Turn down the auto ban system

Gilliamtherogue

The sheer ignorance from ZoS and even some of the community's part is baffling. People are so unaware of what end game play looks like that they immediately jump to conclusions when a skilled player is seen demolishing content (which most of this game's content is severely under tuned to begin with). The explosion of the CE recently has turned the community to a witch hunt that is rampant with misinformation and fear mongering.

That guy who just killed you in Cyrodiil, he could have been better, or you could simply just say he's using cheat engine and feel better.

That guy who beat your leaderboard score? Well he could have worked hard for it spending hours a week for months on end to get it, or you could tell yourself he simply cheated to feel better.

This is the trend that the community has turned to. Instead of investigating and having curiosities peaked by new performances, people immediately assume the worst and then begin hunting players they do not like or who have been falsely accused.

What's even worse is ZoS's complete and utter negligence of investigation. They implement a half effort detect system based on what THEY think can be done, (if you've watched their Dev gameplay some of these so called lead developers do stupid *** like spam executes on full health targets) and it immediately starts "working". ZoS continuously finds the easiest path with the least resistance when making fixes or changes, even if it isn't efficient or fully operational.

I personally know a lot of end game players who have been wrongly banned, and to see some people come here and say completely illogical stuff based on their personal knowledge is disappointing beyond belief. This game's community has always been passionate and has united to do some awesome stuff, but recently I have lost almost all faith in it as a whole.

There is no justification, no "for the greater good", nothing. Plenty of players who had been "perma" banned from obvious abuse of the CE are now walking around in game with nothing but a social slap on the wrist. That in itself completely nullifies the entire purpose of this detection system until you reevaluate your stance on dealing with the REAL exploiters.

Personofsecrets

lordrichter wrote: »

.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

Rethink your post, the person banned has videos of all his runs

I stand by what I said.

Reason: I don't know these people. The evidence they present can be done so in a manner that hides that they are cheating.

"Face when all runs must be cheat runs unless there is a video of them.

By the way, even if there was a video of any run, it isn't like someone who doesn't want to be convinced of a leader board score would suddenly become convinced of that scores legitimacy. They would be likely to just push the goal posts further away.

"Well, maybe you showed me a whole vMA run, but you didn't also record all of your computer processes to show me you were not cheating."

"Well maybe you recorded all of your computer processes to, but you could have just forged the recording."

"Well maybe some other outlandish thing because I don't actually want to believe you to be an authority so I wont despite the clear evidence.""

I make no statement about whether the people the OP is referring to are cheating or not.

What some might call "clear evidence", I call anecdotal evidence because it can be cherry picked. Not that it is, or isn't, cherry picked. It can be. There is no way for the player to conclusively prove they were not cheating. Just because they show evidence that they were not cheating at a particular time does not prove what they were doing at other times.

We don't get to see what ZOS sees and the burden of proof lies with them. They are the only ones that can prove that the player was cheating at a particular time. Without this information, which ZOS will never provide, no one can really be sure whether the player claiming innocence can be trusted to present their own evidence fairly and honestly.

It is for that reason that I cannot trust what they say. It has nothing to do with me wanting them to be guilty or innocent.

Some current goings on are clear cases of players have better knowledge than a ZOS program or unaccountable ZOS person who doesn't play the game.

Let me take a guess - evidence about the Earth orbiting the sun is cherry picked too.

SanTii.92

LegacyDM wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel The auto ban system is penalizing players for being at the top of their game and completing content too fast. How is this at all logical? I know many people who have never and will never hack the game yet they have been banned for "speed hacks" presumably in vMA as its mainly people posting fast runs. How can you at all justify the auto ban system when its detecting innocents and people who actually cheated are roaming around? The auto ban system is just a lazy implementation that puts caps on what zos "thinks is possible" even though they have no clue whats actually possible in their game. Auto ban should be used as a temporary solution where its only tagging the people who are being extremely obvious such as flying or perma ult or extreme stat modification and while that is in place they should be working on adding a fix that doesnt revolve around banning people and instead revolves around actually fixing the hacks.

sAnn92 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Function wrote: »

It's really sad when it has come to the point where people are scared to activate their speed buffs in fear that they will get auto banned. ZoS, it was very unwise to set your auto ban parameters so low when you clearly have no idea what speed/damage/etc. values are actually possible.. seek council from people who do.

