stated a player banned for cheating was wrongfully banned because he has videos of his runs. I was simply stating the player could have cheated while not making a video.

Bucket666

When you watch vma videos and have finished vma with all classes (and with a stamina build) like i did you see those "innocence" proof videos with other eyes. There are a few great players where im pretty sure their video is fairplay. But especially one person cheats quite blatantly modifying his health regen values in the video and still screams around hes innocent while in theory everyone can see his dirty fingers. In short: dont defend people you dont know. They might be sociopathic liars.

Tandor

Firm action needs to be taken against cheaters and exploiters, and as for who's innocent and who's guilty I'll take a developer's data log or anti-cheat code over an unknown friend's commendation of someone else I don't know, or a potentially doctored video or screenshot that may in any event have no bearing on the reason for the ban any day of the week, just as long as there's an effective notification and appeal system for all account disciplinary matters.

andy_s

Tandor wrote: »

Firm action needs to be taken against cheaters and exploiters, and as for who's innocent and who's guilty I'll take a developer's data log over an unknown friend's commendation of someone else I don't know, or a potentially doctored video or screenshot that may in any event have no bearing on the reason for the ban any day of the week, just as long as there's an effective notification and appeal system for all account disciplinary matters.

Thanks for your opinion and contribution to the topic, even though you don't know anyone we are talking about and not aware of the situtation at all.

inb4 topic is closed again because it tuned unconstructive... but I don't know what @asneakybanana expected to see here

kevlarto_ESO

I don't cheat i only run one add on i am not a fan of them if i was ever to get banned for cheating i would put in one appeal and if not resolved uninstall game and move on gaming is a hobby for me and there are many more games out there, i would not lose any sleep over the matter.

Alcast

Conclusion of this thread:

- Innocent ppl getting banned
- Cheat Engine abusers getting unbanned

gf

Khamira

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

if you've watched their Dev gameplay some of these so called lead developers do stupid *** like spam executes on full health targets

EDIT:
And on about this whole CE issue, bans etc - I just stopped caring a while ago. That's just sad, probably sticking to quests is the best idea right now, you PROBABLY can't cheat there.

Rainteal

Phinix1 wrote: »

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

And why would we assume that the same people who review logs carefully enough to unban known cheaters would be able to correctly identify who is and who isn't cheating? We have no way of knowing that ZOS will correctly deal with every case, but we have every reason to believe that there will be cases that are dealt with in an unsatisfactory way.

For just that reason, because we don't know. We DO know they log everything. The evidence IS there. People that were flagged as false-positives DO get unbanned. We DO know that much.

Occam's Razor dictates the simplest explanation tends to be the right one. I tend to assume either some people get flagged as false positives which happens even with world class antivirus programs like Norton and McAfee, and will be unbanned after appeal like others, or that they actually were cheating.

I don't think it is very rational to automatically assume that ZOS has some personal Dr. Evil agenda to maliciously ban "top performers" without cause, no.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

It's ok that an innocent person occasionally gets wrongfully convicted. That's what I got from this.

False positives happen. No security software in the world is free of them. Sorry if that is confusing to you.

Of course, false positives happen. But saying you would rather occasional people be banned by mistake as opposed to a casual stance on the matter is like using a shotgun to kill a fly. You launch a pile of projectiles at the fly, maybe kill a couple other bugs in the process, and still miss the fly. I am not confused. I'm sure you wouldn't be ok with it if you were one of the people mistakenly banned.

But the problem is hardly akin to a fly so the analogy is flawed. It is more like a plague of locusts where 1 in 5 people in PVP are blatantly resource hacking with cheat engine.

Then take Feng Rush's video where he points out how people are being smart about it, only hacking a LITTLE more resource regen, a LITTLE more ultimate, thinking they will fly under the radar of the detection if they blame it on "weird badly timed lag" or whatever I read earlier. It is a HUGE problem that is destroying the game for honorable customers and ZOS is right to come down hard.

I am sure I will be the target of some petty mass-report campaign just for having the integrity to point out that bashing ZOS when there is no actual evidence presented here is inappropriate, since I'm not about to hide my account name in my sig just because people can't take different points of view with a grain of salt and need to make people their mortal enemy as if I was attacking them or something.

