(93% Support) Should Training and Prosperous be taken out of loot tables for end-game content?

SleepyTroll · July 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

*** RNG ZOS

Hylda69 · July 2016

Other. (Explain)

Impenetrable = Only on craft and PvP stuff.
Training = Only on craft and lvl 1-49 loot.

For the other, they should stay like it is but whith a serious change.
Only divine, infused, sturdy & reinforced is used for pve.

bebynnag · July 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

but think of all the money you would make if u ran around in full gold prosperous!

Ep1kMalware · July 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

I probab;y wouldn't mind but they seem to be the dominant trait on anything I pick up these days. I think they should make it knly obtainable in like white/blue quality gear. Things are getting prettt frustrating with this % of a % of a % style rng here lately. @zos, this isn;t cool, even before it sucked.Now it's just self defeating to even try.

timidobserver · July 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

Change the trait system to include a minor trait and a major trait.

baratron · July 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

It doesn't seem like I get 1/7 of each trait. It seems like a very large number of Training and Prosperous items drop in proportion to everything else. I shouldn't be dancing with joy to get Well-Fitted on Light Armor because it's not freaking Prosperous again!

I would prefer to have the six most useful traits, including Impenetrable. Sometimes I want to do PvP.

Jaronking · July 2016

puffytheslayer wrote: »

but think of all the money you would make if u ran around in full gold prosperous!

You would actually make more gold running full gold impen since you wouldn't have to pay for repair cost so you lose money running full prosperous.

Transairion · July 2016

No. Leave them in all.

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@MrTarkanian48 simply for the fact I feel the game is better with all options available to everyone.

There maybe players out there with farming character for either XP or Gold which also wish to have a faster/stronger build and might use these sets to achieve that. Seeing as they would sacrifice their normal strong traits for the farming ones there would be a desire for a stronger set bonus.

As I said though this would be on the grounds that traits being in the loot table is balanced against higher drops of the items giving payers more rolls on the RNG table of doom.

@Turelus There is the problem with this logic since prosperous is actually inferior to the new impenetrable in terms of gold farming unless you are throwing the gear away without repairing it
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/273766/why-prosperous-is-preposterous

Bias testing is bias; the player only used a single example of (entirely theoretical, mind you) earning 100 gold from a handful of mobs and the repair bill associated with that. Now, I don't know about you, but if I kill a handful of bandits in a silver/gold zone they tend to drop like 80 gold from one group and a few minutes of killing so I don't know what the player actually fought (19 mins fighting mammoths?) to only get 100 gold out of 20 mins.

And then, in their own testing, they show theoretical Prosperous earns MORE gold than the "savings" of full Impen, even if it's a 1 gold difference at that low number of testing. As far as I know, you can also keep grinding long after your armor has been destroyed anyway.

The point is, their entire argument hinges on a partly 100 gold earned example. Maybe they should go kill, you know, 1000 bandits in a delve/public dungeon wearing full Prosperous and THEN make a decision if it's good or bad? 100 gold after a supposed 20 mins is kind of unbelievable to me, unless they literally fought 3-5 mobs that could drop gold and several hundred skeevers the rest of the time. It's just a bias anti-Prosperous argument with a lot of theory and little, if any, evidence either way.

But yeah, I say keep them in. Almost all the traits are "bad traits" on one particular character, so the actual difference is just perceived. I feel like some people won't be happy until there's only Divines and Impen, 50% chance of each on every item in the game.

lonewolf26 · July 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

While we're at it can we remove these as well?
Restoration and destruction staves for every stamina focused set (alkosh,viper, vicious ophidian...)
Charged from VMA and DSA resto staves (what status effect are you applying with these?)

hrothbern · July 2016

No. Leave them in all.

BUT

Give every account the possibility to choose 3 traits that will never be on his loot.

mertusta · July 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

No, I want to farm gold with my Prosperous Molag Kena. Leave as it is.
/sarcasm

Decado · July 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

Zos said they upped drop rate but diluted the table with this crap, now it seems 90% of the stuff in getting from sanctum is one of those 2 traits, if I'm getting gear from end game content it should be aimed at being used in end game (and yes I include pvp in that)

cote-bmsb16_ESO · July 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

Grinded WGT and Prison to collect the keys, only to open chests of disappointment.. Time and time again, I get training gear. Its pretty annoying, should've just deleted the stacks of keys. lol

KochDerDamonen · July 2016

Drop all traits, maybe reserve nirnhoned for super special items, and make the drop chance even for each.