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

Rethink your post, the person banned has videos of all his runs

I stand by what I said.

Reason: I don't know these people. The evidence they present can be done so in a manner that hides that they are cheating.

"Face when all runs must be cheat runs unless there is a video of them.

By the way, even if there was a video of any run, it isn't like someone who doesn't want to be convinced of a leader board score would suddenly become convinced of that scores legitimacy. They would be likely to just push the goal posts further away.

"Well, maybe you showed me a whole vMA run, but you didn't also record all of your computer processes to show me you were not cheating."

"Well maybe you recorded all of your computer processes to, but you could have just forged the recording."

"Well maybe some other outlandish thing because I don't actually want to believe you to be an authority so I wont despite the clear evidence.""

I make no statement about whether the people the OP is referring to are cheating or not.

What some might call "clear evidence", I call anecdotal evidence because it can be cherry picked. Not that it is, or isn't, cherry picked. It can be. There is no way for the player to conclusively prove they were not cheating. Just because they show evidence that they were not cheating at a particular time does not prove what they were doing at other times.

We don't get to see what ZOS sees and the burden of proof lies with them. They are the only ones that can prove that the player was cheating at a particular time. Without this information, which ZOS will never provide, no one can really be sure whether the player claiming innocence can be trusted to present their own evidence fairly and honestly.

It is for that reason that I cannot trust what they say. It has nothing to do with me wanting them to be guilty or innocent.

False. You can test by yourself every possibly edited stat shown on the video already provided if you are committed enough.

How can you be certain 100% without a shadow of a doubt these people were banned for speed hacking vma? These guys can post videos all day long and it's meaningless if that's not why they were banned.did Zos inform them that they were banned due to vma? I'd be interested to know.

What is 100% certain without a shadow of doubt is that there are people who are getting wrongfully banned and that there are some who we were told they were permabanned but it was just not true.

Something is clearly not working properly, and that's what this thread is trying to adress.

Personofsecrets

Smileybones wrote: »

You people cried rivers because ZOS wasn't addressing cheaters and now you cry rivers because they are addressing cheaters.

Sigh.

Except there are now multiple cases of non-cheaters getting banned.

LegacyDM

Function wrote: »

This thread saddens me, Jace and Andy were both clearly misbanned but people still think the worst even with their proof. What if this happened to you?

Sure but maybe people aren't getting banned for speed running vma. Maybe people are getting banned for gold farm buying, running bots, Or finding duping exploits. Not saying these individuals did any of that and quite possibly were wrongfully banned. However, before jumping to conclusion about people innocently getting banned based on videos there maybe other reasons that a video doesn't show.

Nifty2g

LegacyDM wrote: »

Function wrote: »

This thread saddens me, Jace and Andy were both clearly misbanned but people still think the worst even with their proof. What if this happened to you?

Sure but maybe people aren't getting banned for using ce or speed running vma. Maybe people are getting banned for gold farm buying, running bots, Or finding duping exploits. Not saying these individuals did any of that and quite possibly were wrongfully banned. However, before jumping to conclusion about people innocently getting banned based on videos there maybe other reasons that a video doesn't show.

We have seen the emails, we are in his guild. We know why he was banned

Personally I believe Nightblades in VMA are triggering this anti cheat detection because of refreshing path giving you extra movement speed, in VMA you use that for the whole run so you pretty much have extra move speed for 40+ minutes in the dungeon. And ontop of that, Jace ruins it daily for hours. So it most likely triggered something.

So that is what is alarming about this system.

LegacyDM

Nifty2g wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Function wrote: »

This thread saddens me, Jace and Andy were both clearly misbanned but people still think the worst even with their proof. What if this happened to you?

