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New animations are slow, players are now constrained by the combat system instead of personal skill.
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Bfish22090✭✭✭✭✭PrinceFabious wrote: »Yay another thread with Kenas thoughts
1/10 forum troll, go back to casting Flame Reach from behind your zerg.
i was literally wondering last night why i kept getting hit with flame reach from an AD and DC zerg.
also, can i have their gold? the players who quit i mean1 -
Bramir✭✭✭✭Been wondering what was wrong since the DB patch...thought my eyes were just getting old!0 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Not really. Every other patch, these complaints and threats would come before, but no one would actually quit.
No one complained before this patch -- at least in my guildies. We were looking forward to the patch. But people are dropping pretty quickly this time...
0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Not really. Every other patch, these complaints and threats would come before, but no one would actually quit.
No one complained before this patch -- at least in my guildies. We were looking forward to the patch. But people are dropping pretty quickly this time...
my friend list has gotten smaller with every patch Edited by Lucky28 on June 6, 2016 9:04PMInvictus3 -
Skitttles✭✭✭✭I find I have to press buttons alot slower to make sure the skill goes off. If I don't then the skill won't go off or it feels so awkward with light attacks or heavy attacks inbetween.Skittles | DC Stem Sok and sumtimes Nertbled4 -
LeifErickson✭✭✭✭✭
✭
No it's not the same. I have not been playing this game that long, but from what I have seen, people have always said they were "quitting" because they were unhappy with a change to balance or their class got nerfed etc. This change is different. This change is not a balance change, it is a change that has made combat feel completely different. I have been told it doesn't affect magicka as much as stamina, but there really is no escaping this change from what I've seen. No reroll will allow you to avoid the combat changes. So that magicka sorc who says he is "quitting" because of changes to ward is not the same as another player who is quitting because combat no longer feels the same to him no matter what class he is playing.4 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I find I have to press buttons alot slower to make sure the skill goes off. If I don't then the skill won't go off or it feels so awkward with light attacks or heavy attacks inbetween.
I HATE this. It paces combat too slowly to the point where my reflexes and dexterity are constrained by the game. ZOS is lowering the skill ceiling of combat with this patch, and I consider it a slap in the face of hardcore PvP players.Edited by KenaPKK on June 6, 2016 10:48PM4 -
bikerangelo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have to agree on the animation changes.
During TG PTS testing, zose tried to prioritize the last bit of an animation to display, just so people could see what was hitting them or something? But they kind of screwed up and made it to where the full animation would play, block cancelling wasn't working, and only weapon swap cancelling would actually function properly.
Now, zose figured out how to prioritize the tail end of animations, however the beginning of animations can be cancelled, which is pretty bad for some skill combos. With templars, you can hide the beginning of jabs/sweeps with a heavy attack, so there's a higher chance of applying all your hits + the snare. If you pair ults like dawnbreaker, incap strike, leap, etc. with our new, slower gap closers, they'll both hit simultaneously as well.
This isn't the update the "anti-animation cancel" crowd is looking for, nor is it the polished system we're familiar with and came to appreciate about this game. Apparently the new system is also the reason why weapon idles are broken, so it'd be in zeni's best interest to just revert the animation system back to how it was, because I haven't heard a single person say they like it.5 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Edited by KenaPKK on June 7, 2016 12:28AM0 -
ColoursYouHave✭✭✭✭✭
✭LeifErickson wrote: »I play this game because I love the combat system. It is awesome! I could look past the lag, the balance issues, the bugs, the cheaters, etc because the combat was just so amazing to me. I had so much fun in pvp and always felt like there is no other game that could give me this kind of excellent combat. Now with the Dark Brotherhood changes, that has changed. I loved this game so much and felt like I would never leave it, but these animation changes have ruined the combat for me. I hop into pvp now and try so hard to like the new changes, but I can't. This change honestly might make me quit the game and it makes me so sad to say that because of how much I love the game. But these changes just aren't fun. I don't understand why they would do this to the combat when it was so perfect and amazing before. I really hope zos changes back what they did with the combat.
