New animations are slow, players are now constrained by the combat system instead of personal skill.

V3ntoux

LeifErickson wrote: »

I play this game because I love the combat system. It is awesome! I could look past the lag, the balance issues, the bugs, the cheaters, etc because the combat was just so amazing to me. I had so much fun in pvp and always felt like there is no other game that could give me this kind of excellent combat. Now with the Dark Brotherhood changes, that has changed. I loved this game so much and felt like I would never leave it, but these animation changes have ruined the combat for me. I hop into pvp now and try so hard to like the new changes, but I can't. This change honestly might make me quit the game and it makes me so sad to say that because of how much I love the game. But these changes just aren't fun. I don't understand why they would do this to the combat when it was so perfect and amazing before. I really hope zos changes back what they did with the combat.

You nailed it.

I'm guessing this is ZoS's way of dealing with lag and server stress issues - just slow animation timing down....

When does the next DLC come out? May take a break until then and see if anything's better.

LeifErickson

V3ntoux wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

I play this game because I love the combat system. It is awesome! I could look past the lag, the balance issues, the bugs, the cheaters, etc because the combat was just so amazing to me. I had so much fun in pvp and always felt like there is no other game that could give me this kind of excellent combat. Now with the Dark Brotherhood changes, that has changed. I loved this game so much and felt like I would never leave it, but these animation changes have ruined the combat for me. I hop into pvp now and try so hard to like the new changes, but I can't. This change honestly might make me quit the game and it makes me so sad to say that because of how much I love the game. But these changes just aren't fun. I don't understand why they would do this to the combat when it was so perfect and amazing before. I really hope zos changes back what they did with the combat.

You nailed it.

I'm guessing this is ZoS's way of dealing with lag and server stress issues - just slow animation timing down....

When does the next DLC come out? May take a break until then and see if anything's better.

But what I'm worried about is that this probably won't get changed next DLC. This is a change to stay in the game forever. Unless they reverted it in the next couple days, I don't see it ever being changed.

ShedsHisTail

Articulemort wrote: »

MickeyBN wrote: »

lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.

The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.

This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.

So you have to wait for an animation to finish ..... so combat is working exactly as it was intended to perform???

Please forgive me if I fail to see the problem with that.

I don't think the issue is so much that you have to wait for it to finish.

It's that you have to wait for it to finish, but there's no clear indication of -when- it finishes. So if you hit the next button too soon, the next ability fails to execute at all. And that's the problem. Things failing to fire when you expect them to costs you precious fractions of seconds in PvP and DPS in PvE. At least, that's -my- biggest problem with it.

I think folks could adapt to the inability to cancel animations if the game would sort of "queue" your button strikes. You know, if you hit the next button within .5 seconds (or some appropriate figure) of the current animation finishing, the next ability would automatically fire upon completion.

I think that would restore some of the fluidity which has currently gone missing.

Aerem

KenaPKK wrote: »

Articulemort wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Articulemort wrote: »

MickeyBN wrote: »

lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.

The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.

This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.

So you have to wait for an animation to finish ..... so combat is working exactly as it was intended to perform???

Please forgive me if I fail to see the problem with that.

"Combat Animation Prioritization
We adjusted the combat animation priority so that you will see impacts and effects for each ability and attack fired when played in rapid succession, without it affecting DPS. Blocking mechanics have been excluded from this change based on feedback from the last PTS testing cycle."

Taken directly from the patch notes. The combat animations are in fact not working as intended.

Are you saying that everyone's dps is dropping due to this or just animation cancellers?
Because if it's just animation cancellers, I would say then yes, combat is very much so working as intended.

"Animation cancellers" lol

As if that doesn't encompass every player in the game.

If you're not animation cancelling in both PvE and PvP or at least learning how to, then you're bad and you're not playing the game properly.

Animation cancelling is a fundamental component of this game's complex combat system that separates players along a spectrum of mechanical mastery. Putting it bluntly, to disagree is to pander to casuals and carebears and to want combat to be plain and equally easy for all players. Under a system with weakened or no animation cancelling, PvE would be dominated by who can put together the single meta build, resulting in equal dps among all players who do so, and numbers would dominate PvP instead of skill.

That is a simple fact, and that attitude will be the end of this game. Casual players don't keep a game alive. Hardcore ones do.