Sure but maybe people aren't getting banned for using ce or speed running vma. Maybe people are getting banned for gold farm buying, running bots, Or finding duping exploits. Not saying these individuals did any of that and quite possibly were wrongfully banned. However, before jumping to conclusion about people innocently getting banned based on videos there maybe other reasons that a video doesn't show.

We have seen the emails, we are in his guild. We know why he was banned

Personally I believe Nightblades in VMA are triggering this anti cheat detection because of refreshing path giving you extra movement speed, in VMA you use that for the whole run so you pretty much have extra move speed for 40+ minutes in the dungeon. And ontop of that, Jace ruins it daily for hours. So it most likely triggered something.

So that is what is alarming about this system.

So the emails do specifically state speed hacking vma? Shrug I jut ran all undaunted for this past week straight using refreshing path and not banned... While I'm sure your friend didn't cheat I'm not convinced it that.

Phinix1

sAnn92 wrote: »

At this point is obvious that both Andy and now Jace were wrongfully banned...

Not to belabor the issue or sound callous, but that is a pretty weak argument. Just because a person has videos of some gameplay on youtube does NOT mean THAT is what he was banned for.

Assumption the first.

It also does NOT mean that they are incapable of cheating. Sypher live streams sponsored for ZOS for a living, and he was also sharing accounts and ended up getting banned. Clearly the ability to post youtube videos does not make someone automatically incapable of cheating.

Assumption the second.

So, since the only people that REALLY know what these people were banned for are those people and ZOS, pretty much everything else is just hearsay.

I understand wanting to defend your friend, but nothing constructive can come of forum posting it.

Personofsecrets

Phinix1 wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

At this point is obvious that both Andy and now Jace were wrongfully banned...

Not to belabor the issue or sound callous, but that is a pretty weak argument. Just because a person has videos of some gameplay on youtube does NOT mean THAT is what he was banned for.

Assumption the first.

It also does NOT mean that they are incapable of cheating. Sypher live streams sponsored for ZOS for a living, and he was also sharing accounts and ended up getting banned. Clearly the ability to post youtube videos does not make someone automatically incapable of cheating.

Assumption the second.

So, since the only people that REALLY know what these people were banned for are those people and ZOS, pretty much everything else is just hearsay.

I understand wanting to defend your friend, but nothing constructive can come of forum posting it.

It's a funny assumption that ZOS knows what happened.

LegacyDM

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

At this point is obvious that both Andy and now Jace were wrongfully banned...

Not to belabor the issue or sound callous, but that is a pretty weak argument. Just because a person has videos of some gameplay on youtube does NOT mean THAT is what he was banned for.

Assumption the first.

It also does NOT mean that they are incapable of cheating. Sypher live streams sponsored for ZOS for a living, and he was also sharing accounts and ended up getting banned. Clearly the ability to post youtube videos does not make someone automatically incapable of cheating.

Assumption the second.

So, since the only people that REALLY know what these people were banned for are those people and ZOS, pretty much everything else is just hearsay.

I understand wanting to defend your friend, but nothing constructive can come of forum posting it.

It's a funny assumption that ZOS knows what happened.

Zos doesn't which is why they have been overturning the bans. However, the guy still has a valid point.

Personofsecrets

With mistake after mistake that is made every single patch of this game, we are still going to believe that any part of the game, such as the so-called cheat detection system, is working a-okay?

Arvs

Let the real cheaters run about free, but ban the legit players. Makes a lot of sense.

Gilliamtherogue

Phinix1 wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

At this point is obvious that both Andy and now Jace were wrongfully banned...

Not to belabor the issue or sound callous, but that is a pretty weak argument. Just because a person has videos of some gameplay on youtube does NOT mean THAT is what he was banned for.

Assumption the first.

It also does NOT mean that they are incapable of cheating. Sypher live streams sponsored for ZOS for a living, and he was also sharing accounts and ended up getting banned. Clearly the ability to post youtube videos does not make someone automatically incapable of cheating.