Pretty much my exact feelings. It seems that with all the problems PVP in this game has had, whether it be the balance issues, the lag, cheating/exploiting, etc., the combat system was something that was so much fun and felt so great, that people could look past the other issues and still find ways to have fun. IMO, the combat systems was a bit of a golden nugget in a game with many issues, and one of the few things that kept people playing despite all other problems they had with the game. Now, ZOS has gone and decided to change that one thing that helped keep PVP in this game afloat, and while I will continue to try to get used to it and have the same fun I used to, I am seriously concerned that myself and many other will not be able to find the same level of enjoyment we once did, and we will see a large migration away from ESO PVP as people feel that they simply are not having fun anymore.1 -
Articulemort✭✭✭I don't understand, people are leaving the game because they can't animation cancel anymore? Is that the general consensus of this thread?
If that's the case, animation canceling should be considered a exploit, or else ZOS wouldn't have taken the time to make animations!
Maybe y'all should stop whining and play the game was it was intended to be played, with full attack animations.
3 -
Skitttles✭✭✭✭Articulemort wrote: »I don't understand, people are leaving the game because they can't animation cancel anymore? Is that the general consensus of this thread?
If that's the case, animation canceling should be considered a exploit, or else ZOS wouldn't have taken the time to make animations!
Maybe y'all should stop whining and play the game was it was intended to be played, with full attack animations.
They're leaving because combat is slow and awkward when it used to be fast and fluid. The latter was a big thing this game had going for it.Skittles | DC Stem Sok and sumtimes Nertbled4 -
Articulemort✭✭✭ColoursYouHave wrote: »
That much is apparent.Articulemort wrote: »I don't understand
Wow, that's nice. You, sir, are a very kind person.
Maybe instead of being a certain feminine product used for cleansing, you could post something that actually has insight into this particular matter.
Anyway, I play on console so I will have to wait a week or so to experience this, but after reading through the forums alot, I'll expect that this is people overreacting and whining just for the sake of it.1 -
MickeyBN✭✭✭✭Articulemort wrote: »ColoursYouHave wrote: »
That much is apparent.Articulemort wrote: »I don't understand
Wow, that's nice. You, sir, are a very kind person.
Maybe instead of being a certain feminine product used for cleansing, you could post something that actually has insight into this particular matter.
Anyway, I play on console so I will have to wait a week or so to experience this, but after reading through the forums alot, I'll expect that this is people overreacting and whining just for the sake of it.
lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.
The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.
This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.Vaelerys Nightborn - Bosmer Nightblade PC NA2 -
Articulemort✭✭✭lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.
The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.
This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.
So you have to wait for an animation to finish ..... so combat is working exactly as it was intended to perform???
Please forgive me if I fail to see the problem with that.
0 -
ColoursYouHave✭✭✭✭✭
✭Articulemort wrote: »lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.
The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.
This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.
So you have to wait for an animation to finish ..... so combat is working exactly as it was intended to perform???
Please forgive me if I fail to see the problem with that.
"Combat Animation Prioritization
We adjusted the combat animation priority so that you will see impacts and effects for each ability and attack fired when played in rapid succession, without it affecting DPS. Blocking mechanics have been excluded from this change based on feedback from the last PTS testing cycle."
Taken directly from the patch notes. The combat animations are in fact not working as intended.3 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Remember a few months back Gina said they were working on addressing animation canceling. This is the first baby step in that direction. No sense coding animations if folks just clip and hide them, plus it will probably reduce server stress due to forcing the animation will kinda act like a mini cooldown.
I'm not sure how I feel about this, I can see both sides of the argument. However ZOS may have made up their minds about it and may be moving forward slowly in locking those animations down, who knows. I don't have an opinion on it one way or the other. I'll play a wait and see approach on this oneRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
Articulemort✭✭✭ColoursYouHave wrote: »Articulemort wrote: »lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.
The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.
This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.
So you have to wait for an animation to finish ..... so combat is working exactly as it was intended to perform???
Please forgive me if I fail to see the problem with that.
"Combat Animation Prioritization
We adjusted the combat animation priority so that you will see impacts and effects for each ability and attack fired when played in rapid succession, without it affecting DPS. Blocking mechanics have been excluded from this change based on feedback from the last PTS testing cycle."