EDIT: I will add that the value of animation cancelling in PvP is to take advantage of an enemy's mistakes to burst them down and kill them. Healing and defense are very strong in this game. Given a second or two, an enemy who is low can dodge roll around and use a few healing abilities, and then voila, they're full health again. A good player will learn how to pop an animation cancelled burst combo or execute between these defensive maneuvers or inside a cc window in order to achieve the kill. Without animation cancelling, damage becomes low and combat becomes slow and paced. The instances of damage from a light attack, ability cast, and bash (if used) are spaced out within the 1 second global cooldown window, leaving the opponent time to react and roll around or heal. This makes combat too forgiving for players who make mistakes, protecting them from the death they deserved.

Basically, the new animation changes limit the speed with which dexterous and practiced players may execute combos, constraining their skill to a lower skill ceiling level. This is a very frustrating feeling -- to be limited by the game's combat system rather than your own potential -- and will run players off quite quickly. We hardcore players love this game and are extremely loyal to it (despite ZOS pushing us away with every patch...) because its combat system is organic and engaging. With this patch, ZOS has degraded that feeling. This is unacceptable and cannot continue. I have friends and guildies who love this game quitting daily because of this change. That cannot be ignored.

As for PvE, animation cancelling allows players to tighten their damage instances and maneuver between their light attack + ability weaves. This allows PvE players to execute the mechanics of their encounters while maintaining high dps. With the current animation changes, I expect ball group heal tanking to become more prevalent out of necessity since people will be less mobile in fights. Overall, combat will feel sticky and slow just like movement did after the Thieves' Guild patch.

No competitive player can disagree with these points.

And a non-competitive player has no place weighing into debates on combat balance and mechanics in a competitive game. Choose your side.

@KenaPKK *MIC DROP*

Aerem

KenaPKK wrote: »

Outer_Rim wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Articulemort wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Articulemort wrote: »

MickeyBN wrote: »

lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.

The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.

This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.

So you have to wait for an animation to finish ..... so combat is working exactly as it was intended to perform???

Please forgive me if I fail to see the problem with that.

"Combat Animation Prioritization
We adjusted the combat animation priority so that you will see impacts and effects for each ability and attack fired when played in rapid succession, without it affecting DPS. Blocking mechanics have been excluded from this change based on feedback from the last PTS testing cycle."

Taken directly from the patch notes. The combat animations are in fact not working as intended.

Are you saying that everyone's dps is dropping due to this or just animation cancellers?
Because if it's just animation cancellers, I would say then yes, combat is very much so working as intended.

"Animation cancellers" lol

As if that doesn't encompass every player in the game.

If you're not animation cancelling in both PvE and PvP or at least learning how to, then you're bad and you're not playing the game properly.

Animation cancelling is a fundamental component of this game's complex combat system that separates players along a spectrum of mechanical mastery. Putting it bluntly, to disagree is to pander to casuals and carebears and to want combat to be plain and equally easy for all players. Under a system with weakened or no animation cancelling, PvE would be dominated by who can put together the single meta build, resulting in equal dps among all players who do so, and numbers would dominate PvP instead of skill.

That is a simple fact, and that attitude will be the end of this game. Casual players don't keep a game alive. Hardcore ones do.

EDIT: I will add that the value of animation cancelling in PvP is to take advantage of an enemy's mistakes to burst them down and kill them. Healing and defense are very strong in this game. Given a second or two, an enemy who is low can dodge roll around and use a few healing abilities, and then voila, they're full health again. A good player will learn how to pop an animation cancelled burst combo or execute between these defensive maneuvers or inside a cc window in order to achieve the kill. Without animation cancelling, damage becomes low and combat becomes slow and paced. The instances of damage from a light attack, ability cast, and bash (if used) are spaced out within the 1 second global cooldown window, leaving the opponent time to react and roll around or heal. This makes combat too forgiving for players who make mistakes, protecting them from the death they deserved.

Basically, the new animation changes limit the speed with which dexterous and practiced players may execute combos, constraining their skill to a lower skill ceiling level. This is a very frustrating feeling -- to be limited by the game's combat system rather than your own potential -- and will run players off quite quickly. We hardcore players love this game and are extremely loyal to it (despite ZOS pushing us away with every patch...) because its combat system is organic and engaging. With this patch, ZOS has degraded that feeling. This is unacceptable and cannot continue. I have friends and guildies who love this game quitting daily because of this change. That cannot be ignored.

As for PvE, animation cancelling allows players to tighten their damage instances and maneuver between their light attack + ability weaves. This allows PvE players to execute the mechanics of their encounters while maintaining high dps. With the current animation changes, I expect ball group heal tanking to become more prevalent out of necessity since people will be less mobile in fights. Overall, combat will feel sticky and slow just like movement did after the Thieves' Guild patch.

No competitive player can disagree with these points.