Assumption the second.

So, since the only people that REALLY know what these people were banned for are those people and ZOS, pretty much everything else is just hearsay.

I understand wanting to defend your friend, but nothing constructive can come of forum posting it.

You sure have a lot of faith in ZoS to think they know what's going on. You know what got Zenimax really worried about implementing a CP cap before when there was a seasonal ceiling? An Emperor soloing Molag Bal in the Imperial City Sewers. They saw his stats and thought it was CP, and this was their "realization" that the CP cap was needed. If that right there doesn't show how totally clueless Zenimax can be with their own game, I don't know what could.

Personofsecrets

LegacyDM wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

At this point is obvious that both Andy and now Jace were wrongfully banned...

Not to belabor the issue or sound callous, but that is a pretty weak argument. Just because a person has videos of some gameplay on youtube does NOT mean THAT is what he was banned for.

Assumption the first.

It also does NOT mean that they are incapable of cheating. Sypher live streams sponsored for ZOS for a living, and he was also sharing accounts and ended up getting banned. Clearly the ability to post youtube videos does not make someone automatically incapable of cheating.

Assumption the second.

So, since the only people that REALLY know what these people were banned for are those people and ZOS, pretty much everything else is just hearsay.

I understand wanting to defend your friend, but nothing constructive can come of forum posting it.

It's a funny assumption that ZOS knows what happened.

Zos doesn't which is why they have been overturning the bans. However, the guy still has a valid point.

And ZOS not knowing is also a reason that bans can end up not overturned. ZOS not knowing and being incapable at introducing non-broken aspects of the game time after time is the core reason for this issue and the reason that we should side with ZOS about 0% of the time.

Personofsecrets

And how many more people are going to have to deal with these issues in the coming months?

Honestly, I don't want to PVP period with all of the shenanigans going on. There is no way that I will take a chance at being wrongfully banned after my Orc running speed seems to high or after a gap closer does something bizarre.

Phinix1

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

You sure have a lot of faith in ZoS to think they know what's going on. You know what got Zenimax really worried about implementing a CP cap before when there was a seasonal ceiling? An Emperor soloing Molag Bal in the Imperial City Sewers. They saw his stats and thought it was CP, and this was their "realization" that the CP cap was needed. If that right there doesn't show how totally clueless Zenimax can be with their own game, I don't know what could.

The CP cap WAS needed. It was transforming otherwise decent gamers into OCD grind treadmill-running angry hostile terf monopolists. People were doing nothing but grinding 24/7 to get that advantage over others.

It was destabilizing fair and balanced PVP. I totally agree with caps 100%.

I would rather an occasional person gets temporarily banned by mistake (and "mistake" remains something only the person in question and ZOS can know for absolute certain), than they take a casual attitude about exploiting and cheating.

If anything, I think they need to turn up cheat detection and perma-bans MORE because like many, the cheating and exploiting in PVP has basically stolen that entire part of the game I bought from me.

I can't even play and enjoy an entire part of the game because of these people.

Personofsecrets

Phinix1 wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

You sure have a lot of faith in ZoS to think they know what's going on. You know what got Zenimax really worried about implementing a CP cap before when there was a seasonal ceiling? An Emperor soloing Molag Bal in the Imperial City Sewers. They saw his stats and thought it was CP, and this was their "realization" that the CP cap was needed. If that right there doesn't show how totally clueless Zenimax can be with their own game, I don't know what could.

I would rather an occasional person gets temporarily banned by mistake (and "mistake" remains something only the person in question and ZOS can know for absolute certain), than they take a casual attitude about exploiting and cheating.

Why would we assume that players are only getting temporarily banned? How are wrongful bans in and of themselves not indicative of a casual attitude toward exploiting and cheating?

SanTii.92

Phinix1 wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

At this point is obvious that both Andy and now Jace were wrongfully banned...

Not to belabor the issue or sound callous, but that is a pretty weak argument. Just because a person has videos of some gameplay on youtube does NOT mean THAT is what he was banned for.