Taken directly from the patch notes. The combat animations are in fact not working as intended.
Are you saying that everyone's dps is dropping due to this or just animation cancellers?
Because if it's just animation cancellers, I would say then yes, combat is very much so working as intended.0 -
ColoursYouHave✭✭✭✭✭
✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Remember a few months back Gina said they were working on addressing animation canceling. This is the first baby step in that direction. No sense coding animations if folks just clip and hide them, plus it will probably reduce server stress due to forcing the animation will kinda act like a mini cooldown.
I'm not sure how I feel about this, I can see both sides of the argument. However ZOS may have made up their minds about it and may be moving forward slowly in locking those animations down, who knows. I don't have an opinion on it one way or the other. I'll play a wait and see approach on this one
In regards to addressing animation canceling, they had originally said they intended to change the appearance of animations without actually changing how things work internally (basically meaning animation canceling would work exactly the same, just that it would look different so animations aren't entirely hidden.Articulemort wrote: »ColoursYouHave wrote: »Articulemort wrote: »lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.
The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.
This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.
So you have to wait for an animation to finish ..... so combat is working exactly as it was intended to perform???
Please forgive me if I fail to see the problem with that.
"Combat Animation Prioritization
We adjusted the combat animation priority so that you will see impacts and effects for each ability and attack fired when played in rapid succession, without it affecting DPS. Blocking mechanics have been excluded from this change based on feedback from the last PTS testing cycle."
Taken directly from the patch notes. The combat animations are in fact not working as intended.
Are you saying that everyone's dps is dropping due to this or just animation cancellers?
Because if it's just animation cancellers, I would say then yes, combat is very much so working as intended.
You can say whatever you want is working as intended, however things are not working the way the developers said they intended things to work. They said DPS would not be affected. DPS is affected. Yet if you weren't so narrow-minded as to cast judgement on something before you even managed to try it, you'd realize that people's complaints go well beyond animation canceling. For one, you can still animation cancel, but sometimes it doesn't work. Usually, when you animation cancel, it actually shows fewer animations than it did before. Sometimes abilities don't work when you aren't animation canceling, too. Sometimes, when you cast a gap closer in doesn't do anything (which is nothing new for anybody who has played a Templar). Other times, you cast a gap closer and it launches you right past the person you targeted, or even across the map. Maybe you should actually try something before going ahead and dismissing the arguments of those who have tried it, because the changes they made suck regardless of whether or not you animation cancel.5 -
Articulemort✭✭✭ColoursYouHave wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Remember a few months back Gina said they were working on addressing animation canceling. This is the first baby step in that direction. No sense coding animations if folks just clip and hide them, plus it will probably reduce server stress due to forcing the animation will kinda act like a mini cooldown.
I'm not sure how I feel about this, I can see both sides of the argument. However ZOS may have made up their minds about it and may be moving forward slowly in locking those animations down, who knows. I don't have an opinion on it one way or the other. I'll play a wait and see approach on this one
In regards to addressing animation canceling, they had originally said they intended to change the appearance of animations without actually changing how things work internally (basically meaning animation canceling would work exactly the same, just that it would look different so animations aren't entirely hidden.Articulemort wrote: »ColoursYouHave wrote: »Articulemort wrote: »lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.
The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.
This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.
So you have to wait for an animation to finish ..... so combat is working exactly as it was intended to perform???
Please forgive me if I fail to see the problem with that.
"Combat Animation Prioritization
We adjusted the combat animation priority so that you will see impacts and effects for each ability and attack fired when played in rapid succession, without it affecting DPS. Blocking mechanics have been excluded from this change based on feedback from the last PTS testing cycle."
Taken directly from the patch notes. The combat animations are in fact not working as intended.
Are you saying that everyone's dps is dropping due to this or just animation cancellers?
Because if it's just animation cancellers, I would say then yes, combat is very much so working as intended.