Mojmir · July 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

this shouldn't even need to be asked

redspecter23 · July 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

Any trait that has no combat use should be moved to a secondary trait slot. That way, drop loot can have divines, infused, sturdy, reinforced, nirnhoned, well fitted and impenetrable in the primary trait slot. Maybe 10% of the time, an item will have training or prosperous on it in addition to an actual combat useful trait. I would welcome the chance to get a divines item with training as a kicker trait on it. It's no worse in combat if you don't have it, but it's like icing on the cake if you get extremely lucky. Adjust the crafting system accordingly so you can do crafted gear with training or prosperous as a secondary trait, maybe with an increased craft cost.

MrTarkanian48 · September 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

Necro. With the increase in available shoulder drops this seems more important than ever in One Tamriel. Please remove these traits from end game loot tables.

MrTarkanian48 · October 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

93% of people responding to this requested Prosperous and Training to be removed from Undaunted chests.

This is why. @Deltia 12 minute video

250 keys later and 3 BiS gear drops with an overwhelming amount of Prosperous and Training

Please, at least take Prosperous out.

Another test from @code65536 that illustrates that Prosperous is not even BiS for what its only purpose is: Grinding Gold.

Can you please look at this, and acknowledge the reasoning behind leaving these traits in the loot table, or at least explain why Prosperous is in the game at all.

You ask for feedback. This poll started in the SoTH PTS. Why is it ignored?

Pomaikai · October 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

ZOS stated on the forums here that they were removing prosperous and training traits from end game loot, and yet here we are again.

The absolute worst? The Training set that drops in Auridon, and of course it ONLY drops in Training! A complete waste of a CP160 gear set. Who in the world thought this was an acceptable set to drop above L50 at the absolute maximum?

baratron · October 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

Pomaikai wrote: »

The absolute worst? The Training set that drops in Auridon, and of course it ONLY drops in Training! A complete waste of a CP160 gear set. Who in the world thought this was an acceptable set to drop above L50 at the absolute maximum?

Oh my goodness, the Trainee set drops for non-newbies?! That's an oversight.

Vaoh · October 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

Every piece of gear should have a trait.

These two traits dropping on endgame gear essentially translates to traitless gear.

No one wants traitless gear.

Izaki · October 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

I gotta say I'm gonna grind up my character and then get full training TBS and VO/IA. Who needs divines when you can get your CP (after cap) faster?! Who would say no to more gold?!

Valykc · October 2016

Other. (Explain)

I think they should be taken out of all loot tables and should only be crafting only traits, if you wanna run around and earn boat loads of gold or xp, you can craft or have someone craft a 5 piece set for you, done, simple.

Khaos_Bane · October 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

Turelus wrote: »

As per your other poll no.

I think all areas (PvP Vendor and PvE drops/chests) should have a chance at selling/dropping all traits so everyone has access to every type.

With the update that Gold Chests have a guaranteed drop of a shoulder part and the ability to trade within dungeons players just got a wider chance of the items they want which means expanding the drop types is less damaging.

I would say the NPC in Cyrodiil could do with offering two or three sets a week if it moved to selling all traits however.

We aren't talking about Monster haelms and shoulders only here. This goes for the dungeon SETS.

Nestor · October 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

I had two Undaunted Keys on a character, so I sauntered over to the Chests and used them. I got the exact same shoulder for both Keys, one was Prosperous, one was Divines. At least I got something I can use. Although, not sure if I can even use the Shoulder with my builds.

I got another end game drop and it had Training on it. That trait should only drop with trash Mob Loot. Prosperous just needs to be rethought, Exploration was not all that useful a trait, even on characters just starting out. But, Prosperous was not the trait to replace it with.

Eleusian · October 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

U know they would use something else to Dilute the loot pool. This is the current dilution , another equally as bad would replace

NolaArch · October 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

Without question.

olsborg · October 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

Those traits should not drop if the gear is scaled to 160cp or more, it makes very little sense for it to drop, doesnt have to have anything with how effective or not it is in combat, it just makes no sense when you look at it logically. Take them out.

FriedEggSandwich · October 2016

Other. (Explain)

I feel the same way; if gear only dropped in desireable traits then content would become obsolete more quickly. But the useless drops do appear to be more common than the desirable traits right now. So I think drop rates need adjusting.

eagles9595b16_ESO · October 2016

Yes. Take them out of all.

I voted to remove them as I think ZOE cheated on the "random" aspect of the loot table.

It's just about math, nothing more.
There is no way that the prosperous or traning trait drop rate is so high !!!!
7 trait should not result with less than 5% of chance to find a divine trait and so many prosperous and training on end game gear.

My opinion is that the loot table is not "equally random" between all trait... it's just like if ZOS put more chance on useless trait
compare to others.

Don't forget that if you want ZOS to remove those 2 traits, it has to be done on boss reward and chest as well.
No point to apply that only on chest

So I think ZOS have 2 options

- remove both properous and training traits from the end game loot reward (boss loot and chest)
- be honest with customers and fairly apply a TRUE random drop rate on all traits ! without any cheat math drop rate

have fun