Assumption the first.

It also does NOT mean that they are incapable of cheating. Sypher live streams sponsored for ZOS for a living, and he was also sharing accounts and ended up getting banned. Clearly the ability to post youtube videos does not make someone automatically incapable of cheating.

Assumption the second.

So, since the only people that REALLY know what these people were banned for are those people and ZOS, pretty much everything else is just hearsay.

I understand wanting to defend your friend, but nothing constructive can come of forum posting it.

So you are saying those who have legitimately documented their biggest prowesses might have triggered the anti-cheat system doing what? Speed hacking to get more flowers?

There are obvious issues with the system.

asneakybanana

http://www.ownedcore.com/forums/mmo/elder-scrolls-online/elder-scrolls-online-general/561498-how-get-random-players-banned.html#post3451111 just going to leave this here...

Gilliamtherogue

Phinix1 wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

You sure have a lot of faith in ZoS to think they know what's going on. You know what got Zenimax really worried about implementing a CP cap before when there was a seasonal ceiling? An Emperor soloing Molag Bal in the Imperial City Sewers. They saw his stats and thought it was CP, and this was their "realization" that the CP cap was needed. If that right there doesn't show how totally clueless Zenimax can be with their own game, I don't know what could.

The CP cap WAS needed. It was transforming otherwise decent gamers into OCD grind treadmill-running angry hostile terf monopolists. People were doing nothing but grinding 24/7 to get that advantage over others.

It was destabilizing fair and balanced PVP. I totally agree with caps 100%.

I would rather an occasional person gets temporarily banned by mistake (and "mistake" remains something only the person in question and ZOS can know for absolute certain), than they take a casual attitude about exploiting and cheating.

If anything, I think they need to turn up cheat detection and perma-bans MORE because like many, the cheating and exploiting in PVP has basically stolen that entire part of the game I bought from me.

I can't even play and enjoy an entire part of the game because of these people.

I never said I disagreed with the CP cap. I said that despite everything that showed that no CP caps was awful, they saw a completely unrelated event and blamed it on no CP caps.

Phinix1

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Why would we assume that players are only getting temporarily banned? How are wrongful bans in and of themselves not indicative of a casual attitude toward exploiting and cheating?

Because there is an appeal system and plenty of people have been unbanned in reviewing the logs more carefully with human eyes to see if there was actual cheating going on. ZOS log everything.

If you understand computer securtity you will know there is no such thing as a "magic bullet" antivirus. There are false positives. It happens. Definitions must be constantly updated. There is never a magical point where "OK guys, we did it. Everything detected is legit and nothing escapes our detection!" Such a view is a dream, a fantasy.

sAnn92 wrote: »

So you are saying those who have legitimately documented their biggest prowesses might have triggered the anti-cheat system doing what? Speed hacking to get more flowers?

The problem here is making the assumption that it MUST be their youtube prowess that got them banned. That is a completely baseless assumption born of one's on personal bias.

The fact is we have NO KNOWLEDGE of why they were banned. They could be posting legit videos on their "prowess" at one moment, then firing up their cheat engine in the next to get some lols in Cyrodiil "off the record."

There is no way we could know, so assuming either way is pointless. That is what I'm saying. Let them appeal, let ZOS investigate the logs. But don't come on the forums and start a conspiracy theory about ZOS auto-banning skilled people without any evidence.

It just serves no constructive purpose.

Personofsecrets

Phinix1 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Why would we assume that players are only getting temporarily banned? How are wrongful bans in and of themselves not indicative of a casual attitude toward exploiting and cheating?

Because there is an appeal system and plenty of people have been unbanned in reviewing the logs more carefully with human eyes to see if there was actual cheating going on. ZOS log everything.

If you understand computer securtity you will know there is no such thing as a "magic bullet" antivirus. There are false positives. It happens. Definitions must be constantly updated. There is never a magical point where "OK guys, we did it. Everything detected is legit and nothing escapes our detection!" Such a view is a dream, a fantasy.

sAnn92 wrote: »

So you are saying those who have legitimately documented their biggest prowesses might have triggered the anti-cheat system doing what? Speed hacking to get more flowers?