You can say whatever you want is working as intended, however things are not working the way the developers said they intended things to work. They said DPS would not be affected. DPS is affected. Yet if you weren't so narrow-minded as to cast judgement on something before you even managed to try it, you'd realize that people's complaints go well beyond animation canceling. For one, you can still animation cancel, but sometimes it doesn't work. Usually, when you animation cancel, it actually shows fewer animations than it did before. Sometimes abilities don't work when you aren't animation canceling, too. Sometimes, when you cast a gap closer in doesn't do anything (which is nothing new for anybody who has played a Templar). Other times, you cast a gap closer and it launches you right past the person you targeted, or even across the map. Maybe you should actually try something before going ahead and dismissing the arguments of those who have tried it, because the changes they made suck regardless of whether or not you animation cancel.
There you go, someone who actually explained the issue without making just vague "waaah my dps dropped" comments.
First off, animation canceling needs to go away. It's an exploit, pure and simple. It's the most basic obvious example of an exploit. You are clearly bypassing in game code to increase your dps, which would gain an advantage.
Secondly, I fail to see how the changes on how animations work results in certain or any gap closers not working. To me, that sounds like an unintentional bug that just happened to come with the latest update. This is thread about animations, stay on topic please. Unless you can provide irrefutable proof of course.
Edited by Articulemort on June 7, 2016 4:44AM2 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Articulemort wrote: »ColoursYouHave wrote: »Articulemort wrote: »lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.
The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.
This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.
So you have to wait for an animation to finish ..... so combat is working exactly as it was intended to perform???
Please forgive me if I fail to see the problem with that.
"Combat Animation Prioritization
We adjusted the combat animation priority so that you will see impacts and effects for each ability and attack fired when played in rapid succession, without it affecting DPS. Blocking mechanics have been excluded from this change based on feedback from the last PTS testing cycle."
Taken directly from the patch notes. The combat animations are in fact not working as intended.
Are you saying that everyone's dps is dropping due to this or just animation cancellers?
Because if it's just animation cancellers, I would say then yes, combat is very much so working as intended.
"Animation cancellers" lol
As if that doesn't encompass every player in the game.
If you're not animation cancelling in both PvE and PvP or at least learning how to, then you're bad and you're not playing the game properly.
Animation cancelling is a fundamental component of this game's complex combat system that separates players along a spectrum of mechanical mastery. Putting it bluntly, to disagree is to pander to casuals and carebears and to want combat to be plain and equally easy for all players. Under a system with weakened or no animation cancelling, PvE would be dominated by who can put together the single meta build, resulting in equal dps among all players who do so, and numbers would dominate PvP instead of skill.
That is a simple fact, and that attitude will be the end of this game. Casual players don't keep a game alive. Hardcore ones do.
EDIT: I will add that the value of animation cancelling in PvP is to take advantage of an enemy's mistakes to burst them down and kill them. Healing and defense are very strong in this game. Given a second or two, an enemy who is low can dodge roll around and use a few healing abilities, and then voila, they're full health again. A good player will learn how to pop an animation cancelled burst combo or execute between these defensive maneuvers or inside a cc window in order to achieve the kill. Without animation cancelling, damage becomes low and combat becomes slow and paced. The instances of damage from a light attack, ability cast, and bash (if used) are spaced out within the 1 second global cooldown window, leaving the opponent time to react and roll around or heal. This makes combat too forgiving for players who make mistakes, protecting them from the death they deserved.
Basically, the new animation changes limit the speed with which dexterous and practiced players may execute combos, constraining their skill to a lower skill ceiling level. This is a very frustrating feeling -- to be limited by the game's combat system rather than your own potential -- and will run players off quite quickly. We hardcore players love this game and are extremely loyal to it (despite ZOS pushing us away with every patch...) because its combat system is organic and engaging. With this patch, ZOS has degraded that feeling. This is unacceptable and cannot continue. I have friends and guildies who love this game quitting daily because of this change. That cannot be ignored.
As for PvE, animation cancelling allows players to tighten their damage instances and maneuver between their light attack + ability weaves. This allows PvE players to execute the mechanics of their encounters while maintaining high dps. With the current animation changes, I expect ball group heal tanking to become more prevalent out of necessity since people will be less mobile in fights. Overall, combat will feel sticky and slow just like movement did after the Thieves' Guild patch.
