Sun VS Julianos

LaRoseNoire

Finally we get the "silks of the sun" set, and we can test it.

"Sun" gives 510 Spell Damage (Total), and "Julianos" gives 288; but Sun doesnt show it in stats.

The reason: spell damage from sun is applicable in abilities, not in character itself. We could test it in DK Fire Mage, and the results are "nice".

Problem: We lose two critical passives, and only could be usefull in FireMage builds.

Benefit: Sun is also present in jewelry and weapon, and can be substitute for Willpower and Torugs base build, used with Julianos. Buuuut, Zenimax forgot to add the weapons and jewelry in PTS.

What do you think guys? Is sun returning from death?

Shadesofkin

I plan to use it. Screw the theory crafters.

clocksstoppe

Gonna paste here my post from the datamine thread:

Tested sun vs julianos on pts template dk dunmer, I'm quite surprised, sun beats julianos in a vacuum.

Julianos: light attack (crit) 3473, molten whip (crit) 11203, crit% 63.4, spell damage 2172 (+400 invisible)
Sun:........light attack (crit) 3757, molten whip (crit) 11897, crit% 57.1, spell damage 2342


Assuming we would fire 1 molten whip per second and nothing else, DPS :
Julianos 7952
Sun........8007


Now the question is, is it worth it to replace Skoria / Monster helm set + Willpower set with the Sun set? I need the damn jewelry to find out.


EDIT: I should probably mention that when factoring in aggressive horn, igneous, etc, I assume Julianos is still better however you can run both if you sacrifice the 2 pc monster helm OR sacrifice destro staff for dw.

GilGalad

You have some health enchants on the Julianos pieces. The max magicka should be the same with both sets.

Nifty2g

I'm going to say no.
It's 222 spell damage vs 6% crit. Personally I don't think the damage makes up for the crit loss.

Shadesofkin

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Gonna paste here my post from the datamine thread:

Tested sun vs julianos on pts template dk dunmer, I'm quite surprised, sun beats julianos in a vacuum.

Julianos: light attack (crit) 3473, molten whip (crit) 11203, crit% 63.4, spell damage 2172 (+400 invisible)
Sun:........light attack (crit) 3757, molten whip (crit) 11897, crit% 57.1, spell damage 2342


Assuming we would fire 1 molten whip per second and nothing else, DPS :
Julianos 7952
Sun........8007


Now the question is, is it worth it to replace Skoria / Monster helm set + Willpower set with the Sun set? I need the damn jewelry to find out.


EDIT: I should probably mention that when factoring in aggressive horn, igneous, etc, I assume Julianos is still better however you can run both if you sacrifice the 2 pc monster helm OR sacrifice destro staff for dw.

I said the same in guild chat, for a build that isn't exactly like the rest you can run sun and extrapolated from what I was doing (identically to you, using Whip) I'm thinking the loss is minimal in the grand scheme of 12 man dps.

Most of the groups I run in, no ones using Igneous because we all have max alchemy to keep those buffs at the 40s mark. With spell power pots my whips were hitting much higher than suns when they crit. I play purely PvE, I was able to get my crit to about 55% once I golded out the Sun pieces and made sure everything was divines. On live both my Maelstrom Staves are precise, so that's going to put me above 60% WITH willpower jewelry and Kena helm

GilGalad

Gil.Galad wrote: »

You have some health enchants on the Julianos pieces. The max magicka should be the same with both sets.

Edit:
You should also consider the higher crit with Julianos.

Neoauspex

WTB @Asayre math. Need 5 dimensional chart to tell us which set is better.

Shadesofkin

Nifty2g wrote: »

I'm going to say no.
It's 222 spell damage vs 6% crit. Personally I don't think the damage makes up for the crit loss.

I'm not convinced its as big a loss as people think it is.

clocksstoppe

Nifty2g wrote: »

I'm going to say no.
It's 222 spell damage vs 6% crit. Personally I don't think the damage makes up for the crit loss.

If igneous / major sorcery applies to the sun's spell damage bonus, sun is better then. Actually, brb i'm going to test if this is the case.


Regardless of that outcome, you should understand that you don't HAVE to choose between Julianos and Sun, you can have both because of jewelry. However, the devs left us with no jewelry for the new sets on the PTS characters, which is sad.

Shadesofkin

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I'm going to say no.
It's 222 spell damage vs 6% crit. Personally I don't think the damage makes up for the crit loss.

If igneous / major sorcery applies to the sun's spell damage bonus, sun is better then. Actually, brb i'm going to test if this is the case.


Regardless of that outcome, you should understand that you don't HAVE to choose between Julianos and Sun, you can have both because of jewelry. However, the devs left us with no jewelry for the new sets on the PTS characters, which is sad.

Very true, assuming Jewelry you've got a really rad set up.

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO

Wouldnt you be able to use both if the rings and neck were to drop , iirc every set drops in rings neck and weapons now

Akimbro

It would be more of a comparison between Sun vs. Willpower + Kena/Valkyn really. Also the consideration of slayer bonus from Aether. But I suspect with the jewelry, most Magicka DK's will be doing 5 Julianos/TBS, 5 Sun, and a vMA staff.