The problem here is making the assumption that it MUST be their youtube prowess that got them banned. That is a completely baseless assumption born of one's on personal bias.

The fact is we have NO KNOWLEDGE of why they were banned. They could be posting legit videos on their "prowess" at one moment, then firing up their cheat engine in the next to get some lols in Cyrodiil "off the record."

There is no way we could know, so assuming either way is pointless. That is what I'm saying. Let them appeal, let ZOS investigate the logs. But don't come on the forums and start a conspiracy theory about ZOS auto-banning skilled people without any evidence.

It just serves no constructive purpose.

And why would we assume that the same people who review logs carefully enough to unban known cheaters would be able to correctly identify who is and who isn't cheating? We have no way of knowing that ZOS will correctly deal with every case, but we have every reason to believe that there will be cases that are dealt with in an unsatisfactory way.

GivvumBoane

Phinix1 wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

You sure have a lot of faith in ZoS to think they know what's going on. You know what got Zenimax really worried about implementing a CP cap before when there was a seasonal ceiling? An Emperor soloing Molag Bal in the Imperial City Sewers. They saw his stats and thought it was CP, and this was their "realization" that the CP cap was needed. If that right there doesn't show how totally clueless Zenimax can be with their own game, I don't know what could.

The CP cap WAS needed. It was transforming otherwise decent gamers into OCD grind treadmill-running angry hostile terf monopolists. People were doing nothing but grinding 24/7 to get that advantage over others.

It was destabilizing fair and balanced PVP. I totally agree with caps 100%.

I would rather an occasional person gets temporarily banned by mistake (and "mistake" remains something only the person in question and ZOS can know for absolute certain), than they take a casual attitude about exploiting and cheating.

If anything, I think they need to turn up cheat detection and perma-bans MORE because like many, the cheating and exploiting in PVP has basically stolen that entire part of the game I bought from me.

I can't even play and enjoy an entire part of the game because of these people.

It's ok that an innocent person occasionally gets wrongfully convicted. That's what I got from this.

Phinix1

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

I never said I disagreed with the CP cap. I said that despite everything that showed that no CP caps was awful, they saw a completely unrelated event and blamed it on no CP caps.

I very seriously doubt this one event that I never even heard of was the deciding factor in them implementing CP caps. I was here and involved in that discussion. There were many staff posts about how they realized that the power gap was leading to unintended behaviors and unbalancing PVP, and the reasons stated for caps in the patch notes reflected these scenarios.

Emperors solo'ing Molag Bal didn't factor into it. New players having no chance against a grind monster with 1000+ CP was the #1 stated reason.

Not that this is related to the OP aside from tending to fuel anti-ZOS torches.

Phinix1

Personofsecrets wrote: »

And why would we assume that the same people who review logs carefully enough to unban known cheaters would be able to correctly identify who is and who isn't cheating? We have no way of knowing that ZOS will correctly deal with every case, but we have every reason to believe that there will be cases that are dealt with in an unsatisfactory way.

For just that reason, because we don't know. We DO know they log everything. The evidence IS there. People that were flagged as false-positives DO get unbanned. We DO know that much.

Occam's Razor dictates the simplest explanation tends to be the right one. I tend to assume either some people get flagged as false positives which happens even with world class antivirus programs like Norton and McAfee, and will be unbanned after appeal like others, or that they actually were cheating.

I don't think it is very rational to automatically assume that ZOS has some personal Dr. Evil agenda to maliciously ban "top performers" without cause, no.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

It's ok that an innocent person occasionally gets wrongfully convicted. That's what I got from this.

False positives happen. No security software in the world is free of them. Sorry if that is confusing to you.

andy_s

So... 'German is freely playing in Cyrodiil with his maelstrom staff he got for his hacked 597k runs, while Jace is being banned? Seems legit lol.