No competitive player can disagree with these points.
And a non-competitive player has no place weighing into debates on combat balance and mechanics in a competitive game. Choose your side.Edited by KenaPKK on June 7, 2016 5:32AM11 -
Outer_Rim✭✭✭Articulemort wrote: »ColoursYouHave wrote: »Articulemort wrote: »lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.
The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.
This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.
So you have to wait for an animation to finish ..... so combat is working exactly as it was intended to perform???
Please forgive me if I fail to see the problem with that.
"Combat Animation Prioritization
We adjusted the combat animation priority so that you will see impacts and effects for each ability and attack fired when played in rapid succession, without it affecting DPS. Blocking mechanics have been excluded from this change based on feedback from the last PTS testing cycle."
Taken directly from the patch notes. The combat animations are in fact not working as intended.
Are you saying that everyone's dps is dropping due to this or just animation cancellers?
Because if it's just animation cancellers, I would say then yes, combat is very much so working as intended.
"Animation cancellers" lol
As if that doesn't encompass every player in the game.
If you're not animation cancelling in both PvE and PvP or at least learning how to, then you're bad and you're not playing the game properly.
Animation cancelling is a fundamental component of this game's complex combat system that separates players along a spectrum of mechanical mastery. Putting it bluntly, to disagree is to pander to casuals and carebears and to want combat to be plain and equally easy for all players. Under a system with weakened or no animation cancelling, PvE would be dominated by who can put together the single meta build, resulting in equal dps among all players who do so, and numbers would dominate PvP instead of skill.
That is a simple fact, and that attitude will be the end of this game. Casual players don't keep a game alive. Hardcore ones do.
EDIT: I will add that the value of animation cancelling in PvP is to take advantage of an enemy's mistakes to burst them down and kill them. Healing and defense are very strong in this game. Given a second or two, an enemy who is low can dodge roll around and use a few healing abilities, and then voila, they're full health again. A good player will learn how to pop an animation cancelled burst combo or execute between these defensive maneuvers or inside a cc window in order to achieve the kill. Without animation cancelling, damage becomes low and combat becomes slow and paced. The instances of damage from a light attack, ability cast, and bash (if used) are spaced out within the 1 second global cooldown window, leaving the opponent time to react and roll around or heal. This makes combat too forgiving for players who make mistakes, protecting them from the death they deserved.
Basically, the new animation changes limit the speed with which dexterous and practiced players may execute combos, constraining their skill to a lower skill ceiling level. This is a very frustrating feeling -- to be limited by the game's combat system rather than your own potential -- and will run players off quite quickly. We hardcore players love this game and are extremely loyal to it (despite ZOS pushing us away with every patch...) because its combat system is organic and engaging. With this patch, ZOS has degraded that feeling. This is unacceptable and cannot continue. I have friends and guildies who love this game quitting daily because of this change. That cannot be ignored.
As for PvE, animation cancelling allows players to tighten their damage instances and maneuver between their light attack + ability weaves. This allows PvE players to execute the mechanics of their encounters while maintaining high dps. With the current animation changes, I expect ball group heal tanking to become more prevalent out of necessity since people will be less mobile in fights. Overall, combat will feel sticky and slow just like movement did after the Thieves' Guild patch.
No competitive player can disagree with these points.
And a non-competitive player has no place weighing into debates on combat balance and mechanics in a competitive game. Choose your side.
Riiiiight. Cause of course some people are not casuals. Honestly i think this game has become very toxic for your health, just by reading some of your previous post, i think you put yourself high and above other players when in all honesty seeing your youtube videos, you seem mediocre at best. For your own health you should consider taking a break from it, or the forums at least. You seem like a very toxic person.4 -
Dyride✭✭✭✭✭Articulemort wrote: »ColoursYouHave wrote: »Articulemort wrote: »lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.
The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.
This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.
So you have to wait for an animation to finish ..... so combat is working exactly as it was intended to perform???
Please forgive me if I fail to see the problem with that.