And a non-competitive player has no place weighing into debates on combat balance and mechanics in a competitive game. Choose your side.

Riiiiight. Cause of course some people are not casuals. Honestly i think this game has become very toxic for your health, just by reading some of your previous post, i think you put yourself high and above other players when in all honesty seeing your youtube videos, you seem mediocre at best. For your own health you should consider taking a break from it, or the forums at least. You seem like a very toxic person.

You don't know me and have never encountered me in game or out of it, but I thank you for your expert opinion on my life.

Also I don't have current videos out other than a proxy cheese bomb video that was a parody of an op play style that I despise. Although I would be amused to watch you attempt the same kill records that I achieve with my bombs. Feel free to hit me up in game if you want to put some money where your mouth is.

@KenaPKK *MIC DROP #2*

Aerem

KenaPKK wrote: »

Articulemort wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Articulemort wrote: »

Outer_Rim wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Articulemort wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Articulemort wrote: »

MickeyBN wrote: »

lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.

The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.

This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.

So you have to wait for an animation to finish ..... so combat is working exactly as it was intended to perform???

Please forgive me if I fail to see the problem with that.

"Combat Animation Prioritization
We adjusted the combat animation priority so that you will see impacts and effects for each ability and attack fired when played in rapid succession, without it affecting DPS. Blocking mechanics have been excluded from this change based on feedback from the last PTS testing cycle."

Taken directly from the patch notes. The combat animations are in fact not working as intended.

Are you saying that everyone's dps is dropping due to this or just animation cancellers?
Because if it's just animation cancellers, I would say then yes, combat is very much so working as intended.

"Animation cancellers" lol

As if that doesn't encompass every player in the game.

If you're not animation cancelling in both PvE and PvP or at least learning how to, then you're bad and you're not playing the game properly.

Animation cancelling is a fundamental component of this game's complex combat system that separates players along a spectrum of mechanical mastery. Putting it bluntly, to disagree is to pander to casuals and carebears and to want combat to be plain and equally easy for all players. Under a system with weakened or no animation cancelling, PvE would be dominated by who can put together the single meta build, resulting in equal dps among all players who do so, and numbers would dominate PvP instead of skill.

That is a simple fact, and that attitude will be the end of this game. Casual players don't keep a game alive. Hardcore ones do.

EDIT: I will add that the value of animation cancelling in PvP is to take advantage of an enemy's mistakes to burst them down and kill them. Healing and defense are very strong in this game. Given a second or two, an enemy who is low can dodge roll around and use a few healing abilities, and then voila, they're full health again. A good player will learn how to pop an animation cancelled burst combo or execute between these defensive maneuvers or inside a cc window in order to achieve the kill. Without animation cancelling, damage becomes low and combat becomes slow and paced. The instances of damage from a light attack, ability cast, and bash (if used) are spaced out within the 1 second global cooldown window, leaving the opponent time to react and roll around or heal. This makes combat too forgiving for players who make mistakes, protecting them from the death they deserved.

Basically, the new animation changes limit the speed with which dexterous and practiced players may execute combos, constraining their skill to a lower skill ceiling level. This is a very frustrating feeling -- to be limited by the game's combat system rather than your own potential -- and will run players off quite quickly. We hardcore players love this game and are extremely loyal to it (despite ZOS pushing us away with every patch...) because its combat system is organic and engaging. With this patch, ZOS has degraded that feeling. This is unacceptable and cannot continue. I have friends and guildies who love this game quitting daily because of this change. That cannot be ignored.

As for PvE, animation cancelling allows players to tighten their damage instances and maneuver between their light attack + ability weaves. This allows PvE players to execute the mechanics of their encounters while maintaining high dps. With the current animation changes, I expect ball group heal tanking to become more prevalent out of necessity since people will be less mobile in fights. Overall, combat will feel sticky and slow just like movement did after the Thieves' Guild patch.

No competitive player can disagree with these points.

And a non-competitive player has no place weighing into debates on combat balance and mechanics in a competitive game. Choose your side.

Riiiiight. Cause of course some people are not casuals. Honestly i think this game has become very toxic for your health, just by reading some of your previous post, i think you put yourself high and above other players when in all honesty seeing your youtube videos, you seem mediocre at best. For your own health you should consider taking a break from it, or the forums at least. You seem like a very toxic person.

I agree, not to mention players like that are toxic to the game community.
I've also never heard of someone who could be so impossibly arrogant about a video game.

You can rant and rave all you want, there is no denying it's an exploit, and it needs to go just like every other exploit.