Currently I'm just having fun with stamina classes, because I can't take it seriously anymore

Unfortunately, this topic won't be ever answered by ZOS, because they trust their software. For some reasons some people are getting banned, working as inteded.

Phinix1

andy.s wrote: »

Unfortunately, this topic won't be ever answered by ZOS, because they trust their software.

Like I said, follow the appeal process. If you were legit banned with no reason you have nothing to fear. They will do an investigation and unban you.

Posting on the forums about disciplinary actions is against the TOS. Not sure why you would expect them to respond here as opposed to following the support process available to you.

Hope you are unbanned if you are innocent.

Bromburak

lordrichter wrote: »

I would not trust anyone who came to the forum to complain that the auto-ban system needed to be turned down because they, or anyone they knew, was caught by it. Period.

First of all, we are actually trying to help ZOS and innocent players and this shouldn't be ignored.
You cannot treat all customers as guilty until proven innocence because of bugs that trigger the cheat detection
tool.

Many of the bans are reproducable and has been demonstrated and send to ZOS already.
So we proved many times that there is a possibility that certain skills, your timing and possible lags at the "right moment" decide if you are getting banned or not. Result -> No reaction.

We are not even allowed to talk about the skills and how to reproduce these bugs, because it's like letting everybody know how to exploit. But many players just run into the issue without knowing that this is a bug and results in the fact that many players are being classified as false positive as a customer. They are not aware of the bugs this game has and ZOS knows that very well and actually confirm that they cannot be certain that their cheat detection always works as expected.
That's why it only results in a temp ban instead perma bans ...

However, ZOS has all the videos and feedback to reproduce and fix their bugs and actually improve their uncertain cheat
detection tool but their communication is terrible.

The problem with that is many false positives don't know what todo and how to get help , they are just a normal player like you , a customer playing this game and getting banned. For them it's not acceptable being guilty until proven innocence.
ZOS cannot talk about it either in the forums because of privacy rules , disciplinary actions and details that would make existing exploits become transparent to all of us.

fastolfv_ESO

i dont know what sets these guys are running but currently there are 2 sets that give major expedition that stack with rapids and its been all over how to exploit them to go faster than your char is supposed to. Perhaps they used to combo either in vma or elsewhere and the autoban picked up on it? if thats the case then they got caught, if not an appeal on the ban will be more thorough and they have nothing to worry about

Personofsecrets

Phinix1 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

And why would we assume that the same people who review logs carefully enough to unban known cheaters would be able to correctly identify who is and who isn't cheating? We have no way of knowing that ZOS will correctly deal with every case, but we have every reason to believe that there will be cases that are dealt with in an unsatisfactory way.

For just that reason, because we don't know. We DO know they log everything. The evidence IS there. People that were flagged as false-positives DO get unbanned. We DO know that much.

Occam's Razor dictates the simplest explanation tends to be the right one. I tend to assume either some people get flagged as false positives which happens even with world class antivirus programs like Norton and McAfee, and will be unbanned after appeal like others, or that they actually were cheating.

I don't think it is very rational to automatically assume that ZOS has some personal Dr. Evil agenda to maliciously ban "top performers" without cause, no.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

It's ok that an innocent person occasionally gets wrongfully convicted. That's what I got from this.

False positives happen. No security software in the world is free of them. Sorry if that is confusing to you.

How do we know that they log everything? How do we know that they use those logs when deciding disciplinary action? How do we know that those logs are accurate?

Additionally, why are you suddenly using strawman arguments with words like evil and malicious when nobody has said that about ZOS? It is a funny assumption to make that people think ZOS is evil when all anyone has said is that ZOS has made error after error in many of their dealings.

The simplest explanation is that ZOS reacted to community pressure with regards cheating. Because of that reaction there is now a system in place that is sensitive to the point that non-cheaters are being declared cheaters. Again, we don't even know for sure what kind of logs are made if a player cheats. Recent bans could literally just be because of in game reports by players who think that certain things must be cheating.

Why should anyone assume that ZOS has any of this under control?