I mean did you read that hateful vitriol spewed at me a couple posts back? Seriously, like wow.

If people want to stoop to that level just because they can't take someone disagreeing with them, oh well. I mean never mind all the work on addons I do for these people.

1 in 5? Care to back up that claim with some data or facts?

Kalante

So ZoS are being cheap again instead of putting real life people to hunt hackers. "Hey lets put another system that does not work" First the lighting patch that made cyrodiil what it is today (full of lag) and now innocent people are getting banned by being too good at the game or by doing bugs that ZoS created themselves in the first place. Sad and inexcusable.

Dorander

asneakybanana wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

Rethink your post, the person banned has videos of all his runs

I stand by what I said.

Reason: I don't know these people. The evidence they present can be done so in a manner that hides that they are cheating.

Do you know the people at ZOS in charge of the ban system? Do you have evidence these people were cheating? How can you make these assumptions about the banned but not about the banners?

Totally agree with that. ZoS isnt doing an innocent until proven guilty type judgement they are doing a guilty until proven innocent which is absolutely wrong and should be reviewed.

Disregarding the fact that the auto-ban system makes mistakes (I don't think anyone in this entire thread seriously disagrees on that), ZOS is not adopting a guilty-until-proven innocent system, if they had, everyone'd be banned until we'd have passed some test that'd sufficiently prove to them we're not going to cheat. An obviously impossible system that does not exist.


The "innocent until proven guilty" phrase is only valid in typically constitutional (or similarly legally structured) countries, where people have rights and the executive office cannot violate these rights without evidence of crime. Barring the fact that you don't have those rights in an agreement with Zenimax (really, read the TOS and the EULA some time, the only real power you have is voting with your wallet), these constitutional legal systems generally also have the ability to detain criminals for a short time-span on suspicion of a crime, after which typically a court case follows, during which the suspect (depending on severity of crime and some other factors) is still held in custody, even though he is not proven guilty.

So you are wrong here in two different ways. The first is that you don't have the rights your expression is based on. The second is that even in places where you do have these rights, these places have legal systems very similar to what ZOS is using: temporary custody until a situation is investigated and ruled upon. And just like in real life criminal cases, the suspect has to defend himself.

Temporary bans suck, obviously. Being falsely accused sucks, obviously. However it's important to remember (for everyone on each side of this debate) that temporarily banned people under the auto-ban system are just suspects, they are not proven guilty.

Phinix1

Kalante wrote: »

So ZoS are being cheap again instead of putting real life people to hunt hackers. "Hey lets put another system that does not work" First the lighting patch that made cyrodiil what it is today (full of lag) and now innocent people are getting banned by being too good at the game or by doing bugs that ZoS created themselves in the first place. Sad and inexcusable.

OK, not sure if joking but...

The game has sold 7 MILLION BOXES. Granted, probably only 1 or 2 million are playing at the moment, but think about it. How many people do you think one employee can personally monitor in real-time? The math isn't difficult. The number of people that they would have to hire would cost so much that they would have to shut down the servers for lack of funding, even with $40 mount re-skins.

That's why NOBODY does this. They have automated anti-cheat systems and send in GM's for gross violations, and have people that handle appeal investigations, like everyone else in the industry.

The lighting patch had nothing to do with Cyrodiil performance, unless you were running on a potato. The issue with 1.5 was that they attempted to move a lot of the sanity checks server side to prevent client-side poisoning of the data, to avoid what people are doing with cheat engine now. The server hardware didn't have the clock cycles to handle it.

Please at least attempt to get your facts straight before jumping on the bash ZOS bandwagon.

Alcast wrote: »

Conclusion of this thread:

- Innocent ppl getting banned
- Cheat Engine abusers getting unbanned

gf

@Alcast ...

Man I have so much respect for you as a gamer. I have to assume this is tongue-in-cheek because I know you know better. No evidence was provided here, just another "my friend got banned let's 'raise awareness' by starting a torch and pitchfork bash ZOS mob" with hearsay evidence at best.

The real travesty here is those scumbags in the well known video blatantly hacking to "bring attention to the problem" flying around and chaining meteors. That at least one of them may have been let back in the game is absolutely DISGUSTING.

ZOS should have banned them, their payment method, and anyone with a 90% match on their DNA for life!

Shameful.