You and your friends are just whining because you no longer can stream roll through kids with your "Oh so awesome animation canceling skills" and are actually force to fight a fair fight. The skill in this game is how you build your build, and if that means everyone is running meta, I guess you'll have to adapt to that situation. Or you can throw a hissy fit like a 4 year old and leave. Think anyone, especially ZOS will miss you? Doubt it, I can tell your a pc player which means they've made close to $500 off you. You have served your purpose.

Honestly, for your health, I hope you quit. Sounds like you need a vacation away from ESO.

Ps. If all your worried about is competing and "skill" I suggest you put this down and play whatever FPS that all the kids are playing these days.

Soo.. when ZoS specifically has stated that animation canceling is not an exploit, what gives you the right to declare it as one? It may have been unintended but it has since been embraced as an advanced combat mechanic which adds another layer of skill to the game. ZoS has been doing balance around the fact that player use it.

Btw, I, and many other, can still stream roll through casual kids like yourself no worries

I didn't realize they did. I supposed only in ESO can the devs spend time to code all different sorts of combat animations only to have players skip them, be alright with it, and now try to balance it. Seems legit. Anyways, that's my bad. My sincerest apologies.

I suppose that they might as well just remove all combat animations and weapons textures besides swords and we can all just wave our swords in the air and our opponents will just have to guess as to what skill we are using!!

And no you can't stream roll me bro, I don't go into pvp, the lag on Xbox makes it unplayable.

So not only do you have zero idea what you're talking about, but you're not even a PvP player to begin with?

This is the Alliance War forum. This thread is discussing the animation changes as they relate to PvP because the changes affect PvP dramatically while not terribly changing the rest of the game.

You do not belong here. Your opinions hold no weight here, and your irrational babbling against me and other hardcore players has no place here. You are welcome to ask questions so that we may educate you on this topic, but you are only embarrassing yourself with further argument. Shoo.

@KenaPKK *MIC DROP #3*

Aerem

Articulemort wrote: »

Sorry @KenaPKK, I didn't ask permission to say anything again. I swear next time, before I speak, I'll seek permission from your majesty before I post.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/85594/major-combat-flaw-animation-canceling-damage-stacking-devs-please-look-here
All I have to say...

@Articulemort Just stop. You are spewing ignorance and clearly don't understand basic game mechanics.
If you pvped at any level close to @KenaPKK you would understand that sitting there and waiting for an animation to complete is the difference between surviving and dying.

Furthermore, the issue is the fact that not only is animation canceling not working as intended, but the animations themselves, which people are suppose to see, aren't happening. You are literally arguing for a change that reduces the number of animations you can see, which, you have stated is what you don't want.

Most everyone on this thread has blatantly called you out for your BS statements and the fact that what you are calling for would destroy this game.

At what point will you realize what you are asking and arguing for is wrong and no one in the pvp community agrees with you. Just leave.

V3ntoux

LeifErickson wrote: »

V3ntoux wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

I play this game because I love the combat system. It is awesome! I could look past the lag, the balance issues, the bugs, the cheaters, etc because the combat was just so amazing to me. I had so much fun in pvp and always felt like there is no other game that could give me this kind of excellent combat. Now with the Dark Brotherhood changes, that has changed. I loved this game so much and felt like I would never leave it, but these animation changes have ruined the combat for me. I hop into pvp now and try so hard to like the new changes, but I can't. This change honestly might make me quit the game and it makes me so sad to say that because of how much I love the game. But these changes just aren't fun. I don't understand why they would do this to the combat when it was so perfect and amazing before. I really hope zos changes back what they did with the combat.

You nailed it.

I'm guessing this is ZoS's way of dealing with lag and server stress issues - just slow animation timing down....

When does the next DLC come out? May take a break until then and see if anything's better.

But what I'm worried about is that this probably won't get changed next DLC. This is a change to stay in the game forever. Unless they reverted it in the next couple days, I don't see it ever being changed.

Unfortunately you may be correct. After playing since beta, the end is in sight.
Frustration > Fun lately, may be time to move on.

Articulemort

@KenaPKK Your grace, I humbly ask your permission to post a reply to @Aerem, I know I previously told you, the Almighty One, that I was done posting but I was directly quoted and wish to speak up. I humbly await your decision.

Spliffo

Any chance someone could post a video of this or post a link to one so us console payers can see what we are in for

zZzleepyhead

They said it wouldn't effect DPS... LOL
I HATE animation cancelling this patch. The game feels so sluggish overall. It's really got me frightened. I would like to stay with ESO, but the changes are becoming more invasive and they aren't productive changes either. Developer time seems to be focused on the wrong things ):
It's really quite awful. Please do something ZOS!