"Combat Animation Prioritization
We adjusted the combat animation priority so that you will see impacts and effects for each ability and attack fired when played in rapid succession, without it affecting DPS. Blocking mechanics have been excluded from this change based on feedback from the last PTS testing cycle."
Taken directly from the patch notes. The combat animations are in fact not working as intended.
Are you saying that everyone's dps is dropping due to this or just animation cancellers?
Because if it's just animation cancellers, I would say then yes, combat is very much so working as intended.
"Animation cancellers" lol
As if that doesn't encompass every player in the game.
If you're not animation cancelling in both PvE and PvP or at least learning how to, then you're bad and you're not playing the game properly.
Animation cancelling is a fundamental component of this game's complex combat system that separates players along a spectrum of mechanical mastery. Putting it bluntly, to disagree is to pander to casuals and carebears and to want combat to be plain and equally easy for all players. Under a system with weakened or no animation cancelling, PvE would be dominated by who can put together the single meta build, resulting in equal dps among all players who do so, and numbers would dominate PvP instead of skill.
That is a simple fact, and that attitude will be the end of this game. Casual players don't keep a game alive. Hardcore ones do.
EDIT: I will add that the value of animation cancelling in PvP is to take advantage of an enemy's mistakes to burst them down and kill them. Healing and defense are very strong in this game. Given a second or two, an enemy who is low can dodge roll around and use a few healing abilities, and then voila, they're full health again. A good player will learn how to pop an animation cancelled burst combo or execute between these defensive maneuvers or inside a cc window in order to achieve the kill. Without animation cancelling, damage becomes low and combat becomes slow and paced. The instances of damage from a light attack, ability cast, and bash (if used) are spaced out within the 1 second global cooldown window, leaving the opponent time to react and roll around or heal. This makes combat too forgiving for players who make mistakes, protecting them from the death they deserved.
Basically, the new animation changes limit the speed with which dexterous and practiced players may execute combos, constraining their skill to a lower skill ceiling level. This is a very frustrating feeling -- to be limited by the game's combat system rather than your own potential -- and will run players off quite quickly. We hardcore players love this game and are extremely loyal to it (despite ZOS pushing us away with every patch...) because its combat system is organic and engaging. With this patch, ZOS has degraded that feeling. This is unacceptable and cannot continue. I have friends and guildies who love this game quitting daily because of this change. That cannot be ignored.
As for PvE, animation cancelling allows players to tighten their damage instances and maneuver between their light attack + ability weaves. This allows PvE players to execute the mechanics of their encounters while maintaining high dps. With the current animation changes, I expect ball group heal tanking to become more prevalent out of necessity since people will be less mobile in fights. Overall, combat will feel sticky and slow just like movement did after the Thieves' Guild patch.
No competitive player can disagree with these points.
And a non-competitive player has no place weighing into debates on combat balance and mechanics in a competitive game. Choose your side.
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✭Articulemort wrote: »ColoursYouHave wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Remember a few months back Gina said they were working on addressing animation canceling. This is the first baby step in that direction. No sense coding animations if folks just clip and hide them, plus it will probably reduce server stress due to forcing the animation will kinda act like a mini cooldown.
I'm not sure how I feel about this, I can see both sides of the argument. However ZOS may have made up their minds about it and may be moving forward slowly in locking those animations down, who knows. I don't have an opinion on it one way or the other. I'll play a wait and see approach on this one
In regards to addressing animation canceling, they had originally said they intended to change the appearance of animations without actually changing how things work internally (basically meaning animation canceling would work exactly the same, just that it would look different so animations aren't entirely hidden.Articulemort wrote: »ColoursYouHave wrote: »Articulemort wrote: »lol you haven't played DB yet so don't assume anything mate.
The second you experience the new combat, and notice how not only are the animations botched, but often abilities don't even fire off, you'll eat your words.
This isn't just a case of the combat feeling different, we now have to actually wait for animations to finish before we can do anything else, light attacks or abilities. There is no ability queueing system in ESO like there are in other MMOs so now the combat feels wrong.
So you have to wait for an animation to finish ..... so combat is working exactly as it was intended to perform???
Please forgive me if I fail to see the problem with that.