Shadesofkin

Akimbro wrote: »

It would be more of a comparison between Sun vs. Willpower + Kena/Valkyn really. Also the consideration of slayer bonus from Aether. But I suspect with the jewelry, most Magicka DK's will be doing 5 Julianos/TBS, 5 Sun, and a vMA staff.

I'm going to putz around with 5 Aether 5 Sun and 2 MSA staves later on.

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO

Though imo it would def give magika dks the boost in pvp, not so sure about pve because of the crit that you're losing.

Akimbro

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

It would be more of a comparison between Sun vs. Willpower + Kena/Valkyn really. Also the consideration of slayer bonus from Aether. But I suspect with the jewelry, most Magicka DK's will be doing 5 Julianos/TBS, 5 Sun, and a vMA staff.

I'm going to putz around with 5 Aether 5 Sun and 2 MSA staves later on.

Aether will be hard to give up. That's 5% more damage done, and enemies take 8% more damage. However, DK's definitely shouldn't be the class to run the 5 pc Aether.

clocksstoppe

Just tested it, 399 real spell damage vs sun's 400 invisible one, same tooltip dmg and whip damage are literally the same (with igneous on), so if you are using all flame attacks the sun set is pretty much full fledged 400 spell damage.

Shadesofkin

Akimbro wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

It would be more of a comparison between Sun vs. Willpower + Kena/Valkyn really. Also the consideration of slayer bonus from Aether. But I suspect with the jewelry, most Magicka DK's will be doing 5 Julianos/TBS, 5 Sun, and a vMA staff.

I'm going to putz around with 5 Aether 5 Sun and 2 MSA staves later on.

Aether will be hard to give up. That's 5% more damage done, and enemies take 8% more damage. However, DK's definitely shouldn't be the class to run the 5 pc Aether.

While they might not be the most awesome super optimized amazeballs class for running it, it doesn't hurt them to do so.

Saturn

The problem with the Sun is that it really only has a good use on a magicka dragonknight. Also if you are comparing it to the best set to run, and you are using it on a magicka dragonknight, I think you should compare it to Twice-Born Star, which most magicka dragonknights seem to run. If the Sun set has a jewellery it would be a really good combo with Twice-Born Star though, and likely the go to setup for Magicka Dragonknights after Update 11 hits.

Same thing with ultimate regen tanks and Dragonguard (if it has jewellery that is).

Shadesofkin

Saturn wrote: »

The problem with the Sun is that it really only has a good use on a magicka dragonknight. Also if you are comparing it to the best set to run, and you are using it on a magicka dragonknight, I think you should compare it to Twice-Born Star, which most magicka dragonknights seem to run. If the Sun set has a jewellery it would be a really good combo with Twice-Born Star though, and likely the go to setup for Magicka Dragonknights after Update 11 hits.

Same thing with ultimate regen tanks and Dragonguard (if it has jewellery that is).

I tend to consider Julianos the default because it's slightly more accessible to the average player base who might have managed to get 6 traits at this point. But you're right, TBS is far more often the go-to (myself included).

That all being said, I plan to run this, hell or high water.

STEVIL

Nifty2g wrote: »

I'm going to say no.
It's 222 spell damage vs 6% crit. Personally I don't think the damage makes up for the crit loss.

Some where around 6k the crit takes over the comparison but then again, the key to sun is jewels.... so run both if cookouts are your thing.

Anhedonie

Sun is total crap.

clocksstoppe

Anhedonie wrote: »

Sun is total crap.

Quite compelling proof given, I must say.

Vaoh

If I can get it, my Magicka DK will absolutely use it! I see it as a very powerful set, moreso in PvP since crit isn't as important.

Gigasax

I think Julianos is still better if Sun doesn´t profit from Major Sorcery

DRXHarbinger

Surely on a MagDK boss burn build you'd run, 5 sun with Jewelery, 5 Julianos with DW swords and Skoria. Keep the crit, both damage boosts and every firing meteors. Using a Maelstrom inferno inferno in precise would give you the same crit as running full Julianos anyway but with slightly and every so slightly less power.

Would that not be the way to go?

DRXHarbinger

Also is Sun down to be BOE or BOP? Just to make it slightly better with there being 6 sets to farm in the Archive.

Tyrion87

The Sun set looks nice but I cannot give up those two crit passives from Julianos set...
Crit chance is just too important for me to give it up.

Anhedonie

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Sun is total crap.

Quite compelling proof given, I must say.

Check 5 julianos + 5 infaliable aether. Damage difference is huge. Sun can't come even close to this.

Also math has been done already and you can find formulas on this forum, so quit being a smart ass.

IxskullzxI

Julianos might be better for pve, but I'm excited to try it sun for pvp on my magicka dk. Sun is BoE right?

Lord_Eomer

Finally a descent set for Firemage Builds..