KenaPKK

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom this thread contains what loyal PvPers think of your animation changes. These changes need to be reverted, at least in PvP...

MickeyBN

KenaPKK wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom this thread contains what loyal PvPers think of your animation changes. These changes need to be reverted, at least in PvP...

If you read what I said above Kena you'd see that Jess had acknowledged the problem - whether or not that means that they're actually going to do something about it or not now that's the question.

KenaPKK

MickeyBN wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom this thread contains what loyal PvPers think of your animation changes. These changes need to be reverted, at least in PvP...

If you read what I said above Kena you'd see that Jess had acknowledged the problem - whether or not that means that they're actually going to do something about it or not now that's the question.

Of course I saw. But they need to revert the change altogether, not just "look into it" like the do everything else.

I'm going to keep poking at them. This conversation needs to keep going.

MickeyBN

I agree. This isn't something they can afford to sweep under the rug until the next major patch. This is a problem the majority of players are experiencing and hating.

blabafat

I play magicka templar, and these changes negatively affect me as well.

It's mainly with toppling charge. It's so slow and predictable.

Dyride

It seems most likely to get the start of an animation clipped, which hampers the ability to be reactive to the animations of you opponent.

I want to be able to see the Windup, not the follow through after they have already dealt damage.

Ghost-Shot

Mako1132 wrote: »

Articulemort wrote: »

Sorry @KenaPKK, I didn't ask permission to say anything again. I swear next time, before I speak, I'll seek permission from your majesty before I post.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/85594/major-combat-flaw-animation-canceling-damage-stacking-devs-please-look-here
All I have to say...

So you have a problem with weaving light attacks and maybe a bash here or there?

Well you see its really hard to left click before I use my abilities, this game should really be more casual friendly...

Ghost-Shot

KenaPKK wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom this thread contains what loyal PvPers think of your animation changes. These changes need to be reverted, at least in PvP...

This whole game needs to be reverted to 1.5

Ishammael

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom this thread contains what loyal PvPers think of your animation changes. These changes need to be reverted, at least in PvP...

This whole game needs to be reverted to 1.5

Must go watch old @Etaniel videos... and cry. *sob*

Ghost-Shot

Ishammael wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom this thread contains what loyal PvPers think of your animation changes. These changes need to be reverted, at least in PvP...

This whole game needs to be reverted to 1.5

Must go watch old @Etaniel videos... and cry. *sob*

I can't watch, I need a grownup

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

If this is the same issue @Nifty2g made this thread about, we're actively working on it (and there is something not working as it should.)

Ishammael

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom this thread contains what loyal PvPers think of your animation changes. These changes need to be reverted, at least in PvP...

This whole game needs to be reverted to 1.5

Must go watch old @Etaniel videos... and cry. *sob*

I can't watch, I need a grownup

OMG and the old @Juraigr videos.... Sigh....

rfennell_ESO

So I guess the animation cancelling change broke some macro kiddie macro scripting?

That's all I get from the thread...

outsideworld76

holosoul wrote: »

So no
It has nothing to do with lag
Why even guess if you're 100% ignorant of process mechanics, what if someone actually believed what you just made up?

Lag is an issue because it prevents feedback, if lag is large enough the side with the most lag will have the short end of the stick. Always lagging behind not being able to correct the situation. Lowering the pace will help to make the game more fair and balanced.

Ghost-Shot

Ishammael wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom this thread contains what loyal PvPers think of your animation changes. These changes need to be reverted, at least in PvP...

This whole game needs to be reverted to 1.5

Must go watch old @Etaniel videos... and cry. *sob*

I can't watch, I need a grownup

OMG and the old @Juraigr videos.... Sigh....

Why you hurt me like that Ish??

HoloYoitsu

ZOS motto is, "If it ain't broke, break it."

Wollust

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So I guess the animation cancelling change broke some macro kiddie macro scripting?

That's all I get from the thread...

Damn boy how salty can one single person be

Lisbette

Wollust wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

So I guess the animation cancelling change broke some macro kiddie macro scripting?

That's all I get from the thread...

Damn boy how salty can one single person be

Yea this tater tot is particularly salty, poor guy

Ishammael

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom this thread contains what loyal PvPers think of your animation changes. These changes need to be reverted, at least in PvP...

This whole game needs to be reverted to 1.5

Must go watch old @Etaniel videos... and cry. *sob*

I can't watch, I need a grownup

OMG and the old @Juraigr videos.... Sigh....

Why you hurt me like that Ish??

I just keep cutting watching and I don't know why