"Combat Animation Prioritization
We adjusted the combat animation priority so that you will see impacts and effects for each ability and attack fired when played in rapid succession, without it affecting DPS. Blocking mechanics have been excluded from this change based on feedback from the last PTS testing cycle."
Taken directly from the patch notes. The combat animations are in fact not working as intended.
Are you saying that everyone's dps is dropping due to this or just animation cancellers?
Because if it's just animation cancellers, I would say then yes, combat is very much so working as intended.
You can say whatever you want is working as intended, however things are not working the way the developers said they intended things to work. They said DPS would not be affected. DPS is affected. Yet if you weren't so narrow-minded as to cast judgement on something before you even managed to try it, you'd realize that people's complaints go well beyond animation canceling. For one, you can still animation cancel, but sometimes it doesn't work. Usually, when you animation cancel, it actually shows fewer animations than it did before. Sometimes abilities don't work when you aren't animation canceling, too. Sometimes, when you cast a gap closer in doesn't do anything (which is nothing new for anybody who has played a Templar). Other times, you cast a gap closer and it launches you right past the person you targeted, or even across the map. Maybe you should actually try something before going ahead and dismissing the arguments of those who have tried it, because the changes they made suck regardless of whether or not you animation cancel.
There you go, someone who actually explained the issue without making just vague "waaah my dps dropped" comments.
First off, animation canceling needs to go away. It's an exploit, pure and simple. It's the most basic obvious example of an exploit. You are clearly bypassing in game code to increase your dps, which would gain an advantage.
Secondly, I fail to see how the changes on how animations work results in certain or any gap closers not working. To me, that sounds like an unintentional bug that just happened to come with the latest update. This is thread about animations, stay on topic please. Unless you can provide irrefutable proof of course.
Had you read the thread, you'd have seen that nearly every point I made had already been mentioned. Also, ZOS has already made a statement that animation cancelling is not an exploit. There is a detailed post by Gina from the TG PTS explaining how they plan on changing the visual aspect of the animations without changing how animation cancelling works internally.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »In the Thieves Guild update, we wanted to make it more clear which attacks players are using, while preserving the responsiveness and feel of the combat system. So, we started with a simple premise: if an ability is successful, you should be able to see it impact (or launch, in the case of projectiles). Now, every successful attack will display until the moment of impact/launch. Instead of canceling the impact/launch of the first ability, we now obscure the first few milliseconds of the interrupting ability.
The above examples show a Heavy Attack interrupted with an instant ability. The green part is what you see, and the red part is what is not shown. In the first example, you can see the way it is currently on the Live megaservers and has been since launch. The Heavy Attack can be interrupted at almost any time during the wind-up. At the time it is interrupted, the strike happens, but it is invisible because it is obscured by the beginning of the interrupting ability. The second example shows our current method of handling interruptions. Instead of obscuring the strike/launch, we show it up until that point of impact/firing, opting to instead obscure the (less important) first few frames of the interrupting ability.
We believe this visual adjustment meets the criteria we set when we were designing this improvement:- A successfully-fired ability should not be visually obscured; if an attack lands or an ability is launched, we should show it happening
- DPS and other playstyles should not be adversely affected
- The game’s “feel” should not change
One side effect of this change is that there are shorter (or in some cases, no) blend times to smooth the transitions depending on exactly when you choose to fire an interrupting ability. When you’re dealing in milliseconds and giving players that kind of freedom , you sometimes have to forego perfectly smooth transitions in order to make sure the player is receiving proper feedback and telegraphing to other players exactly what they are choosing to do. Having said that, if you find particularly egregious combinations (ability X interrupted with ability Y), please let us know; there may be some things we can do to help smooth them out.
As always, we welcome your feedback. In fact, it will be instrumental in informing us how to proceed with this improvement. Our internal testing has proven to be very successful, but there are so many different playstyles, builds and rotations, we want to make sure we try to implement this in a way that feels good in all cases and doesn’t need to be taught through a tutorial; exactly what you see is what is happening.
That seems like an awful lot of effort for them to specifically make sure an "exploit" works the same way it always had...
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